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Post by jimexotic on Oct 12, 2024 7:57:30 GMT
I was explaining to my girlfriend at half time how unusual a feeling it was to be 2-0 up away from home and I used examples of the dark ages to do this. Burns for Brennan, them upping their pressing and 5 minutes into the second half we're on the ropes and incredibly fortunate not to concede. 20 minutes later and after displaying pretty much no attacking threat or guile whatsoever we were doing our best to go back to the dark days, especially when Burns tried a silly back pass that put them in on goal for what could and probably should have been a third.
The honeymoon is well and truly over. I love Bellamy and I believe in what he was doing, I'll accept there'll be bumps in the road and a learning curve but he needs to learn pretty fast. It wasn't a great pitch but that doesn't excuse the second goal, Roberts and Rodon looked like how your players react on Fifa if you put the controller down to have a drink. The messing around at the back was quite frankly terrifying to watch at times and as long as we have Championship and League One players in the team we're never going to be the Dutch sides of the 70's.
We were largely overrun and second best in the second half, we definitely missed Ethan but even more so we missed Dan James. His pace and movement would have curbed their enthusiasm to come at us and James for Brennan rather than Burns, who had a shocker, would have almost certainly resulted in us having more attempts at goal.
I think the writing was on the wall when Cullen and Cabango came on, we were having to settle for a point, which is by no means the end of the world but the manner in which we gave away two goals and two points was quite worrying. They could have easily had 4, it could have easily been another Armenia and that's not acceptable if we want to go on to qualify for tournaments.
I expect that throughout Bellamy's reign goalkeeper is going to be a constant issue, as is playing it out from the back, that's something he's got to come to terms with and manage. Us messing around at the back, with Ward almost completely missing the ball at one point, on dodgy surfaces isn't good for the heart and it's a leveller for the opposition, it encourages them to press and it gives them confidence whereas last night in the second half we often played with no confidence.
Full strength and on a decent surface I think we can give most teams a good game, I think we can grow into a formidable side and it could potentially be the best Wales team of all time but in order to do that we need to be progressing all the time to avoid the tougher groups, the hidings, the Moldova and Georgia double header situations, that was 30 years ago, never again.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 12, 2024 8:20:41 GMT
Bellamy didn't have any answers to the questions posed second half. At no stage did we have any control or sustained possession. Not entirely surprising as I thought we were lacking in our passing even in the first half apart from moments of exceptional quality. If ever there was a case of compromising on principles and using Moore to relieve the pressure by going long then tonight was it. Is Bellamy willing to be pragmatic? Doesn't look like like it does it. I didn’t see the first goal but the second was essentially a speculative long pass. I’ve heard the first was the same. We weren’t supposed to be scoring goals like that anymore, so I would say there is a pragmatism of sorts, unless Williams was playing off the cuff. So far I’m sceptical Bellamy can do what he wants with the players available and that in time we may end up with more of an appreciation for what Page achieved than many gave him credit for at the time. No it wasn't pragmatism, it was clearly planned as they were nearly identical goals. Bellamy had obviously identified that weakness |
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Post by talyfan on Oct 12, 2024 8:24:50 GMT
Watched the whole game back on YouTube. Minus the emotions!
Don't think we actually had much control of that game even within the first half, ball was in our own half more than Iceland's. Really didn't have a foothold on it at all. We weren't effective when playing out from the back either couldn't even get out of our own half most the time. We'd string a few passes together for either to misplace it or just lose possession.
That was a problem for us if we break down that action of playing out from the back into phases where the first phase you're playing out from the back inviting the press and then the next phase of getting the ball beyond our own half and near Iceland's 18 yard box it just wasn't happening. Completely disconnected.
Other than two moments of brilliance between Wilson and Neco for both of those goals. Fortunate to be in that position otherwise we didn't create many chances or sustained attacks where we're knocking on the door time and time again tiring the opponents out mentally and physically. We'd create a chance only for Iceland to pin us back again.
Pressing was okay first few moments of the game beyond that we were ineffective. Interesting to see the stats of the attackers touching the ball within and around Iceland's box.
Bellamy needs to look at this playing out from the back. Definitely needs tweaking and just generally mixing it up too at times. I'd question it's effectiveness particularly for our lads to sustain for long periods of a game. Trouble is with it you need consistency of personnel for it to be effective for me but the lack of coaching time and transient nature of international football just don't feel it lends itself well to it.
Go again for Monday!
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Post by iot on Oct 12, 2024 8:29:02 GMT
I was explaining to my girlfriend at half time how unusual a feeling it was to be 2-0 up away from home and I used examples of the dark ages to do this. Burns for Brennan, them upping their pressing and 5 minutes into the second half we're on the ropes and incredibly fortunate not to concede. 20 minutes later and after displaying pretty much no attacking threat or guile whatsoever we were doing our best to go back to the dark days, especially when Burns tried a silly back pass that put them in on goal for what could and probably should have been a third. The honeymoon is well and truly over. I love Bellamy and I believe in what he was doing, I'll accept there'll be bumps in the road and a learning curve but he needs to learn pretty fast. It wasn't a great pitch but that doesn't excuse the second goal, Roberts and Rodon looked like how your players react on Fifa if you put the controller down to have a drink. The messing around at the back was quite frankly terrifying to watch at times and as long as we have Championship and League One players in the team we're never going to be the Dutch sides of the 70's. We were largely overrun and second best in the second half, we definitely missed Ethan but even more so we missed Dan James. His pace and movement would have curbed their enthusiasm to come at us and James for Brennan rather than Burns, who had a shocker, would have almost certainly resulted in us having more attempts at goal. I think the writing was on the wall when Cullen and Cabango came on, we were having to settle for a point, which is by no means the end of the world but the manner in which we gave away two goals and two points was quite worrying. They could have easily had 4, it could have easily been another Armenia and that's not acceptable if we want to go on to qualify for tournaments. I expect that throughout Bellamy's reign goalkeeper is going to be a constant issue, as is playing it out from the back, that's something he's got to come to terms with and manage. Us messing around at the back, with Ward almost completely missing the ball at one point, on dodgy surfaces isn't good for the heart and it's a leveller for the opposition, it encourages them to press and it gives them confidence whereas last night in the second half we often played with no confidence. Full strength and on a decent surface I think we can give most teams a good game, I think we can grow into a formidable side and it could potentially be the best Wales team of all time but in order to do that we need to be progressing all the time to avoid the tougher groups, the hidings, the Moldova and Georgia double header situations, that was 30 years ago, never again. I agree with some of that, but don't think this whole narrative of us 'messing it around the back' too much is constructive. If we're not going to be brave enough to do that, we may as well go back to Page. And people can't have it both ways - they can't complain about Page being too negative / pragmatic, lacking a clear style and too much on the back foot, then complain about the risks that come with Bellamy's approach in setting us up to be on the front foot and dominate the ball. Bellamy has very candidly said that he looked at the squad before going for the role to see if he thought they could play his style, and if they couldn't he didn't think he was the right person for the job. He does think we have the right profile of players, and he's not going to drop his whole style when we start to become under pressure in games. He wants us to be adaptable within that style where we respond to different situations in game, and that's the bit we're missing I think and will take time. |
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Post by melynwy on Oct 12, 2024 8:38:55 GMT
Bellamy didn't have any answers to the questions posed second half. At no stage did we have any control or sustained possession. Not entirely surprising as I thought we were lacking in our passing even in the first half apart from moments of exceptional quality. If ever there was a case of compromising on principles and using Moore to relieve the pressure by going long then tonight was it. Is Bellamy willing to be pragmatic? Doesn't look like like it does it. I didn’t see the first goal but the second was essentially a speculative long pass. I’ve heard the first was the same. We weren’t supposed to be scoring goals like that anymore, so I would say there is a pragmatism of sorts, unless Williams was playing off the cuff. So far I’m sceptical Bellamy can do what he wants with the players available and that in time we may end up with more of an appreciation for what Page achieved than many gave him credit for at the time. I don't think they were speculative at all; they were very good passes. It seems to me that maintaining the intensity is the issue, which is perhaps inevitable. It feels we could give anyone a game for 45 minutes, but then we drop off. Those saying "If that were Page he'd be slated" etc. etc. after the second half last night are missing the point in my mind though - it's all about context isn't it. Yes, if that had been under Page he'd have been slated, because it would be in the context of several other dismal performances with no real promise of change. The context under Bellamy is that he's a new manager, only 3 games in, and we've seen plenty of positives, so that 2nd half yesterday can't be seen as the definitive version of this Wales team. In terms of results, Bellamy's doing OK but not great. On paper, it's well within what the fans would 'allow' a new manager who's settling in. In terms of performances, on the whole I think it's been above expectations. It's been very exciting at times, and when it clicks, the players have adapted well to it and, on the most part, play to the best of their ability. Under Page, more often than not, our players seemed to play well under their ability. The "honeymoon period" is far from over - I'd say this whole Nations League is the honeymoon period. We've come excruciatingly close to taking 9 points from 9, and if we had done so, it would not have been through luck. As long as the players and Bellamy keep on learning, we are in a good place. It's keeping that intensity that seems to be the problem, which is understandable given our players' lack of match fitness and the short international windows they have to train together. Not sure what the answer is, but I trust Bellamy will look into it! Also, I really don't feel that a whole team can turn into shit during a 15 minute half-time break... so credit must go to Iceland for changing their game. They nullified us completely and closed all passing avenues, and from then on we couldn't get any control over the game. By then, the players we have that are most capable of turning things around were tiring, and the bench options were limited. Yes, Bellamy could/should have changed things sooner, and I'm sure he'll learn from it. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 9:57:24 GMT
One thing I'm struggling to get my head around is what role Bellamy envisaged for Moore. Prime Moore had a lot of mobility for a big man, but he's well past his prime. If having a mobile no 9 to contribute to the high press was a priority then clearly Harris or Cullen would have been selected ahead of Moore. Perhaps the hope was to get a lot of crosses from wide areas in for Moore to get his head on. If so that wasn't evident in our play even in the first half. Good although he is from set pieces in both boxes is that sufficient reason for his selection? One thing he clearly wasn't selected for was as a target man to hit as a means of escaping the press.
Any thoughts? Because I'm stumped with regard to Bellamy's thinking. It's too early to be definitive, but there's a suspicion in my mind that Bellamy puts individual player pedigree over putting round pegs in round holes. The non-selection of Sheehan versus Cooper in an unfamiliar DM role is another indication of this possible mindset. If this is the case then that approach will be severely tested against Montenegro given that James is unavailable.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 12, 2024 10:16:14 GMT
Would have been happy with a draw before the game. Very disappointing second half (don't think the players are fit enough to play Bellamy's way for 90mins). For as good as they looked first half, the opposite in the second. Silly bookings don't help either for the next fixture. Many things to ponder and improvements needed all round
Changing the subject, what a shambles with the U21s last night too. Back to the Alun Evans days!
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Post by hooky on Oct 12, 2024 11:09:09 GMT
I was explaining to my girlfriend at half time how unusual a feeling it was to be 2-0 up away from home and I used examples of the dark ages to do this. Burns for Brennan, them upping their pressing and 5 minutes into the second half we're on the ropes and incredibly fortunate not to concede. 20 minutes later and after displaying pretty much no attacking threat or guile whatsoever we were doing our best to go back to the dark days, especially when Burns tried a silly back pass that put them in on goal for what could and probably should have been a third. The honeymoon is well and truly over. I love Bellamy and I believe in what he was doing, I'll accept there'll be bumps in the road and a learning curve but he needs to learn pretty fast. It wasn't a great pitch but that doesn't excuse the second goal, Roberts and Rodon looked like how your players react on Fifa if you put the controller down to have a drink. The messing around at the back was quite frankly terrifying to watch at times and as long as we have Championship and League One players in the team we're never going to be the Dutch sides of the 70's. We were largely overrun and second best in the second half, we definitely missed Ethan but even more so we missed Dan James. His pace and movement would have curbed their enthusiasm to come at us and James for Brennan rather than Burns, who had a shocker, would have almost certainly resulted in us having more attempts at goal. I think the writing was on the wall when Cullen and Cabango came on, we were having to settle for a point, which is by no means the end of the world but the manner in which we gave away two goals and two points was quite worrying. They could have easily had 4, it could have easily been another Armenia and that's not acceptable if we want to go on to qualify for tournaments. I expect that throughout Bellamy's reign goalkeeper is going to be a constant issue, as is playing it out from the back, that's something he's got to come to terms with and manage. Us messing around at the back, with Ward almost completely missing the ball at one point, on dodgy surfaces isn't good for the heart and it's a leveller for the opposition, it encourages them to press and it gives them confidence whereas last night in the second half we often played with no confidence. Full strength and on a decent surface I think we can give most teams a good game, I think we can grow into a formidable side and it could potentially be the best Wales team of all time but in order to do that we need to be progressing all the time to avoid the tougher groups, the hidings, the Moldova and Georgia double header situations, that was 30 years ago, never again. I know I am harsh and we are a small country but the sooner we do not see the likes of Sheehan, Cullen, Burns or Savage anywhere near the squad the better. I have seen them enough to know they can contribute very little. Mad that Burns is actually a Premiership player for one season Cabango did not really do much wrong. He is limited but is a decent presence (especially aerially) when balls are being zipped into your area and you are just defending, The bigger problem is how Rodon's game collapses when others play poorly around him or are not leading things (you see his frustration too as he looks like he is going to burst into tears!). He is old enough to lead by example himself from time to time. Ben Davies is a centre back pairing is asking for trouble. Connor Roberts has had so many bad games for us now - he needs genuine competition - what has Dasilva done for Bellamy to write him off and not even give him a chance? He looked fair more effective and composed in his 2 games for Wales than Connor has been in quite a few matches I have seen of him. Its strange as surely you try to give everyone a chance? Sorba's game was erratic yesterday too, albeit he did OK in the other two games and made a great run for his chance. I just hope that our Welsh squad move to clubs where they can actually start? I don't understand how we seem to be disproportionately penalised for them being on high salaries arguably playing at clubs above what their ability is suited! Look at JJ - how effective he was as a fit teenager, starting most games for Birmingham and where he is now after getting something like 20 mins all season with his French club. |
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Post by hooky on Oct 12, 2024 11:23:08 GMT
I didn’t see the first goal but the second was essentially a speculative long pass. I’ve heard the first was the same. We weren’t supposed to be scoring goals like that anymore, so I would say there is a pragmatism of sorts, unless Williams was playing off the cuff. So far I’m sceptical Bellamy can do what he wants with the players available and that in time we may end up with more of an appreciation for what Page achieved than many gave him credit for at the time. I don't think they were speculative at all; they were very good passes. It seems to me that maintaining the intensity is the issue, which is perhaps inevitable. It feels we could give anyone a game for 45 minutes, but then we drop off. Those saying "If that were Page he'd be slated" etc. etc. after the second half last night are missing the point in my mind though - it's all about context isn't it. Yes, if that had been under Page he'd have been slated, because it would be in the context of several other dismal performances with no real promise of change. The context under Bellamy is that he's a new manager, only 3 games in, and we've seen plenty of positives, so that 2nd half yesterday can't be seen as the definitive version of this Wales team. In terms of results, Bellamy's doing OK but not great. On paper, it's well within what the fans would 'allow' a new manager who's settling in. In terms of performances, on the whole I think it's been above expectations. It's been very exciting at times, and when it clicks, the players have adapted well to it and, on the most part, play to the best of their ability. Under Page, more often than not, our players seemed to play well under their ability. The "honeymoon period" is far from over - I'd say this whole Nations League is the honeymoon period. We've come excruciatingly close to taking 9 points from 9, and if we had done so, it would not have been through luck. As long as the players and Bellamy keep on learning, we are in a good place. It's keeping that intensity that seems to be the problem, which is understandable given our players' lack of match fitness and the short international windows they have to train together. Not sure what the answer is, but I trust Bellamy will look into it! Also, I really don't feel that a whole team can turn into shit during a 15 minute half-time break... so credit must go to Iceland for changing their game. They nullified us completely and closed all passing avenues, and from then on we couldn't get any control over the game. By then, the players we have that are most capable of turning things around were tiring, and the bench options were limited. Yes, Bellamy could/should have changed things sooner, and I'm sure he'll learn from it. One disturbing issue for me is regardless of lack of game time, why were we so unfit compared to Iceland? You'd assume a fair few of them would be playing a lower standard of football or in and out of teams, so why did we seem to be exhausted for the last 45 mins, where they were so energetic? If we were playing England or Italy I could understand it, but this was Iceland, a population of c.380k! They punch well above their weight but should not be that much fitter than us. |
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Post by hooky on Oct 12, 2024 11:55:57 GMT
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Post by aberbeeg on Oct 12, 2024 12:09:16 GMT
It’s not only a matter of match fitness when players aren’t playing regularly. It’s also about finding the intensity of matches completely different than reserve football or simple training.
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llyn
the carls
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Post by llyn on Oct 12, 2024 13:14:27 GMT
I realise that it's early days for Bellamy, but I'm slightly concerned by the lack of tactical adaption in the second half. Iceland scored their goals after about 20 minutes of dominance. The writing was on the cards but nothing changed from Wales. Robert Page was lacking a plan B and on yesterday's showing I'm not yet convinced Bellamy has one.
Even with our missing players we have to win on Monday. Page was criticised for using the excuse of "we are in transition" but if we don't win on Monday and Bellamy and the players resort to the we are learning the new way of playing mantra then that will begin to sound like the new "we are on tradition" excuse.
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Post by insertname on Oct 12, 2024 13:16:03 GMT
I was explaining to my girlfriend at half time how unusual a feeling it was to be 2-0 up away from home and I used examples of the dark ages to do this. Burns for Brennan, them upping their pressing and 5 minutes into the second half we're on the ropes and incredibly fortunate not to concede. 20 minutes later and after displaying pretty much no attacking threat or guile whatsoever we were doing our best to go back to the dark days, especially when Burns tried a silly back pass that put them in on goal for what could and probably should have been a third. The honeymoon is well and truly over. I love Bellamy and I believe in what he was doing, I'll accept there'll be bumps in the road and a learning curve but he needs to learn pretty fast. It wasn't a great pitch but that doesn't excuse the second goal, Roberts and Rodon looked like how your players react on Fifa if you put the controller down to have a drink. The messing around at the back was quite frankly terrifying to watch at times and as long as we have Championship and League One players in the team we're never going to be the Dutch sides of the 70's. We were largely overrun and second best in the second half, we definitely missed Ethan but even more so we missed Dan James. His pace and movement would have curbed their enthusiasm to come at us and James for Brennan rather than Burns, who had a shocker, would have almost certainly resulted in us having more attempts at goal. I think the writing was on the wall when Cullen and Cabango came on, we were having to settle for a point, which is by no means the end of the world but the manner in which we gave away two goals and two points was quite worrying. They could have easily had 4, it could have easily been another Armenia and that's not acceptable if we want to go on to qualify for tournaments. I expect that throughout Bellamy's reign goalkeeper is going to be a constant issue, as is playing it out from the back, that's something he's got to come to terms with and manage. Us messing around at the back, with Ward almost completely missing the ball at one point, on dodgy surfaces isn't good for the heart and it's a leveller for the opposition, it encourages them to press and it gives them confidence whereas last night in the second half we often played with no confidence. Full strength and on a decent surface I think we can give most teams a good game, I think we can grow into a formidable side and it could potentially be the best Wales team of all time but in order to do that we need to be progressing all the time to avoid the tougher groups, the hidings, the Moldova and Georgia double header situations, that was 30 years ago, never again. I agree with some of that, but don't think this whole narrative of us 'messing it around the back' too much is constructive. If we're not going to be brave enough to do that, we may as well go back to Page. And people can't have it both ways - they can't complain about Page being too negative / pragmatic, lacking a clear style and too much on the back foot, then complain about the risks that come with Bellamy's approach in setting us up to be on the front foot and dominate the ball. Bellamy has very candidly said that he looked at the squad before going for the role to see if he thought they could play his style, and if they couldn't he didn't think he was the right person for the job. He does think we have the right profile of players, and he's not going to drop his whole style when we start to become under pressure in games. He wants us to be adaptable within that style where we respond to different situations in game, and that's the bit we're missing I think and will take time. Problem is in two of the three games (against weaker opposition) there has been all of the risk and none of the domination. I’ve seen it myself at club level, my team playing a bit lower down the pyramid coming up against low quality players bizarrely trying to play out from the back and getting themselves into all sorts of trouble and conceding soft goals and my initial fears of Bellamy thinking he can come in and get that sort of style working with some players that Wales have to select from are being realised. It’s obviously not going to be an overnight thing but as I’ve asked before have any other teams at our level at international level successfully implemented this style this because to my mind it’s hard enough to implement at club level (like I say I’ve seen players bugger it up from teams who have had 10 games week in week out at club level to get drilled in it) let alone at international level when you have no time to prepare at all, the players might not be playing it for their club sides whilst also having to adjust to calling new players up due to injury etc. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 12, 2024 13:31:24 GMT
Didn't manage to watch the game, just goal highlights and post match interviews, so hard to assess the overall performance even after reading the match pages.
Both goals conceded looked preventable especially the second, Roberts should have attacked the cross field ball but allowed the ball to drop and letting himself get ripped instead, that was poor.
I take it Iceland dispensed with the suicidal high line which we exploited in the first half, and changed shape to which they obviously benefited greatly judging by the final scoreline.
I tought it was the responsibility of the manager to respond to such changes to counteract the possible effect, I don't know what changes Bellamy did make but whichever way you review it , the final result has to be a disappointment.
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Post by surge on Oct 12, 2024 13:38:13 GMT
Just three games, one played in unique conditions...
My hypothesis is that football is changing with managers having to find answers to i) increase in workload and ii) most are now singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of what they're trying to do, so that getting an advantage is more difficult especially if you don't have the bank balance to change things in the easiest way.
Internationally, most successful sides over past decade have been following Deschamps' style of control in the 90 mins and harmony in the camp.
Bellamy thinks this style gives us the best chance to win games. Longer term, I am less concerned about coaching players to do it in shorter periods of time (most of our players have been together for 5+ years) and more concerned about physical demands of it considering relatively shallow talent pool. We need to find a way of getting 4+ points from two-game windows consistently.
It's something different that may give us the edge without hundreds of players to chose from and endless pots of money to throw at it. But I'm pretty sure any results from the changes will be seen in World Cup qualifiers onwards.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 14:01:31 GMT
Usually after watching a match back I moderate my opinion. Not this time! Second half we were simply dreadful. I could scapegoat Wes Burns, because his 45 minutes were one of the worst I've ever seen in a Cymru shirt. We're talking Gavin Maguire territory... At least 4 attacking opportunities came from him giving the ball away cheaply or being dispossesed. The last, where his pass back was easily intercepted, should have resulted in a winner for Iceland.
But to pin it all on poor Maguire, sorry Burns, would be unfair as no one played well second half, although I will exempt Cooper and James, who gave 6 out of 10 performances. Even Neco, so brilliant at both ends first half, struggled to even keep simple passes in play. There was zero leadership from the more senior players. Wilson on a couple of occasions received ball to feet and tried to spin, handing possession to the player immediately behind. Very poor judgement.
It's also not the case that we tried to play it out from the back, or at least we did so with far too much haste, and by resorting to far too many longer balls. Our game management was abysmal. God we missed Ampadu. The senior players need to really step up against Montenegro.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 14:30:10 GMT
This narrative that we are unable to play it out from the back for XYZ reasons is complete bolycs. We did it superbly well in our first 45 minutes under Bellamy. If we can do it to a very high standard after a couple of days training under the new manager then we are clearly able to do so on an ongoing basis.
Yesterday second half it was crying out for a shorter passing game. We fell between two stools, neither keeping control, by shorter passing movements, or going for the polar opposite, long to Moore, to move us down the pitch and looking to win second balls. Perhaps there was some muddled thinking here, because what was Moore there for? He's not an obvious choice for a team looking to play it out from the back. Answers on a postcard.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 18:17:39 GMT
One of the most disappointing aspects of that second half performance was the very poor game management, especially from our senior pros: Davies, Wilson, Moore in particular. It's worth watching from the 60th minute onwards. We've been totally under the cosh for the first quarter, but very fortunately are still 2 goals to the good. In spite of a dumb long ball from Davies we win the second ball and finally work our way downfield, yielding the decent Cooper effort on goal - our solitary effort on goal. This is where Davies should have stepped in and made sure we took a short corner - after all only 3% of corners result in goals. What we desperately needed at that point in the game was to take the sting out of the game, through a period of sustained control. Instead we throw it in the mixer and Iceland clear. Neco has a second chance to regain possession but squanders the opportunity by looking forwards when a backwards pass would have kept possession. These are the sort of inflection points that I hope Bellamy will highlight to the players.
By the way, poor as Roberts' and Rodon's efforts were for the second goal, the chief culprit was Sorba - he had the chance to cover Roberts, faced with a two on one, but slowed to a walk when a sprint could have enabled him to challenge for the ball.
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Post by underwood on Oct 12, 2024 18:26:33 GMT
One of the most disappointing aspects of that second half performance was the very poor game management, especially from our senior pros: Davies, Wilson, Moore in particular. It's worth watching from the 60th minute onwards. We've been totally under the cosh for the first quarter, but very fortunately are still 2 goals to the good. In spite of a dumb long ball from Davies we win the second ball and finally work our way downfield, yielding the decent Cooper effort on goal - our solitary effort on goal. This is where Davies should have stepped in and made sure we took a short corner - after all only 3% of corners result in goals. What we desperately needed at that point in the game was to take the sting out of the game, through a period of sustained control. Instead we throw it in the mixer and Iceland clear. Neco has a second chance to regain possession but squanders the opportunity by looking forwards when a backwards pass would have kept possession. These are the sort of inflection points that I hope Bellamy will highlight to the players. By the way, poor as Roberts' and Rodon's efforts were for the second goal, the chief culprit was Sorba - he had the chance to cover Roberts, faced with a two on one, but slowed to a walk when a sprint could have enabled him to challenge for the ball. Watch the last 2 mins against Montenegro back, Sorba again also guilty of not playing the simple ball into Harris that would have resulted in a shot on goal, which instead leads to another chance for the home side to attack. Maybe he’s not intelligent enough, but then he wouldn’t be the only one. We were spoilt with Bale, Rambo, Allen, Williams & Ledley all in the same side together, not only excellent at what they do, but also all with a ‘cute’ footballing brain to go with it. |
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Post by dragonsoccer on Oct 12, 2024 19:24:42 GMT
As reported yesterday morning, plan is for Owen Beck to return to the senior squad for the Montenegro
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Post by welrus on Oct 12, 2024 19:25:24 GMT
It’s not only a matter of match fitness when players aren’t playing regularly. It’s also about finding the intensity of matches completely different than reserve football or simple training. Very true. And the problem for Bellamy is its the one thing he cant really influence. |
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Post by welrus on Oct 12, 2024 19:33:02 GMT
Would like to see the stats on how many times taking short goal kicks trying to play out from the back in the second half we actually managed to get out of our own half I like the concept, but at times it looks a bit dodgy, and why have a target man play and not use him, I am not suggesting hoofball, but we should mix it up especially when Iceland uped the press we couldn't get out, so go over it sometimes if you have an outlet on the pitch...use it I agree totally. The Davies / Ward / Davies play out from the back in the second half was simply not working - and seemed like a guaranteed way to give Iceland the ball. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 19:36:06 GMT
I don't have the stats for the second half but I don't think we had more than the solitary Cooper effort on goal. I would guess Iceland had about 17 efforts on goal, including 2 goals, hitting the crossbar and the post. Let that sink in 17 to one versus Iceland.
I'd like to know what particular aspect of that abject second half display pleased Bellamy. Perhaps the knowledge we couldn't possibly put in a worse 45 minute display during his tenure?
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 19:40:48 GMT
Would like to see the stats on how many times taking short goal kicks trying to play out from the back in the second half we actually managed to get out of our own half I like the concept, but at times it looks a bit dodgy, and why have a target man play and not use him, I am not suggesting hoofball, but we should mix it up especially when Iceland uped the press we couldn't get out, so go over it sometimes if you have an outlet on the pitch...use it I agree totally. The Davies / Ward / Davies play out from the back in the second half was simply not working - and seemed like a guaranteed way to give Iceland the ball. It was certainly an option to go long to Moore but I can understand Bellamy's reluctance to go down this route. But if you look at that second half I would say that about 90% of the turnover ball came from attempted passes longer than 20 metres. The problem wasn't playing it out from the back per se but rather poor decision making in looking for the low percentage longer ball far too often. Davies was one of the more guilty parties in that regards. He completed 2 out of 8 long balls. |
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Post by talyfan on Oct 12, 2024 20:31:01 GMT
Definitely needed to be braver on the ball and that's every single player, not just the defence who commence the build up/playing out from the back.
Was disappointed with Sorba. Normally, very direct and runs straight at defenders didn't see too much of that yesterday. Same can be said for most of the lads though. Our attackers didn't get on the ball much at all.
I miss Joniesta
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 12, 2024 20:39:42 GMT
Definitely needed to be braver on the ball and that's every single player, not just the defence who commence the build up/playing out from the back. Was disappointed with Sorba. Normally, very direct and runs straight at defenders didn't see too much of that yesterday. Same can be said for most of the lads though. Our attackers didn't get on the ball much at all. I miss Joniesta Me too. There’s a player who knew how to look after the ball. |
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Post by dai on Oct 12, 2024 21:13:58 GMT
On the Moore debate, I just don't know why he plays the full game? He almost always does when he starts.
How many times did we actually utilise his height and attributes? How often did we find him in the box with a cross or pass? He's a 6ft 5 striker, yet he was playing deeper than our wingers for large parts of the game.
He's a great header of the ball, but we gave him zero service on Friday night.
He was clearly tired in the final third, but did well.
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Post by dragon64 on Oct 12, 2024 22:56:53 GMT
Would like to see the stats on how many times taking short goal kicks trying to play out from the back in the second half we actually managed to get out of our own half I like the concept, but at times it looks a bit dodgy, and why have a target man play and not use him, I am not suggesting hoofball, but we should mix it up especially when Iceland uped the press we couldn't get out, so go over it sometimes if you have an outlet on the pitch...use it I agree totally. The Davies / Ward / Davies play out from the back in the second half was simply not working - and seemed like a guaranteed way to give Iceland the ball. Its a hard one to get right Bellamy wants to have a style/philosophy/way of playing and the goal kicks are part of that ,it sometimes looks a bit dodgy and at times will go wrong, its a question I suppose of want you want to see I would like to see his style and what he wants to do developing, but I can't understand why he doesnt play a dynamic option up top rather than a Target man who you then don't play to his strengths or use as an option to get out of a high press
sometimes you have to mix it up in your goal kicks, interestingly Bellamy is allowing this in open play some of the deep passes[they were not hoofs to the big man] made were superb they cut Iceland open so he isnt being rigid and wanting us to play tikki taka and walk the ball into the net
There are a few things he got wrong yesterday but I have no problem with that he is just starting and I and I would suggest most fans are on board with his approach,more importantly I believe the players are fully on board with his ideas, its not perfect but so refreshing compared to what we had
his ideas will be tweaked as we move forward for sure ....the main issue for me and a challenge he will sadly have in every game is some of our players are not getting playing time for their clubs, so they wont be able to sustain what Bellamy wants to see for a full game |
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Post by rushy on Oct 13, 2024 9:08:15 GMT
Reading between the lines here, it seems the consensus of opinion appears to be the unwavering style of play Bellamy is fixed on, and the understanding of it by the players, not surprising that certain parts of this is whether the players have the abilities to as an example, play out from the back.
I think this is something that coaches now are refusing to take into account, it's my way or the highway attitude, but we'll see how things develop for us because it's still early days in Bellamy's tenure.
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Post by dragonsoccer on Oct 13, 2024 9:29:40 GMT
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