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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 8, 2019 15:46:17 GMT
Interesting from Tosh: www.football-italia.net/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.football-italia.net%2F132896%2Ftoshack-my-advice-ramsey#article/footballitalia-132896“I don’t know if Aaron is disciplined enough to play in front of the defence. I am also not sure he scores enough to play close to the strikers. “He might do better in a three-man midfield, where he has the possibility to push forward, or perhaps in a three supporting the centre-forward. In modern football you do need to be versatile and he is a modern player.” “He has a unique opportunity to play with Cristiano Ronaldo, to grow, to improve, and that’s a lucky break for a lad who hasn’t had much luck,” “It’s crucial that Aaron doesn’t make the same mistake that Bale did at Madrid. He needs to learn the local language straight away. That might also be why it’s best he join Juve in the summer and not in January." Doesn't mince words, does he?! I think Tosh is being a bit harsh on Bale. As a lad he skipped schooling to go and play for Southampton, which is a gamble that more than payed off for him. Bearing this in mind, he was never going to take like a duck to water at learning a new language. We all have our weaknesses after all. From what I've seen he has tried his best to learn Spanish, and I'm sure he can understand most of what his team mates say. Speaking it in front of the press is something else altogether though. I agree with the fact that Ramsey should try to learn Italian, and I think the fact that he is already bilingual will stand him in better stead than Bale. I just think it's unfair to say Bale hasn't given it a go.
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Post by zenith on Jan 9, 2019 23:29:51 GMT
Sky reporting that move to Juventus is confirmed for June.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 10, 2019 0:55:08 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Jan 10, 2019 7:49:52 GMT
Ramsey off to potential champions league winners.
Stoke City sack manager lying 14th in championship
I guess some here still think Allen is a better player
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Post by kingstonred on Jan 10, 2019 9:17:08 GMT
So happy for Rambo - what a move! Moving to one of the best teams in Europe! Juve have won the league 7 years in a row, and will be challenging for the Champions League - I just hope they can do a deal where he can move now, rather than the summer!
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Post by superunknown on Jan 10, 2019 9:48:32 GMT
Just hope he gets game time. A lot of competition in that midfield. Khedira, Can, Bentancur, Matuidi, Pjanic. Gonna need to be at the top of his game to be a regular.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 10, 2019 13:22:18 GMT
As an Arsenal fan, I've reluctantly come to terms with his eventual departure 😓
But what a coup for us Wales fans, two players in non-domestic CL teams!
Agree with others when I say that I hope he gets game time. He'll need to prove his worth there.
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Post by insertname on Jan 10, 2019 13:34:07 GMT
Ramsey off to potential champions league winners. Stoke City sack manager lying 14th in championship I guess some here still think Allen is a better player His career has nose dived spectacularly and 'better player' is obviously debatable but Allen is still more important for Wales if only through consistency. ROI made it the sole focus of their game plan to get Allen off the pitch, they weren't fussed about Ramsey and it was the right call.
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 10, 2019 14:41:54 GMT
Just hope he gets game time. A lot of competition in that midfield. Khedira, Can, Bentancur, Matuidi, Pjanic. Gonna need to be at the top of his game to be a regular. The squad will rotate no doubt but I'll stick my neck out and say he'll be ahead of the first three so in the starting XI with another two out of that list.
Tasty.
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Post by iot on Jan 10, 2019 16:05:16 GMT
I'll just leave this here for those who think Ramsey's nothing more than an "above average", Bournemouth/Everton type player: "The Juventus manager, Max Allegri, and the director Fabio Paratici are huge admirers of Ramsey, who is likely to be given a place in the Juventus starting XI, most likely playing with Miralem Pjanic and Blaise Matuidi in a three-man midfield. He is likely to replace one of Emre Can, Rodrigo Bentancur and Sami Khedira, with the latter possibly leaving the club in the summer." www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/09/aaron-ramsey-arsenal-juventus-five-year-deal-36m?CMP=share_btn_twBut you know best I guess...
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jan 10, 2019 16:21:54 GMT
I'll just leave this here for those who think Ramsey's nothing more than an "above average", Bournemouth/Everton type player: "The Juventus manager, Max Allegri, and the director Fabio Paratici are huge admirers of Ramsey, who is likely to be given a place in the Juventus starting XI, most likely playing with Miralem Pjanic and Blaise Matuidi in a three-man midfield. He is likely to replace one of Emre Can, Rodrigo Bentancur and Sami Khedira, with the latter possibly leaving the club in the summer." www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/09/aaron-ramsey-arsenal-juventus-five-year-deal-36m?CMP=share_btn_twBut you know best I guess... I'm adamant that a new challenge for him will see him go up a level.(or at least bring him back to where he was) A fight for a starting place at a club like Juve in a new league will take him out if his comfort zone. Nothing anti Arsenal- just time to move on.
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Post by alarch on Jan 10, 2019 19:29:49 GMT
...nose dived spectacularly... I mean, seriously...
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Post by gwernybwch on Jan 10, 2019 19:30:43 GMT
Your forgetting Storm knows more about football than Wenger and all the manager's who want to sign him. I for one are glad that that insertname is back posting again. You might not always agree with what his saying, but at least he is putting forward a well constructed argument about Welsh football (as apposed to comments on the % of Welsh speakers in South Pembrokeshire or some other sh*t)
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Post by alarch on Jan 10, 2019 19:32:40 GMT
Ramsey off to potential champions league winners. Stoke City sack manager lying 14th in championship I guess some here still think Allen is a better player Still at it, knocking down straw soldiers. I'm not sure that anyone on here has said that Allen is a better player than Ramsey - but I'm not alone in thinking he's a more influential for Wales than Ramsey - if only because without Allen we don't have the platform to allow Ramsey and Bale to do their stuff. This might change in the future with the emergence of Ampadu and Smith - but right now we are impacted more by Allen's absence than that of any other player.
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Post by manulike on Jan 10, 2019 22:05:17 GMT
Not that I believe for a single minute that my Captain is leaving London anytime soon, but I am not sure what Ben and Harry will make of this ;-)
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 10, 2019 22:34:45 GMT
Talking about Ramsey on the Debate, Curtis Davies saying he doesn't know if Ramsey was released (He hasn't been!) because they couldn't agree a deal or if its because he wasn't good enough. Yeah that's why fucking Juventus have picked him up, because he wasn't good enough for Arsenal
A bit of basic research would suffice, mate, its not like its been in the press for months
Strachan saying its a brilliant deal that Ramsey deserves as he's a great player and has been great for Arsenal
Davies has now said that Ramsey isn't getting a spot in the Arsenal team due to Guendouzi, the mind boggles...
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Post by manulike on Jan 10, 2019 22:39:26 GMT
Talking about Ramsey on the Debate, Curtis Davies saying he doesn't know if Ramsey was released (He hasn't been!) because they couldn't agree a deal or if its because he wasn't good enough. Yeah that's why fucking Juventus have picked him up, because he wasn't good enough for Arsenal A bit of basic research would suffice, mate, its not like its been in the press for months Strachan saying its a brilliant deal that Ramsey deserves as he's a great player and has been great for Arsenal Pretty sure Ronaldo will be licking his lips and very happy to see our Rambo join him. He knows that Aaron can give him an extra 12-15 assists per season. Which will be his only chance of getting anywhere near another Ballon d'Or
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Post by alarch on Jan 10, 2019 22:41:05 GMT
This is an excellent article on Ramsey with some interesting analysis of why he's fallen out of favour with Emery, and the sort of roles that would bring out the best in Ramsey for club and country: www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/how-arsenals-aaron-ramsey-fit-15657546This quote is of particular interest "In terms of the tools that Ramsey would provide, he's very much a midfield runner who's best utilised when instructed to make penetrative central runs. If Juventus maintain their crossing approach, Ramsey's tendency to arrive in the box at the last minute and get on the end of chances will be effective, with Ronaldo then able to occupy a different area of the box such as the near or far post." For Ronaldo read Bale for Wales.
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Post by insertname on Jan 10, 2019 22:42:38 GMT
Not that I believe for a single minute that my Captain is leaving London anytime soon, but I am not sure what Ben and Harry will make of this ;-) Sounds like his agent is shopping him about, can't blame him I suppose although he runs the risk of alienating Juventus judging by the article on the BBC. The general gist of it seems to be that he is set to become the most well paid British player in history!!! Gareth Bale scores overhead kicks to win Champions League finals and he is going to be earning less than a guy who couldn't land a glove on the Republic of Ireland. As a wise man once said: "Football eh, bloody hell"
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Post by alarch on Jan 10, 2019 22:45:51 GMT
You're confusing salary with the overall package. Bale will still be earning far more annually than Ramsey - it's just that with a 5 year deal would earn more in total if Bale weren't to secure a new contract - which obviously he will.
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Post by insertname on Jan 10, 2019 22:48:07 GMT
Talking about Ramsey on the Debate, Curtis Davies saying he doesn't know if Ramsey was released (He hasn't been!) because they couldn't agree a deal or if its because he wasn't good enough. Yeah that's why fucking Juventus have picked him up, because he wasn't good enough for Arsenal A bit of basic research would suffice, mate, its not like its been in the press for months Strachan saying its a brilliant deal that Ramsey deserves as he's a great player and has been great for Arsenal Davies has now said that Ramsey isn't getting a spot in the Arsenal team due to Guendouzi, the mind boggles... Surprising as it might sound some pundits don't rate him so will speak from an angle that suits their argument. Also he isn't entirely wide of the mark- Arsenal CHOSE to withdraw his contract offer because they realise they made a mistake paying Ozil 350k a week and didn't want to repeat it. So it may be that Arsenal would like to keep him in a perfect world, but the reality is that they felt they had good reasons not to. Maybe Ramsey wouldn't have signed anyway? But the up the upshot is that Arsenal have exercised some control over the matter by withdrawing the offer first. There is also an article on the BBC site saying that initially Emery was keen to build the team round Ramsey but Ramsey's preferred role doesn't jibe with how Emery likes to play so he is happy for Ramsey to leave.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 10, 2019 22:56:14 GMT
Talking about Ramsey on the Debate, Curtis Davies saying he doesn't know if Ramsey was released (He hasn't been!) because they couldn't agree a deal or if its because he wasn't good enough. Yeah that's why fucking Juventus have picked him up, because he wasn't good enough for Arsenal A bit of basic research would suffice, mate, its not like its been in the press for months Strachan saying its a brilliant deal that Ramsey deserves as he's a great player and has been great for Arsenal Davies has now said that Ramsey isn't getting a spot in the Arsenal team due to Guendouzi, the mind boggles... Surprising as it might sound some pundits don't rate him so will speak from an angle that suits their argument. Also he isn't entirely wide of the mark- Arsenal CHOSE to withdraw his contract offer because they realise they made a mistake paying Ozil 350k a week and didn't want to repeat it. So it may be that Arsenal would like to keep him in a perfect world, but the reality is that they felt they had good reasons not to. Maybe Ramsey wouldn't have signed anyway? But the up the upshot is that Arsenal have exercised some control over the matter by withdrawing the offer first. There is also an article on the BBC site saying that initially Emery was keen to build the team round Ramsey but Ramsey's preferred role doesn't jibe with how Emery likes to play so he is happy for Ramsey to leave. There's not rating him and then there's talking nonsense. Guendouzi isn't keeping Ramsey out of the team seeing as he is a more defensive midfielder, which Ramsey definitely isn't He also said Ramsey was released. That just isn't true
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Post by insertname on Jan 10, 2019 23:19:18 GMT
Surprising as it might sound some pundits don't rate him so will speak from an angle that suits their argument. Also he isn't entirely wide of the mark- Arsenal CHOSE to withdraw his contract offer because they realise they made a mistake paying Ozil 350k a week and didn't want to repeat it. So it may be that Arsenal would like to keep him in a perfect world, but the reality is that they felt they had good reasons not to. Maybe Ramsey wouldn't have signed anyway? But the up the upshot is that Arsenal have exercised some control over the matter by withdrawing the offer first. There is also an article on the BBC site saying that initially Emery was keen to build the team round Ramsey but Ramsey's preferred role doesn't jibe with how Emery likes to play so he is happy for Ramsey to leave. There's not rating him and then there's talking nonsense. Guendouzi isn't keeping Ramsey out of the team seeing as he is a more defensive midfielder, which Ramsey definitely isn't He also said Ramsey was released. That just isn't true 'Withdrawn contract offer' is a close relative of 'being released'. It's not clear whether Ramsey would have signed, but by withdrawing the offer Arsenal have made it clear his services are no longer required and come the end of his contract Ramsey has to move on. If they wanted to keep him badly enough the offer would still be on the table...but they don't and it's not.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 10, 2019 23:38:58 GMT
There's not rating him and then there's talking nonsense. Guendouzi isn't keeping Ramsey out of the team seeing as he is a more defensive midfielder, which Ramsey definitely isn't He also said Ramsey was released. That just isn't true 'Withdrawn contract offer' is a close relative of 'being released'. It's not clear whether Ramsey would have signed, but by withdrawing the offer Arsenal have made it clear his services are no longer required and come the end of his contract Ramsey has to move on. If they wanted to keep him badly enough the offer would still be on the table...but they don't and it's not. It was withdrawn when it became clear Ramsey wouldn't accept the offer and was pursuing other options
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Post by insertname on Jan 11, 2019 0:07:58 GMT
'Withdrawn contract offer' is a close relative of 'being released'. It's not clear whether Ramsey would have signed, but by withdrawing the offer Arsenal have made it clear his services are no longer required and come the end of his contract Ramsey has to move on. If they wanted to keep him badly enough the offer would still be on the table...but they don't and it's not. It was withdrawn when it became clear Ramsey wouldn't accept the offer and was pursuing other options Well, that's your interpretation. To quote Raphael Honigstein one of the European football experts from 5 Live: "But...280k for five years is not a small amount. It's absolutely massive. Easy to see why Arsenal walked away." Everything I've read suggests that Arsenal put themselves in a bind with Ozil's contract and that affected future contract dealings. You are only one I've seen mentioning it being a reaction to Ramsey walking away-- I'm assuming you have good inside info? To be honest, it makes sense that Arsenal would withdraw it, according to that Marcotti guy Ramsey's wage demands are in line with the top players in the PL: Pogba, Ozil, Sanchez, KDB....would you have Ramsey down as one of the top 5 paid players in the prem ahead of Kane, Salah, Hazard, etc? Exactly! Arsenal would be mad to pay that when they have already got Ozil siphoning off thousands for little return! EDIT: Also, don't overlook the fact that Arsenal's ownership structure changed while the negotiations went on. Ivan Gazidis was a fan of Ramsey's, Stan Kroenke, now majority shareholder, is not.....
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Post by Albert on Jan 11, 2019 0:26:41 GMT
It was withdrawn when it became clear Ramsey wouldn't accept the offer and was pursuing other options Well, that's your interpretation. To quote Raphael Honigstein one of the European football experts from 5 Live: "But...280k for five years is not a small amount. It's absolutely massive. Easy to see why Arsenal walked away." Everything I've read suggests that Arsenal put themselves in a bind with Ozil's contract and that affected future contract dealings. You are only one I've seen mentioning it being a reaction to Ramsey walking away-- I'm assuming you have good inside info? To be honest, it makes sense that Arsenal would withdraw it, according to that Marcotti guy Ramsey's wage demands are in line with the top players in the PL: Pogba, Ozil, Sanchez, KDB....would you have Ramsey down as one of the top 5 paid players in the prem ahead of Kane, Salah, Hazard, etc? Exactly! Arsenal would be mad to pay that when they have already got Ozil siphoning off thousands for little return! EDIT: Also, don't overlook the fact that Arsenal's ownership structure changed while the negotiations went on. Ivan Gazidis was a fan of Ramsey's, Stan Kroenke, now majority shareholder, is not..... Is Ramsey a fan of Kroenke ?? Has he set his wage demands so high that Arsenal have no choice but to let him go. Ramsey is anti hunting and Kroenke is massive pro hunting and has a TV channel solely devoted to it. Highly unlikely I know but ...
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Post by insertname on Jan 11, 2019 1:00:37 GMT
Well, that's your interpretation. To quote Raphael Honigstein one of the European football experts from 5 Live: "But...280k for five years is not a small amount. It's absolutely massive. Easy to see why Arsenal walked away." Everything I've read suggests that Arsenal put themselves in a bind with Ozil's contract and that affected future contract dealings. You are only one I've seen mentioning it being a reaction to Ramsey walking away-- I'm assuming you have good inside info? To be honest, it makes sense that Arsenal would withdraw it, according to that Marcotti guy Ramsey's wage demands are in line with the top players in the PL: Pogba, Ozil, Sanchez, KDB....would you have Ramsey down as one of the top 5 paid players in the prem ahead of Kane, Salah, Hazard, etc? Exactly! Arsenal would be mad to pay that when they have already got Ozil siphoning off thousands for little return! EDIT: Also, don't overlook the fact that Arsenal's ownership structure changed while the negotiations went on. Ivan Gazidis was a fan of Ramsey's, Stan Kroenke, now majority shareholder, is not..... Is Ramsey a fan of Kroenke ?? Has he set his wage demands so high that Arsenal have no choice but to let him go. Ramsey is anti hunting and Kroenke is massive pro hunting and has a TV channel solely devoted to it. Highly unlikely I know but ... It's hard to say if his tactic was to price himself out on purpose to engineer a move, at the very least it certainly looks like he looked at Ozil's contract and thought "I'll have some of that" and understandably Arsenal don't want to be shelling out 600k+ on two players. In the context of him and Ozil you can understand him wanting the same but zooming out to the entire PL top 6 teams it's crazy to think he could be paid more than the likes of Aguero, Salah, Hazard etc. But that isn't a dig at Ramsey in particular, football is not a true meritocracy in that there will always be under-performing players all over the shop being paid more than better ones who are more consistent- it's the nature of the beast.
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Post by insertname on Jan 11, 2019 1:05:11 GMT
Your forgetting Storm knows more about football than Wenger and all the manager's who want to sign him. I for one are glad that that insertname is back posting again. You might not always agree with what his saying, but at least he is putting forward a well constructed argument about Welsh football (as apposed to comments on the % of Welsh speakers in South Pembrokeshire or some other sh*t) Thanks, I have always tried to convey that whilst I might have some controversial and unpopular opinions I try to point to facts/data that help show why I reached the conclusion that I have! PS: I actually don't really have an opinion on the Welsh speaking argument although I read those posts you are referring to with interest and some disappointment that people were falling out over the Welsh language of all things.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 11, 2019 1:32:14 GMT
Indeed. It wouldn't be a balanced argument if everyone agreed all the time. Storm raises some interesting viewpoints and offers a different perspective. As I've said before (as an Arsenal supporter), if we were talking about any other Arsenal player, I'd be quite concerned about yet another player running down his contract and the club not making more of an effort to at least offload him for a fee.
As a Wales supporter, I'm certainly biased in some respects. I don't think Ramsey is in the same league as Bale for instance, but he is still one of our top quality players. Perhaps he has the capacity to do a lot better.
Whether we think he is worth the signing fee, I feel his role at Arsenal has become rather stagnant over the last few years to be honest. It is said there has been a disagreement over Ramsey's position in midfield as a number 8, who knows.
But a new challenge might do him the world of good. Maybe I'm wrong but I suspected he was ready to leave Arsenal hence the protracted discussions. I see both sides of the argument. I don't blame Rambo for trying to obtain the best deal for himself if he thought that he could get it (even if his intention was to force Arsenal into a position whereby they'd have to let him go).
Equally, Arsenal have been in this position time after time after time, and enough's enough - at least that's what I would be saying if it was any other player! Naturally, as a Wales supporter, I am overjoyed at the prospect of an exciting new challenge for Rambo. I hope that he fights to earn his place in the squad and learns from the best. This could potentially benefit the national team in the long term. We potentially will have three CL players on our hands. Let's hope we get many more in the future! (looking at Ampadu, Brooks and Wilson in particular!).
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 11, 2019 8:10:25 GMT
I don’t blame Ramsey one bit for asking to be paid the same as Özil. He’s given far more to Arsenal than Mesut and deserves to be paid the same if not more. If those wages are ridiculously inflated, thats one of the unfortunate sides of modern football, not Ramsey’s doing. He’s been underpaid for a long time by those standards.
Saying that, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ramsey knew he was pricing himself out of a new contract by doing so. Wenger was like a father figure to him and once he left, Aaron probably felt it was time for a new challenge. With the European giants circling and courting his attention, it looks like he made the right call.
It’s onwards and upwards for the man from Caerphilly.
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