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Post by idiot on Oct 9, 2010 19:02:02 GMT
i've been left uncertain about flynn due to his lack of action over bellamy rather than the result,realistically it was always going to be hard for him,it will take time for him or whoever takes over to get his idea's/style of play over to the players,it looked to me like flynn had decided to go with what was familiar to the players and obviously it didnt work
hopefully he will have learnt that it doesnt work and try something else come tuesday night
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Post by muaythai on Oct 9, 2010 19:08:57 GMT
yeha mate i just hope he tries something different and if we do fail at least there was a different approach, if we win we are still in it draw or lose and its over.
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 9, 2010 19:09:18 GMT
It felt to me that as if he felt he had to do something 'clever' to try and prove he was up to the job tactically. Although he talked the talk, when it came to the crunch he didn't trust his attacking instincts. At times he's changed the system with the U21s- like when he played 3 up against Bosnia recently- it hasn't worked. Just because 4-4-2 is not fashionable doesn't mean that it can never work.
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Post by idiot on Oct 9, 2010 19:18:08 GMT
It felt to me that as if he felt he had to do something 'clever' to try and prove he was up to the job tactically. Although he talked the talk, when it came to the crunch he didn't trust his attacking instincts. At times he's changed the system with the U21s- like when he played 3 up against Bosnia recently- it hasn't worked. Just because 4-4-2 is not fashionable doesn't mean that it can never work. may be something in that aswell,when you think about it,this is the biggest job he's ever had and the pressure of that might make him freeze and not go with his instinct |
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Post by llannerch on Oct 9, 2010 19:24:48 GMT
It would be rather harsh to not offer the job to Flynn in spite of last night's result, bearing in mind what he did with the kids. However, I'm not certain, after the last couple of weeks, that he really has it in him to manage the senior side. Not just talking about the game last night, but also the way he apparently submitted to Dave Jones's will over the Bellamy affair. Toshack, for all his faults, wouldn't have done that. It's a very important campaign for us - we need to get as many points as possible to try and at least stay in the fourth pot of seeds, or else we will have a mountain to climb to qualify (or even attain respectability) next time. Our next permanent appointment as manager really counts, and as much as I would like to see Flynn get it and be successful, we have to appoint the person we think will do the best job for us. You contradict yourself repeatedly in a single post. Flynn is either up to the job or he's not. Make your mind up |
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Post by cymru on Oct 10, 2010 20:42:08 GMT
I only got back from Cardiff this afternoon and I have to say Friday night was just depressing.
The performance was absolute shite. Bale was the only player we had who looked decent, and the few times when I just watched him you could tell by his body language how frustrated he was.
The atmosphere in the stadium was extremely poor. Throughout the first half people were leaving their seats to go and get a drink or food, and some people were just talking among themselves.
To the fans at the top of the Canton stand, I applaud you. You really made an effort to get some chants going. But the people around me at the bottom of the stand .. or in any of the other stands just weren't having it.
I left the stadium feeling really down wondering how the hell have we got to this point? I'm 23 now and have been watching Wales since a very young age, and yes there have been times when we've been very, very bad, but this is just on another level.
I'm finding it really difficult to be positive about the future of Welsh football, and that is a horrible feeling.
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Post by llannerch on Oct 11, 2010 11:56:42 GMT
Anyone know what tai33stashon thought about the game? He's not posted for a while
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jon6a
the carls
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Post by jon6a on Oct 11, 2010 12:04:58 GMT
Anyone know what tai33stashon thought about the game? He's not posted for a while Something along the lines of "bestest gahme in a while bruv" |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2010 12:08:03 GMT
Anyone know what tai33stashon thought about the game? He's not posted for a while Probably too busy watching britains under 21s beat romania |
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Post by youngdragon on Oct 11, 2010 12:10:20 GMT
not britans u21 its engalnds u21
it will only be britans u21 when either scotalnd, northen ireland or we qualify
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Post by saints19 on Oct 12, 2010 0:04:12 GMT
It would be rather harsh to not offer the job to Flynn in spite of last night's result, bearing in mind what he did with the kids. However, I'm not certain, after the last couple of weeks, that he really has it in him to manage the senior side. Not just talking about the game last night, but also the way he apparently submitted to Dave Jones's will over the Bellamy affair. Toshack, for all his faults, wouldn't have done that. It's a very important campaign for us - we need to get as many points as possible to try and at least stay in the fourth pot of seeds, or else we will have a mountain to climb to qualify (or even attain respectability) next time. Our next permanent appointment as manager really counts, and as much as I would like to see Flynn get it and be successful, we have to appoint the person we think will do the best job for us. You contradict yourself repeatedly in a single post. Flynn is either up to the job or he's not. Make your mind up There's no contradiction there because in the first instance I am saying that, morally speaking, Flynn could justifiably feel aggreived if he were not considered after two defeats when Toshack has had six years. But also, in the second instance, I say that I myself have doubts about his ability to do the job at an important time, and so that for the overall benefit of the national side, we might have to bite the bullet and not retain Flynn if we fail to get anything frm the Swiss. This is, again, not in contradiction to the principle of wanting to see Flynn succeed, which I also stated in my post. Just that, if he doesn't succeed tomorrow, we might have to make a tough, and arguably unfair, decsion. Those views might superficially appear contradictory, but in fact they are not. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 0:28:46 GMT
not britans u21 its engalnds u21 it will only be britans u21 when either scotalnd, northen ireland or we qualify I was being sarcastic lol  |
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Post by Tim P on Oct 12, 2010 21:34:18 GMT
1 - the players are behind him. these days, i don't think layers bother backing a manager they don't like - they either kill him with silence or come out a blast him. or retire.
2 - there was an improvement from bulgaria to switzerland. how often can this be said of us under Tosh?
3 - flynn needs to work with the full squad. i am convinced that if Ramsey was playing, we would have beaten Bulgaria and got something from this game.
4 - he doesn't play favourites - ledley subbed against bulgaria, ditto blake tonight; both for poor performances / tactical reasons.
5 - the tempo HAS increased, now it's a matter of him implementing his patterns.
6 - the alternatives to flynn are pretty awful.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 12, 2010 21:41:26 GMT
All those points are reasonable enough except 2), 5) and 6). Tonight wasn't an improvement on Friday, save perhaps for the fact we scored. And there are alternatives out there - not perhaps big names as such, but decent managers with experience at this level. The tempo increasing isn't necessarily a good thing - we looked knackered by 70 mins tonight.
Oh, and 3) is a hypothetical, which really you can't build a solid argument on.
Number 1), I commented on in another thread - I don't necessarily think that the players publicly backing Flynn is indicative of their true private feelings on the matter.
So basically, I agree with 4), but that's it.
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Post by cardibach on Oct 12, 2010 21:50:29 GMT
Just to argue against (4), - Ashley Williams?
Left on against Bulgaria, even though he was out of his depth.
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Post by raptor on Oct 12, 2010 21:57:57 GMT
1. I think most of the players are behind him but not all, especially Bellend.
2. We lost 1-0 on Friday and 4-1 tonight, not an improvement, results matter and not performances.
3. 20 odd players out again, some are injured but not all. Ramsey would've made a huge difference, you're right.
4. Agreed - however he will soon have his own favourites as anyone would.
5. Agreed.
6. Agreed - possibly this is Flynn's strongest card.
Other than that he gave you the impression that he's completely new to the role when the truth is he's been closely involved with both the players and setup for over 6 years. Not good.
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Post by raptor on Oct 12, 2010 21:59:47 GMT
We just need a first 11 to fucking turn up. It's so annoying we aint half as bad as it looks.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 12, 2010 22:06:56 GMT
Just to argue against (4), - Ashley Williams? Left on against Bulgaria, even though he was out of his depth. Oh, I forgot about that! So yeah, I disagree with all of the points. Sorry Trendy. |
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 12, 2010 22:23:19 GMT
Ramsey would make a huge difference. We offer nothing down the middle. Did we even force a free-kick on goal tonight? Can't remember one. We also need a right-sided player. Even Cotterill would make a difference. We have been totally ineffectual on the right flank in both games. I could kill Simon Davies.
As for Flynn - no. Too naive.
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Post by idiot on Oct 12, 2010 22:37:05 GMT
flynn coming in reminds me of when gordon brown took over from blair..he'd waited his entire career for that moment but when it came the previous man had left him such a mess that it was impossible to do the job he'd waited so long for
i just hope flynn doesnt end up calling old ladies bigots
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Post by oldy180 on Oct 12, 2010 22:40:29 GMT
Agree with all points trendy. clearly the players are behind him and despite a dissapointing result, the performance was a vast improvement on both montenegro & bulgaria. I've been watching wales for over 20yrs and i cant remember such a positive and attacking performance from us away before. The defence let us down tonight, williams was simply not good enough, J Collins is struggling and both fullbacks where constantly caught out of position, but these where individual errors and nothing flynn can do about it so soon into his tenure. given time the players will get used to each other (10 days to get a back 4 working in tandem? aint gonna happen sorry) and the defensive side will improve.
When we have a fully fit 11 available, i would love to see these positive tactics applied again and i will guarentee that when messrs bellamy, ramsey, collison etc etc are back we will piss the celtic cup and frighten the bejesus out of inglund. if we dont win the celtic cup i will buy all welsh fans in dublin a pint of the blackstuff. flynn's gotta be kept on for me!
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Post by yrarglwyddlucan on Oct 12, 2010 22:47:24 GMT
So Flynn is to be excused blame for a disorganised defence! He picked them after coaching them. Williams and Collins and Collins do alright for their clubs. Flynn picked Blake ahead of Ribeiro. He picked Cornell ahead of Myhill. That's laughable and insulting.
The next appointment need not be long-term but needs to be able to organise the defence.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 22:55:00 GMT
So Flynn is to be excused blame for a disorganised defence! He picked them after coaching them. Williams and Collins and Collins do alright for their clubs. Flynn picked Blake ahead of Ribeiro. He picked Cornell ahead of Myhill. That's laughable and insulting. The next appointment need not be long-term but needs to be able to organise the defence. Fair point to an extent, picking Collins at CB was going to be a risk after his last two performances and he was truly appalling tonight. Cornell was picked because Myhill developed an injury. Hopefully thats the last we have seen of Hennessey until he cements down a starting spot for Wolves. His distribution was diabolical and constantly put us under needless pressure. As far as the defence goes, I dont see why Flynn or whoever cant bring in someone like Ratcliffe to do some defensive coaching. Its possible that were we better at the back you would be able to make a better case for Flynn keeping his job. Our attacking attitude tonight was totally undermined by the fact that everytime Switzerland came forward there was no confidence in the defence stopping them. |
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Post by caradocevans on Oct 12, 2010 22:55:19 GMT
In fairness to Danny Collins he linked up much better with Bale this time. I don't want to seem like I'm picking on Ashley Williams but he was awful at times - like a frightened rabbit in headlights. James Collins was iffy. Blake was industrious but made a couple of crucial errors. Ribeiro terrified me when he came on. I kept looking at the right-back spot and he wasn't there. Looked comfortable on the ball, though - might be better employed as a centre-half.
Oldy, our performances against Russia and Germany away from home under Toshack were both better than tonight's fayre. You couldn't fault our effort mind. And it was better than the Bulgaria mess.
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Post by oldy180 on Oct 12, 2010 23:03:22 GMT
yes flynn can be excused. you cant get an organised defence of 4 players working in tandem, stepping out the same time for offsides etc,DCollins positioning when bales attacking, 21 yr old blake making his international debut with players he hasnt played with before in an intimidating atmosphere, J collins horibly out of form for Villa and williams who wouldnt win a header with a midget.
Blake ahead of Ribeiro is not insulting. Blake by all accounts has been brilliant for cardiff playing regulary and ribiero, although has been playing well for bristol, has just returned from injury.
West brom reserve and welsh substitute Glyn 'Boaz' Myhill didnt come into my original reply as i was mearly focusing on the back 4, where i cant see that Flynn had many more alternatives. With time the defense will become organised.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 23:10:11 GMT
yes flynn can be excused. you cant get an organised defence of 4 players working in tandem, stepping out the same time for offsides etc,DCollins positioning when bales attacking, 21 yr old blake making his international debut with players he hasnt played with before in an intimidating atmosphere, J collins horibly out of form for Villa and williams who wouldnt win a header with a midget. Blake ahead of Ribeiro is not insulting. Blake by all accounts has been brilliant for cardiff playing regulary and ribiero, although has been playing well for bristol, has just returned from injury. West brom reserve and welsh substitute Glyn 'Boaz' Myhill didnt come into my original reply as i was mearly focusing on the back 4, where i cant see that Flynn had many more alternatives. With time the defense will become organised. Maybe the wrong game for it but I thought he could have put D Collins at centre back (where he is a better player imo) or played Craig Morgan ahead of James Collins. Collins keeps costing us and seems to keep his place on the basis that he plays in the prem. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2010 16:30:20 GMT
Agree with 1,4,5,6 - less so with 2 & 3.
It must be Flynn to continue though.
We will turns things around pretty soon the way we played last night. As fluid as I have seen a welsh team play. So much more belief in the players under Flynn which just seeped away a bit in the second half. Cut out the sloppy defence and find a couple of strikers now and we will be there.
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Post by welshwizard79 on Oct 16, 2010 12:18:34 GMT
Flynn was my main favourite to take the job and make a difference but know I feel he's really blown his chance, Seeing him on Sport Wales last night made me cringe so much. Its like he had interview lessons from Tosh on how to make a tit of yourself. The reporter was right to ask those questions cos its the worse start to a campaign in 40 years. His squad selection was naive and calling up players like Doble and 2 uncapped keepers in his intial selection when them places could have gone to the likes of Savage who could have boosted the teams experience. I think Flynn should return to the 21s and youth set up were he was top class and they should bring in a new face.
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 16, 2010 13:23:38 GMT
Don't see it that way at all. The guy was basically asking him the same thing again and again. Flynn made it clear that the only thing we need to gain is a winning mentality and there's not too much wrong with 'the system' (see our 16's beating England 4-0 for proof) I got the impression the interviewer wanted to hear someone say that everything needs ripping up, and we need someone to come in and wave a magic wand around and then we'll be fine. Well, sorry Mr BBC wales reporter, but it aint like that.
Bear in mind that it took Flynn time to get things on the right track with Wrexham, Swansea and the U21s. He took over teams that were all used to losing lots of matches and was able to bring a winning mentality eventally. I'd back him to do the same with the seniors.
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Post by welsho on Oct 16, 2010 16:24:27 GMT
Hope you're right. You can't have six stars for nothing! I'd be prepared to give Flynn time personally
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