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Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 28, 2019 8:20:11 GMT
he needs to play regular now and going there has not helped with game time or confidence i bet. the championship is waiting and a championship club will thrive with him.
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Post by cadno on Nov 28, 2019 9:44:44 GMT
Frustrating especially when his best position is quite obviously Holding midfield. Better Cdm atm but he'll be a better CB eventually imo!
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Post by iot on Nov 28, 2019 12:47:28 GMT
It's a funny one really. Three managers (Conte, Sarri, and Nagelsmann) have all deemed his best position to be CB. I think only Sarri tried him in midfield and didn't think he was good enough at the moment. That's what Sarri said after they tried him in DM position during the league cup. I agree he usually looks solid for us at DM but the truth is the DM position is much more demanding in the top leagues than at international level. Allen has always been sensational for us but never really succeed with a top club. I think, if Ampadu is going to break in to the Chelsea line-up in the next few years, it'll be at CB, not DM. I think that's a slight misunderstanding of the specific role jorginho plays. He's not a classic DM - he doesn't get stuck in, he's there more for the metronome effect - more similar to allen. Ampadu is a different type of midfielder, more like an eric dier, declan rice type. Sarri always has that metronome-type player in his teams, and he was commenting that ampadu isn't suited to that specific role. You're right on Nagelsmann however, I think he's been quoted as saying he doesn't think ampadu's passing is up to scratch to be a midfiielder, but has been very impressed by his attitude and tackling, hence slotting him in at the back.
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Post by impeachabull on Nov 28, 2019 13:24:23 GMT
It's a funny one really. Three managers (Conte, Sarri, and Nagelsmann) have all deemed his best position to be CB. I think only Sarri tried him in midfield and didn't think he was good enough at the moment. That's what Sarri said after they tried him in DM position during the league cup. I agree he usually looks solid for us at DM but the truth is the DM position is much more demanding in the top leagues than at international level. Allen has always been sensational for us but never really succeed with a top club. I think, if Ampadu is going to break in to the Chelsea line-up in the next few years, it'll be at CB, not DM. I think that's a slight misunderstanding of the specific role jorginho plays. He's not a classic DM - he doesn't get stuck in, he's there more for the metronome effect - more similar to allen. Ampadu is a different type of midfielder, more like an eric dier, declan rice type. Sarri always has that metronome-type player in his teams, and he was commenting that ampadu isn't suited to that specific role. You're right on Nagelsmann however, I think he's been quoted as saying he doesn't think ampadu's passing is up to scratch to be a midfiielder, but has been very impressed by his attitude and tackling, hence slotting him in at the back. Oh, 100% agreed. The regista role is particularly complex but all top Premier League defensive midfielders use facets of it. Jorginho's role under Sarri was a particularly pure example, but all the top teams don't really utilise a classic defensive midfielder in the old British sense. It's much, much more about being a deep lying playmaker these days. Hence why I think Ampadu is much more likely to break-through as a CB and tbh I do think that's his natural position. He's played basically every non-international game of football there (for Exeter, Chelsea first-time, Chelsea U23s, and Leipzig).
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 28, 2019 13:58:30 GMT
The regista role doesn’t work so well in the Premier League. It’s a bit too high tempo and physical. It works very well in the Italian leagues which are more tactical, and on an international level one of my favourite generic footballing memories is watching Pirlo dismantle England from that position on two occasions. England had absolutely no idea how to play against a player like that and it was a joy to watch. Jorginho is very much in that mould but he isn’t as good as Pirlo, although to be fair is probably slightly more athletic than Pirlo was and therefore does reasonably well for Chelsea.
Back to Ampadu though, he is definitely a CB who can play CDM and I think his best position for us is midfield for now due to our options. International football and club football work very differently. I do think people are being overly harsh on him though, it was his first ever start in the Champions League for goodness sake! I watched the first half and whilst you could argue he stepped out too readily for the goal there were 3/4 other mistakes that contributed to the goal. No it wasn’t his best performance but he wasn’t awful either, and he made a great sliding tackle in his own box earlier in the game.
Ultimately we can only judge whether or not his loan has been successful at the end of the season. I’m sure he will have plenty more opportunities when all is said and done, and I think the goal should be seeing him in the Chelsea squad next year.
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Post by iot on Nov 28, 2019 14:15:00 GMT
The regista role doesn’t work so well in the Premier League. It’s a bit too high tempo and physical. It works very well in the Italian leagues which are more tactical, and on an international level one of my favourite generic footballing memories is watching Pirlo dismantle England from that position on two occasions. England had absolutely no idea how to play against a player like that and it was a joy to watch. Jorginho is very much in that mould but he isn’t as good as Pirlo, although to be fair is probably slightly more athletic than Pirlo was and therefore does reasonably well for Chelsea. Back to Ampadu though, he is definitely a CB who can play CDM and I think his best position for us is midfield for now due to our options. International football and club football work very differently. I do think people are being overly harsh on him though, it was his first ever start in the Champions League for goodness sake! I watched the first half and whilst you could argue he stepped out too readily for the goal there were 3/4 other mistakes that contributed to the goal. No it wasn’t his best performance but he wasn’t awful either, and he made a great sliding tackle in his own box earlier in the game. Ultimately we can only judge whether or not his loan has been successful at the end of the season. I’m sure he will have plenty more opportunities when all is said and done, and I think the goal should be seeing him in the Chelsea squad next year. Interesting, would you describe Joe Allen as a regista-type player and, if registas do well in internationals and poor in the premier league (massive generalisations claxon), does that explain why Joe Allen looks elite in internationals but no premier league side are interested?
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Post by georgetm1 on Nov 28, 2019 14:17:41 GMT
I'm not surprised Ampadu struggled though, Benfica's counter attacking is awesome.
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Post by alarch on Nov 28, 2019 16:53:59 GMT
The regista role doesn’t work so well in the Premier League. It’s a bit too high tempo and physical. It works very well in the Italian leagues which are more tactical, and on an international level one of my favourite generic footballing memories is watching Pirlo dismantle England from that position on two occasions. England had absolutely no idea how to play against a player like that and it was a joy to watch. Jorginho is very much in that mould but he isn’t as good as Pirlo, although to be fair is probably slightly more athletic than Pirlo was and therefore does reasonably well for Chelsea. Back to Ampadu though, he is definitely a CB who can play CDM and I think his best position for us is midfield for now due to our options. International football and club football work very differently. I do think people are being overly harsh on him though, it was his first ever start in the Champions League for goodness sake! I watched the first half and whilst you could argue he stepped out too readily for the goal there were 3/4 other mistakes that contributed to the goal. No it wasn’t his best performance but he wasn’t awful either, and he made a great sliding tackle in his own box earlier in the game. Ultimately we can only judge whether or not his loan has been successful at the end of the season. I’m sure he will have plenty more opportunities when all is said and done, and I think the goal should be seeing him in the Chelsea squad next year. Interesting, would you describe Joe Allen as a regista-type player and, if registas do well in internationals and poor in the premier league (massive generalisations claxon), does that explain why Joe Allen looks elite in internationals but no premier league side are interested? I don't think it's correct to say "no premier league side are interested". Plenty have shown an interest - but have been put off by the ridiculous price tag Stoke have put on him. With talk of Stoke having to trim their wage bill with FFP in mind, hopefully Allen will be on the move in January. He would be asset to Man U, let alone the likes of Everton or Bournemouth. If the price is right he'll leave.
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Post by cadno on Nov 28, 2019 18:49:32 GMT
Interesting, would you describe Joe Allen as a regista-type player and, if registas do well in internationals and poor in the premier league (massive generalisations claxon), does that explain why Joe Allen looks elite in internationals but no premier league side are interested? I don't think it's correct to say "no premier league side are interested". Plenty have shown an interest - but have been put off by the ridiculous price tag Stoke have put on him. With talk of Stoke having to trim their wage bill with FFP in mind, hopefully Allen will be on the move in January. He would be asset to Man U, let alone the likes of Everton or Bournemouth. If the price is right he'll leave. Everton miss Gueye, and now Gomes is injured they could do with a good midfielder! I would rather see him play for Bournemouth, or the Swans!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 28, 2019 18:50:05 GMT
The regista role doesn’t work so well in the Premier League. It’s a bit too high tempo and physical. It works very well in the Italian leagues which are more tactical, and on an international level one of my favourite generic footballing memories is watching Pirlo dismantle England from that position on two occasions. England had absolutely no idea how to play against a player like that and it was a joy to watch. Jorginho is very much in that mould but he isn’t as good as Pirlo, although to be fair is probably slightly more athletic than Pirlo was and therefore does reasonably well for Chelsea. Back to Ampadu though, he is definitely a CB who can play CDM and I think his best position for us is midfield for now due to our options. International football and club football work very differently. I do think people are being overly harsh on him though, it was his first ever start in the Champions League for goodness sake! I watched the first half and whilst you could argue he stepped out too readily for the goal there were 3/4 other mistakes that contributed to the goal. No it wasn’t his best performance but he wasn’t awful either, and he made a great sliding tackle in his own box earlier in the game. Ultimately we can only judge whether or not his loan has been successful at the end of the season. I’m sure he will have plenty more opportunities when all is said and done, and I think the goal should be seeing him in the Chelsea squad next year. Interesting, would you describe Joe Allen as a regista-type player and, if registas do well in internationals and poor in the premier league (massive generalisations claxon), does that explain why Joe Allen looks elite in internationals but no premier league side are interested? No I'd say Allen is a bit different from a regista. He's too all-action and combative to be a regista, and not a good enough passer. A regista has very little defensive responsibility other than filling in spaces in the defensive block, and has to be played with at least two other CM's both of whom have to be physical and defensively competent. So for Pirlo at Juventus these two players were Pogba and Vidal, for Italy they played 3 other CM's - De Rossi, Montolivo and Marchisio. The main role of the regista is to completely dictate the tempo of the game and be very creative from deep in midfield, as opposed to the no.10 position. Therefore, both Juventus and Italy didn't need to play with a 10 because of Pirlo's ability in this role (there was no-one better than him at this). Because it is so highly specified as a role not many players in the world really fit this mould. If you're interested watch this video - www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyjjlTipEEAnd this to see the role in action - www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3u9Ju8y6Ac&t=33sIf I had to describe Allen's role I'd say he's halfway between a ball-winning midfielder and a deep lying playmaker, who utilises his reading of the game to break up play rather than sheer strength or physicality, but also starts attacks because he is very composed on the ball (without being a world class passer). If I had to put my finger on the disparity between Allen for his club vs country, I'd say that because Allen is halfway between two defined roles he will often be overlooked by clubs who often seek specialists in their position. For example, a club is looking for an out-and-out ball or deep lying playmaker may overlook Allen because he isn't 100% fitted to either role. Clubs have the flexibility to do this, whereas international sides don't. In international football you don't have time to do much tactical work, and you don't have a great choice with your players, therefore having Allen who fulfils multiple roles within the midfield is very handy for us.
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Post by barry on Nov 28, 2019 19:33:37 GMT
Regista? WTF is that. Some poncey term to impress your mates when you're down the gastro pub drinking your craft beer. Sign of the gentrification of football. Back in the day this was a regsita. All in jest, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 20:04:22 GMT
Joe Allen is a "terrier" in the official lexicon.
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Post by alarch on Nov 28, 2019 22:00:32 GMT
Interesting, would you describe Joe Allen as a regista-type player and, if registas do well in internationals and poor in the premier league (massive generalisations claxon), does that explain why Joe Allen looks elite in internationals but no premier league side are interested? No I'd say Allen is a bit different from a regista. He's too all-action and combative to be a regista, and not a good enough passer. A regista has very little defensive responsibility other than filling in spaces in the defensive block, and has to be played with at least two other CM's both of whom have to be physical and defensively competent. So for Pirlo at Juventus these two players were Pogba and Vidal, for Italy they played 3 other CM's - De Rossi, Montolivo and Marchisio. The main role of the regista is to completely dictate the tempo of the game and be very creative from deep in midfield, as opposed to the no.10 position. Therefore, both Juventus and Italy didn't need to play with a 10 because of Pirlo's ability in this role (there was no-one better than him at this). Because it is so highly specified as a role not many players in the world really fit this mould. If you're interested watch this video - www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyjjlTipEEAnd this to see the role in action - www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3u9Ju8y6Ac&t=33sIf I had to describe Allen's role I'd say he's halfway between a ball-winning midfielder and a deep lying playmaker, who utilises his reading of the game to break up play rather than sheer strength or physicality, but also starts attacks because he is very composed on the ball (without being a world class passer). If I had to put my finger on the disparity between Allen for his club vs country, I'd say that because Allen is halfway between two defined roles he will often be overlooked by clubs who often seek specialists in their position. For example, a club is looking for an out-and-out ball or deep lying playmaker may overlook Allen because he isn't 100% fitted to either role. Clubs have the flexibility to do this, whereas international sides don't. In international football you don't have time to do much tactical work, and you don't have a great choice with your players, therefore having Allen who fulfils multiple roles within the midfield is very handy for us. Great post, but I differ on one point. I don't think that the disparity between Allen's club and international form has been that great. It's easy to forget that he was terrific for Swansea in their inaugural season in the Premier League. When he first moved to Liverpool Rodgers gave him a more restricted defensive role, because Rodgers didn't trust any other player to perform the role. But his time at Liverpool was badly hampered by a series of injuries. When fully fit he always impressed, including under Klopp. It must be a matter of frustration for Allen that now that he's largely injury-free consistently he's trapped at Stoke with golden handcuffs. Once he's back in the Premier League again he'll flourish.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 28, 2019 22:11:49 GMT
No I'd say Allen is a bit different from a regista. He's too all-action and combative to be a regista, and not a good enough passer. A regista has very little defensive responsibility other than filling in spaces in the defensive block, and has to be played with at least two other CM's both of whom have to be physical and defensively competent. So for Pirlo at Juventus these two players were Pogba and Vidal, for Italy they played 3 other CM's - De Rossi, Montolivo and Marchisio. The main role of the regista is to completely dictate the tempo of the game and be very creative from deep in midfield, as opposed to the no.10 position. Therefore, both Juventus and Italy didn't need to play with a 10 because of Pirlo's ability in this role (there was no-one better than him at this). Because it is so highly specified as a role not many players in the world really fit this mould. If you're interested watch this video - www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyjjlTipEEAnd this to see the role in action - www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3u9Ju8y6Ac&t=33sIf I had to describe Allen's role I'd say he's halfway between a ball-winning midfielder and a deep lying playmaker, who utilises his reading of the game to break up play rather than sheer strength or physicality, but also starts attacks because he is very composed on the ball (without being a world class passer). If I had to put my finger on the disparity between Allen for his club vs country, I'd say that because Allen is halfway between two defined roles he will often be overlooked by clubs who often seek specialists in their position. For example, a club is looking for an out-and-out ball or deep lying playmaker may overlook Allen because he isn't 100% fitted to either role. Clubs have the flexibility to do this, whereas international sides don't. In international football you don't have time to do much tactical work, and you don't have a great choice with your players, therefore having Allen who fulfils multiple roles within the midfield is very handy for us. Great post, but I differ on one point. I don't think that the disparity between Allen's club and international form has been that great. It's easy to forget that he was terrific for Swansea in their inaugural season in the Premier League. When he first moved to Liverpool Rodgers gave him a more restricted defensive role, because Rodgers didn't trust any other player to perform the role. But his time at Liverpool was badly hampered by a series of injuries. When fully fit he always impressed, including under Klopp. It must be a matter of frustration for Allen that now that he's largely injury-free consistently he's trapped at Stoke with golden handcuffs. Once he's back in the Premier League again he'll flourish. Yes you're right, I didn't mean to say that I think he's been poor for his clubs, just perhaps why a move hasn't materialised sooner. I really hope for him that he does end up back in the Premier League which I definitely agree is his level. It may be the case that he's the type of midfielder who really hits his top form later in his career.
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Post by johnoster on Nov 29, 2019 13:33:32 GMT
Regista? WTF is that. Some poncey term to impress your mates when you're down the gastro pub drinking your craft beer. Sign of the gentrification of football. Back in the day this was a regsita. All in jest, of course.
I bet you're on some sort of regista.
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Post by barry on Dec 1, 2019 23:45:39 GMT
Back as an unused sub again yesterday.
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Post by richierich333 on Dec 2, 2019 7:47:10 GMT
Regista? WTF is that. Some poncey term to impress your mates when you're down the gastro pub drinking your craft beer. Sign of the gentrification of football. Back in the day this was a regsita. All in jest, of course.
I bet you're on some sort of regista.
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Post by barry on Dec 7, 2019 17:30:06 GMT
Not even in the squad today.
If not injured needs to be recalled pronto. We need him to be getting game time.
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 10, 2019 21:32:02 GMT
On for the last half hour in the CL tonight
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Dec 10, 2019 22:14:51 GMT
On for the last half hour in the CL tonight And he's helped Leipzig to qualify for the last 16 of the Champions League, good stuff.
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Post by barry on Dec 14, 2019 19:23:09 GMT
Unused sub today.
Imperative he's hooked now.
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Post by welshiron on Dec 15, 2019 12:18:50 GMT
They are top of the Bundasleiga so not a surprise hes not getting game time.
Not sure he will get any games at Chelsea so might need to sit it out and hope for more chances
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Post by barry on Dec 15, 2019 19:40:10 GMT
They are top of the Bundasleiga so not a surprise hes not getting game time. Not sure he will get any games at Chelsea so might need to sit it out and hope for more chances False dichotomy.
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Post by barry on Dec 21, 2019 16:28:11 GMT
Unused sub again.
As on Tuesday.
3 games in a week and they still don't see a need to use him.
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Post by hooky on Dec 21, 2019 16:35:34 GMT
Why on earth did they want to loan him if they don't rate or trust him? Such a waste of a season - he needs to be getting experience. Its the same with QPR and Matt Smith
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Post by playslikeiniesta on Dec 23, 2019 21:52:06 GMT
Ethan Ampadu has chopped his dreadlocks off and now looks like Jadon Sancho haha!
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Post by manulike on Dec 23, 2019 22:19:27 GMT
Ethan Ampadu has chopped his dreadlocks off and now looks like Jadon Sancho haha! Oh dear!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 22:33:09 GMT
Less wind resistance. Better peripheral vision. These are the improvements in his game that he went to Germany for.
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Post by moodgod on Dec 24, 2019 0:12:25 GMT
Less wind resistance. Better peripheral vision. These are the improvements in his game that he went to Germany for. He must be at least a yard quicker with such an improved drag coefficient. Did he go into a wind tunnel like an Audi before he went to the barbers?
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Post by barry on Dec 24, 2019 2:17:52 GMT
Less wind resistance. Better peripheral vision. These are the improvements in his game that he went to Germany for. He must be at least a yard quicker with such an improved drag coefficient. Did he go into a wind tunnel like an Audi before he went to the barbers? It must make some difference, especially in the rain when they get heavier. Small margins at the top level of football.
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