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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 22:22:04 GMT
Au contraire. The pace was too slow at times, as Nathan Blake said: "As a Bulgarian, what would you rather see, a quick ball out of defence up to Morison and a man running off him to pick the ball up....or a slow ball played by Hennessey to Collins to Williams, back to Collins etc."
We played to Bulgarias pace for most of the match and it suited them down to the ground. We are not suited to patient football as we simply cannot keep hold of it. Continental sides are not used to, and do not like, playing against high tempo sides. Our problem is that our players are so are so crap that they cant play any kind of game plan with any great effectiveness.
PS: Northern Ireland drew with Italy tonight. What was our score again?
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Oct 8, 2010 22:25:45 GMT
Load of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 22:27:52 GMT
the moment i saw vaughan and morison in the starting line up.........................
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 22:30:37 GMT
the moment i saw vaughan and morison in the starting line up......................... Ironically Vaughan was one of our better players, certainly more effective in the middle of the pitch than williams! |
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 8, 2010 22:35:05 GMT
I hope Flynn is sacked after that - dreadful. I was hoping for some fresh ideas from him but all we got was some bog standard up and at 'em dross. Williams in midfield was shite beyond belief. It was a minor miracle when one of his passes found a team mate. Even Bale was running around like an idiot. A total mess.
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 8, 2010 22:45:35 GMT
The thing is, I didn't think things looked too different to how they did under Toshack. I was expecting a higher tempo, more urgency, more risk taking. Bale was once again the best of a bad bunch- didn't look like an idiot to me at all.
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 8, 2010 22:48:05 GMT
Au contraire. The pace was too slow at times, as Nathan Blake said: "As a Bulgarian, what would you rather see, a quick ball out of defence up to Morison and a man running off him to pick the ball up....or a slow ball played by Hennessey to Collins to Williams, back to Collins etc." We played to Bulgarias pace for most of the match and it suited them down to the ground. We are not suited to patient football as we simply cannot keep hold of it. Continental sides are not used to, and do not like, playing against high tempo sides. Our problem is that our players are so are so crap that they cant play any kind of game plan with any great effectiveness. PS: Northern Ireland drew with Italy tonight. What was our score again? No, technically good continental sides love playing against sides who play a high tempo. They can just pass it around while the opposition run around like headless chickens. This is one of the fundamental reasons why Ingurland can never get past the quarter finals of a major competition despite their huge resources. The tragedy for us is that Bulgaria are not technically gifted - they are even worse than we are. That's an amazingly banal piece of punditry from Blakey. There was a reason we were playing it around at the back, at times, and that's because Bulgaria sat deep. Hey, they were the away team. Where we were really lacking was in central midfield - absolutely nobody pulling the strings, nobody with any vision. Oh, and bully for NI. If only our brand of up and at 'em was as good as theirs. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 22:50:00 GMT
The thing is, I didn't think things looked too different to how they did under Toshack. I was expecting a higher tempo, more urgency, more risk taking. Bale was once again the best of a bad bunch- didn't look like an idiot to me at all. Exactly, how that can be described as up and at em is beyond me, they werent that bloody urgent! Its basically a case of say hello to the new boss....same as the old boss. But if we dont give it to Flynn, then who DO we give the job to? More to the point, who would even want it? |
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 8, 2010 22:54:32 GMT
Well, John Hartson WANTS it...
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 8, 2010 22:56:02 GMT
The thing is, I didn't think things looked too different to how they did under Toshack. I was expecting a higher tempo, more urgency, more risk taking. Bale was once again the best of a bad bunch- didn't look like an idiot to me at all. How did the game look on the telly because it looked fucking awful in the flesh? Bale didn't produce much end product. He seemed to be playing up front for long periods but that just left us lacking in midfield. I didn't understand the Ledley substitution at all. Edwards should have gone off sooner. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 23:08:21 GMT
Au contraire. The pace was too slow at times, as Nathan Blake said: "As a Bulgarian, what would you rather see, a quick ball out of defence up to Morison and a man running off him to pick the ball up....or a slow ball played by Hennessey to Collins to Williams, back to Collins etc." We played to Bulgarias pace for most of the match and it suited them down to the ground. We are not suited to patient football as we simply cannot keep hold of it. Continental sides are not used to, and do not like, playing against high tempo sides. Our problem is that our players are so are so crap that they cant play any kind of game plan with any great effectiveness. PS: Northern Ireland drew with Italy tonight. What was our score again? No, technically good continental sides love playing against sides who play a high tempo. They can just pass it around while the opposition run around like headless chickens. This is one of the fundamental reasons why Ingurland can never get past the quarter finals of a major competition despite their huge resources. The tragedy for us is that Bulgaria are not technically gifted - they are even worse than we are. That's an amazingly banal piece of punditry from Blakey. There was a reason we were playing it around at the back, at times, and that's because Bulgaria sat deep. Hey, they were the away team. Where we were really lacking was in central midfield - absolutely nobody pulling the strings, nobody with any vision. Oh, and bully for NI. If only our brand of up and at 'em was as good as theirs. How do you stretch opponents if you give them all the time in the world to sit back and get organized? You say there was no-one pulling the strings- who did you expect to pull the strings? It was Ledley Vaughan and Williams in our bloody central midfield! We have no Xavi or Iniesta who can get the cigars out and wait 10 minutes before playing a well crafted through ball. Did you see our movement tonight? Of course you didnt- there wasnt any. So how are we going to create chances playing like that? The most we will achieve is a few sideways passes before losing the ball like we used to do under Tosh. The few times we shifted the ball early we got some crosses in and created a few chances. When you have players like that at your disposal what do you do? You have to play a certain "lowest common denominator" type of game that the players play weak in wek out. Square pegs in square holes and all that. Thats where we are in world football at thehe moment and we have to cut our cloth accordingly. We tried playing like Real Madrid and it was patently obvious that we didnt have the players for it and we couldnt even train the players to do it, not even over a long period of time. Plans like that have to be laid over decades. Just ask the Spanish, to play like they do they had to wait 15 years for a generation to come up through the under 12s playing regularly together and we are expecting players from the depths of the English football pyramid to do it when they see each other every 3 months? Our resources are closer to Northern Ireland than they are to mainland Europe and we have to accept that fact and work within those boundaries. By all means, devise a root and branch upheaval of youth football (I am all in favour of that!) but its not something that can be done over night and will take a long time to bear fruit. We have to do what we can to survive until that point. |
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Post by raptor on Oct 8, 2010 23:17:34 GMT
Au contraire. The pace was too slow at times, as Nathan Blake said: "As a Bulgarian, what would you rather see, a quick ball out of defence up to Morison and a man running off him to pick the ball up....or a slow ball played by Hennessey to Collins to Williams, back to Collins etc." We played to Bulgarias pace for most of the match and it suited them down to the ground. We are not suited to patient football as we simply cannot keep hold of it. Continental sides are not used to, and do not like, playing against high tempo sides. Our problem is that our players are so are so crap that they cant play any kind of game plan with any great effectiveness. PS: Northern Ireland drew with Italy tonight. What was our score again? I completely agree, I spent 6 years defending Tosh before it finally sunk in, we're a long ball out fit who must go 4-4-2. No short passing please, we can't do it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 23:28:48 GMT
Au contraire. The pace was too slow at times, as Nathan Blake said: "As a Bulgarian, what would you rather see, a quick ball out of defence up to Morison and a man running off him to pick the ball up....or a slow ball played by Hennessey to Collins to Williams, back to Collins etc." We played to Bulgarias pace for most of the match and it suited them down to the ground. We are not suited to patient football as we simply cannot keep hold of it. Continental sides are not used to, and do not like, playing against high tempo sides. Our problem is that our players are so are so crap that they cant play any kind of game plan with any great effectiveness. PS: Northern Ireland drew with Italy tonight. What was our score again? I completely agree, I spent 6 years defending Tosh before it finally sunk in, we're a long ball out fit who must go 4-4-2. No short passing please, we can't do it. Agreed. Dont get me wrong, I would love to see us win by passing our opponents off the pitch but we struggle to keep the ball for 5 passes, let alone 12, 15, 17... I dont advocate long ball either, it doesnt have to be that way. Just get the front players MOVING about (radical idea there) and get the ball to them on the deck within 5 or 6 passes on the counter attack. Dont give the opposition time to settle. Is that so difficult? Thats exactly how the under 21s play with reasonable success. im not sure if our players are even capable of finding space though so I dont even think we can play that game plan. Right now I dont know what direction we go in. We are simply hopeless. |
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Post by raptor on Oct 8, 2010 23:33:21 GMT
Our back four are a liability on the ball, therefore they have to bypass everything and lump it forward. One or two touches for controll then hit it down the channels.
Hopefully the striker/s will understand it's about to come down a channel. Lol.
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 8, 2010 23:35:47 GMT
Well, I was hoping Allen would pull the strings actually but he cried off again, the little weed. Williams should never be anchoring our midfield - that was Flynn's decision and it was a poor one. For me Ledley should have been the anchor and Vaughan the playmaker. Flynn didn't offer any new solutions. The team seemed to lack cohesion and was bereft of ideas. Lots of running but no end product. I would rather we play slower and pass the ball, preferably to a team mate. I think you are being a bit negative about our technical abilities - any professional footballer should be able to pass the ball a few metres to a colleague. But the come on lads let's be positive and charge about ethos which Flynn has been broadcasting all week (naively) to the entire world and its mother didn't pay dividends. And it won't against the Swiss either. Flynn out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 23:39:45 GMT
Our back four are a liability on the ball, therefore they have to bypass everything and lump it forward. One or two touches for controll then hit it down the channels. Hopefully the striker/s will understand it's about to come down a channel. Lol. Christ you can say that again! J Collins is an accident waiting to happen, dont know whats up with him these days. Ricketts at cb? Williams distribution was diabolical.... ...Yeah maybe you are right, long ball from back to front. The obvious downside that Ramsey would have to pick up scraps in the midfield. although I dont think Ramsey would have made much difference tonight in all honesty, unless he could bang one in from distance and he doesnt get them regularly enough to consider it a real possibility. |
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Oct 9, 2010 0:25:12 GMT
I actually think that robson kanu looked bright he has abit of pace and should of had at least half an hour i would of brung off ashley williams he is a centre half not def mid. Also i dont know whats going on with james collins and gunter these days they have gone backwards in the red jersey. So gutted i did actually shed a tear on the way home. The way flynn talked before the game so positive all the right vibes and he pulls a shocker uses toshacks system and toshacks players. I really thought he was gunna start maybe King, Kanu, Blake or matthews in the team at least with two up top you know.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 7:07:58 GMT
It was shambolic. Agree with the comments on James Collins and Ricketts and there was just chaos everywhere. Ashley Williams IS NOT a defensive midfield player. Vaughan is not good enough at this level and neither is Morison and why were we playing one up front AT HOME in a game we HAD TO WIN. Flynn talked the talk all week, we had the usual 'training is buzzing etc etc' and ' we are going to attack, attack, attack and then he totally bottled it. Just unbeleivable really. With Allen and Bellamy unavailable there was never going to be enough creativity in the side (I hope Dave Jones is happy now). Agree with Flynnfan to some extent about the 27 February being the end of our qualification hopes but the first three games were always going to define this group for us and it is an unmitigated disaster.
But Toshack was there and I think despite the fact that he is not a motivator he really did care.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 7:49:00 GMT
What the hell was flynn doing? I woke up this morning thinking.. what the hell was all of that shambles ? Danny Collins is shit we dont need him. Everyone depending on Bale to much.. Ricketts center back? stupid.. Ashley Williams defo shouldnt be a defensive midfielder. I dont see what Vaughan did wrong? he's a good player and can find a pass well.. Ledley had an alright game.. Morison cant play on his own up-front.. Church should have started.. and why did he come on instead of edwards as a winger!? ..hmm should be intresting to see how long Bellamy will stick with us now..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 8:24:27 GMT
that was as bad as finland at home no movement no ideas willliams and ricketts had a shocker,bringing in kanu with 5 minutes left when the side was blantly lacking ideas and pace!!So no gunter and no ricketts both suspended hopefully flynn will put matthews in the team for tuesday and put a rocket up the rest of them.Riberio,HRK,matthews and church have to start tuesday and everyone pray that joe allen's fit cause that midfield is shocking!!!
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Post by Tim P on Oct 9, 2010 8:51:33 GMT
danny collins? abysmal. his passing was woeful.
bale? headless chicken performance, all over the place.
morisson? felt sorry for him, totally isolated. he's no drogba, but i think even drogba would have struggled.
vaughan? hopeless. i dont doubt that he tried, but his passing was nowhere near the level required.
edwards, ledley? who?
ash williams? dreadful passing.
flynn? i want to see how he changes things for switzerland. its not over for him yet, but on his first game he absolutely blew it - both in terms of selection and tactics. dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore.
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Post by welsho on Oct 9, 2010 9:01:05 GMT
My opinion on Flynn hasn't changed. I'd be happy for him to get it. I'd prefer an outstanding candidate, such as Martin O'Neill if he'd take it, but I suspect he wouldn't, and I'd prefer Flynn to many others. I also think he's earned it.
As for the performances. I thought Hennessey was good, Gunter was poor but not disastrous apart from the sending off. Danny Collins and Ricketts were pretty ordinary, but James Collins - our best defender - was poor again. He really needs to bring his Premier League form to national duty,
Our biggest problem is Ashley Williams is widely out of position, he is a centre back, not a holding midfielder. He slowed us down, he doesn't have the range of passing or the ball skills that position requires. Vaughan and Ledley had good moments, but in the future will hopefully be squad players for us. Edwards was anonymous and Morison - in our weakest position - was out of his depth and simply is not an international player.
In terms of the group, we're f*****, in terms of the future there's still hope, even after Bellamy, with this sort of team...
Hennessey/Myhill
A. Williams J. Collins
Gunter/Rickets D. Collins
King
Allen Collison Ramsey Bale
Evans/Church
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Post by welsho on Oct 9, 2010 9:03:09 GMT
Oh, and yes I thought Kanu looked promising in his cameo
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 9:03:12 GMT
Well, I was hoping Allen would pull the strings actually but he cried off again, the little weed. Williams should never be anchoring our midfield - that was Flynn's decision and it was a poor one. For me Ledley should have been the anchor and Vaughan the playmaker You're a tool. And not a good one. |
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 9, 2010 11:43:34 GMT
Well, I was hoping Allen would pull the strings actually but he cried off again, the little weed. Williams should never be anchoring our midfield - that was Flynn's decision and it was a poor one. For me Ledley should have been the anchor and Vaughan the playmaker You're a tool. And not a good one. Ooooooooooooh. ;D Having read your embarrassing and childish spat with Storm I really don't think you are in a position to start calling other people a tool. |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2010 12:06:19 GMT
The thing is, I didn't think things looked too different to how they did under Toshack. I said exactly the same to my mate during and after the game. Somewhat disappointed that we played one up front when we needed to win. |
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Post by georgetm1 on Oct 9, 2010 12:54:27 GMT
I still think Flynn is the man for the job. One game is'nt long enough to judge. I thought his formation was wrong and he said a bit too much to the press before the game. But, Bale was double marked all game and could do very little and when Gunter got sent off I thought he took one for the team because it most likely would have been a goal. Also Wales' play was slightly better than under Toshack as they did go in for the tackles and when they messed up they generally made up for it asap. But some of the passing was awful. Flynn has only been with these players for a week and he hasn't been given time to put his stamp on the team. The players still have the old Toshack mentality of giving up as soon as things go wrong and its going to take more than two games to fix it.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2010 17:43:39 GMT
It would be rather harsh to not offer the job to Flynn in spite of last night's result, bearing in mind what he did with the kids.
However, I'm not certain, after the last couple of weeks, that he really has it in him to manage the senior side.
Not just talking about the game last night, but also the way he apparently submitted to Dave Jones's will over the Bellamy affair. Toshack, for all his faults, wouldn't have done that.
It's a very important campaign for us - we need to get as many points as possible to try and at least stay in the fourth pot of seeds, or else we will have a mountain to climb to qualify (or even attain respectability) next time. Our next permanent appointment as manager really counts, and as much as I would like to see Flynn get it and be successful, we have to appoint the person we think will do the best job for us.
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Post by muaythai on Oct 9, 2010 18:25:05 GMT
its sad times for welsh fans yet again  i am totally deflated |
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Post by muaythai on Oct 9, 2010 18:43:33 GMT
Everything looked extremely familiar last night after all the promise from flynn to play attacking, exciting , passionate football we got exactly the same rubbish as when tosh was in charge.
It was cringe worthy to watch and mr flynn unfortunately doesnt look like he has what it takes to sort this shambles out.
I however will be supporting the team once again on tuesday in the hope we can perform a minor mIracle in basle.
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i am totally deflated