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Post by robin1864 on Jan 17, 2019 19:40:27 GMT
Not football related - perhaps we need an off-topic forum?
When did WalesOnline become so pro-Wales? They've been going on the attack for the last few weeks over lost jobs, infrastructure and so on. I can't imagine it'll be long before they're advocating Welsh independence if they keep it up.
With the tone they're setting, would now be the right time for Plaid to start making an aggressive, "take back control" indy push?
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Post by bracklablue72 on Jan 17, 2019 20:37:48 GMT
Not football related - perhaps we need an off-topic forum? When did WalesOnline become so pro-Wales? They've been going on the attack for the last few weeks over lost jobs, infrastructure and so on. I can't imagine it'll be long before they're advocating Welsh independence if they keep it up. With the tone they're setting, would now be the right time for Plaid to start making an aggressive, "take back control" indy push? An aggressive Indy push by Plaid is long long overdue anyway... with the lack of credible opponents ( under-fire tories and unelectable labour) they should have targeted every seat in the assembly, as SNP did in Scotland... ah well, maybe with Adam Price as leader maybe they will push in now.. Needless to say we need a new strong Welsh media/press, because what we’ve got atm is pathetic
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Post by iot on Jan 17, 2019 20:52:46 GMT
Not football related - perhaps we need an off-topic forum? When did WalesOnline become so pro-Wales? They've been going on the attack for the last few weeks over lost jobs, infrastructure and so on. I can't imagine it'll be long before they're advocating Welsh independence if they keep it up. With the tone they're setting, would now be the right time for Plaid to start making an aggressive, "take back control" indy push? <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 11px; top: 101px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_90291339" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 510px; top: 101px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_73399903" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 11px; top: 257px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_53489110" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 510px; top: 257px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_81678031" scrolling="no"></iframe> An aggressive Indy push by Plaid is long long overdue anyway... with the lack of credible opponents ( under-fire tories and unelectable labour) they should have targeted every seat in the assembly, as SNP did in Scotland... ah well, maybe with Adam Price as leader maybe they will push in now.. Needless to say we need a new strong Welsh media/press, because what we’ve got atm is pathetic That last sentence is critical and without that changing, I can't see how the national movement can make any ground. It doesn't matter how effective the messaging is from Plaid if those messages aren't being received because of our complete lack of media.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 17, 2019 21:16:34 GMT
I remember maybe a month or so ago Wales Online said they were taking feedback on board on how to improve, presumably it amounted to less of "16 things you did in Llangrannog in the 90s!" and more actual reporting
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Post by pendragon on Jan 17, 2019 22:20:25 GMT
Looking at Scotland and the purported recent surge in Welsh nationalism over the last few years (particularly amongst the young, and also in traditionally English-speaking communities), my impression is that we are slowly, but increasingly moving towards a more pro-Wales agenda that might eventually evolve into a more pro-independence mantra (I will not be getting into the ethics of Brexit either way, but I do think there is potential for further Welsh devolution to become an indirect consequence of it). Even with Welsh Government (who are mostly made up of Welsh Labour), I'm noticing a gradual change in tone. There appears to be more focus on the Welsh language and preserving Welsh heritage in a way that might appeal to all sectors of Welsh society. There's also more focus on developing some semblance of a Welsh economy, improving transportation links (with the TfW scheme), and challenging for more devolved powers (with respect to the Criminal Justice System). There's certainly a diverging of ideals between the UK and the Welsh government, although I do think a lot of that is due to the fact that there is a Conservative government in Westminster, and a Welsh Labour party (that doesn't always see eye-to-eye with the Labour leadership in London), holding the reins in Cardiff. All the same, it seems to be having a bearing on the political situation.
What I will say is that I think further devolution and perhaps eventual independence, will be a gradual process in Wales, and will be more likely to succeed that way. The gung-ho approach seems to have backfired to a certain extent in Scotland, on the basis of the last general election.
Further gradual devolution (if successful), could give people the confidence to believe that we are capable of managing our own affairs effectively. Despite still being considered one of the poorer relations, Wales has reportedly seen more economic growth than any other region in the UK over the last few years.
On the subject of the Wales Online article, I will say that there was some mixed feelings about the development of the nuclear power site on Anglesey. Plaid had allegedly argued that it would have put paid to any hopes of independence for a number of decades due to the de-commissioning obligations involved. A number of other concerns, mostly environmental, were also raised. Even so, it's going to be a major blow for those employed by the contractors on the island.
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 18, 2019 8:51:57 GMT
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 10:19:29 GMT
There is indeed a movement to get people to get talking about Welsh Independence going on and indeed busting myths. The movement is mainly being led through Yes Cymru www.yes.cymru/ twitter.com/YesCymru www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=323967924444168&ref=br_rs and Welsh Football Fans For Independence twitter.com/indywalesfans www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1910219429042344 . I would advise any one to listen to 'Independence in your pocket' by Yes Cymru www.yes.cymru/independence and listen to economics expert Dr John Ball on Yes Cymru Radio soundcloud.com/radioyescymru/dr-john-ball-interview-on-radio-yes-cymru-18112018 . The movement is growing with Yes Cymru now having bigger following on Twitter than Welsh Cons and just a few thousand off Welsh Lab and not far away on Facebook of both. Welsh football fans group is also growing, we do walks on stadium at Wales games, which, when in Cardiff, starts at Womanby street via Canton and on to stadium, the last one was about 400 strong , Welsh football fans for indy have also, along with Yes Cymru, been taking part in the banners on bridges campaigns (went to my first last week and was stunned at the passing support with cars passing honking their horns and giving thumbs up), and have been attending Welsh football club games (no matter what league) (and just so you know, these are not hatred groups, do not hate English people, and are not opposed to Welsh teams playing in English league system, most of us agree that the English leagues are amazing). There are other pages worth checking like Nation Cymru twitter.com/NationCymru www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=979485022187968 , Indy Cymru twitter.com/IndyCymru www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1969420883115521&ref=br_rs , Swans Fans For Indy twitter.com/SwansForIndy www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1879428935498025&ref=br_rs and of course there are many Yes Cymru groups. In February, there is a concert in Cardiff called Yes Is More, starring Charlotte Church, Super Furry Animal Members , Barry Horns and more at the Tramshed Cardiff twitter.com/yesismorecymru , then in March there are walks/meet ups before Wales games (Welsh football fans also does regular meet ups in Cardiff, Swansea, Tredegar, Wrecsam, with plans for other places, to chat about Indy and Footy). In May there is a march in Cardiff organised by twitter.com/AUOBDemo. We are groups of people who are sick of the way things are and the way things have been for decades really. We are sick of Westminster and Cardiff govs. We believe that we can make huge impact and change things. The movement has on board all kinds of people, doesn't matter of gender, race, orientation, nationality. One the most amazing things ive found since being part of this is the amount of people not originally from this country who are embracing our language and culture, like English and Somalian people speaking fluent and supporting the cause. Hopefully some of you will have a real delve into the links I've posted above.
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 11:43:19 GMT
Oh and the other thing I forgot to mention is that there is now a party that has just formed, as an attempted alternative to Plaid called eingwlad.wales/ as well as Labour for an independent Wales twitter.com/Lab4IndyWales . Don't know if this helps people, but certainly think that an alternative is needed in order to keep Plaid on their toes.
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Post by welshiron on Jan 18, 2019 12:10:35 GMT
Plaid are struggling to get enough votes without splitting it.
Dont Think I will see independence in my life time but really hope I do
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Post by superunknown on Jan 18, 2019 12:58:32 GMT
As said above we desperately need a pro independence publication like Scotland do, e.g. The Scotsman and The National. It's good news that there seems to be a shift in WalesOnline as I usually associate it with tabloid garbage but have noticed the shifting tone myself.
I'm not sure another independence party will help at all. We really can't afford to split the vote as it is, we need to be unified and show that we can govern in Wales and not be plagued by infighting.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 18, 2019 13:08:04 GMT
News today that the Welsh language is no longer to be considered a "second language" in English-medium schools in Wales. All pupils will follow the same curriculum for the language from 2022 onwards, although English-medium pupils will not necessarily be required to meet the same standards.
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 13:13:23 GMT
As said above we desperately need a pro independence publication like Scotland do, e.g. The Scotsman and The National. It's good news that there seems to be a shift in WalesOnline as I usually associate it with tabloid garbage but have noticed the shifting tone myself. I'm not sure another independence party will help at all. We really can't afford to split the vote as it is, we need to be unified and show that we can govern in Wales and not be plagued by infighting. Reason I think an alternative is good is that Plaid have this habit of saying yes we are going for Indy etc and then fading where they don't talk about it for long periods of time. Where as now, with this movement the way it is, needs to be at fore front every time now imo. They need to be not just talking about it, but educating people on what the facts are, getting through to all demographics of people at every opportunity.
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 13:14:52 GMT
Plaid are struggling to get enough votes without splitting it. Dont Think I will see independence in my life time but really hope I do Thing is , some people don't vote Plaid for specific reasons, maybe they might be attracted to another party.
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 13:26:47 GMT
News today that the Welsh language is no longer to be considered a "second language" in English-medium schools in Wales. All pupils will follow the same curriculum for the language from 2022 onwards, although English-medium pupils will not necessarily be required to meet the same standards. Its great news, but I have to say, im always open to listening to where some say about areas the Welsh gov waste money on Welsh language education etc. Loads don't know about the online ways of learning for free, like Duolingo www.duolingo.com/ for instance, where over 1M have signed up to learn Welsh, and you can do it in your own time and pace etc, and you can get decent standard, as well as 'Say something in Welsh' where im hearing that some people are becoming fluent in 6 months. One recently told me that he now runs his own business based off that. I have been told by certain Welsh speaking groups the figures for amounts of people speaking fluent/learning is growing and they expect it to grow year on year. The language imo is a sellable commodity especially in an Independent Wales. They have been trying for centuries to kill our language, culture, Id etc, but as long as we sing the anthem we do, will never die.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 18, 2019 13:47:29 GMT
As has been the case with Scotland, the gung-ho approach doesn't seem to have worked (looking at the last General Election).
So, I think political parties in Wales need to be careful that they don't unneccessarily alienate potential future voters, who may already be "flirting" with the idea of independence. I think Plaid recognise this.
The goal will be to get more devolved powers first - taxation, energy, etc. From April onwards a portion of income tax on all earned incomes in Wales will be going straight to Welsh government (rather than the cauldron at Westminster). So, if people favour a gradual move to more powers leading to eventual independence, then we are moving in the right direction in my opinion.
As I've said previously, the contrast in governing styles and ideals between Westminster and Cardiff is also contributing to the shift in tone in Wales. One example of this might be the TfW subsidiary which is wholly-owned by Welsh Government and the new rail transport link system currently in development, so essentially a state-owned railway service that flies in the face of Westminster policy.
I agree about the potential to split the vote unfortunately, although a new movement or a new pressure group might be effective in exerting some influence over Plaid and Welsh Labour (in a similar manner to how UKIP did with the Conservative Government in 2015).
Ultimately, I think Brexit will also have the potential to offer further opportunities for more devolved powers.
As an aside, I agree with Robin's suggestion for a sub-forum within the main forum - at moderators' discretion of course!
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 15:13:52 GMT
Well you all got great view points, and all your thoughts and ideas are wanted, so hope to see you guys join the Welsh footy fans for indy of FB and Twitter. We are not affiliated to any party or pro/anti Brexit, just solely about Welsh Indy.
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 18, 2019 15:31:53 GMT
Not football related - perhaps we need an off-topic forum? When did WalesOnline become so pro-Wales? They've been going on the attack for the last few weeks over lost jobs, infrastructure and so on. I can't imagine it'll be long before they're advocating Welsh independence if they keep it up. With the tone they're setting, would now be the right time for Plaid to start making an aggressive, "take back control" indy push? A UKIP supporter came online the other day when confronted with the report about the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth rail link and said , why all the fuss, how many people would use it ?, about 12 ?, he said. lol. So what about people would travel from Swansea/Cardiff/Newport etc to Aberystwyth/N Wales and Visa versa ?, what about the tourism it could help with, the students etc. It could potentially bring huge tourism prospects. I wouldn't even like to think of the costs involved travelling to a lot of areas across Wales by train because of this. I don't catch train often, but was on Swansea to Cardiff train recently where there were Canadian tourists who were on board talking about their trip, where they were going from London to Scotland, then N England, over to Ireland then N Wales and hoping to do the complete coast of Wales, until of coarse they realised they couldn't get train covering that section and all the buses etc they had to catch because of it lol.
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Post by conwy10 on Jan 18, 2019 19:59:32 GMT
Can’t see Wales ever being close to independence even though I’m desperate for it, there’s too many wealthy retirees here now. How Wales can have Conservative and UKIP assembly members is beyond me. Obviously people are making their money and retiring in Wales. We’re even voting for Brexit for some strange reason.
I even fear if the UK collapsed after Brexit we’d be swallowed whole by England.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 18, 2019 23:26:12 GMT
That is always a distinct possibility, but I cannot see it happening.
The momentum in Wales is for more powers, not less. There's a noticeable contrast between Westminster and Cardiff on everything from public services (and their ownership), to social justice. Heck, even Welsh and UK Labour don't get on these days. The AMs and MPs of every political persuasion will not relinquish their powers and freedoms easily (along with the perks that come with them). And getting rid of an established, democratic process will be a tough task.
Conservatives and UKIP are in the minority here and though we do have a lot of retirees, it is the younger generations who will eventually hold most sway.
I might be wrong of course and even around five years ago, I'd have agreed with you but I'm quietly confident the push will still be for more devolved powers. Post-Brexit, we may all struggle economically (which is why a strong Welsh Government will be crucial in the coming years). I wonder therefore, whether the UK Government will have the time, money and resources to revert back to non-devolved centralised government. Detangling twenty years' worth of legislation and decommissioning democratic processes, with all the obligations, contracts etc entailed, will cost them a lot of time, money and effort that will urgently be required elsewhere.
I've said my peace on this topic now. I usually try to avoid debating politics on these threads and I must be doing everyone's head in, so I will give it a rest!
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Post by ontheroadagain on Jan 19, 2019 0:15:45 GMT
Not football related - perhaps we need an off-topic forum? When did WalesOnline become so pro-Wales? They've been going on the attack for the last few weeks over lost jobs, infrastructure and so on. I can't imagine it'll be long before they're advocating Welsh independence if they keep it up. With the tone they're setting, would now be the right time for Plaid to start making an aggressive, "take back control" indy push? I agree with your point regarding an official forum,but it would need more moderators. We wouldn't want the "lunatics to run the asylum" now would we. I have enjoyed this thread and shared it.
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Post by conwy10 on Jan 19, 2019 19:24:43 GMT
That is always a distinct possibility, but I cannot see it happening. The momentum in Wales is for more powers, not less. There's a noticeable contrast between Westminster and Cardiff on everything from public services (and their ownership), to social justice. Heck, even Welsh and UK Labour don't get on these days. The AMs and MPs of every political persuasion will not relinquish their powers and freedoms easily (along with the perks that come with them). And getting rid of an established, democratic process will be a tough task. Conservatives and UKIP are in the minority here and though we do have a lot of retirees, it is the younger generations who will eventually hold most sway. I might be wrong of course and even around five years ago, I'd have agreed with you but I'm quietly confident the push will still be for more devolved powers. Post-Brexit, we may all struggle economically (which is why a strong Welsh Government will be crucial in the coming years). I wonder therefore, whether the UK Government will have the time, money and resources to revert back to non-devolved centralised government. Detangling twenty years' worth of legislation and decommissioning democratic processes, with all the obligations, contracts etc entailed, will cost them a lot of time, money and effort that will urgently be required elsewhere. I've said my peace on this topic now. I usually try to avoid debating politics on these threads and I must be doing everyone's head in, so I will give it a rest! No not at all I respect hearing opposite points of view, find it enlightening and your post was well thought through. I’m not sure what it’s lile elsewhere, I’m basing this on my little corner of Wales, but there seems to be a lot of brain drain in our area. The younger generation don’t seem to want to work for the council or retail so go to Manchester, Liverpool and even London for a career. The younger population having lived in the cities and enjoyed a successful career most likely won’t want to see an independent Wales as they’ve benefitted from the union. The way I’m worrying about it post Brexit if there is a collapse and Scotland goes for independence to rejoin the EU, Northern Ireland have a possibility to join the Republic, then left would be England and Wales. The size of the countries is vast so would there be any reason not to merge us? Don’t know if anyone else gets this but when I say I support Welsh Independence people seem to automatically assume you want to go to war with England. The idea of a free trade union between 2 independent countries who value each other’s custom seems lost on them.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 19, 2019 23:54:12 GMT
That is always a distinct possibility, but I cannot see it happening. The momentum in Wales is for more powers, not less. There's a noticeable contrast between Westminster and Cardiff on everything from public services (and their ownership), to social justice. Heck, even Welsh and UK Labour don't get on these days. The AMs and MPs of every political persuasion will not relinquish their powers and freedoms easily (along with the perks that come with them). And getting rid of an established, democratic process will be a tough task. Conservatives and UKIP are in the minority here and though we do have a lot of retirees, it is the younger generations who will eventually hold most sway. I might be wrong of course and even around five years ago, I'd have agreed with you but I'm quietly confident the push will still be for more devolved powers. Post-Brexit, we may all struggle economically (which is why a strong Welsh Government will be crucial in the coming years). I wonder therefore, whether the UK Government will have the time, money and resources to revert back to non-devolved centralised government. Detangling twenty years' worth of legislation and decommissioning democratic processes, with all the obligations, contracts etc entailed, will cost them a lot of time, money and effort that will urgently be required elsewhere. I've said my peace on this topic now. I usually try to avoid debating politics on these threads and I must be doing everyone's head in, so I will give it a rest! No not at all I respect hearing opposite points of view, find it enlightening and your post was well thought through. I’m not sure what it’s lile elsewhere, I’m basing this on my little corner of Wales, but there seems to be a lot of brain drain in our area. The younger generation don’t seem to want to work for the council or retail so go to Manchester, Liverpool and even London for a career. The younger population having lived in the cities and enjoyed a successful career most likely won’t want to see an independent Wales as they’ve benefitted from the union. The way I’m worrying about it post Brexit if there is a collapse and Scotland goes for independence to rejoin the EU, Northern Ireland have a possibility to join the Republic, then left would be England and Wales. The size of the countries is vast so would there be any reason not to merge us? Don’t know if anyone else gets this but when I say I support Welsh Independence people seem to automatically assume you want to go to war with England. The idea of a free trade union between 2 independent countries who value each other’s custom seems lost on them. Thank you 😀 I'm one of those (former) people, who between the ages of 18 - 24 declared I was moving to one of the cities, never to return! The data on it is flawed apparently because a relatively high proportion of those young people return at a later date (particularly those who have been in higher education). Also, many young people in our area move to other parts of Wales, particularly Cardiff (meaning that those much needed skills don't always leave the country). Going back to Robin and Josey's original points about independence, my opinion is that political messages that focus on a "what is best for Wales" narrative, is potentially the most effective as it has the potential to target all sectors of Welsh society without unduly alienating those who might be gradually becoming more open to the idea of independence, but may still require some persuasion. That's why I truly believe as a country, we need more devolved powers first.
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Post by robin1864 on Jan 20, 2019 1:23:23 GMT
No not at all I respect hearing opposite points of view, find it enlightening and your post was well thought through. I’m not sure what it’s lile elsewhere, I’m basing this on my little corner of Wales, but there seems to be a lot of brain drain in our area. The younger generation don’t seem to want to work for the council or retail so go to Manchester, Liverpool and even London for a career. The younger population having lived in the cities and enjoyed a successful career most likely won’t want to see an independent Wales as they’ve benefitted from the union. The way I’m worrying about it post Brexit if there is a collapse and Scotland goes for independence to rejoin the EU, Northern Ireland have a possibility to join the Republic, then left would be England and Wales. The size of the countries is vast so would there be any reason not to merge us? Don’t know if anyone else gets this but when I say I support Welsh Independence people seem to automatically assume you want to go to war with England. The idea of a free trade union between 2 independent countries who value each other’s custom seems lost on them. Thank you 😀 I'm one of those (former) people, who between the ages of 18 - 24 declared I was moving to one of the cities, never to return! The data on it is flawed apparently because a relatively high proportion of those young people return at a later date (particularly those who have been in higher education). Also, many young people in our area move to other parts of Wales, particularly Cardiff (meaning that those much needed skills don't always leave the country). Going back to Robin and Josey's original points about independence, my opinion is that political messages that focus on a "what is best for Wales" narrative, is potentially the most effective as it has the potential to target all sectors of Welsh society without unduly alienating those who might be gradually becoming more open to the idea of independence, but may still require some persuasion. That's why I truly believe as a country, we need more devolved powers first. The problem with the "what's best for Wales" approach is it's been politely trotted by Plaid for years to no avail. Surely it can't hurt for them to adopt an aggressive and uneducated "TAKE BACK CONTROL, BOLLOCKS TO LONDON!" stance? It worked wonders for getting the Brexit vote, and could be the way of possibly engaging the 80-minute patriots from the more deprived areas of Wales who'd usually see Plaid as a Welsh-language pressure group full of beardy weirdos. Once the is ball rolling, you can then refine the message.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 20, 2019 1:34:21 GMT
That's what I mean when I say, a "Best for Wales" approach. Not necessarily an aggressive pro-independence stance (not at this point anyway), but an aggressive pro-Wales approach (along the lines of demanding more devolved powers, especially given the current climate).
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Post by derynglas on Jan 20, 2019 12:04:56 GMT
Plaids new leader Adam Price has a book out called Wales,the First and Final Colony. Under him Plaid has a seven steps to independance campaign to get independance in just over a decade. Although a cataclysmic brexit would certainly bring about an independant Scotland within a matter of months and would possibly strengthen the independance debate in Wales and possibly hasten it, nevertheless Plaid,(as is the SNP) is in favour of a second vote and the possibility of stopping the exit from europe which basaically is a right wing English nationalist fantasy. So I hop they succeed in stopping Brexit which would be a particular disaster for Wales,less so for Scotland as they could avoid it and stay in anyway.But hopefully Wales and Scotland will move towards independance in the long run.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 20, 2019 19:10:56 GMT
According to Channel 4, Brexit has made Scottish independence 69% more likely, a united Ireland 60% more likely and an independent Wales 36% more likely
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Post by joseywales37 on Jan 21, 2019 1:23:55 GMT
According to Channel 4, Brexit has made Scottish independence 69% more likely, a united Ireland 60% more likely and an independent Wales 36% more likely Another thing that mainstream media is not telling people is tat apparent recent polls are suggesting that support for Welsh in dy is nearing 25%, after being around 10/11% 2 years ago. One of the biggest problems we have is a ceratin amount of people who are easily led, and believe every thing they see on BBC news etc. As much as I don't like Nick Clegg, he recently did a video in Ebbw Vale (on YouTube), where he was walking around asking certain people why they voted the way they did on EU, where some where saying things like 'because of immigration' etc, and when they were faced with, well if I told you that immigration only affects 2% of the area you live, they appeared surprised. But whether they were right or wrong, it proves that they didn't come to this conclusion themselves, they heard it somewhere and went with it. Myself personally I am sat on fence about EU as I cant see that Wales would get a good deal if negotiated on behalf of, by Westminster, I am of the opinion that Wales will only get best out of EU as an Indy nation, should the people so want to vote for it. The growing percentage imo is mainly to do with more people educating themselves online, seeing poverty/hidden poverty/homelessness grow in front of their own eyes, job losses coming thick and fast etc. even the staunchest of people are growing tired of all of this. The Severn Bridge renaming, no matter how small a deal in some minds, was a big middle finger by the governments, to 40,000, when they were told they would not be listened to anyway. Also, the mud protest, where people where again, a large amount of people were just ignored, with some Labour AMs telling their constituents they were voting against, then at last minute, voted the other way. During this time, myself and a fellow members of Welsh Football Fans For Independence and other concerned people, emailed our local AMs, especially after the Labour AM for Swansea called people daft for having concerns apparently. Turns out, a generic email was sent out to every one. Makes you wonder how many times this happens, as imo it makes it seem like they haven't bothered to take note of constituents concerns. Yes, bad things are happening to many in all parts of 'UK', but things are exacerbated to a large extent in Wales because we officially have the worst NHS in UK, both funding wise and the way it is run. We have some of the worst poverty/homeless per square mile. We have the worst transport infrastructure in 'UK', and this has been for decades, especially after Beeching report, lots of our tourism is affected beyond belief because of it, that rail link between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth would imo be huge for us if restored as it would link most of our tourism spots together in a way that makes it easier and more interesting for tourist, i.e Cardiff, Gower,Pembrokeshire to Snowdonia would be majorly attractive to tourists. Our job losses are more often not recovered from, with replacement jobs not coming in to areas I can vouch for this being a carer for my sick partner, we had to take drastic measures a few years back in order to find her the life saving health care she needed, by travelling to London. They told us she potentially could have died had it been left to Welsh NHS care. And recently we were told in confidence by some one in NHS in Wales that the cities of Liverpool/Manchester get more funding than the whole of Wales lol. I also get to help out with a charity called Community furniture aid now and then, this charity helps lots of different people who suffer from homelessness/hidden poverty etc, They help whole families, vulnerable men, women and children. It is based in Pontycymmer near Bridgend. The shocking thing here is that in 4 years they have helped over 400 cases in a 20 mile radius, which is shocking. They are regularly asked to help other areas, but they cant because they are only small and don't have the man power or the time. And another shocking fact is, some of the people they are asked to help are forces veterans. About 2 years ago, I was working as a delivery driver, delivering from Swansea, down to Milford Haven in Pembrokeshire. I was working for a sub contractor. I ended up losing the job due to the huge knock on effects of people losing theirs mainly in Pembrokeshire. The 'UK' and Welsh govs failed to save the refinery, which resulted in everyone there losing their jobs. Within 6 months, half of the shops in the town had gone out of business. On my travels, I got to talk to many businesses there, you would not believe the amounts who were saying that their companies were relying on the promised building works proposed for Swansea, like Tidal Lagoon and new city centre lol. Wales is the poorest region of Northern Europe, and we are one of I think only two European countries with out electrified rail, the other being Albania I'm told. Very soon, Swansea as a city will become the only city in this part of Europe with out electrified rail. Thing is, imo it doesn't have to be like this. Wales is quite unique in many ways. We provide, I think, its something like 60% of energy , like electricity of 'UK' (and have a guess what lots of modes of transport will be running off soon), we provide huge amounts of water, We provide huge amounts of meat and veg (we are famous for the sheep jokes for a reason, not that reason lol). According to Terry Matthews, Pembrokeshire is potentially leading area for Internet and Tech possibilities, I think due to some cable that comes up from under sea. Countries with similar or smaller populations to us are proving that small countries can be and indeed are being very successful, so when you think of where we are placed on the map in Europe, we are very well placed indeed. We are close to all countries in 'UK' and Ireland and mainland Europe. This is with out fat that Milford Haven waterway is one of best natural ports anywhere. We have a lot to offer and a lot to gain imo.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 21, 2019 12:35:20 GMT
That's why I think more devolved powers is paramount and with the prospect of Brexit, it needs to be treated as a matter of urgency. It's ridiculous that we are a viewed as a developed "third" nation in spite of the potential at our disposal. We have a semi-nationalised rail service in Wales with a programme in place to improve, update and modify the rail networks across the country - so that's a start. But it will take a long time to realise its full potential. We also need to be looking at making better use of, and economising our resources (and yes, I'm talking about water rates and other natural resources). More awareness needs to be raised of this. Quality of life needs to trump union interests.
Furthermore, people might not agree with me on this, but I question why we constantly look to Scotland as a template and guidance for all matters independence-related. Why? We might share an inherently similar culture and values, but it seems we are terrified of trying anything ourselves without looking to see whether Scotland has done it first. The attitude seems to be to try to emulate them, or look to them as a precedent. As a country, Wales needs to start doing things by itself and recognise that the approach adopted in Scotland may not work here for example.
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 21, 2019 12:38:45 GMT
That's why I think more devolved powers is paramount and with the prospect of Brexit, it needs to be treated as a matter of urgency. It's ridiculous that we are a viewed as a developed "third" nation in spite of the potential at our disposal. We have a semi-nationalised rail service in Wales with a programme in place to improve, update and modify the rail networks across the country - so that's a start. But it will take a long time to realise its full potential. We also need to be looking at making better use of, and economising our resources (and yes, I'm talking about water rates and other natural resources). More awareness needs to be raised of this. Quality of life needs to trump union interests. Furthermore, people might not agree with me on this, but I question why we constantly look to Scotland as a template and guidance for all matters independence-related. Why? We might share an inherently similar culture and values, but it seems we are terrified of trying anything ourselves without looking to see whether Scotland has done it first. The attitude seems to be to try to emulate them, or look to them as a precedent. As a country, Wales needs to start doing things by itself and recognise that the approach adopted in Scotland may not work here for example. A pity that Welsh Labour handed back some powers then. Corbyn called it a power grab in Scotland whilst Drakeford/Jones happily handed them over in Wales.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 21, 2019 12:57:26 GMT
If you are referring to the Wales and Brexit bills, then I agree, although they had something of the "stick and carrot" about them, so a poisoned chalice in some respects.
Interesting to note that Drakeford and the rest of his party have since voted against the UK Government on Brexit-related issues though.
I still think that Brexit (if it happens) will offer further opportunities for devolved powers.
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