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Post by bale-droed on Sept 14, 2010 23:30:00 GMT
i was in butlins this weekend (not giving you my life story just reasons to this thread) and i spoke to a reading fan who was terrified simon church was going soon. he said the stupidest thing england have done for years is not notice him! and that next summer he will be with one of the big clubs! and that all reading fans think that. he also said hal robson kanu wont be a championship player forever he wont be world class but a premiership player for most of his career and again all realistic reading fans think that.
and then an everton fan told me that there are so many everton fans that cant wait for nathan craig to be given a decent chance. in his words "nathan craig is the best think to come out of our academy since rooney,forgett rodwell and gosling craig will be the man"
so not exactly a world famous pundits words but england fans think we have some big potential in our players! and i dont know any of you in person but i wanted to start this thread to show people who have been doubting simon church as of late to chill out, and to give him some time, he will great by the sounds of things!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2010 23:48:58 GMT
i was in butlins this weekend (not giving you my life story just reasons to this thread) and i spoke to a reading fan who was terrified simon church was going soon. he said the stupidest thing england have done for years is not notice him! and that next summer he will be with one of the big clubs! and that all reading fans think that. he also said hal robson kanu wont be a championship player forever he wont be world class but a premiership player for most of his career and again all realistic reading fans think that. and then an everton fan told me that there are so many everton fans that cant wait for nathan craig to be given a decent chance. in his words "nathan craig is the best think to come out of our academy since rooney,forgett rodwell and gosling craig will be the man" so not exactly a world famous pundits words but england fans think we have some big potential in our players! and i dont know any of you in person but i wanted to start this thread to show people who have been doubting simon church as of late to chill out, and to give him some time, he will great by the sounds of things! To be fair I think its only me on here who doesnt rate Church, he just seems to have gone backwards from the player who terrorised England Under 21s who, imo, was better than Ramsey over the 2 legs. He was ok against Montenegro but against Italy under 21s offered very little up front and we never hear of any rumoured interest from the premiership let alone concrete interest. Robson-Kanu could get to the premiership, but I cant see him as a good goal scorer, a very good support striker though if he improves his link up play, the ball just sticks to him, a rare ability. Theres been a lot of criticism of Ched from the Sheffield United fans, especially after tonight. I wonder if he will be out on loan soon in League one or two, try and get him scoring goals again, build up some confidence. Seeing Kings lobbed finish from an acute angle the other day I would be very interested to see how it went if he, Church and Evans were given 10 one-on-ones each to see who hand the highest scoring ratio. Overall I really fear for us in the striking department. Its not really fair on the young players that we have to rely on them so heavily as they should not be under this much scrutiny until they are 23 or so, but unfortunately thats the way it is. So we really need to see the likes of Church developing fast, but I personally see nothing but an average championship/league one striker who will get you a handful of goals per season but nothing out of the ordinary. Love to be proved wrong though |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 0:11:29 GMT
And I have to add ljd90, that I just had a quick browse of a Reading forum and they dont seem at all happy with churchs recent form, played in all their games this season and not a single goal- shocking against Northampton in the cup apparently and one fan even wrote "when was the last time Church had a good game" after tonights game v Millwall and another saying Church "couldnt do anything right and looked out of his depth".
The worrying thing for me is that Morison is in form and scoring goals in the championship and yet he is struggling to get the same returns at international level so what does that say for Ched and Church who dont have a goal between them?
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Post by bale-droed on Sept 15, 2010 0:21:24 GMT
well i could say maybe the reading forum fans are just armchair fans? but saying the we are on a forum and we all seem to go to games.
i guess all we can do is wait and see what happens but i rate church i really do
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Post by raptor on Sept 15, 2010 8:43:37 GMT
i was in butlins this weekend (not giving you my life story just reasons to this thread) and i spoke to a reading fan who was terrified simon church was going soon. he said the stupidest thing england have done for years is not notice him! and that next summer he will be with one of the big clubs! and that all reading fans think that. he also said hal robson kanu wont be a championship player forever he wont be world class but a premiership player for most of his career and again all realistic reading fans think that. and then an everton fan told me that there are so many everton fans that cant wait for nathan craig to be given a decent chance. in his words "nathan craig is the best think to come out of our academy since rooney,forgett rodwell and gosling craig will be the man" so not exactly a world famous pundits words but england fans think we have some big potential in our players! and i dont know any of you in person but i wanted to start this thread to show people who have been doubting simon church as of late to chill out, and to give him some time, he will great by the sounds of things! I think Churchy is a natural mate, I won't diss him! |
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Post by raptor on Sept 15, 2010 8:46:09 GMT
And I have to add ljd90, that I just had a quick browse of a Reading forum and they dont seem at all happy with churchs recent form, played in all their games this season and not a single goal- shocking against Northampton in the cup apparently and one fan even wrote "when was the last time Church had a good game" after tonights game v Millwall and another saying Church "couldnt do anything right and looked out of his depth". The worrying thing for me is that Morison is in form and scoring goals in the championship and yet he is struggling to get the same returns at international level so what does that say for Ched and Church who dont have a goal between them? Strewth, Morison has only just started with Wales. More time needed to assess him methinks. |
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 15, 2010 8:50:26 GMT
storm?
church was ok against montenagro?
so coming on in the last 9/10 minutes and hitting the crossbar and having a goal ruled out only counts as ok?
given how the rest of the team was playing id say he was our best player certainly better than 'ok'
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Post by matty on Sept 15, 2010 12:19:20 GMT
Forget who is the best striker for a moment...who would make a pairing, if two up front is used? Morison and Earnshaw should work on paper, but not in reality. I'd go for Morison and Church at this moment.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 13:04:57 GMT
storm? church was ok against montenagro? so coming on in the last 9/10 minutes and hitting the crossbar and having a goal ruled out only counts as ok? given how the rest of the team was playing id say he was our best player certainly better than 'ok' The goal was ruled out because he was blatantly offside so he gets no points for that in my book. He played about 5 minutes so calling him the best player on the pitch is a bit far-fetched considering Bale did well for the whole 90 (not as good as for spurs admittedly). I guarantee you the longer the game went on the worse Church would have got, when you bear in mind that 3 days later he played 90 minutes and everytime he was in screenshot he was being marked and was vitrtually anonymous all game. He just seems to have very little ability to find space and thats why I have doubts about his long term ability, he is very one dimensional and doesnt really offer us a lot. He is also chronically out of any form so I really couldnt understand starting with him against Bulgaria. Forget who is the best striker for a moment...who would make a pairing, if two up front is used? Morison and Earnshaw should work on paper, but not in reality. I'd go for Morison and Church at this moment. Morison and Bellamy as a front pairing. As I said above Church is chronically out of form according to the Reading fans. Bellars and Morison, at club level at least, are causing problems and they have the right "little and large" balance that should make them a good partnership. |
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Post by llannerch on Sept 15, 2010 13:18:08 GMT
i was in butlins this weekend (not giving you my life story just reasons to this thread) and i spoke to a reading fan who was terrified simon church was going soon. he said the stupidest thing england have done for years is not notice him! and that next summer he will be with one of the big clubs! and that all reading fans think that. he also said hal robson kanu wont be a championship player forever he wont be world class but a premiership player for most of his career and again all realistic reading fans think that. and then an everton fan told me that there are so many everton fans that cant wait for nathan craig to be given a decent chance. in his words "nathan craig is the best think to come out of our academy since rooney,forgett rodwell and gosling craig will be the man" so not exactly a world famous pundits words but england fans think we have some big potential in our players! and i dont know any of you in person but i wanted to start this thread to show people who have been doubting simon church as of late to chill out, and to give him some time, he will great by the sounds of things! All this is fine, but it begs the question....which Butlins mate? |
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Post by bale-droed on Sept 15, 2010 13:39:00 GMT
i was in butlins this weekend (not giving you my life story just reasons to this thread) and i spoke to a reading fan who was terrified simon church was going soon. he said the stupidest thing england have done for years is not notice him! and that next summer he will be with one of the big clubs! and that all reading fans think that. he also said hal robson kanu wont be a championship player forever he wont be world class but a premiership player for most of his career and again all realistic reading fans think that. and then an everton fan told me that there are so many everton fans that cant wait for nathan craig to be given a decent chance. in his words "nathan craig is the best think to come out of our academy since rooney,forgett rodwell and gosling craig will be the man" so not exactly a world famous pundits words but england fans think we have some big potential in our players! and i dont know any of you in person but i wanted to start this thread to show people who have been doubting simon church as of late to chill out, and to give him some time, he will great by the sounds of things! All this is fine, but it begs the question....which Butlins mate? bognor regis naughty adults weekend id recommend it they love a welsh accent! anyway. storm they can be less than impressed with his recent form, but overall they could still be thinking he is a big big promising player and against montenegro he proved he should start under flynn. |
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 20, 2010 11:16:29 GMT
this is an interesting thread in that I've had similar conversations about some of our youg players with English people...although not in Butlins!
When I say I go to Wales games, often the reaction from other Welsh people( and I'm not having a go at our hardcore- just those Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea supporting plastics who prefer to stay home to watch England on telly then watch their national side - you know the type) is something like 'why do you bother?, we're shit, we've always been shit, we'll always be shit, all our players are shit, why don't you support rugby instead, blah, blah, blah. whereas I've had conversations with quite a few English people along the lines of 'Wales have got some really good players- Bale, Bellamy, Ramsey, why aren't you doing better? Looks like you'll have a good team in a few years time, etc
Church was better than any of Englands strikers in that U21 play off. I think he'll be a very, very good player for us.
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Post by caradocevans on Sept 20, 2010 11:27:56 GMT
storm? church was ok against montenagro? so coming on in the last 9/10 minutes and hitting the crossbar and having a goal ruled out only counts as ok? given how the rest of the team was playing id say he was our best player certainly better than 'ok' He came on an looked lively when everybody else was shagged out but could he take the battering of being a lone striker for 90 mins. I'm not so sure. |
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Post by ericyoung on Sept 20, 2010 17:08:50 GMT
maybe we should give him a shot and find out? Couldn't hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2010 14:45:02 GMT
Better one of our young guns than a morison or earnshaw - that's like admitting defeat.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2010 15:01:29 GMT
Better one of our young guns than a morison or earnshaw - that's like admitting defeat. "Thats like admitting defeat". How ironic. Morison is the only one with any kind of form at club level at the moment. Ched gets ironically applauded, Church has been dropped. Vokes is injured. Whats Jake Cassidy up to these days? |
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 21, 2010 15:10:03 GMT
so morrison can score at championship level but not at intenational level= he is not good enough to play international football
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2010 15:30:38 GMT
so morrison can score at championship level but not at intenational level= he is not good enough to play international football Interesting that you say that Morison cant score at international level after only two appearances, Ched has 12 with just 2 goals and Church has 8 with just 1 goal. So who cant score at international level now? Morison at least has other useful attributes, strength and heading- what lets him down is his ridiculous touch. For me he is the best out of a very bad bunch. Another thing to chew on is Eastwoods record - 9 appearances, 4 goals. And two of them were beauts, yet he has absolutely no chance of being called up again. Unbelievable really. |
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Post by bale-droed on Sept 21, 2010 23:41:59 GMT
eastwood needs another chance in a friendly.
imagine he was like healy and could just turn it on at international level
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 0:36:28 GMT
eastwood needs another chance in a friendly. imagine he was like healy and could just turn it on at international level Can you believe how crap Healy is at club level? Never been prolific in the championship even, yet I would cut my arm off for him to Welsh. I would like Eastwood to be given another crack because unlike the others we know he has cut it at international level, off his own back as well. Problem is I read on here that he has ruled himself out until he finds some form. Cant see that happening unless he drops down to league one to get some confidence. Lets be honest though, the fact that Eastwood is the most viable thing we have to a prolific striker is really worrying. Now is the time to start scrutinising some family trees because we have problems. |
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 22, 2010 11:29:14 GMT
i like eastwood aswell
his form for wales is 4 in 10?
which is excellent really but i dont see him getting another chance at this level unless he finds form
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Post by llannerch on Sept 22, 2010 11:33:43 GMT
eastwood needs another chance in a friendly. imagine he was like healy and could just turn it on at international level Can you believe how crap Healy is at club level? Never been prolific in the championship even, yet I would cut my arm off for him to Welsh. I would like Eastwood to be given another crack because unlike the others we know he has cut it at international level, off his own back as well. Problem is I read on here that he has ruled himself out until he finds some form. Cant see that happening unless he drops down to league one to get some confidence. Lets be honest though, the fact that Eastwood is the most viable thing we have to a prolific striker is really worrying. Now is the time to start scrutinising some family trees because we have problems. Isn't the problem more a case of not creating enough chances as a team, rather than individual deficiencies? |
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 22, 2010 13:00:10 GMT
exactley llannerch
a striker is as only as good as the service he gets
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 22, 2010 16:30:56 GMT
I read a report which commented on Morisons lovely touch for his goal last night! Suprised me a little that, but credit where its due- the lad's already got 5 goals this season and if he keeps it up he'll go into the Bulgaria game full of confidence...which is perhaps something our younger strikers are really lacking at this point in time. Although, could Flynn be the man to ignite Cheds international career?! 13 goals in 13 games at u21 levels not a bad record, is it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:37:35 GMT
I read a report which commented on Morisons lovely touch for his goal last night! Suprised me a little that, but credit where its due- the lad's already got 5 goals this season and if he keeps it up he'll go into the Bulgaria game full of confidence...which is perhaps something our younger strikers are really lacking at this point in time. Although, could Flynn be the man to ignite Cheds international career?! 13 goals in 13 games at u21 levels not a bad record, is it? Its a totally different standard though in all honesty, a few of those goals would have been against your maltas and your Luxembourgs who probably dont have any under 21s playing first team top flight football. Same with your mid strength sides like Bosnia and Hungary. His goal against France was class mind, he doesnt seem to have that deftness of touch anymore. Is it a confidence thing? Or has he gone backwards? You certainly couldnt imagine him popping one of those in for Sheff Utd this weekend. Same as Church after the Under 21s play-off. Looks half the player these days and is struggling according to Reading fans. I agree that we rarely if ever make cast iron chances- but is that not even more reason to look at players who offer us other options? Morison has his strength and height (dubious touch). Whilst Eastwood can create goals from 25 yards out with nothing on (or at least used to  ). Im sorry to say that if Ched and Church arent scoring I dont think they offer us much around the pitch. Same with Earnshaw- great attitude, great servant, but a luxury player when we cant lay it on a plate for him. |
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 23, 2010 12:52:36 GMT
Ched- hattrick vs France
Church- 3 goals in 2 games vs England
Vokes- Hartsonesque performance in victory over Italy.
I don't think we should be so dismissive of our young strikers u21 records.
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Post by bale-droed on Sept 23, 2010 13:57:38 GMT
where was drogba when he was 21,22,23,24,25,26? playing for guingamp.
berbatov was a leverkusen bench warmer at 22,23
if the experts are telling us church,evans and even vokes have a bright future. then i think i'll listen to them.
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 23, 2010 14:17:01 GMT
they are not that great they are just big and powerful and in the 'modern' game that is the most important thing
just throw thier weight around
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Post by muaythai on Sept 23, 2010 14:28:39 GMT
they are not that great they are just big and powerful and in the 'modern' game that is the most important thing just throw thier weight around very true that mate even at amateur etc ,im 6'4'' and played in america in college and for yeovil town youth for a while when i was 17 and they just cant deal with big awkward forwards who can play a bit, you cause havoc. |
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Post by youngdragon on Sept 23, 2010 15:46:59 GMT
exactley id much prefer a little fella like bellams who can actually play
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).