Post by corky on Jan 30, 2017 16:20:27 GMT
Before people have a go or make comments it should be known that the FSF attend these meetings and anyone is allowed to particiapate if they ask in advance, The FAW and police agree to and facilitate these meetings...the purpose is to get communication between the FAW and the fans regardless of whether they are FSF members, or FAW members. Some fans will not like the contents and that is their right but they are just a factual account of what took place at the meeting.
Guests
Name Stakeholder Group
Paul Corkrey FSF Cymru
Colin Lewis Swansea City and Wales supporter
Vince Alm FSF Cymru
Robyn Cooke FSF Gogledd Cymru
Erfyl Williams FSF Gogledd Cymru
Barry Thomas FSF Gogledd Cymru
Dafydd Osian FSF Gogledd Cymru
Adam Jones FSF Gogledd Cymru
Matthew Hughes FSF Gogledd Cymru
Martyn Jones FSF Gogledd Cymru
Ian Gwyn Hughes FAW, Head of Public Affairs
Lucy Mason FAW, Ticketing & Membership Manager
Wayne Nash FAW Security Officer / Cardiff City Stadium Head of Operations
Chris Martin Cardiff City Stadium, Stewards Logistics Officer
Heidi Goldsack North Wales Police
Lynne Milligan Arriva Trains Wales, Customer Services Director
Bethan Jelfs Arriva Trains Wales, Head of Stations
Lewis Brencher Arriva Trains Wales, Head of Communications
Peter Jones Wrexham Supporters Trust
Andy Kilshaw Wrexham
Geoff Scott Wrexham Supporters Trust
Dave Jones Wrexham Supporters Trust
Agenda
Arriva Trains Wales – Welsh stations
Arriva Trains Wales – general
Republic of Ireland v Wales – Tickets, allocation, prices, criteria
Including return match in Cardiff
Pennant of Friendship
Serbia v Wales 11.06.17 – venue, allocation etc
UEFA Champions League Final, Cardiff. Volunteers etc
Programmes
Any other business
Arriva Trains Wales
Arriva trains representatives agreed to attend the meeting to discuss train services for Welsh football fans attending international games.
Questions that were asked with the survey results sent to Arriva in advance of the meeting
Why are there no trains back to Holyhead/ North Wales after Welsh football matches played at Cardiff?
Are there any plans in place to provide a service?
We supplied the following results of an online survey we had carried out amongst our members and the key results were that many would use a train but the following was mentioned by the clear majority
It must be affordable
It must be well advertised well in advance
Could it have more than just two carriages to avoid standing
Could it have reserved seating booked in advance?
Limited stations should be used at least until Wrexham, to discourage people using the train where there is an alternative, it would also speed up the journey.
Sensible arrangements regarding alcohol on the train, no actual dry trains
A very good and instructive information sharing session then took place with the three Arriva representatives who all explained the options, and viability of such a service and it was all very positive and good progress was made for a first meeting, with future meetings planned to benefit both parties, especially with advance warning of what may be required regards train services.
The key points were
Arriva trains were very keen to provide a service
It would consist of 4 carriage train to include buffet car for 220 passengers
It would not be a normal scheduled train, but a “football special”
It could go directly from North to South Wales without station stops if required to reduce journey time.ie after Wrexham directly to Cardiff and vice versa
It can have advanced booking and first class option if required
It possibly could use Grangetown station rather than Central Cardiff
Weekends would be easier but week days would be still possible
What would need to be done
Arriva would need to secure the following to provide the service and they were confident that this could be achieved even though it would be an unscheduled, unsubsidized charter train
Hire paths or track from Network rail for the route
Inform the Welsh government about the service and any implications it could have on normal service of the route.
Ensure they have the right staffing and train to provide the service
Viability of the service in regards to costs but they may be happy to breakeven but can’t run the service at a loss
Costings were discussed in length and Arriva said that they were thinking about a set price for the service regardless of where fans start their journey current prices for a scheduled train day return to Cardiff from Chester is £74.60 and Holyhead is £94.60 but you can get cheaper advance fares plus use rail cards to get fares cheaper and this route is subsidised by the Welsh government. For this unscheduled train one price would be charged regardless of when booked or from which station with children under 16 travelling half price, the final price would need to be calculated
The delegates were quick to express their feelings that this was expensive and coach travel was a great deal cheaper but again it was explained that this was just the initial costing forecast and things could be put in place to subsidize the cost such as first class compartment and even possible sponsorship which the FAW said they would investigate with their contacts. So, a final cost is not yet known but the maximum it could be would be £74.60 adult, and half that for children.
Next Stage
FSF Gogledd will now conduct another survey with the information from this meeting to see what reaction they get and the results of that will be put to Arriva once they are known. Arriva trains need at least 18 weeks’ notice to activate a service so there is still plenty of time.
Arriva Trains
We then discussed train services from Cardiff central following games to all stations and the fact that some were leaving before the game ended which meant fans having to leave the game before full time. It was pointed out that after discussions before the Georgia game a train was delayed 20 minutes to assist fans in getting back to the centre, this sort of communication could result in other measures being taken to assist fans and ongoing dialogue was suggested.
Republic of Ireland v Wales – Tickets, allocation, prices, criteria Including return match in Cardiff
This has been the subject of great discussion amongst Welsh fans with interest being very intense, the message boards and forums have been in overdrive about the fairness of the allocation and the fact that Wales fans were getting a lower percentage of tickets plus were paying almost double the price.
The FAW explained that a meeting had taken place in November when a decision had to be made and with the knowledge that over 9,000 FAW members had returned the survey stating they would be going to Ireland. The official offer on the table was 5% per nation and if no agreement was reached then that would be the allocation under the tournament rules, in other words 2,550 tickets for Welsh fans and 1700 tickets for the Irish fans for the return in Cardiff.
The Irish and Welsh delegates both knew the demand was much higher than the allocation and came to an agreement that 3500 tickets could be allocated equally to both Welsh and Irish supporters, still not enough but higher than the official number although the agreement favoured the Irish fans because they have a bigger stadium, although it will mean 3,300 tickets should be available to both sets of fans but no doubt the Irish FA will have a very different criteria to the criteria set out for Welsh fan ticket allocation.
There would be 3,300 tickets made available to Welsh FA members under the following criteria, all being Cat 2 tickets at a cost of £44, There will be 200 Cat one tickets for players, officials etc.at £60 each
We have an allocation of 3300 cat. 2 tickets, thus the loyalty scheme will be implemented with members having to meet the criteria to be eligible
Ticket sales Stage one from 10 am Monday January 3oth until 10 am Friday February 3rd for 2018 World cup gold members/Junior members only and they will be guaranteed a ticket if they book within those dates and they have a booking history of attending at least 2 of the last 8 away qualifying/friendly matches
There are 2,500 members who currently meet that criteria but we do not expect every one of those to apply which will leave the surplus available on a first come first served basis for Stage two ticket sales who also must be members but they have a booking history of attending at least 1 of the last 8 away qualifying/friendly matches these will be on sale from Monday 10 am February 6th until 10am Friday February 10th
Tickets are expected to sell out at this point with approx. 4,000 (should read 5,000 after checking) eligible to apply but if there are any left they will go on sale to members who have not attended any away games in the last two years. These games are inclusive of the following away trips starting September 2014 and ending in June 2016
Austria, Sweden, Ukraine, Bosnia & Herzegovina Cyprus, Israel, Belgium and Andorra
Please note that tickets for the EURO 16 finals in France were sold through UEFA, we therefore do not have a full record of members who attended these games and they cannot be used as part of the loyalty scheme.
The FSF strongly argues that they felt that we should have negotiated a better deal but were not present at the negotiations so were not aware of the discussions that took place, while welcoming the extra tickets made available they wanted to express to the FAW that the members were unhappy with the outcome.
The FAW maintained that they did the best deal they could in the circumstances with the knowledge that so many fans wanted to go and had to compromise to secure the extra 900 tickets. They do not believe they should charge Ireland fans more for their tickets (neither did anyone at the meeting) pointing out that Serbia charge us £10 for tickets but we still charge them £25 at Cardiff…the fact is Ireland fans will pay the same as Welsh fans at the Aviva (except season ticket holders) and Welsh fans will pay the same £25 as Irish fans at the Cardiff stadium for the return game. Tickets at totally sold out for this game now in Ireland and there was no possibility of obtaining extra tickets
It was agreed by everyone present that the criteria were fair to all members with two aways guaranteeing a ticket and that all Welsh fans are included, there is no clique or preferential treatment, it is purely based on booking history which fans can build up themselves providing their join the FAW membership scheme.
Pennant of Friendship
Welsh and Irish fans will exchange pennants of friendship prior to the game on pitch side. A suitable pennant will be made to use for this purpose.
Serbia v Wales 11.06.17 – venue, allocation etc.
More will be known about this at the next meeting following the FAW site visit to Belgrade, the Serbians have only registered two venues for their fixtures both of which are in Belgrade, The Red Star Stadium which holds over 50,000 and the Partizan stadium which has a capacity of almost 33,000. A survey will be sent out to gauge the interest for this game and if necessary the loyalty scheme will be used but we expect to have enough tickets to satisfy the demand.
Programmes
It was asked whether match day programmes would be available in the future, The FAW explained that nothing would change this campaign but they are reviewing all their paper products and looking at using technology more to produce things electronically and that includes all FAW publications not just the programmes which are still making a loss.
Members
There are just under 30,000 FAW members at the moment and membership will remain open there are also 120 members of the very successful Schools and clubs scheme.
UEFA Champions League Final, Cardiff. Volunteers etc.
We briefly discussed the Champions league final in Cardiff and the possibility of Welsh fans being involved and we were directed to the FAW website
www.faw.cymru/en/news/uefa-champions-league-uefa-womens-champions-league-finals-volunteer-programme-launched/
Any other business
It was asked whether there would be any other repercussions about the Poppy on the shirts and the FAW confirmed that they have been charged but will meet the challenge again if it arises again in the future, it had never been an issue in the past.
FSF Cymru Meeting January 27th 2017, Wrexham AFC 7PM – 9 PM
Guests
Name Stakeholder Group
Paul Corkrey FSF Cymru
Colin Lewis Swansea City and Wales supporter
Vince Alm FSF Cymru
Robyn Cooke FSF Gogledd Cymru
Erfyl Williams FSF Gogledd Cymru
Barry Thomas FSF Gogledd Cymru
Dafydd Osian FSF Gogledd Cymru
Adam Jones FSF Gogledd Cymru
Matthew Hughes FSF Gogledd Cymru
Martyn Jones FSF Gogledd Cymru
Ian Gwyn Hughes FAW, Head of Public Affairs
Lucy Mason FAW, Ticketing & Membership Manager
Wayne Nash FAW Security Officer / Cardiff City Stadium Head of Operations
Chris Martin Cardiff City Stadium, Stewards Logistics Officer
Heidi Goldsack North Wales Police
Lynne Milligan Arriva Trains Wales, Customer Services Director
Bethan Jelfs Arriva Trains Wales, Head of Stations
Lewis Brencher Arriva Trains Wales, Head of Communications
Peter Jones Wrexham Supporters Trust
Andy Kilshaw Wrexham
Geoff Scott Wrexham Supporters Trust
Dave Jones Wrexham Supporters Trust
Agenda
Arriva Trains Wales – Welsh stations
Arriva Trains Wales – general
Republic of Ireland v Wales – Tickets, allocation, prices, criteria
Including return match in Cardiff
Pennant of Friendship
Serbia v Wales 11.06.17 – venue, allocation etc
UEFA Champions League Final, Cardiff. Volunteers etc
Programmes
Any other business
Arriva Trains Wales
Arriva trains representatives agreed to attend the meeting to discuss train services for Welsh football fans attending international games.
Questions that were asked with the survey results sent to Arriva in advance of the meeting
Why are there no trains back to Holyhead/ North Wales after Welsh football matches played at Cardiff?
Are there any plans in place to provide a service?
We supplied the following results of an online survey we had carried out amongst our members and the key results were that many would use a train but the following was mentioned by the clear majority
It must be affordable
It must be well advertised well in advance
Could it have more than just two carriages to avoid standing
Could it have reserved seating booked in advance?
Limited stations should be used at least until Wrexham, to discourage people using the train where there is an alternative, it would also speed up the journey.
Sensible arrangements regarding alcohol on the train, no actual dry trains
A very good and instructive information sharing session then took place with the three Arriva representatives who all explained the options, and viability of such a service and it was all very positive and good progress was made for a first meeting, with future meetings planned to benefit both parties, especially with advance warning of what may be required regards train services.
The key points were
Arriva trains were very keen to provide a service
It would consist of 4 carriage train to include buffet car for 220 passengers
It would not be a normal scheduled train, but a “football special”
It could go directly from North to South Wales without station stops if required to reduce journey time.ie after Wrexham directly to Cardiff and vice versa
It can have advanced booking and first class option if required
It possibly could use Grangetown station rather than Central Cardiff
Weekends would be easier but week days would be still possible
What would need to be done
Arriva would need to secure the following to provide the service and they were confident that this could be achieved even though it would be an unscheduled, unsubsidized charter train
Hire paths or track from Network rail for the route
Inform the Welsh government about the service and any implications it could have on normal service of the route.
Ensure they have the right staffing and train to provide the service
Viability of the service in regards to costs but they may be happy to breakeven but can’t run the service at a loss
Costings were discussed in length and Arriva said that they were thinking about a set price for the service regardless of where fans start their journey current prices for a scheduled train day return to Cardiff from Chester is £74.60 and Holyhead is £94.60 but you can get cheaper advance fares plus use rail cards to get fares cheaper and this route is subsidised by the Welsh government. For this unscheduled train one price would be charged regardless of when booked or from which station with children under 16 travelling half price, the final price would need to be calculated
The delegates were quick to express their feelings that this was expensive and coach travel was a great deal cheaper but again it was explained that this was just the initial costing forecast and things could be put in place to subsidize the cost such as first class compartment and even possible sponsorship which the FAW said they would investigate with their contacts. So, a final cost is not yet known but the maximum it could be would be £74.60 adult, and half that for children.
Next Stage
FSF Gogledd will now conduct another survey with the information from this meeting to see what reaction they get and the results of that will be put to Arriva once they are known. Arriva trains need at least 18 weeks’ notice to activate a service so there is still plenty of time.
Arriva Trains
We then discussed train services from Cardiff central following games to all stations and the fact that some were leaving before the game ended which meant fans having to leave the game before full time. It was pointed out that after discussions before the Georgia game a train was delayed 20 minutes to assist fans in getting back to the centre, this sort of communication could result in other measures being taken to assist fans and ongoing dialogue was suggested.
Republic of Ireland v Wales – Tickets, allocation, prices, criteria Including return match in Cardiff
This has been the subject of great discussion amongst Welsh fans with interest being very intense, the message boards and forums have been in overdrive about the fairness of the allocation and the fact that Wales fans were getting a lower percentage of tickets plus were paying almost double the price.
The FAW explained that a meeting had taken place in November when a decision had to be made and with the knowledge that over 9,000 FAW members had returned the survey stating they would be going to Ireland. The official offer on the table was 5% per nation and if no agreement was reached then that would be the allocation under the tournament rules, in other words 2,550 tickets for Welsh fans and 1700 tickets for the Irish fans for the return in Cardiff.
The Irish and Welsh delegates both knew the demand was much higher than the allocation and came to an agreement that 3500 tickets could be allocated equally to both Welsh and Irish supporters, still not enough but higher than the official number although the agreement favoured the Irish fans because they have a bigger stadium, although it will mean 3,300 tickets should be available to both sets of fans but no doubt the Irish FA will have a very different criteria to the criteria set out for Welsh fan ticket allocation.
There would be 3,300 tickets made available to Welsh FA members under the following criteria, all being Cat 2 tickets at a cost of £44, There will be 200 Cat one tickets for players, officials etc.at £60 each
We have an allocation of 3300 cat. 2 tickets, thus the loyalty scheme will be implemented with members having to meet the criteria to be eligible
Ticket sales Stage one from 10 am Monday January 3oth until 10 am Friday February 3rd for 2018 World cup gold members/Junior members only and they will be guaranteed a ticket if they book within those dates and they have a booking history of attending at least 2 of the last 8 away qualifying/friendly matches
There are 2,500 members who currently meet that criteria but we do not expect every one of those to apply which will leave the surplus available on a first come first served basis for Stage two ticket sales who also must be members but they have a booking history of attending at least 1 of the last 8 away qualifying/friendly matches these will be on sale from Monday 10 am February 6th until 10am Friday February 10th
Tickets are expected to sell out at this point with approx. 4,000 (should read 5,000 after checking) eligible to apply but if there are any left they will go on sale to members who have not attended any away games in the last two years. These games are inclusive of the following away trips starting September 2014 and ending in June 2016
Austria, Sweden, Ukraine, Bosnia & Herzegovina Cyprus, Israel, Belgium and Andorra
Please note that tickets for the EURO 16 finals in France were sold through UEFA, we therefore do not have a full record of members who attended these games and they cannot be used as part of the loyalty scheme.
The FSF strongly argues that they felt that we should have negotiated a better deal but were not present at the negotiations so were not aware of the discussions that took place, while welcoming the extra tickets made available they wanted to express to the FAW that the members were unhappy with the outcome.
The FAW maintained that they did the best deal they could in the circumstances with the knowledge that so many fans wanted to go and had to compromise to secure the extra 900 tickets. They do not believe they should charge Ireland fans more for their tickets (neither did anyone at the meeting) pointing out that Serbia charge us £10 for tickets but we still charge them £25 at Cardiff…the fact is Ireland fans will pay the same as Welsh fans at the Aviva (except season ticket holders) and Welsh fans will pay the same £25 as Irish fans at the Cardiff stadium for the return game. Tickets at totally sold out for this game now in Ireland and there was no possibility of obtaining extra tickets
It was agreed by everyone present that the criteria were fair to all members with two aways guaranteeing a ticket and that all Welsh fans are included, there is no clique or preferential treatment, it is purely based on booking history which fans can build up themselves providing their join the FAW membership scheme.
Pennant of Friendship
Welsh and Irish fans will exchange pennants of friendship prior to the game on pitch side. A suitable pennant will be made to use for this purpose.
Serbia v Wales 11.06.17 – venue, allocation etc.
More will be known about this at the next meeting following the FAW site visit to Belgrade, the Serbians have only registered two venues for their fixtures both of which are in Belgrade, The Red Star Stadium which holds over 50,000 and the Partizan stadium which has a capacity of almost 33,000. A survey will be sent out to gauge the interest for this game and if necessary the loyalty scheme will be used but we expect to have enough tickets to satisfy the demand.
Programmes
It was asked whether match day programmes would be available in the future, The FAW explained that nothing would change this campaign but they are reviewing all their paper products and looking at using technology more to produce things electronically and that includes all FAW publications not just the programmes which are still making a loss.
Members
There are just under 30,000 FAW members at the moment and membership will remain open there are also 120 members of the very successful Schools and clubs scheme.
UEFA Champions League Final, Cardiff. Volunteers etc.
We briefly discussed the Champions league final in Cardiff and the possibility of Welsh fans being involved and we were directed to the FAW website
www.faw.cymru/en/news/uefa-champions-league-uefa-womens-champions-league-finals-volunteer-programme-launched/
Any other business
It was asked whether there would be any other repercussions about the Poppy on the shirts and the FAW confirmed that they have been charged but will meet the challenge again if it arises again in the future, it had never been an issue in the past.
