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Post by cadno on Oct 8, 2024 15:17:58 GMT
I was talking to a friend that’s not really into football and explained how the Celtic fans have been very supportive towards Palestinians, raising Palestine flags and demonstrating support for a free Palestine. My friend asked why I haven’t demonstrated this at games and I didn’t really know but I said 1- I don’t have the guts, and 2- I’m not sure there’s a willingness for it within the Welsh fan base, of course uefa wouldn’t allow a political stance within the stadium (not sure about some sort of march or demo outside before the game) but anyway, I’m not sure- I guess I’m surprised I haven’t seen any discussions about some sort of support towards Palestine, maybe I’ve missed something? Or maybe it’s just a sore subject and not something people feel comfortable discussing, or don’t feel strongly enough about, or maybe don’t agree with supporting Palestine / coming across as anti-Israel…
I might not have put this sentence together very well. Simple question, do you believe there’s a willingness within the Welsh fan base to show support towards Palestine? Has it happened?
I’m not trying to be judgmental, just genuinely intrigued.
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Post by welshrover on Oct 8, 2024 15:21:10 GMT
Not for me.
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Post by blackfish on Oct 8, 2024 16:26:35 GMT
This is something I have pondered and would like to see. We saw many Ukrainian flags on display at the stadium in the wake of Russia's invasion. It would be hypocrisy of the highest order for UEFA to oppose a show of solidarity with the people of Palestine who are facing unimaginable cruelty at the hands of the Israeli regime. Whether or not there is sufficient support within our fanbase is another question. I imagine that there are many fans who would support such action, but there will also be some who would oppose it, and it could cause division in the stands. However, I believe that silence is complicity, and pressure should be put on UEFA to expel Israel from its competitions, much like they did with Russia.
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Post by manulike on Oct 8, 2024 19:29:05 GMT
No from me. Even the one-sided support for Ukraine was misplaced. Peace and desire for peace is great. Nothing more.
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Post by gwernybwch on Oct 8, 2024 19:41:05 GMT
Not on this forum.
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Post by welshrover on Oct 8, 2024 19:47:02 GMT
Have given a "thumbs up" to manulike and gwernybwch but not sure if it works on this forum nowadays as they don't show up on my screen.
Perhaps I am using an old version or something.
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Post by manulike on Oct 8, 2024 20:25:21 GMT
Have given a "thumbs up" to manulike and gwernybwch but not sure if it works on this forum nowadays as they don't show up on my screen. Perhaps I am using an old version or something. Works just fine ;-) Thank you!
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Post by cadno on Oct 8, 2024 21:12:21 GMT
Fair enough, judging from the first few replies, any demonstration would cause too much division in the fan base. Disappointed from a personal perspective but not surprised and respect others opinions. I admire the Celtic fans standing against genocide, but they seem to be the only major club or country voicing their opinions, quite rare!
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Post by hooky on Oct 8, 2024 21:21:25 GMT
It can be divisive
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Nelson Mandela, the one iconic person I look up to as an example of what is good about mankind, would have polarised opinions in the past lets not forget.
I have tremendous sympathy for the Palestinian people and how they have not been allowed to live in dignity, while being used by their own supposed allies. Israel's actions are unforgiveable - a country with 1000x or more the weaponry and the means to devastate their enemies are inhumanely administering that power and justifying everything by keeping count of how many Hamas or Hezbollah they are killing, as if it totally justifies all the innocent women, children (and men) that are being killed in the process. They are no better than what they classify as terrorists in my eyes but what Hamas did to provoke this war in the first place was also evil. The Middle East is a savage region where any sign of mercy can be treated as a sign of weakness to be exploited unfortunately
Lets wave a flag instead as a memory for all the innocent women, children (and men) that die needlessly because of the sick decisions that various leaders and armies make where they treat the other side without any sense of humanity. If they are Palestinian or Israeli, no one deserves what has happened to the innocent of both sides that have been killed or injured. it makes me despair at how humans can do such things to each other.
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Post by derynglas on Oct 8, 2024 22:46:15 GMT
There was clearly a lot of support for Ukraine from our fanbase for their plight in
having been invaded by an impeariallist Russia.
Russia is clearly trying to restore the soviet empire and is attempting genocide in
the largest conflict in Europe since WW2.
Blaming Nato expansion,or the Maidan uprising or whatever,is just Russian propoganda justifying
their agression.Nobody in our fanbase would be offended by support for Ukraine IMO.
The Israel-Palestine conflict is more comlicated.We all have sympathy for the Palestinian people.
But we are also aware of the horrific events of October 7 and the constant attacks on Israel before
that,and the existential threat to Israel of countries who dont accept their right to exist.
Everybody has their own views on this but I dont see us taking sides in this issue or openly
supporting one side,or the other.
In terms of being banned from UEFA and FIFA competitions one of the main drivers of that originally was
that countries were lining up to say they werent going to play Russia under any circumstances
and that still seems to be the case.That hasnt happened with Israel.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 8, 2024 23:01:46 GMT
If you polled our fans in the stadium I'm sure a majority would fall down on the Palestine side of things. However, the discourse around Israel-Palestine isn't as partisan as the Russia-Ukraine war
What Israel is doing in Palestine is comparable, if not worse, than what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Logic would say that any country that denounces the actions of Russia should also do the same towards Israel. However, there is a lot of Islamophobia in the UK, and a lot of people feel strongly that Israel is justified in any action due to the genocide in WWII. It's not the actions that are judged, it's the people committing them that matter to a lot of people. That means that any demonstration wouldn't be as universally agreed on as a pro-Ukraine demonstration
I personally like the previous idea suggested of a demonstration for all innocent lives lost in the conflict. We all want peace for the region and for innocent deaths to stop no matter what country they are from or their ethnicity/religion
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 9, 2024 8:02:22 GMT
Most people don’t really care about the why and just want peace with no wars.
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Post by evans1282 on Oct 9, 2024 9:53:04 GMT
Judging by the inane beige reactions on here probably not , an ignorance of history means most on here would oppose this.Wrong in my personal opinion but that's irrelevant, without a consensus it would cause trouble.
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Post by welshdan1927 on Oct 9, 2024 9:53:16 GMT
Remember when we played Israel in the home qualifier and the field outside had a protest and counter protest? It was about 50 people in total separated by a football pitch's length fenced off.
Not much of an appetite for protesting against a foreign war then and not much now.
The world's a pretty awful places and I'd like to think I'm not alone in Wales games being an escape.
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Post by rushy on Oct 9, 2024 12:07:05 GMT
Let's just say some so called leaders of countries are being allowed to carry out such atrocities that can only be described as War Crimes and the world does not have true leaders of men to solve these issues.
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Post by welshrover on Oct 9, 2024 12:49:25 GMT
Judging by the inane beige reactions on here probably not , an ignorance of history means most on here would oppose this.Wrong in my personal opinion but that's irrelevant, without a consensus it would cause trouble. Can you point me to these "inane beige reactions"? |
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Post by evans1282 on Oct 9, 2024 13:19:09 GMT
Judging by the inane beige reactions on here probably not , an ignorance of history means most on here would oppose this.Wrong in my personal opinion but that's irrelevant, without a consensus it would cause trouble. Can you point me to these "inane beige reactions"? The its a country far away mob , both sides are to blame mob.We shouldn't pick sides, take your pick beige di fuck all and stick.your head in tne ground bullshit, |
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 9, 2024 13:41:28 GMT
I remember my first beer
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 9, 2024 14:20:17 GMT
Have given a "thumbs up" to manulike and gwernybwch but not sure if it works on this forum nowadays as they don't show up on my screen. Perhaps I am using an old version or something. Yeah, my ‘thumbs up’ sign doesn’t show on mine either. Good to know that it works even if I can’t see it my end. |
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Post by cadno on Oct 9, 2024 15:54:58 GMT
Appreciate the responses. I’ve always kept an eye on what’s going on in Israel / Palestine, and the last year has been horrendous, 50,000 approx deaths, children and babies being bombed every day, and it doesn’t look like it will stop sadly. The west have been quite harsh on Russia quite rightly but don’t want to interfere with Israel/palestine, and without public pressure from the west I’m not sure governments will do much any time soon… I’m sure there’s rally’s etc I can join and should from my perspective - was interested if it would be something Welsh fans would welcome but I think it would cause too much division. Fair point with Wales games being a good distraction and escape from everything too, I can appreciate that. I’ve fallen out of love a bit with football the last few years but think it’s something that can happen as we get older, I’m starting to love it again and getting excited with Bellamy in charge, hopefully he brings us great memories watching Wales!
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Post by wirralwelsh on Oct 9, 2024 16:48:40 GMT
No from me. Even the one-sided support for Ukraine was misplaced. Peace and desire for peace is great. Nothing more.
What do you mean by one-sided support for Ukraine? Do you think russia have equal right to be supported after all the suffering and ruin they have caused through their invasion? Peace isn't achieved by capitulating to aggressors. The 20th century taught as that clearly enough. Israel deserves the same treatment as russia has rightfully got from Uefa |
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wft
savage
It's gone out for a throw in.
Posts: 111
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Post by wft on Oct 9, 2024 17:32:37 GMT
I was talking to a friend that’s not really into football and explained how the Celtic fans have been very supportive towards Palestinians, raising Palestine flags and demonstrating support for a free Palestine. My friend asked why I haven’t demonstrated this at games and I didn’t really know but I said 1- I don’t have the guts, and 2- I’m not sure there’s a willingness for it within the Welsh fan base, of course uefa wouldn’t allow a political stance within the stadium (not sure about some sort of march or demo outside before the game) but anyway, I’m not sure- I guess I’m surprised I haven’t seen any discussions about some sort of support towards Palestine, maybe I’ve missed something? Or maybe it’s just a sore subject and not something people feel comfortable discussing, or don’t feel strongly enough about, or maybe don’t agree with supporting Palestine / coming across as anti-Israel… I might not have put this sentence together very well. Simple question, do you believe there’s a willingness within the Welsh fan base to show support towards Palestine? Has it happened? I’m not trying to be judgmental, just genuinely intrigued. A brave post Cadno. Turkey too and Ireland openly pro Palestine anti Zionist Banners at games. It took years before people began jumping on the Anti Apartheid bandwagon. |
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Post by kracken88 on Oct 9, 2024 17:57:47 GMT
Reading 'one sided support for Ukraine ' gave me a what the fuck moment,what do you mean by that?
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 9, 2024 18:14:26 GMT
Not a subject for this 'football' forum.
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Post by welshrover on Oct 9, 2024 18:19:54 GMT
Not a subject for this 'football' forum. Agree 100% |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 9, 2024 19:00:38 GMT
Not a subject for this 'football' forum. Agreed, there’s absolutely loads of forums and social media platforms where this can be discussed, keep this to football. We barely even talk about football that doesn’t involve Welsh players, let alone wars or other news/politics. |
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Post by manulike on Oct 9, 2024 22:09:54 GMT
No from me. Even the one-sided support for Ukraine was misplaced. Peace and desire for peace is great. Nothing more.
What do you mean by one-sided support for Ukraine? Do you think russia have equal right to be supported after all the suffering and ruin they have caused through their invasion? Peace isn't achieved by capitulating to aggressors. The 20th century taught as that clearly enough. Israel deserves the same treatment as russia has rightfully got from Uefa You seem to forget that the United Kingdom and the United States are the largest manufacturers of weapons and by far and away the biggest cause of human suffering on the planet. Ever.
Sudan, Syria, Libya, Armenia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, Fiji, Angola, Somalia, El Salvador, Nicaragua ...
No war is justified. The NATO / UK is not a peace lover. I felt so embaressed last year in Yerevan, trying to apologies to the Armenians for my country helping make 120,000 of their people refugees ;-( |
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Post by CrackityJones on Oct 9, 2024 22:21:10 GMT
I agree we probably need to shut this down. As said above, it’s got nothing to do with Welsh football and there are plenty of other places to discuss if you need to
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Post by cadno on Oct 9, 2024 22:34:52 GMT
Why, the thread does no harm, we as fans have made political stances before now and discussed politics on this forum for years; if you don’t want to contribute then don’t comment.
There’s no violence in the thread, simply a harmless question, and if you don’t want to discuss the matter then simply don’t open the thread - there’s hundreds of other ones which are football related on here, you can stick to those!
And it is related to Welsh football as my question was asking if Welsh fans would welcome a demonstration - just a question, that’s all it is. There’s been plenty of answers, for and against, suggestions for a demo for peace for all, etc. so it’s been worthwhile, but I’d be gutted and disappointed if the thread was taken down now.
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Post by derynglas on Oct 9, 2024 22:54:25 GMT
Its about our fanbase and whether we support this cause or that cause and how we show our support in the stadium or outside.
Our fanbase can be political and Welsh football fans for independance has shown that.
I dont agree with shutting down debate.
If youre not interested,dont click on the thread.Simples.
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