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Post by hooky on Jan 23, 2023 9:58:45 GMT
Well said. I also don't understand this idea some people have, that we should be somehow convincing players to commit to us when they don't have particularly strong feelings about us. Why would we want a player turning out for us who regrets committing to us in the end? Would much rather a player with less quality and 1000% commitment I think too many people forget that the reason we secured Brooks, Ampadu, Brennan & Mepham wasn't by being pushy. It was by allowing them to experience other set ups and encouraging them to make a free choice once they'd received all necessary information they needed to make a decision. Pushing players would make us look needy, and if we are a good choice and confident country why would we do something that could jeopardise that such as acting needy and desperate I absolutely agree we shouldn’t force or have to convince anyone. Let’s ask ourselves why these players are either thinking of switching or don’t want to play for our youth teams. What exactly is wrong? It’s not just these players there are others. That is exactly my point! You don't try to brainwash someone - but I do think that you reach out to Popov, show him he is valued and there is a pathway to the first team if he continues to progress and establish what is attractive about Bulgaria and what he has been promised. There is nothing wrong with being proactive like that rather than shrug your shoulders and say if he wants to go he wants to go. He is still a kid and they can be influenced by soft promises that amount to little. Maybe he feels Wales are not invested in him enough. I think he is different to the other cases as he is Welsh born and bred. As stated we don't know his personal story - well hey how about someone from the FAW find out his story and how he feels about both countries and address any concerns he may have if relevant! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 23, 2023 11:12:42 GMT
We don't even know if he is considering Bulgaria. You're getting quite worked up, and then generalising it to possibly being a wider issue based on a Bulgarian tabloid saying they are pursuing him
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 23, 2023 11:45:39 GMT
I absolutely agree we shouldn’t force or have to convince anyone. Let’s ask ourselves why these players are either thinking of switching or don’t want to play for our youth teams. What exactly is wrong? It’s not just these players there are others. That is exactly my point! You don't try to brainwash someone - but I do think that you reach out to Popov, show him he is valued and there is a pathway to the first team if he continues to progress and establish what is attractive about Bulgaria and what he has been promised. There is nothing wrong with being proactive like that rather than shrug your shoulders and say if he wants to go he wants to go. He is still a kid and they can be influenced by soft promises that amount to little. Maybe he feels Wales are not invested in him enough. I think he is different to the other cases as he is Welsh born and bred. As stated we don't know his personal story - well hey how about someone from the FAW find out his story and how he feels about both countries and address any concerns he may have if relevant! What on earth are you basing the assumption that we aren’t discussing this with him on? With all the work we are doing to unearth players from all over the place, inviting them to camps, incorporating them into the system and the Welsh way, it’s hard to believe that we’d just ‘shrug our shoulders’ and let one of our rated prospects go without any attempt to keep him. |
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 23, 2023 11:46:22 GMT
Poor Omari, he gets his own thread and hasn’t even been mentioned in about the last 89% of it, haha
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Post by hooky on Jan 23, 2023 13:49:37 GMT
That is exactly my point! You don't try to brainwash someone - but I do think that you reach out to Popov, show him he is valued and there is a pathway to the first team if he continues to progress and establish what is attractive about Bulgaria and what he has been promised. There is nothing wrong with being proactive like that rather than shrug your shoulders and say if he wants to go he wants to go. He is still a kid and they can be influenced by soft promises that amount to little. Maybe he feels Wales are not invested in him enough. I think he is different to the other cases as he is Welsh born and bred. As stated we don't know his personal story - well hey how about someone from the FAW find out his story and how he feels about both countries and address any concerns he may have if relevant! What on earth are you basing the assumption that we aren’t discussing this with him on? With all the work we are doing to unearth players from all over the place, inviting them to camps, incorporating them into the system and the Welsh way, it’s hard to believe that we’d just ‘shrug our shoulders’ and let one of our rated prospects go without any attempt to keep him. Thanks for that. I have no idea how they deal with things like this. I was just saying I hope someone follows up with him and it seems you know that this is happening and so that is excellent! |
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Post by welshrover on Jan 23, 2023 15:01:38 GMT
Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is a question not an opinion.
However, thinking out loud does anyone think the drive by the FAW to promote the Welsh language may be swaying the minds of some young players.
Whilst I realise myself and a good few on here support the language and will be pleased that the FAW are doing their bit, it may be a bit intimidating to a dual qualified or Anglo who may have been raised in a predominantly English speaking household / neighborhood.
I don't know, could it be a factor?
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 23, 2023 15:09:36 GMT
What on earth are you basing the assumption that we aren’t discussing this with him on? With all the work we are doing to unearth players from all over the place, inviting them to camps, incorporating them into the system and the Welsh way, it’s hard to believe that we’d just ‘shrug our shoulders’ and let one of our rated prospects go without any attempt to keep him. Thanks for that. I have no idea how they deal with things like this. I was just saying I hope someone follows up with him and it seems you know that this is happening and so that is excellent! I haven’t said that I know it’s happening, I was just wondering why you presumed it wasn’t. |
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Post by hooky on Jan 23, 2023 15:37:34 GMT
Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is a question not an opinion. However, thinking out loud does anyone think the drive by the FAW to promote the Welsh language may be swaying the minds of some young players. Whilst I realise myself and a good few on here support the language and will be pleased that the FAW are doing their bit, it may be a bit intimidating to a dual qualified or Anglo who may have been raised in a predominantly English speaking household / neighborhood. I don't know, could it be a factor? I thought the same around the time of the world cup build up and release of the video to our song. I did not say anything as I knew I would get immediately attached! It just felt a little down your throats. Why would an English born and bred player with one Welsh grandparent feel that sense of injustice and want to buy into all of that? I love the Welsh identity and all the great FAW and fans initiatives but don't agree with political agendas being rammed down people's throat through a sport. Don't forget Bale was attacked on this forum for accepting an honour for goodness sake. South Wales is very different to North Wales and the culture of someone brought up in England is very different to someone brought up in Wales. While we should unite around an identity and common purpose, we should respect our differences and leave politics out of sport. I love the crowd singing Welsh songs and the fans are doing our country incredibly proud, but I do think we are at the limit of where we take things. If doing well at football gives us a sense of national pride and identity and help us get the confidence to be independent then that's great - we can follow Ireland's economic example to make it work! However, lets just avoid excluding people who love and want to contribute to the team as much as us. As we have established on this thread - identity is so, so complicated! |
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Post by evans1282 on Jan 23, 2023 18:02:00 GMT
I always think when anyone says they love something followed by a "but" anything before the but is either a lie or BS,call the criticism of Bale accepting the honour political, no argument ,but haven't we got past the ignorance S Wales was infamous for regarding the language,I've disagreed with countless numbers of your posts on football grounds ,I do find you overly negative ,this is different,the language only divides those that want to use it in that way, I could placate and say some BS like, I understand where you're coming from ,but honestly, I might have a decade ago,now this nonsense sounds prehistoric.
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Post by hooky on Jan 23, 2023 18:29:31 GMT
Its a forum to discuss not abuse. I am proud of the North, West, East and the South of Wales - Rush was my first Welsh hero! I am proud of every success in our country. I have watched every single football and rugby game involving Wales (male and female) when I am able. I am a patriot but not a nationalist. I have every right to reply to another post on a matter and I did it as I did not want them to get attacked, without knowing someone else had the same concern - note it was not an opinion but a concern. I think that is called democracy. I am not attacking someone else's beliefs. Maybe you just want to hear the echo of your own views but people are allowed other opinions or to question things and all of us, myself included, should keep an open mind.
Glad you read my football posts. So you saw how I highlighted how special Bale and Ramsey were right at the start, the early shout out for Brennan early in his career, how concerned I was about Page's selections / lack of any challenge going into the World Cup, the concern about playing 3 injured players and the lack of energy, etc. I think I get some things right and some things wrong and read and consider everyone's opinion, but hey if you are 100% correct with anything and everything then maybe you should manage Wales at football and the country!
Of course maybe my contributions are rubbish or annoying but everyone has the right to ignore them / not read them!
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Post by welshwhite on Jan 23, 2023 18:49:03 GMT
"Cough"
Getting back to the matter of young Omari. Isn't this the inversion of the argument we've used for so long to justify the inclusion of Anglos in our squads ? That culture and heritage is more important than just the place you happened to plop out on this planet. With one or two exceptions that policy has seen utterly committed individuals, some of whom have achieved legendary status in Welsh footballing history. I always love these type of discussions, I was born and brought up in the north west of England but would never consider myself English, I was always Dai to my family and so later to friends growing up.
Omari may feel the same pull, Popov too. To be enveloped in the culture of your forefathers is such a strong bond, and maybe in a way only we exiles understand. It might instill a sense of pride in these lads growing up amongst a peer group that don't display the same relative cultural identify.
This may not in truth be an inherent problem with the way the age groups are supported to represent Cymru, but simply that these lads have thought long and hard about recognising and respecting their cultural identity and despite the fact the Bulgaria or Jamaica may not be world beaters atm but that's where their heart lies. We can't castigate them, or Campbell, or potentially Harris, if they just don't feel Welsh enough. We've made that mistake before. I'd rather take an Ashley Williams, or Joniesta any day over a Dummett or Thatcher.
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Post by insertname on Jan 23, 2023 18:58:42 GMT
My thoughts exactly. There is a complete lack of appreciation for the complexities of nationality and it’s somewhat ironic that this is becoming such a major discussion on the forum of the football team of a country where almost half of the most recent squad was not born in that country.
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Post by evans1282 on Jan 23, 2023 19:02:31 GMT
I always think when anyone says they love something followed by a "but" anything before the but is either a lie or BS,call the criticism of Bale accepting the honour political, no argument ,but haven't we got past the ignorance S Wales was infamous for regarding the language,I've disagreed with countless numbers of your posts on football grounds ,I do find you overly negative ,this is different,the language only divides those that want to use it in that way, I could placate and say some BS like, I understand where you're coming from ,but honestly, I might have a decade ago,now this nonsense sounds prehistoric. Its a forum to discuss not abuse. I am proud of the North, West, East and the South of Wales - Rush was my first Welsh hero! I am proud of every success in our country. I have watched every single football and rugby game involving Wales (male and female) when I am able. I am a patriot but not a nationalist. I have every right to reply to another post on a matter and I did it as I did not want them to get attacked, without knowing someone else had the same concern - note it was not an opinion but a concern. I think that is called democracy. I am not attacking someone else's beliefs. Maybe you just want to hear the echo of your own views but people are allowed other opinions or to question things and all of us, myself included, should keep an open mind. Glad you read my football posts. So you saw how I highlighted how special Bale and Ramsey were right at the start, the early shout out for Brennan early in his career, how concerned I was about Page's selections / lack of any challenge going into the World Cup, the concern about playing 3 injured players and the lack of energy, etc. I think I get some things right and some things wrong and read and consider everyone's opinion, but hey if you are 100% correct with anything and everything then maybe you should manage Wales at football and the country! Of course maybe my contributions are rubbish or annoying but everyone has the right to ignore them / not read them! I called what you said either a lie or bs,hardly life changing abuse ffs,thin skin or did I touch a nerve?No point continuing this particular point called you out ,end of in my opinion ,showed what type of person you are regarding the language, no need for further comment. |
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Post by hooky on Jan 23, 2023 19:06:20 GMT
Anyway - being positive - we can at least reflect on what a great reputation our football supporters and the FAW currently have. Contrast that with what is going on with the rugby - two lead stories on the WRU reflect horribly on our country. Hope they clean up their governance and organisation - I guess they could take a few lessons from the FAW in respect to that.
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Post by dragonsoccer on Jan 23, 2023 19:25:21 GMT
Apologies for the information that came through about OB/ last week
His father is born wales (Newport)
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Post by iot on Jan 23, 2023 21:22:05 GMT
There's a bit more info here from the link ds posted (thanks for all the work, as ever!): 'I've got a very mixed family background. I currently play for Wales under-18s as my dad was born there and moved to London when he was a teenager, but I also qualify for Barbados and Jamaica through my grandparents, as well as England.' That's it. Doesn't sound like the strongest of links. At face value, it sounds like he's with us for now, but is proud of his mixed background and might not be particularly wedded to any specific country. I wouldn't disagree with people saying that we should attempt to 'woo' these types of players, but I'm sure the youth staff already do that. www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-omari-benjamin |
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Post by insertname on Jan 24, 2023 0:33:03 GMT
“I currently play for … but I also qualify for ….”
That’s the point when I start to get annoyed. If he had suddenly had some sort of change of heart in how he identifies then fair enough but I hate this sense that people (not necessarily this guy, more in general) sit around and play for one international set up while trying to court the interest of another. Just make a choice ffs and commit to it. It’s so wishy washy and reminiscent of club football and international football should really be about a strong sense of national identity, that’s the whole point, as opposed to what is best for your career or how English/German/Botswanian you feel that particular week.
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Post by rangers15 on Jan 24, 2023 12:19:54 GMT
I get where you're coming from, but nationality is so much more complex now than ever before.
and for some choosing the country you'll play for is a massive decision, and a really tough one to make at a young age (especially when you are eligible for several countries).
If England come calling and he wants to play for them more than us, then fair enough (disappointing from a fans point of view obviously).
i must admit it does get more unsettling when players get full international honours (Rice/Grealish for example) and then change countries. but at youth level i think its more understandable.
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Post by iot on Jan 24, 2023 12:24:42 GMT
It doesn't bother me that much tbh. There is no arbiter on whether people have a sufficiently strong national identity. Some people don't have a particularly strong national identity regardless of whether they're dual qualified or not. Some dual nationals' overriding identity may be pride in their mixed heritage. You can take your cynical view, that the player is just touting himself and holding out for a better offer - which could be entirely accurate. On the other hand, he might just not be particularly wedded to any of the nations he qualifies for. I wouldn't want that to disbar him from ever playing for us if he does eventually make that choice.
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Post by insertname on Jan 24, 2023 15:02:11 GMT
It’s more the Grealish’s and Rice’s that I think of mainly, but it’s also the wording that stuck out in this case. “Currently….but also….”. I just don’t like the sort of wording that indicates a flexible approach to nationality as people should surely have some sort of conviction to heritage, even at a young age. I’d never complain at someone switching through conviction but switching because they have no conviction…just ugh.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 24, 2023 15:04:46 GMT
Just so it's out there on the language comments. Us having a strong identity as an organisation/team will do a lot more for us in attracting dual-qualified players than it would if we marketed ourselves as an off-brand England
All of our squad/staff speak English, everyone is welcomed no matter whether they speak Welsh or not. The fact that we sing a few songs in Welsh, and actively promote a language that has had an insane amount of oppression, isn't going to scare anyone away
Just look at all of our dual-qualifieds joining in with Yma o Hyd when we qualified ffs!
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Post by insertname on Jan 24, 2023 15:08:22 GMT
“I currently play for … but I also qualify for ….” That’s the point when I start to get annoyed. If he had suddenly had some sort of change of heart in how he identifies then fair enough but I hate this sense that people (not necessarily this guy, more in general) sit around and play for one international set up while trying to court the interest of another. Just make a choice ffs and commit to it. It’s so wishy washy and reminiscent of club football and international football should really be about a strong sense of national identity, that’s the whole point, as opposed to what is best for your career or how English/German/Botswanian you feel that particular week. It doesn't bother me that much tbh. There is no arbiter on whether people have a sufficiently strong national identity. Some people don't have a particularly strong national identity regardless of whether they're dual qualified or not. Some dual nationals' overriding identity may be pride in their mixed heritage. You can take your cynical view, that the player is just touting himself and holding out for a better offer - which could be entirely accurate. On the other hand, he might just not be particularly wedded to any of the nations he qualifies for. I wouldn't want that to disbar him from ever playing for us if he does eventually make that choice. Yeah I’m not trying to speculate on this particular case, just speak more generally but the phrasing itself does bring to mind the mercenary aspects that could be utilised in international football and for me it’s against the ethos of what international football is. So for me I guess a flexible attitude to nationality is against the ethos of international football and I just can’t imagine what it’s like to have a flexible attitude to nationality as whilst I could have qualified for 4 national sides I would only have represented 1 because of the influences in my family. I don’t expect everyone else to have had the same thing but surely people know which way they skew if they had to choose? Obviously they either don’t, or they do but they are being opportunistic and either way it’s mind-blowing (to me!) |
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Post by mortillsy on Jan 31, 2023 19:04:34 GMT
On one hand I want to say why are you all stressing about a 16 year old we hadn’t heard of two weeks ago who probably won’t be as good as the hype (Like so many the next big thing youngsters)playing for another country ? But on the other he’s switching, Luke Harris pulled out of the stand by squad for the World Cup, Popov might switch , chem campbell can’t be arsed, Kyle John is apparently eligible for us yet had no interest in the under 21s, Rusheda chose his parents county with no interest in playing for our under 19s, there’s a few more examples. Something is wrong in our youth system Rushesha has played for the u19’s and u20’s! He must have had some level of interest. Has he chosen Zimbabwe? He was born there any travels back yearly, so I wouldn’t hold it against him. Seems really unlucky with injury and has definitely missed out on several youth camps over the last couple of years. |
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Post by marsvolta on May 20, 2024 21:01:35 GMT
Released by Arsenal today.
Has had a trial at Everton.
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Post by CrackityJones on Jul 2, 2024 13:33:23 GMT
Signed a three year deal at Everton
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Post by fiveattheback on Jul 2, 2024 22:00:45 GMT
Must have impressed on trial, hopefully he kicks on
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