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Post by bale-droed on Sept 22, 2020 8:17:27 GMT
It's not everyone, just Liverpool On the basis of what? Allen didn't work out, Woodburn has squandered his opportunities after 2 disappointing loan moves and Wilson has some of the world's greatest wingers in front of him. Liverpool certainly had no issues with Joey or Rush. There was that Lloyd Jones lad who played for them and our U19's, lots of people thought he was going to be the dogs bollocks but we decided he was crap after he switched to England and he got what he deserved when Liverpool released him. He’s at Luton now. I don’t want him anywhere near the squad but is he actually still eligible?
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Post by robin1864 on Sept 22, 2020 8:25:02 GMT
On the basis of what? Allen didn't work out, Woodburn has squandered his opportunities after 2 disappointing loan moves and Wilson has some of the world's greatest wingers in front of him. Liverpool certainly had no issues with Joey or Rush. There was that Lloyd Jones lad who played for them and our U19's, lots of people thought he was going to be the dogs bollocks but we decided he was crap after he switched to England and he got what he deserved when Liverpool released him. He’s at Luton now. I don’t want him anywhere near the squad but is he actually still eligible? He's an option in defence, big presence, comfortable ball-playing centre back, decent passing range etc. 😉 I think he's still eligible but he's a fucking hoofballer.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Sept 22, 2020 8:58:29 GMT
On the basis of what? Allen didn't work out, Woodburn has squandered his opportunities after 2 disappointing loan moves and Wilson has some of the world's greatest wingers in front of him. Liverpool certainly had no issues with Joey or Rush. There was that Lloyd Jones lad who played for them and our U19's, lots of people thought he was going to be the dogs bollocks but we decided he was crap after he switched to England and he got what he deserved when Liverpool released him. He’s at Luton now. I don’t want him anywhere near the squad but is he actually still eligible? I’d imagine he’s used his one time switch, as has his mate Bond- so I wouldn’t think so, no.
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Post by robin1864 on Sept 22, 2020 9:00:05 GMT
He’s at Luton now. I don’t want him anywhere near the squad but is he actually still eligible? I’d imagine he’s used his one time switch, as has his mate Bond- so I wouldn’t think so, no. Uncapped as a senior, so it's very possible he could do a Brooks.
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Sept 22, 2020 9:02:13 GMT
On the basis of what? Allen didn't work out, Woodburn has squandered his opportunities after 2 disappointing loan moves and Wilson has some of the world's greatest wingers in front of him. Liverpool certainly had no issues with Joey or Rush. There was that Lloyd Jones lad who played for them and our U19's, lots of people thought he was going to be the dogs bollocks but we decided he was crap after he switched to England and he got what he deserved when Liverpool released him. He’s at Luton now. I don’t want him anywhere near the squad but is he actually still eligible? His contract expired this summer, so he's now without a club. Probably due a move to a League 2 side.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Sept 22, 2020 10:05:30 GMT
I’d imagine he’s used his one time switch, as has his mate Bond- so I wouldn’t think so, no. Uncapped as a senior, so it's very possible he could do a Brooks. It depends on whether they’ve played competitive games at youth level, for their first country I think. In Lloyd Jones’ case he may actually technically be allowed to do a Brooks, as he never played a youth qualifier for us (per transfermarkt). If Lloyd Jones has played a qualifier for our u17s, then he’s ineligible for Cymru. For example, Terry Taylor was tied to us as soon as his paperwork went through, as he had played a qualifier for Scotland u17s, like Grealish was tied to England since he made his decision in 2015, similar to our friend Jonathan Bond. Whereas, by the looks of things Lloyd Jones could switch back to us (if he hasn’t played a qualifier). Bit like how Bamford can still play for Ireland after defecting from Ireland’s u18 team to the English youth set-up a while back. Had Neco switched to the English youth set-up, he’d have been ineligible for the Cymru senior team. All a bit intricate. Senior caps don’t have to come into it in these cases.
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Post by iot on Sept 22, 2020 12:44:23 GMT
Uncapped as a senior, so it's very possible he could do a Brooks. It depends on whether they’ve played competitive games at youth level, for their first country I think. In Lloyd Jones’ case he may actually technically be allowed to do a Brooks, as he never played a youth qualifier for us (per transfermarkt). If Lloyd Jones has played a qualifier for our u17s, then he’s ineligible for Cymru. For example, Terry Taylor was tied to us as soon as his paperwork went through, as he had played a qualifier for Scotland u17s, like Grealish was tied to England since he made his decision in 2015, similar to our friend Jonathan Bond. Whereas, by the looks of things Lloyd Jones could switch back to us (if he hasn’t played a qualifier). Bit like how Bamford can still play for Ireland after defecting from Ireland’s u18 team to the English youth set-up a while back. Had Neco switched to the English youth set-up, he’d have been ineligible for the Cymru senior team. All a bit intricate. Senior caps don’t have to come into it in these cases. I've never come across that before. So how did ampadu go from the welsh youth setup, to the english one, and back to wales? Are you saying that if ampadu had been capped in a competitive game in both those setups, he wouldn't be allowed to play for us now?
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Post by quetzal on Sept 22, 2020 13:05:30 GMT
www.google.com/amp/s/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/new-fifa-ruling-gives-more-flexibility-on-switching/3rftk5bz4qh71pq9uvtmdjc5mThe new rules outlined at the 70th FIFA Congress are now applicable if the player: Was fielded in a match in official competition at “A” international level in any kind of football for their current association At the time of being fielded for their first match in an official competition (at any level) in any kind of football for his current association, they held the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent At the time of being fielded for their last match in an official competition in any kind of football for their current association, they had not turned 21 years old Was fielded in no more than three matches at “A” international level in any kind of football for their current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition At least three years have passed since being fielded for their last match at “A” international level in any kind of football for their current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition Has never participated in any kind of football at “A” international level in the final tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a final tournament of a confederation competition
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Post by robin1864 on Sept 22, 2020 13:06:20 GMT
I thought it was entirely dependent on senior competitive caps. You can't tell me that Grealish played a dozen games for Ireland youth and not a single one of them was competitive.
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Post by dai on Sept 22, 2020 13:08:26 GMT
Uncapped as a senior, so it's very possible he could do a Brooks. It depends on whether they’ve played competitive games at youth level, for their first country I think. In Lloyd Jones’ case he may actually technically be allowed to do a Brooks, as he never played a youth qualifier for us (per transfermarkt). If Lloyd Jones has played a qualifier for our u17s, then he’s ineligible for Cymru. For example, Terry Taylor was tied to us as soon as his paperwork went through, as he had played a qualifier for Scotland u17s, like Grealish was tied to England since he made his decision in 2015, similar to our friend Jonathan Bond. Whereas, by the looks of things Lloyd Jones could switch back to us (if he hasn’t played a qualifier). Bit like how Bamford can still play for Ireland after defecting from Ireland’s u18 team to the English youth set-up a while back. Had Neco switched to the English youth set-up, he’d have been ineligible for the Cymru senior team. All a bit intricate. Senior caps don’t have to come into it in these cases. Are you sure this is correct?? I don't think it is. I have always been under the impression that players can switch allegiances up until they receive a senior competitive cap - that's when they become 'cap-tied'. I've never heard of any rules that tie a player when playing at competitive youth level.
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Post by TheWelshWay on Sept 22, 2020 13:17:10 GMT
Potentially easier to tie players to a Nation - 4 friendlies rather than 1 qualifer.
Not that we want to set out to do that as I like how we're approaching dual qualifed players with a 'try us and the others and see who you prefer' approach.
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Post by dai on Sept 22, 2020 13:21:22 GMT
So, what English, Scottish and Irish players can we nick now?
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Post by gimli on Sept 22, 2020 14:02:28 GMT
I think you're allowed one "switch". So you can switch after playing a competitive youth match, but once you've made that switch you can't switch back. So yes, Grealish played competitive youth matches for Ireland, but once he switched to England he was no longer eligible for Ireland and couldn't switch back, even before he got his senior competitive cap for England.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 14:11:20 GMT
To clear up a few things - cos I had difficulty understanding it at first
The new rules only apply to players under the age of 21 - so if you’re 22 and you’re capped once competitively you’re tied down
If you’re under 21, one qualifying game doesn’t tie you down anymore. For example, under these new rules Neco Williams is still technically eligible for England, until he reaches 4 caps then he’s tied down. So he’d only need to play the friendly against England & the competitive game against Ireland then he’s tied down
One cap at a tournament does still tie you down
There needs to be a 3 year gap between you playing for the first country & being eligible to play for the second country. So to use the example in the article, Munir of Barcelona plays a competitive qualifier for Spain, and then decides he wants to represent Morocco instead. Under new rules he’d have to wait 3 years, and then Morocco can call him up
Benefits of these new rules; it’s easier for young players who are only capped once to go and play for other countries (e.g Ben Cabango could decide to go and play for Angola when he turns 23 if we don’t play him another 3 times). Young players who aren’t decided over who they wish to represent don’t have to avoid call ups or competitive fixtures - they can go and play for the national team they prefer at the time, with the option to change their mind further down the road
Hope this helps if anyone is unsure
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 14:15:28 GMT
No that’s wrong - youth level appearances have absolutely no bearing on eligibility
Prior to today (the rules have changed) you’re tied down if you’d had a senior cap in a competitive international - simple as. Therefore, Lloyd Jones is still eligible. However, I can’t see him ever turning out for us again
*Edit. Okay I’ve just read up on this and I didn’t know this. Apparently if you’ve played a tournament at youth level (Euros/WC) you can only switch once. So Ampadu would have been allowed to switch back to England at senior level after playing for our youth because he did not play for us in a youth tournament. I don’t know what this means for Jones - I assume he didn’t play for England at a youth tournament?
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Sept 22, 2020 14:24:42 GMT
It depends on whether they’ve played competitive games at youth level, for their first country I think. In Lloyd Jones’ case he may actually technically be allowed to do a Brooks, as he never played a youth qualifier for us (per transfermarkt). If Lloyd Jones has played a qualifier for our u17s, then he’s ineligible for Cymru. For example, Terry Taylor was tied to us as soon as his paperwork went through, as he had played a qualifier for Scotland u17s, like Grealish was tied to England since he made his decision in 2015, similar to our friend Jonathan Bond. Whereas, by the looks of things Lloyd Jones could switch back to us (if he hasn’t played a qualifier). Bit like how Bamford can still play for Ireland after defecting from Ireland’s u18 team to the English youth set-up a while back. Had Neco switched to the English youth set-up, he’d have been ineligible for the Cymru senior team. All a bit intricate. Senior caps don’t have to come into it in these cases. I've never come across that before. So how did ampadu go from the welsh youth setup, to the english one, and back to wales? Are you saying that if ampadu had been capped in a competitive game in both those setups, he wouldn't be allowed to play for us now? Ampadu’s played exclusively for us since u16+. Before u17s you can play for however many countries you’re qualified for without repercussions. Depends on the order in which Ampadu would have played. If he played an u17s qualifier for us then switched to England, then he wouldn’t be able to play for us at senior level. If he played a qualifier for England then Cymru then he would be tied to us. I may have made a dog’s dinner of the explanation though. Essentially as the poster said above, it’s a onetime switch active from u17s onwards! Looking at Dragon Soccer however, looks like eligiblility has changed anyway- so the above may be outdated as of today! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54211943
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Post by dai on Sept 22, 2020 14:29:39 GMT
I think you're allowed one "switch". So you can switch after playing a competitive youth match, but once you've made that switch you can't switch back. So yes, Grealish played competitive youth matches for Ireland, but once he switched to England he was no longer eligible for Ireland and couldn't switch back, even before he got his senior competitive cap for England. I've still never heard of that! Any links to official rules?
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Post by pendragon on Sept 22, 2020 16:39:14 GMT
For example, under these new rules Neco Williams is still technically eligible for England, until he reaches 4 caps then he’s tied down. So he’d only need to play the friendly against England & the competitive game against Ireland then he’s tied down Do these rules apply retrospectively? If you're under 21 and you played your first senior competitive cap before the new rules were introduced, which rules are you governed by - the old ones or the new ones?
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 16:40:33 GMT
For example, under these new rules Neco Williams is still technically eligible for England, until he reaches 4 caps then he’s tied down. So he’d only need to play the friendly against England & the competitive game against Ireland then he’s tied down Do these rules apply retrospectively? If you're under 21 and you played your first senior competitive cap before the new rules were introduced, which rules apply in this instance - the old ones or the new ones? Yes they apply retrospectively. The example they gave about Munir mentioned that he is now free to play for Morocco if he chooses
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Post by pendragon on Sept 22, 2020 16:47:11 GMT
Do these rules apply retrospectively? If you're under 21 and you played your first senior competitive cap before the new rules were introduced, which rules apply in this instance - the old ones or the new ones? Yes they apply retrospectively. The example they gave about Munir mentioned that he is now free to play for Morocco if he chooses Yes, I've just read the article 👍 But they still need to wait three years before making the switch, is that right?
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 16:54:02 GMT
Yes they apply retrospectively. The example they gave about Munir mentioned that he is now free to play for Morocco if he chooses Yes, I've just read the article 👍 But they still need to wait three years before making the switch, is that right? Yeah three year wait. So in that particular case, Munir was capped by Spain in 2014 so under these new rules he'd have been eligible after 2017, but of course he only now becomes eligible for them with the rule change (I'm sure Osian will be on the case!)
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Sept 22, 2020 17:07:47 GMT
Yes, I've just read the article 👍 But they still need to wait three years before making the switch, is that right? Yeah three year wait. So in that particular case, Munir was capped by Spain in 2014 so under these new rules he'd have been eligible after 2017, but of course he only now becomes eligible for them with the rule change (I'm sure Osian will be on the case!) Under these new rules, would a 22 year old capped in one friendly game be tied to that country?
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Post by wirralwelsh on Sept 22, 2020 17:26:45 GMT
These eligibility rules just getting more complicated every time they mess around with them. Clearly a cynical attempt by China to get a bunch of Brazilians on board as they cannot produce their own players. Couple of more straightforward points:- friendly internationals at any level, youth or senior don't count for anything. Whether that's Ampadu at under-16 level or Williams if she plays the Senior match against England I believe. Also once you've formally switched nations having played a competitive underage cap and then competitive cap for a new country (e.g Lloyd Jones) can't switch back. Not too sure it would affect us in any meaningful way in the short term though. Potentially Neco or Matondo could switch to England under the laws.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 18:06:50 GMT
Yeah three year wait. So in that particular case, Munir was capped by Spain in 2014 so under these new rules he'd have been eligible after 2017, but of course he only now becomes eligible for them with the rule change (I'm sure Osian will be on the case!) Under these new rules, would a 22 year old capped in one friendly game be tied to that country? It doesn't actually state anything about that, so I'd have to assume the rules just haven't changed. So I'm pretty sure a 22 could still play a friendly and not be tied, only to be tied after they play a competitive game
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 18:16:55 GMT
These eligibility rules just getting more complicated every time they mess around with them. Clearly a cynical attempt by China to get a bunch of Brazilians on board as they cannot produce their own players.Couple of more straightforward points:- friendly internationals at any level, youth or senior don't count for anything. Whether that's Ampadu at under-16 level or Williams if she plays the Senior match against England I believe. Also once you've formally switched nations having played a competitive underage cap and then competitive cap for a new country (e.g Lloyd Jones) can't switch back. Not too sure it would affect us in any meaningful way in the short term though. Potentially Neco or Matondo could switch to England under the laws. 1) This new rule won't help China get any players like that, nor any other country. Unless there are a bunch of Brazilian-Chinese qualified players that have been capped by Brazil in one off competitive fixtures & are currently unable to switch to China 2) To clarify, that's the old rule but the new rule today means senior friendlies count towards eligibility
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Post by pendragon on Sept 22, 2020 18:33:25 GMT
Also once you've formally switched nations having played a competitive underage cap and then competitive cap for a new country (e.g Lloyd Jones) can't switch back. Not too sure it would affect us in any meaningful way in the short term though. Potentially Neco or Matondo could switch to England under the laws. I assume that with Neco or Rabbi's example, they would be tied after playing two more games but in the event that they decided to switch, I assume they'd have to wait three years for the other nation to call them up. The only benefit I see here is that this new rule might remove the pressure a young player might feel to perform in a competitive fixture, when he/ she might not be truly sure of which country they'd like to commit to. The three year interval period gives them plenty of time to contemplate which country they wish to represent.
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Post by wirralwelsh on Sept 22, 2020 19:52:19 GMT
These eligibility rules just getting more complicated every time they mess around with them. Clearly a cynical attempt by China to get a bunch of Brazilians on board as they cannot produce their own players.. 1) This new rule won't help China get any players like that, nor any other country. Unless there are a bunch of Brazilian-Chinese qualified players that have been capped by Brazil in one off competitive fixtures & are currently unable to switch to China 2) To clarify, that's the old rule but the new rule today means senior friendlies count towards eligibility Not sure about point two, that may be the case, but the main immediate effect of the ruling is that a player can now transfer from one nation to another (providing having had no more than three senior caps at 21) regardless whether they held their new nationality at the time of the underage or full caps they got for their original country. That means all sorts of Brazilian youth players will now be able to qualify for China through residency alone despite having represented Brazil at junior levels. With the money in the Chinese league this will give them a massive advantage over most other Asian nations and potentially enable them to qualify for future world cups easily enough simply by picking half a dozen Brazilians or other nationalities who just moved there for the pay cheque. Interestingly the previous edition of the residency rules was devised specifically to prevent Qatar picking up Brazilians this way so China must have a fair bit bigger clout in FIFA circles.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 20:08:59 GMT
1) This new rule won't help China get any players like that, nor any other country. Unless there are a bunch of Brazilian-Chinese qualified players that have been capped by Brazil in one off competitive fixtures & are currently unable to switch to China 2) To clarify, that's the old rule but the new rule today means senior friendlies count towards eligibility Not sure about point two, that may be the case, but the main immediate effect of the ruling is that a player can now transfer from one nation to another (providing having had no more than three senior caps at 21) regardless whether they held their new nationality at the time of the underage or full caps they got for their original country. That means all sorts of Brazilian youth players will now be able to qualify for China through residency alone despite having represented Brazil at junior levels. With the money in the Chinese league this will give them a massive advantage over most other Asian nations and potentially enable them to qualify for future world cups easily enough simply by picking half a dozen Brazilians or other nationalities who just moved there for the pay cheque. Interestingly the previous edition of the residency rules was devised specifically to prevent Qatar picking up Brazilians this way so China must have a fair bit bigger clout in FIFA circles. It says this though: "At the time of being fielded for their first match in an official competition (at any level) in any kind of football for his current association, they held the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent" - this means China can't do what you're saying they can do. At least no more than they could before these rule changes "Prior to the adjusted rules, a player could only switch nationalities if they had only played in friendlies and not a single minute of any competitive fixture, which included qualifiers and international tournaments. Those rules have now been relaxed, allowing a player to change nationality as long as they have only featured in three international fixtures, including qualifiers" - sounds to me like this means friendlies & qualifiers are included in the 3 games
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Post by wirralwelsh on Sept 22, 2020 20:25:06 GMT
There's a new section verse 9.b) with an additional addendum citing that you can switch now if you didn't possess the second nationality at the time of the previous caps, as long as had not turned 21. That's the one I was alluding to.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 22, 2020 20:37:16 GMT
There's a new section verse 9.b) with an additional addendum citing that you can switch now if you didn't possess the second nationality at the time of the previous caps, as long as had not turned 21. That's the one I was alluding to. Do you have a link to where you've read that? I can't find a full document only the original article
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