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Post by conwy10 on Oct 16, 2023 17:49:32 GMT
I'm not sure we should be taking odd results in isolation as proof the system is working. We need to be qualifying to show the success. I'm not convinced of Page, but as long as we qualify thats all that matters. we've taken 4 points off croatia, second in the group - possible to win it we've won 3 and drawn 1 of the last 4 games the odd result was Armenia that we can't let go of oh and conceded 1 goal whilst scoring 8 When you pick and choose the timeline it will fit. Taking the last 4 matches when he's had a pretty shocking run since we qualified for the World Cup. I'm impressed with the Croatia results, but you cant ignore the loss against Armenia, who we still need to play. It could be the difference between going to the Euros or not. Before the South Korea match I heard something like that we'd won 2 in 13 was it? We suddenly beat Latvia, Croatia and everything is right with the world and the system is a proven success. I think we should wait until the campaign is over now before we see him as either ruining Welsh football or the genius thats had this worked out from the start. For me I can ignore that humiliating home loss as long as if in the end it didnt make a difference. If we sit out the Euros because of that result than I'm sorry but it's cost us big time. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 16, 2023 18:17:14 GMT
we've taken 4 points off croatia, second in the group - possible to win it we've won 3 and drawn 1 of the last 4 games the odd result was Armenia that we can't let go of oh and conceded 1 goal whilst scoring 8 When you pick and choose the timeline it will fit. Taking the last 4 matches when he's had a pretty shocking run since we qualified for the World Cup. I'm impressed with the Croatia results, but you cant ignore the loss against Armenia, who we still need to play. It could be the difference between going to the Euros or not. Before the South Korea match I heard something like that we'd won 2 in 13 was it? We suddenly beat Latvia, Croatia and everything is right with the world and the system is a proven success. I think we should wait until the campaign is over now before we see him as either ruining Welsh football or the genius thats had this worked out from the start. For me I can ignore that humiliating home loss as long as if in the end it didnt make a difference. If we sit out the Euros because of that result than I'm sorry but it's cost us big time. yes draws and losses against england, belgium, holland and poland. yes that stat is correct but doesn't tell the full picture of us writing off games to keep players fit for the playoffs or for the world cup plus the opposition listed above we qualified for the world cup of course its a success its easy to say one loss cost us and miss out the good results isn't it. Trouble is those Croatia results matter more than the armenia loss. |
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 18:32:12 GMT
Anyone else already more impressed with the way Robert Page speaks with the media compared to Mr Giggs? RG is still early into his managment career and he has improved on that front tbf  No - he is too emotional and says too much at times. Perhaps I need to be more touchy feely though! |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 17, 2023 10:46:07 GMT
When you pick and choose the timeline it will fit. Taking the last 4 matches when he's had a pretty shocking run since we qualified for the World Cup. I'm impressed with the Croatia results, but you cant ignore the loss against Armenia, who we still need to play. It could be the difference between going to the Euros or not. Before the South Korea match I heard something like that we'd won 2 in 13 was it? We suddenly beat Latvia, Croatia and everything is right with the world and the system is a proven success. I think we should wait until the campaign is over now before we see him as either ruining Welsh football or the genius thats had this worked out from the start. For me I can ignore that humiliating home loss as long as if in the end it didnt make a difference. If we sit out the Euros because of that result than I'm sorry but it's cost us big time. yes draws and losses against england, belgium, holland and poland. yes that stat is correct but doesn't tell the full picture of us writing off games to keep players fit for the playoffs or for the world cup plus the opposition listed above we qualified for the world cup of course its a success its easy to say one loss cost us and miss out the good results isn't it. Trouble is those Croatia results matter more than the armenia loss. Loses to Iran, Armenia, Turkey. I think those do tell the whole picture. Qualifying for the World Cup was a massive achievement for us I'll agree, but our only loses werent in matches we had written off. A lot of our performances had been awful. I'm delighted with the Croatia win, but if the Armenia loss prevents us from qualifying then surely youre in agreement that it cost us big time and can't just be forgotten about. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 17, 2023 13:14:13 GMT
yes draws and losses against england, belgium, holland and poland. yes that stat is correct but doesn't tell the full picture of us writing off games to keep players fit for the playoffs or for the world cup plus the opposition listed above we qualified for the world cup of course its a success its easy to say one loss cost us and miss out the good results isn't it. Trouble is those Croatia results matter more than the armenia loss. Loses to Iran, Armenia, Turkey. I think those do tell the whole picture. Qualifying for the World Cup was a massive achievement for us I'll agree, but our only loses werent in matches we had written off. A lot of our performances had been awful. I'm delighted with the Croatia win, but if the Armenia loss prevents us from qualifying then surely youre in agreement that it cost us big time and can't just be forgotten about. not really as Iran are Asia best team, and turkey are top of our group. These are no mugs. We wrote matches off for Ukraine, we played, england, belgium, holland and Poland? Which matches do you think we should we b winning from that group? We didnt lose them all either. no 4 points are unexpected from croatia so really you could say that armies loss has spurred us on to beat croatia - it clearly has. Win against armenia would we have been up for the croatia game? Its a qualification campaign and it doesn't rest on one result its the campaign. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Oct 17, 2023 20:23:02 GMT
Dragon… as good as the Croatia win was the fact it was a MUST win tells us all we need to know. The campaign has been littered with nervy unprofessional performances punctuated by two decent ones against Croatia.
Page is a proud Welshman but let’s not suddenly pretend he’s the next Wenger
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Post by njdragon on Oct 18, 2023 5:19:00 GMT
Dragon… as good as the Croatia win was the fact it was a MUST win tells us all we need to know. The campaign has been littered with nervy unprofessional performances punctuated by two decent ones against Croatia. Page is a proud Welshman but let’s not suddenly pretend he’s the next Wenger He was trying out a new formation against supposedly weaker opposition, we had to do this after losing key players. It didn’t work, even the best managers will trip up. Things have been tweaked and We’ve just won 3 on the bounce. And yes as much as he isn’t wenger remember… we’re also not arsenal |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 18, 2023 12:00:30 GMT
Loses to Iran, Armenia, Turkey. I think those do tell the whole picture. Qualifying for the World Cup was a massive achievement for us I'll agree, but our only loses werent in matches we had written off. A lot of our performances had been awful. I'm delighted with the Croatia win, but if the Armenia loss prevents us from qualifying then surely youre in agreement that it cost us big time and can't just be forgotten about. not really as Iran are Asia best team, and turkey are top of our group. These are no mugs. We wrote matches off for Ukraine, we played, england, belgium, holland and Poland? Which matches do you think we should we b winning from that group? We didnt lose them all either. no 4 points are unexpected from croatia so really you could say that armies loss has spurred us on to beat croatia - it clearly has. Win against armenia would we have been up for the croatia game? Its a qualification campaign and it doesn't rest on one result its the campaign. I think we should be beating Armenia. All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country. Iran I didn't think were all that. Asian football is nowhere near the level of Europe. We were playing the likes of Poland, Netherlands, Belgium... who did they play in the warm up? Iraq and Kyrgyzstan? Should have beaten them. Turkey are at our level so unfortunate to lose that one away but they aren't worldbeaters either. I'd like to think we were up for every match anyway. Can you be motivated by something that happened 3 months ago and you've played countless matches since? If we'd have beaten Turkey you could claim the Armenia result inspired them. Or even the reverse Armenia match you can claim was inspired by the Armenia result. But to think all the players collectively got on the same page and wanted to right the wrong of the Armenia result after we've played Turkey, Latvia, South Korea and Gibraltar is a massive stretch. The campaign does rest on one match when the margins are so tight. If we lose to Turkey and draw to Armenia and are 5 points off Croatia then fair enough, not one game messed us up. If we're under 3 it does. |
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Post by alarch on Oct 18, 2023 15:07:17 GMT
not really as Iran are Asia best team, and turkey are top of our group. These are no mugs. We wrote matches off for Ukraine, we played, england, belgium, holland and Poland? Which matches do you think we should we b winning from that group? We didnt lose them all either. no 4 points are unexpected from croatia so really you could say that armies loss has spurred us on to beat croatia - it clearly has. Win against armenia would we have been up for the croatia game? Its a qualification campaign and it doesn't rest on one result its the campaign. I think we should be beating Armenia. All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country. Iran I didn't think were all that. Asian football is nowhere near the level of Europe. We were playing the likes of Poland, Netherlands, Belgium... who did they play in the warm up? Iraq and Kyrgyzstan? Should have beaten them. Turkey are at our level so unfortunate to lose that one away but they aren't worldbeaters either. I'd like to think we were up for every match anyway. Can you be motivated by something that happened 3 months ago and you've played countless matches since? If we'd have beaten Turkey you could claim the Armenia result inspired them. Or even the reverse Armenia match you can claim was inspired by the Armenia result. But to think all the players collectively got on the same page and wanted to right the wrong of the Armenia result after we've played Turkey, Latvia, South Korea and Gibraltar is a massive stretch. The campaign does rest on one match when the margins are so tight. If we lose to Turkey and draw to Armenia and are 5 points off Croatia then fair enough, not one game messed us up. If we're under 3 it does. "All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country." That's a bit of a nonsense. Armenia were seeded third in our group, ahead of Turkey, so even though they've struggled of late they must have been decent in the not too distant past. And we saw that with our own eyes. In attack they were more than decent. Armenia will not be easy to beat on their patch, but if we can field the same side as against Croatia, and play at the same level, we will win. But let's not rubbish Armenia to suit an exaggerated narrative. |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 18, 2023 21:04:59 GMT
I think we should be beating Armenia. All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country. Iran I didn't think were all that. Asian football is nowhere near the level of Europe. We were playing the likes of Poland, Netherlands, Belgium... who did they play in the warm up? Iraq and Kyrgyzstan? Should have beaten them. Turkey are at our level so unfortunate to lose that one away but they aren't worldbeaters either. I'd like to think we were up for every match anyway. Can you be motivated by something that happened 3 months ago and you've played countless matches since? If we'd have beaten Turkey you could claim the Armenia result inspired them. Or even the reverse Armenia match you can claim was inspired by the Armenia result. But to think all the players collectively got on the same page and wanted to right the wrong of the Armenia result after we've played Turkey, Latvia, South Korea and Gibraltar is a massive stretch. The campaign does rest on one match when the margins are so tight. If we lose to Turkey and draw to Armenia and are 5 points off Croatia then fair enough, not one game messed us up. If we're under 3 it does. "All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country." That's a bit of a nonsense. Armenia were seeded third in our group, ahead of Turkey, so even though they've struggled of late they must have been decent in the not too distant past. And we saw that with our own eyes. In attack they were more than decent. Armenia will not be easy to beat on their patch, but if we can field the same side as against Croatia, and play at the same level, we will win. But let's not rubbish Armenia to suit an exaggerated narrative. A large number of their squad play in the Armenian League. If TNS drew an Armenian team in the final qualifying match to qualify for Europe would you fancy their chances? I'd consider it a dream draw. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 18, 2023 21:56:16 GMT
"All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country." That's a bit of a nonsense. Armenia were seeded third in our group, ahead of Turkey, so even though they've struggled of late they must have been decent in the not too distant past. And we saw that with our own eyes. In attack they were more than decent. Armenia will not be easy to beat on their patch, but if we can field the same side as against Croatia, and play at the same level, we will win. But let's not rubbish Armenia to suit an exaggerated narrative. A large number of their squad play in the Armenian League. If TNS drew an Armenian team in the final qualifying match to qualify for Europe would you fancy their chances? I'd consider it a dream draw. Have you followed the results of the Welsh Premier teams in Europe lately? |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 18, 2023 21:57:44 GMT
I think we should be beating Armenia. All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country. Iran I didn't think were all that. Asian football is nowhere near the level of Europe. We were playing the likes of Poland, Netherlands, Belgium... who did they play in the warm up? Iraq and Kyrgyzstan? Should have beaten them. Turkey are at our level so unfortunate to lose that one away but they aren't worldbeaters either. I'd like to think we were up for every match anyway. Can you be motivated by something that happened 3 months ago and you've played countless matches since? If we'd have beaten Turkey you could claim the Armenia result inspired them. Or even the reverse Armenia match you can claim was inspired by the Armenia result. But to think all the players collectively got on the same page and wanted to right the wrong of the Armenia result after we've played Turkey, Latvia, South Korea and Gibraltar is a massive stretch. The campaign does rest on one match when the margins are so tight. If we lose to Turkey and draw to Armenia and are 5 points off Croatia then fair enough, not one game messed us up. If we're under 3 it does. "All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country." That's a bit of a nonsense. Armenia were seeded third in our group, ahead of Turkey, so even though they've struggled of late they must have been decent in the not too distant past. And we saw that with our own eyes. In attack they were more than decent. Armenia will not be easy to beat on their patch, but if we can field the same side as against Croatia, and play at the same level, we will win. But let's not rubbish Armenia to suit an exaggerated narrative. The unlucky part for us is that if we had drawn any of the other fourth seeds other than Turkey, we’d probably have got away with that Armenia defeat. |
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Post by quetzal on Oct 18, 2023 22:44:47 GMT
"All this talk of technically gifted, its TNS with a few who play a high level outside the country." That's a bit of a nonsense. Armenia were seeded third in our group, ahead of Turkey, so even though they've struggled of late they must have been decent in the not too distant past. And we saw that with our own eyes. In attack they were more than decent. Armenia will not be easy to beat on their patch, but if we can field the same side as against Croatia, and play at the same level, we will win. But let's not rubbish Armenia to suit an exaggerated narrative. The unlucky part for us is that if we had drawn any of the other fourth seeds other than Turkey, we’d probably have got away with that Armenia defeat. If my aunty had a cock, she’d be my ……………… Scotland supposedly had a tough group but they nailed it! |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 19, 2023 5:04:24 GMT
The unlucky part for us is that if we had drawn any of the other fourth seeds other than Turkey, we’d probably have got away with that Armenia defeat. If my aunty had a cock, she’d be my ……………… Scotland supposedly had a tough group but they nailed it! Strange reaction to me mentioning that we had a particularly strong 4th seed in the draw? |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 19, 2023 8:25:16 GMT
If my aunty had a cock, she’d be my ……………… Scotland supposedly had a tough group but they nailed it! Strange reaction to me mentioning that we had a particularly strong 4th seed in the draw? Yeah they were probably the one team to avoid in the fourth pot, however we also got Croatia when we could’ve got a Spain or Portugal. |
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5pike
the carls
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Post by 5pike on Oct 19, 2023 8:41:50 GMT
think a lot of people are getting blinded by the win on sunday. Don't get me wrong its a quality result in a must win game, but croatia were off the back of a tough game against Turkey mid week plus their squad was depleted with injuries, when we were able to rest our starting line up with basically no travel either, so a lot fell in our favour.
With injuries to johnsson and ramsey, page's selection were partially forced.
the true test will be in yerevan next month, I cannot wait for that one.
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 19, 2023 8:48:25 GMT
5pike I get what you mean but we actually stood up to it and got the result. Armenia away we have Saturday rather than Thurs/Fri which goes in our favour. We have to go get a result.
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Post by saturn9 on Oct 19, 2023 9:09:27 GMT
Turks MAY be the easier game, qualified and dont tend to do well in fiendlies when there's nothing at stake 🤞 hopefully it continues in Nov.
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 19, 2023 10:14:33 GMT
A large number of their squad play in the Armenian League. If TNS drew an Armenian team in the final qualifying match to qualify for Europe would you fancy their chances? I'd consider it a dream draw. Have you followed the results of the Welsh Premier teams in Europe lately? Yeah I have. Have you followed the results of the Armenian teams in Europe? Like I said some of their team is at TNS level. |
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Post by superunknown on Oct 22, 2023 17:30:55 GMT
Turks MAY be the easier game, qualified and dont tend to do well in fiendlies when there's nothing at stake 🤞 hopefully it continues in Nov. They will be playing for a better pot placement in the final tournament. So while they may not be at full tilt against us it’s not a dead rubber for them either. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 23, 2023 8:52:48 GMT
Have you followed the results of the Welsh Premier teams in Europe lately? Yeah I have. Have you followed the results of the Armenian teams in Europe? Like I said some of their team is at TNS level. I think thats total rubbish, if you look at their squad they are valued from 175k (lowest) up to 15 million, with 7 players exceeding a million in market value. That would put them in line with a championship level. So im really not sure where you plucked this TNS thing from where they range from 10K-300K with the majority being 100k or lower. |
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Post by zserty on Oct 23, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
Yeah I have. Have you followed the results of the Armenian teams in Europe? Like I said some of their team is at TNS level. I think thats total rubbish, if you look at their squad they are valued from 175k (lowest) up to 15 million, with 7 players exceeding a million in market value. That would put them in line with a championship level. So im really not sure where you plucked this TNS thing from where they range from 10K-300K with the majority being 100k or lower. Have to agree with you, whilst Armenia really are a side we should be beating. They are a level above the Latvias, Estonia, Gibraltar etc |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Oct 23, 2023 16:46:55 GMT
I think thats total rubbish, if you look at their squad they are valued from 175k (lowest) up to 15 million, with 7 players exceeding a million in market value. That would put them in line with a championship level. So im really not sure where you plucked this TNS thing from where they range from 10K-300K with the majority being 100k or lower. Have to agree with you, whilst Armenia really are a side we should be beating. They are a level above the Latvias, Estonia, Gibraltar etc They probably are a level or two above Estonia and Latvia (although they were beaten fairly and squarely by the latter in Riga). But all three are several levels above the likes of Gibraltar. Latvia occasionally suffer a hammering away from home but they are much more likely cause a few upsets because they carry an attacking threat. |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 23, 2023 21:16:10 GMT
Yeah I have. Have you followed the results of the Armenian teams in Europe? Like I said some of their team is at TNS level. I think thats total rubbish, if you look at their squad they are valued from 175k (lowest) up to 15 million, with 7 players exceeding a million in market value. That would put them in line with a championship level. So im really not sure where you plucked this TNS thing from where they range from 10K-300K with the majority being 100k or lower. So if TNS drew an Armenian team in European qualifying youd think its curtains for them, they got no chance, be a cricket scoreline? I did say some of, I don't expect the striker who plays in Germany to be TNS level. But their keeper certainly is within TNS area of quality. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 23, 2023 21:58:41 GMT
I think thats total rubbish, if you look at their squad they are valued from 175k (lowest) up to 15 million, with 7 players exceeding a million in market value. That would put them in line with a championship level. So im really not sure where you plucked this TNS thing from where they range from 10K-300K with the majority being 100k or lower. So if TNS drew an Armenian team in European qualifying youd think its curtains for them, they got no chance, be a cricket scoreline? I did say some of, I don't expect the striker who plays in Germany to be TNS level. But their keeper certainly is within TNS area of quality. It’s not though is it, its the very best players from their leagues and more. Even their keeper the cheapest player on the pitch is at least worth 4 TNS players at 200k So no there is no comparison despite you trying to stitch this badly together. |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 28, 2023 7:28:34 GMT
So if TNS drew an Armenian team in European qualifying youd think its curtains for them, they got no chance, be a cricket scoreline? I did say some of, I don't expect the striker who plays in Germany to be TNS level. But their keeper certainly is within TNS area of quality. It’s not though is it, its the very best players from their leagues and more. Even their keeper the cheapest player on the pitch is at least worth 4 TNS players at 200k So no there is no comparison despite you trying to stitch this badly together. In yout opinion its badly. I think its ridiculous that people are happy we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players now that we've got a good result its all forgotten about, despite the fact we still haven't qualified. Only if we qualify will I see the campaign as a whole a success. If we don't though the whole campaign as a whole will be a failure, defeating Croatia will be part of that failure. In 20 years kids will look at that result and think what happened there, which was my exact thoughts leaving the stadium. I don't know where you get your valuations from, whether its some football hipster with a website whos labelled them as £200k. Unless they have been sold for that money valuation means nothing. Obi Anoruo was valued at £2-5,000,000 when at Wrexham. Also debatable whether TNS value would be at a disadvantage as theres so many English players released each year making them worth next to nothing. Not a true reflection of their talent. Where as Armenia surrounded by hostile countries to them can't easily replace the players. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 28, 2023 7:54:50 GMT
It’s not though is it, its the very best players from their leagues and more. Even their keeper the cheapest player on the pitch is at least worth 4 TNS players at 200k So no there is no comparison despite you trying to stitch this badly together. In yout opinion its badly. I think its ridiculous that people are happy we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players now that we've got a good result its all forgotten about, despite the fact we still haven't qualified. Only if we qualify will I see the campaign as a whole a success. If we don't though the whole campaign as a whole will be a failure, defeating Croatia will be part of that failure. In 20 years kids will look at that result and think what happened there, which was my exact thoughts leaving the stadium. I don't know where you get your valuations from, whether its some football hipster with a website whos labelled them as £200k. Unless they have been sold for that money valuation means nothing. Obi Anoruo was valued at £2-5,000,000 when at Wrexham. Also debatable whether TNS value would be at a disadvantage as theres so many English players released each year making them worth next to nothing. Not a true reflection of their talent. Where as Armenia surrounded by hostile countries to them can't easily replace the players. You are right, it would be ridiculous that people are happy we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players. The good news is, no one is happy that we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players. |
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Post by hooky on Oct 28, 2023 11:35:52 GMT
Whatever happened - the reality is if we had held on to James' goal and won at home against Armenia we would now just need a victory against Armenia away to qualify, and if we screwed up then a victory against Turkey. We should have avoided the situation we find ourselves in. Teams do screw up against lower ranked teams but they don't tend to concede 4 goals with a midfield / defence that consistently did an Oscar winning biblical performance of the parting of the Red Sea. Something was badly wrong and the problem was Page did not fix it during the game
The shape, mentality, defensive side of the game went awry in that game - players did not do their basis and the manager did not make effective changes to change things.
Croatia was brilliant but we must avoid going off the cliff like that again. As stated - maybe we keep Ramsey and Johnson on the bench versus Armenia for the sake of balance as we cannot afford two players going awol on their defensive duties. That would be very brave - is Page brave enough to do something like that? I will not forgive a mistake such as putting Ramsey in instead of Jordan James - Ramsey clearly does not have the discipline to play that position - he needs to focus on get together the best. most effective team and not the best team of individuals. One option is to rotates those players with the likes of Brooks and Wilson to keep them fresh in two positions for both games
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 31, 2023 5:57:37 GMT
In yout opinion its badly. I think its ridiculous that people are happy we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players now that we've got a good result its all forgotten about, despite the fact we still haven't qualified. Only if we qualify will I see the campaign as a whole a success. If we don't though the whole campaign as a whole will be a failure, defeating Croatia will be part of that failure. In 20 years kids will look at that result and think what happened there, which was my exact thoughts leaving the stadium. I don't know where you get your valuations from, whether its some football hipster with a website whos labelled them as £200k. Unless they have been sold for that money valuation means nothing. Obi Anoruo was valued at £2-5,000,000 when at Wrexham. Also debatable whether TNS value would be at a disadvantage as theres so many English players released each year making them worth next to nothing. Not a true reflection of their talent. Where as Armenia surrounded by hostile countries to them can't easily replace the players. You are right, it would be ridiculous that people are happy we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players. The good news is, no one is happy that we lost to an Armenian squad with domestic players. People are becoming accepting of it... |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 31, 2023 9:12:12 GMT
hooky I think scoring 10 mins in during the Armenia home game probably worked against us. We probably just felt then we wouldn’t get drawn back and felt like we just had to see out the last 80mins.
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