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Post by surge on Jun 13, 2024 16:39:00 GMT
The reaction to Page on social media is way OTT and lacking balance or perspective. However, when I think of Page continuing as Cymru manager I feel uninspired. He's done a decent job overall, better than I expected to be honest, but the key question here is "is Page the best manager realistically available to us?" I think the answer, assuming Osian wants the job, is no. We should establish Osian's availability and take things from there. Appointing Osian is a greater risk than a lot of fans make out because his exact role with Como is very sketchy, and beyond that he has no professional managerial experience. There's also a risk that he doesn't bring new ideas to the fold, given his lengthy prior involvement (and let's not forget our terrible form when he left the Welsh set up under Giggs in the first place). That said, we're not going to have access to a proven, tactically astute manager with a League 1 budget and so we'll need to take a risk with someone. Carrying on with Page is also a big risk, given our failure to qualify last time, the increased difficulty to qualify this time, the inconsistency in performances and the fact that fans have turned on him. So on balance, I'd probably look to make the change if Osian's interested. Cooper would be the best choice, but I don't think he'd want it. As unpopular as they would be with many, I think it would be worth exploring Bellamy and Jones too. Aside from the suggestion of Jones, I think this is something I largely agree with. It's a big 2 years coming up, there are some problems with no easy fixes whoever is in charge and changing manager or sticking with Page carries risk. I am now open to seeing what else is out there and who has best plan/best chance of exercising their plan going forward. I do think a Keiran McKenna could probably get more out of this squad than Page but we're probably comparisons with League One Ipswich for monetary reward (on flip side, also for potential for rocket to be strapped to career path) so ... Eric Ramsey might see us as a step back into mainstream UK football in 2 years? |
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Post by iot on Jun 13, 2024 17:28:12 GMT
Appointing Osian is a greater risk than a lot of fans make out because his exact role with Como is very sketchy, and beyond that he has no professional managerial experience. There's also a risk that he doesn't bring new ideas to the fold, given his lengthy prior involvement (and let's not forget our terrible form when he left the Welsh set up under Giggs in the first place). That said, we're not going to have access to a proven, tactically astute manager with a League 1 budget and so we'll need to take a risk with someone. Carrying on with Page is also a big risk, given our failure to qualify last time, the increased difficulty to qualify this time, the inconsistency in performances and the fact that fans have turned on him. So on balance, I'd probably look to make the change if Osian's interested. Cooper would be the best choice, but I don't think he'd want it. As unpopular as they would be with many, I think it would be worth exploring Bellamy and Jones too. To balance that out Osian has experience in an international set up at the top level and Cooper hasn't. Surely thats more relevant. Also what experience does Bellamy have? Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff. The only real bad point he has is that Crystal Palace didn't work out (although I thought they played some decent stuff). I think that "hasn't been a manager" will always be a stick to beat him with. He has had success follow him around though. Even if he's just an incredibly lucky guy with the roles he chooses I think we need a little bit of luck. Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about? |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 13, 2024 18:28:06 GMT
To balance that out Osian has experience in an international set up at the top level and Cooper hasn't. Surely thats more relevant. Also what experience does Bellamy have? Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff. The only real bad point he has is that Crystal Palace didn't work out (although I thought they played some decent stuff). I think that "hasn't been a manager" will always be a stick to beat him with. He has had success follow him around though. Even if he's just an incredibly lucky guy with the roles he chooses I think we need a little bit of luck. Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about? Although you make a number of valid points I think you're missing the overarching point here - which is that Osian's track record is one of serial successes. You can also add in the fact that he's responsible for our highly esteemed coach educator coach, which has attracted very high calibre students, not least Arteta. Does that prove he would be a success as Cymru manager? No, but I think there's enough on his CV to suggest that he's got a lot of qualities. There's also a subjective element. When he speaks as a pundit he carries a lot of gravitas. He comes across as measured and authoritative. Page in contrast does not give that impression. He comes across as a lower league manager. I hope you're not suggesting we should consider Nathan Jones. The guy who burnt (yes. burnt) the table tennis table when he took over at one of his club sides because of the impact it had on team morale. A sane person would have been content with donating it to the nearest youth club. But not Nathan... |
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Post by rob on Jun 13, 2024 18:36:32 GMT
The question fans and the FAW should ask themselves really is if the job was was up for grabs now, would Rob Page be a genuine contender? Yes some fans do feel entitled and expectations are higher than they were, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t always strive to have the best person in charge. Can anyone really say, hand on heart, that he's the best man for the job or is it just a case of defending him out of not wanting to rock the boat and see a decent bloke sacked? Settling for the hassle free option isn't what 'together stronger' is about surely? The punters deserve better than that. We’ll never have the strongest squad but that doesn’t mean the coaching/tactics should be allowed to lag behind too. (In fact it places even more emphasis on the one factor we can control, which is the coaching, being spot on without a Gareth Bale to save our bacon). Well coached but less talented squads have always punched above their weight. My thoughts exactly-cannot realistically see Page managing above L2 level again if he leaves Wales.He is not proven at L2 level even.Also Jordan James aside has not brought new blood into the side-10 of the Poland side were in Euro 21. Cytuno yn llwyr Gary. |
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Post by iot on Jun 13, 2024 20:34:58 GMT
Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about? Although you make a number of valid points I think you're missing the overarching point here - which is that Osian's track record is one of serial successes. You can also add in the fact that he's responsible for our highly esteemed coach educator coach, which has attracted very high calibre students, not least Arteta. Does that prove he would be a success as Cymru manager? No, but I think there's enough on his CV to suggest that he's got a lot of qualities. There's also a subjective element. When he speaks as a pundit he carries a lot of gravitas. He comes across as measured and authoritative. Page in contrast does not give that impression. He comes across as a lower league manager. I hope you're not suggesting we should consider Nathan Jones. The guy who burnt (yes. burnt) the table tennis table when he took over at one of his club sides because of the impact it had on team morale. A sane person would have been content with donating it to the nearest youth club. But not Nathan... No I haven't missed the overarching point, I agree with those successes that you point towards which is why I'd be happy to see us take a punt on him. Just trying to provide a bit of a counterargument because almost every Welsh fan seems to think Osian should be a no brainer given his role as a tactical mastermind under Coleman and successes at Morocco and Como, but I think a lot of that is based on a series of assumptions and misinformation. Yeah Nathan Jones is certainly an eccentric and controversial character, but also has a bit of an x factor about him. I accept he's now considered more of a joke than anything, but he did an extraordinary job at Luton - particularly in his first stint, so he's shown that he is capable. |
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Post by talyfan on Jun 13, 2024 20:47:51 GMT
Just to note our coach education system at the time of when Osian was overseeing it not sure if still the case now, I think more than anything else of why it was so popular with ex-players is due to the fact it's a lot quicker to complete. So they could get higher profile jobs quicker.
Most high profile coaches like Henry etc. got fast tracked.
I remember doing my C license and more or less you could start your B license straight after if timings were right.
Not saying their coach education system was bad but less rigorous compared to likes of England for instance. And why you tend to see a lot of ex-players with no affiliation to Wales go via the FAW pathway.
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Post by talyfan on Jun 13, 2024 20:53:25 GMT
Don't think Cooper is remotely realistic he can command a much higher salary elsewhere.
I reckon we'd have to take a punt on a complete unknown quantity someone of a lesser profile.
Chris Davies whose just joined Birmingham for instance someone of that ilk.
The best time to get Jones was when he left Southampton. Not sure we'd be able to get him now unless he got sacked and in that case would we want him?
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 13, 2024 21:14:44 GMT
Just to note our coach education system at the time of when Osian was overseeing it not sure if still the case now, I think more than anything else of why it was so popular with ex-players is due to the fact it's a lot quicker to complete. So they could get higher profile jobs quicker. Most high profile coaches like Henry etc. got fast tracked. I remember doing my C license and more or less you could start your B license straight after if timings were right. Not saying their coach education system was bad but less rigorous compared to likes of England for instance. And why you tend to see a lot of ex-players with no affiliation to Wales go via the FAW pathway. I think you do the Welsh system a disservice. I have seen several quotes lauding the mentoring system of the FAW course. I haven't seen any suggestion it's in any way inferior to the English equivalent. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 13, 2024 21:21:17 GMT
Although you make a number of valid points I think you're missing the overarching point here - which is that Osian's track record is one of serial successes. You can also add in the fact that he's responsible for our highly esteemed coach educator coach, which has attracted very high calibre students, not least Arteta. Does that prove he would be a success as Cymru manager? No, but I think there's enough on his CV to suggest that he's got a lot of qualities. There's also a subjective element. When he speaks as a pundit he carries a lot of gravitas. He comes across as measured and authoritative. Page in contrast does not give that impression. He comes across as a lower league manager. I hope you're not suggesting we should consider Nathan Jones. The guy who burnt (yes. burnt) the table tennis table when he took over at one of his club sides because of the impact it had on team morale. A sane person would have been content with donating it to the nearest youth club. But not Nathan... No I haven't missed the overarching point, I agree with those successes that you point towards which is why I'd be happy to see us take a punt on him. Just trying to provide a bit of a counterargument because almost every Welsh fan seems to think Osian should be a no brainer given his role as a tactical mastermind under Coleman and successes at Morocco and Como, but I think a lot of that is based on a series of assumptions and misinformation. Yeah Nathan Jones is certainly an eccentric and controversial character, but also has a bit of an x factor about him. I accept he's now considered more of a joke than anything, but he did an extraordinary job at Luton - particularly in his first stint, so he's shown that he is capable. Yes, it's impossible to be sure of Osian's managerial abilities, and I guess fundamentally it's a judgement call. His persona is so much more impressive than Page’s. That admittedly subjective criterion is the main reason in my opinion he would do a better job. I also think he would have a stronger staff to support him. Jones has some managerial capabilities but his bizarre comments and behaviour is a complete no no in my book. I would have zero trust that he wouldn't do or say something embarrassing. To be fair Page has rarely said or done anything cringe worthy. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Jun 13, 2024 21:44:07 GMT
To balance that out Osian has experience in an international set up at the top level and Cooper hasn't. Surely thats more relevant. Also what experience does Bellamy have? Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff. The only real bad point he has is that Crystal Palace didn't work out (although I thought they played some decent stuff). I think that "hasn't been a manager" will always be a stick to beat him with. He has had success follow him around though. Even if he's just an incredibly lucky guy with the roles he chooses I think we need a little bit of luck. Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about?In the early days of the Coleman tenure, Cookie never gave the impression that he was a great thinker. Maybe Coleman was 'horizon scanning' for new innovative systems of play and giving much thought into implementing them. If he was, he gave the impression that he was more interested in Sky Sports presenters, faulty washing machines and misplaced passports. Then there was a documentary on S4C entitled "Byd Pêl-droed Osian Roberts". It was a sort of behind the scenes / fly on the wall at the FAW type documentary. It showed Osian in a very favourable light. Showing all the work that he was doing at the FAW. There was one scene which showed the preparation for the next international and Cookie waltzing into the meeting saying 'so what you got for me then boys' and the rest of the team explaining the analysis and prep that they had done. If the concept and implementation of a new playing system (the five at the back) system was conceived and implemented by Cookie, he has failed to do anything similar at any of the clubs that he has worked at since. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 13, 2024 22:16:43 GMT
Very impressive interview from when he joined Palace: youtu.be/upIfX6tXDjsInteresting how he talks about encouraging healthy conflict between players and coaching staff and between coaches. I wonder if that's something Page would be in favour of? |
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Post by rob on Jun 13, 2024 23:49:19 GMT
No apparent energy from Page & Co as they all appear glued to their seats on the bench.
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Post by cadno on Jun 14, 2024 7:41:54 GMT
I’d love Steve Cooper. Could we attract a Paulo Sousa or Jan Olof Andersson? The latter especially has plenty of intl management experience, would make us an organised side. Marco Rossi the Hungarian manager who ironically lost to Page once I’d love. Good attacking football and a 51% win percentage with Hungary. Page is 33% win rate with Wales. Nice. If we can get Steve Cooper that would be unbelievable, he’s clearly a class act. But it’s true he’s never shown much love towards Wales, and is probably too expensive for the FAW. They should push the boat and offer 700-800k a year to him |
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Post by iot on Jun 14, 2024 9:18:52 GMT
Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about?In the early days of the Coleman tenure, Cookie never gave the impression that he was a great thinker. Maybe Coleman was 'horizon scanning' for new innovative systems of play and giving much thought into implementing them. If he was, he gave the impression that he was more interested in Sky Sports presenters, faulty washing machines and misplaced passports. Then there was a documentary on S4C entitled "Byd Pêl-droed Osian Roberts". It was a sort of behind the scenes / fly on the wall at the FAW type documentary. It showed Osian in a very favourable light. Showing all the work that he was doing at the FAW. There was one scene which showed the preparation for the next international and Cookie waltzing into the meeting saying 'so what you got for me then boys' and the rest of the team explaining the analysis and prep that they had done. If the concept and implementation of a new playing system (the five at the back) system was conceived and implemented by Cookie, he has failed to do anything similar at any of the clubs that he has worked at since. Yeah I remember the documentary, a really good watch - although as the name implies, it very much concentrated on Osian's wider role with the FAW overseeing some of the technical / strategic side and his work with different age groups and the women's side. I didn't come out of it with a solid understanding of his exact role with the seniors. 'There was one scene which showed the preparation for the next international and Cookie waltzing into the meeting saying 'so what you got for me then boys' and the rest of the team explaining the analysis and prep that they had done.' That's a pretty standard way of operating isn't it? That the analysts are tasked with pouring over games to generate useful insights and then report back to the boss - I didn't take it as Coleman taking a back seat on the tactical side and then just running with whatever he was given. I think Osian's a decent pundit too, I just don't read quite as much into those things. Coleman definitely made it sound like he was behind the move to a back 5 anyway. Again, the only point I'm making is that there's a danger that people are making assumptions about Osian's role and impact which may not be accurate. I think there's a lot of unknowns about what can be attributed to him in his stints with different setups, but I'd happily see us take a punt on him. |
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Post by surge on Jun 14, 2024 10:41:23 GMT
The question fans and the FAW should ask themselves really is if the job was was up for grabs now, would Rob Page be a genuine contender? Yes some fans do feel entitled and expectations are higher than they were, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t always strive to have the best person in charge. Can anyone really say, hand on heart, that he's the best man for the job or is it just a case of defending him out of not wanting to rock the boat and see a decent bloke sacked? Settling for the hassle free option isn't what 'together stronger' is about surely? The punters deserve better than that. We’ll never have the strongest squad but that doesn’t mean the coaching/tactics should be allowed to lag behind too. (In fact it places even more emphasis on the one factor we can control, which is the coaching, being spot on without a Gareth Bale to save our bacon). Well coached but less talented squads have always punched above their weight. My thoughts exactly-cannot realistically see Page managing above L2 level again if he leaves Wales.He is not proven at L2 level even.Also Jordan James aside has not brought new blood into the side-10 of the Poland side were in Euro 21. Cytuno yn llwyr Gary. Is that fair? He's overseen a change in leadership group, brought in Broadhead and James, given Neco all but 2(?) of his caps, tried quite a few players who still need a bit of development... The idea that he's not brought in any new blood isn't backed up by evidence. Keep saying it but Page does some things well, that list might be shorter than others and may not be the man to take us forward, but we shouldn't completely destroy him just because we're not in a happy place right now. |
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Post by rob on Jun 14, 2024 12:06:46 GMT
My thoughts exactly-cannot realistically see Page managing above L2 level again if he leaves Wales.He is not proven at L2 level even.Also Jordan James aside has not brought new blood into the side-10 of the Poland side were in Euro 21. Cytuno yn llwyr Gary. Is that fair? He's overseen a change in leadership group, brought in Broadhead and James, given Neco all but 2(?) of his caps, tried quite a few players who still need a bit of development... The idea that he's not brought in any new blood isn't backed up by evidence. Keep saying it but Page does some things well, that list might be shorter than others and may not be the man to take us forward, but we shouldn't completely destroy him just because we're not in a happy place right now. To put it simple Page is out of his depth.Not the man to bring youth through for us.Only James and Broadhead regular appearances as newcomers,choosing King every squad instead of trying to give experience to a youngster. |
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Post by hooky on Jun 14, 2024 14:22:27 GMT
It is beyond laughable suggesting Page has developed youngsters!
Giggs through in almost a new team and was ruthless in culling the old guard. What he did was developing the youth and it was extremely brave as few wanted him and if it went wrong he would have been under immense pressure to go
As stated - Neco was blooded under Giggs and Dan James and Neco certainly weren't developed by Page - James was starring for Swansea when picked and Neco was getting the odd appearance at Liverpool! Jordan James - the likes of myself were screaming for him to be given an opportunity at the expense of a very limited, average Morrell and we know it was only through injury he got an opportunity in a position where we were weak.
The Poland game showed he had not developed his bench as he did not trust players to come on to make an impact for what was a tiring team
Developer of young player - NO - I remember Wales U21s bossing it 3-0 away to Switzerland in injury time and we had caught them on the break and he was screaming take it to the corner - not exactly an inspiration and highlights an extreme safety first mentality!
Tactically gifted - No. Think everyone would agree with this
A great bloke. Yes - but that does not make a difference at the margins and you need a group to be self driven if you have a loyal manager not driving standards. I still remember his consulting the committee of senior players and the lower intensity training sessions to fit in with Bale. Contrast his loyalty with that of Giggs and you can see why being ruthless is a better quality in top level sport
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Post by morg on Jun 14, 2024 18:34:14 GMT
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 14, 2024 18:46:47 GMT
To balance that out Osian has experience in an international set up at the top level and Cooper hasn't. Surely thats more relevant. Also what experience does Bellamy have? Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff. The only real bad point he has is that Crystal Palace didn't work out (although I thought they played some decent stuff). I think that "hasn't been a manager" will always be a stick to beat him with. He has had success follow him around though. Even if he's just an incredibly lucky guy with the roles he chooses I think we need a little bit of luck. Cooper has by far the best CV of the lot and would be the most likely to produce success imo, but I don’t think we can get him. Bellamy is definitely a risk too and is a bit of a wildcard, but could do something special. As disappointing as Burnley were this season, he and Kompany did brilliantly for them last season and had them playing a really exciting, innovative brand of football. ‘Either Osian Roberts is extremely lucky and was part of a Wales team on the rise, a Morocco team on the rise, fell into the Como role on their way to Serie A or there's more to those coincidences and he knows his stuff.’ See this is the issue that I have with how Welsh fans discuss Osian’s apparent achievements. One of the main examples you cite is his role with Morocco where I think he worked as a Technical Director for a year or two, similar to his FAW role in the 00s. I don’t think he had any involvement with the senior side, and yet some Welsh fans are suggesting he should get some credit for Morocco’s run in the WC a couple of years after he left. His precise role with Como is also very unclear, and he gets a lot of credit for being the main brain behind Coleman’s operation, but I’m not quite sure how that perception’s come about? Technical director is a major part of an organisation. He's overseeing the manager. He might not have been making the substitutes on pitch side but he would have been crucial to Moroccos success. |
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wft
savage
It's gone out for a throw in.
Posts: 111
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Post by wft on Jun 14, 2024 18:54:32 GMT
Yes he is a good manager, Everton would be in a much better place if they had stuck with him and he had spent the big money. |
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Post by rushy on Jun 14, 2024 20:35:46 GMT
Big Sam would transform the players , get him in !
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Post by kracken88 on Jun 14, 2024 20:41:34 GMT
Big Sam has a stigma about him, only there to save teams and a lower level manager but the guy knows tactics and how to set his team out for the opposition,but fuck it is so uninspiring,but I would trust him more than what we have,fuck that's bab
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Post by cynonvalley on Jun 14, 2024 22:38:20 GMT
No way lol.
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Post by quetzal on Jun 14, 2024 22:55:55 GMT
Elis James Feast Of Football. I had to turn it off. Sam Vokes and Iwan Roberts ready to stick with Page. Madness!
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Post by felinessex on Jun 15, 2024 2:08:17 GMT
I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end rather than the end of Page. There are excuses or reasons depending on your viewpoint for some of his record. The FAW may look at these. Page can use these. The bad run leading up to the World Cup and during Nations League A could be put down to Page playing a weakened team to prioritise the Austria and Ukraine matches. In League A we came close to some good results like losing twice to Netherlands. It could be argued it worked we won the two key matches. We have turned in some very good performances. The squad in these friendlies was missing key players. What it did tell us was we have very little depth. For these reasons I can see the FAW seeing how the nations leagues matches go unfortunately before acting. Of course there is the other side with some woeful performances, especially away. And it feels very much if we are on a steep downward trajectory. I think we should dispatch Page now. For me there are two types of coaches in football. Those that during the match can see issues and opportunities and make sometimes subtle or not so subtle changes to affect the match. These coaches also typically give insightful interviews at the end of matches. The other type just expect more effort during the match - this is Page. They do little coaching from the touch line or during breaks in play - this is Page. In Pages case I’ve noticed he often just points towards the oppositions goal - the players know where the goal is! This type of manager also talk in generalities in interviews about effort, transition, disappointment etc - this is Page. I want the first type of manager. Osian would I think be ideal but I think the boat has sailed unfortunately. Fingers crossed FAW will act. This ^ 100% |
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Post by felinessex on Jun 15, 2024 2:29:00 GMT
What of the recent BBC sport article on Ancelotti which described that it was his son, Davide, who called for Joselu to come off the bench when Carlo was looking frustrated with their side losing?
What of Jose Mourinho who is one manager in first 18 months and another completely in next 12 months?
Page does things well. It may be that that his list is not long enough and someone else is better placed to take us into next 2-4 year period. [/quote]
Isn’t that the whole point ? It’s a competent management team we need, rather than an individual. So Page had nobody around him from the World Cup onwards to suggest that his selections and in game tactics were crap ? Ancelotti did. That’s why he wins games.
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Post by talyfan on Jun 15, 2024 6:00:58 GMT
Elis James Feast Of Football. I had to turn it off. Sam Vokes and Iwan Roberts ready to stick with Page. Madness! To be honest only ever listen to it because one of the few Welsh football podcasts. Coleman Has a Dream isn't bad either. Feast of Football though I think they have to bite their tongue. Almost overly positive. |
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Post by hooky on Jun 15, 2024 9:14:33 GMT
If you put the likes of Georgia and Albania to one side, then I'd wager Poland are the worst team in the tournament, or only better than Scotland
Honestly they were so average - in their qualification group they were abysmal and against us they did not do much - when they did slightly threaten we were sitting back inviting pressure. They had several decent players and a top class goalkeeper, but while always a danger their star striker is clearly on the decline and did not do much
Now we are poor, but it is going to be sickening watching poor teams, like Poland, stutter in this tournament and to be reminded how awful we were to blow 3 chances to qualify. Was there even a game when we were behind or drawing where Page made a change to affect a game? Away to Croatia - sorry that was just pure luck. At home to Croatia - the team were clearly playing for Page but we got ahead due to brilliance from Harry Wilson.
The worst thing is due to this disasterous campaign, our expectations will be reset to a far lower level (Conor will remind himself that we are only little old Wales), the players may be accepting of us being far less competitive and less enthused about walking into a losing, mediocre environment and our ranking is going to slide and make future qualifying campaigns more difficult
This is not just down to the friendlies - all of us know they are a bit irrelevant (albeit hurting our ranking drawing to a team almost a hundred places below us), its that Page is clearly ill equipped to improve us / take us forward. The problem is you can see them appointing another ex-player rookie! The only one that has worked well for us was Giggs. Coleman had experience, one of the best players in the world and one of the best players in Europe. Our team is average - we can't afford to give ex-players work experience and hope it works out
Just reflecting on the Connor comment - we are little Wales - is that a problem? Did Page get a backs to the wall mentality driven by passion (with him losing his head on the touch line to the likes of Estonia I remember) instead of focusing on strategy, the need to keep calm, etc? We just look so, so lost when we are behind or drawing against a weak team and even when we are ahead early against a decent team, it is almost like after 20 mins they can struggle to manage the game
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Post by rushy on Jun 15, 2024 9:39:19 GMT
We , meaning the players, have drifted into a mentality of 'A bunch of mates' being together, with the manager instilling this thinking into the squad, this may be all well and good, but it's not enough if we are not performing to the best of our ability, which I truly believe we are not.
The players need a fresh outlook with someone with the experience, knowledge and ability to improve results, it's not something that can't be done.
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Post by surge on Jun 15, 2024 9:44:08 GMT
Elis James Feast Of Football. I had to turn it off. Sam Vokes and Iwan Roberts ready to stick with Page. Madness! To be honest only ever listen to it because one of the few Welsh football podcasts. Coleman Has a Dream isn't bad either. Feast of Football though I think they have to bite their tongue. Almost overly positive. Podcast pel-droed is a good one. I wonder if ex-players are aware that there is a chance Page stays, are aware that emotions are very raw at the moment, and realise our biggest strength is our home atmosphere and want to help protect it? Players tend to be a bit better at getting over difficult moments. We failed against Armenia away which robbed us of a final against Turkey (in similar vein to Hungary a few years back under Giggs) and then lost against Poland due to mixture of offside calls, penalties and other. Poland are above a handful of teams at the Euros according to latest FIFA stats. How much that was because they beat us, I don't know. |
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