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Post by hooky on Jun 7, 2024 8:29:26 GMT
Premier League - being over promoted (or aggressively marketed) has paid off big times. Marketing as we all know helps create demand. I have little interest in Premier League football and do not believe it offers great value for money. It really feeds in to tribal instincts and the need for people to be connected to something - just look at Wrexham!
Boxing is the most over promoted / hyped sport in the world!
Women's football just needed some adequate investment and the success of England and their league has acted as the stimulus and surprise, surprise with more investment the standards have risen massively, even in just a few years
I encourage people to have a look at the pure quality of Fishlock's goals for Wales. She really is exceptional and she produces that after having had a tiny amount of the investment/support men have received even in the lower leagues and goodness knows how low it was when she was developing in her 20s. A lot of her world class actions are born of pure natural talent - power, athleticism and eye to ball co-ordination and work ethic. Comparing her unfavourably to any elite male players is a total joke - one should get perspective - yes women are smaller and not as powerful but they can be just as technically excellent with the same amount of support and investment!
The test is does Fishlock get you out of your seat with the moments she produced. Look at that world class strike on Tuesday or her goal in extra time of the play off versus Bosnia - I think anyone can see what the answer to that question is.
Oh and she was 37 in January!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2024 10:30:54 GMT
Premier League - being over promoted (or aggressively marketed) has paid off big times. Marketing as we all know helps create demand. I have little interest in Premier League football and do not believe it offers great value for money. It really feeds in to tribal instincts and the need for people to be connected to something - just look at Wrexham! Boxing is the most over promoted / hyped sport in the world! Women's football just needed some adequate investment and the success of England and their league has acted as the stimulus and surprise, surprise with more investment the standards have risen massively, even in just a few years I encourage people to have a look at the pure quality of Fishlock's goals for Wales. She really is exceptional and she produces that after having had a tiny amount of the investment/support men have received even in the lower leagues and goodness knows how low it was when she was developing in her 20s. A lot of her world class actions are born of pure natural talent - power, athleticism and eye to ball co-ordination and work ethic. Comparing her unfavourably to any elite male players is a total joke - one should get perspective - yes women are smaller and not as powerful but they can be just as technically excellent with the same amount of support and investment! The test is does Fishlock get you out of your seat with the moments she produced. Look at that world class strike on Tuesday or her goal in extra time of the play off versus Bosnia - I think anyone can see what the answer to that question is. Oh and she was 37 in January! Great post and agree with all your points mate |
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wft
savage
It's gone out for a throw in.
Posts: 111
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Post by wft on Jun 8, 2024 11:53:24 GMT
Bill Burr American comedian on women's soccer is very amusing viewers... look it up.
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 14, 2024 16:10:47 GMT
Haha, of course I'm a chauvinist from the Jurassic age biased against these poor women, what else could it possibly be? It is absolutely being overpromoted right now. Several times in the last few months I've seen at least 50% of the sport headlines on the BBC website dominated by women's football, even when there have been important thing's going on in the men's game. Sometimes it evens creeps into the main news headlines. And that's not even touching on all the air-time it takes up on Sky/TNT/Terrestrial tv etc. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that accurately reflects how popular the sport really is with the general public. It's absolutely being reported more than the popularity of the sport. That's just because it's being promoted You have to define what constitutes "over-promotion", because what you're saying is the promotion is harmful in some way and needs to be curtailed. How is it being "over-promoted"? What's the harm? I guess like a lot of other people, there are plenty of other things I'd rather be reading about than women's football. Sure there are more important things going on in the world, but we don't really do that with any other sport or pastime, and if we did I'm sure you'd question it. The only reason you don't is because of a trending agenda that people like you feel the need to champion, presumably to feel morally superior or something. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 14, 2024 16:53:21 GMT
Premier League - being over promoted (or aggressively marketed) has paid off big times. Marketing as we all know helps create demand. I have little interest in Premier League football and do not believe it offers great value for money. It really feeds in to tribal instincts and the need for people to be connected to something - just look at Wrexham! Boxing is the most over promoted / hyped sport in the world! Women's football just needed some adequate investment and the success of England and their league has acted as the stimulus and surprise, surprise with more investment the standards have risen massively, even in just a few years I encourage people to have a look at the pure quality of Fishlock's goals for Wales. She really is exceptional and she produces that after having had a tiny amount of the investment/support men have received even in the lower leagues and goodness knows how low it was when she was developing in her 20s. A lot of her world class actions are born of pure natural talent - power, athleticism and eye to ball co-ordination and work ethic. Comparing her unfavourably to any elite male players is a total joke - one should get perspective - yes women are smaller and not as powerful but they can be just as technically excellent with the same amount of support and investment! The test is does Fishlock get you out of your seat with the moments she produced. Look at that world class strike on Tuesday or her goal in extra time of the play off versus Bosnia - I think anyone can see what the answer to that question is. Oh and she was 37 in January! With the Premier League the marketing is only so "aggressive" because the demand exists for it. It's just market forces. You can say you don't like it or watch it but as football fans go you're in the minority. Boxing is not overpromoted in the slightest, it isn't on terrestrial telly at all these days and certainly doesn't get the traction in the news women's football does, despite there being far more passion for it amongst the public. The point about women being just as technically excellent as men as long as they have the investment, why have we never seen that in any sport yet then? They've had plenty of funding for all sorts of things, it's not just football. |
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Post by hooky on Jun 14, 2024 18:17:34 GMT
So stupid. Rowe is an excellent player. She leaves Rangers and ends up at Southampton in the Championship. Why on earth? Someone that good should be in their Premiership. Some of the midfielders in the lower half of their Premiership are clearly below Rowe's level. Very strange - look at how the likes of Bristol City struggled - a player as talented, experienced and as driven as Rowe would have made such a positive impact on that kind of club
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 15, 2024 23:01:07 GMT
It's absolutely being reported more than the popularity of the sport. That's just because it's being promoted You have to define what constitutes "over-promotion", because what you're saying is the promotion is harmful in some way and needs to be curtailed. How is it being "over-promoted"? What's the harm? I guess like a lot of other people, there are plenty of other things I'd rather be reading about than women's football. Sure there are more important things going on in the world, but we don't really do that with any other sport or pastime, and if we did I'm sure you'd question it. The only reason you don't is because of a trending agenda that people like you feel the need to champion, presumably to feel morally superior or something. Then don't read about it then? It's not hard It's a bit like me complaining that cricket gets a lot of coverage on the BBC. I don't watch it, I don't care about it, so it doesn't bother me that it gets loads of coverage, cos I just don't watch it Something about women's football clearly bothers you otherwise you wouldn't take time out of your day to complain about it, just like how I spend 0 time complaining about the cricket. If you don't like the sport, don't engage and don't comment, simple as! |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 16, 2024 10:42:32 GMT
I guess like a lot of other people, there are plenty of other things I'd rather be reading about than women's football. Sure there are more important things going on in the world, but we don't really do that with any other sport or pastime, and if we did I'm sure you'd question it. The only reason you don't is because of a trending agenda that people like you feel the need to champion, presumably to feel morally superior or something. Then don't read about it then? It's not hard It's a bit like me complaining that cricket gets a lot of coverage on the BBC. I don't watch it, I don't care about it, so it doesn't bother me that it gets loads of coverage, cos I just don't watch it Something about women's football clearly bothers you otherwise you wouldn't take time out of your day to complain about it, just like how I spend 0 time complaining about the cricket. If you don't like the sport, don't engage and don't comment, simple as! Well said, I was thinking along the same lines. It's not like we're in the 70s and women's football is taking up our time on one of 3 channels. Now there's billions of TV channels and the Internet. There's never been an easier time to ignore something that's of no interest. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 15:35:31 GMT
I guess like a lot of other people, there are plenty of other things I'd rather be reading about than women's football. Sure there are more important things going on in the world, but we don't really do that with any other sport or pastime, and if we did I'm sure you'd question it. The only reason you don't is because of a trending agenda that people like you feel the need to champion, presumably to feel morally superior or something. Then don't read about it then? It's not hard It's a bit like me complaining that cricket gets a lot of coverage on the BBC. I don't watch it, I don't care about it, so it doesn't bother me that it gets loads of coverage, cos I just don't watch it Something about women's football clearly bothers you otherwise you wouldn't take time out of your day to complain about it, just like how I spend 0 time complaining about the cricket. If you don't like the sport, don't engage and don't comment, simple as! You're missing the point. You can't avoid it these days, particularly if you have any interest in sport, I wish it was that easy lol. Cricket doesn't remotely work as a comparison. It isn't rammed down your throat 24/7, it doesn't dominate the sports personality awards year after year (among many other prestigious awards). the participants don't publicly demand equal pay with more popular sports, cricket players don't constantly appear as pundits and commentators on men's football broadcasts pretending to be experts on the game etc etc. I could go on but does that make it a bit clearer? You'd think a specific thread on a football forum would be the perfect place to vent, but you'd be wrong apparently. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 15:46:32 GMT
Then don't read about it then? It's not hard It's a bit like me complaining that cricket gets a lot of coverage on the BBC. I don't watch it, I don't care about it, so it doesn't bother me that it gets loads of coverage, cos I just don't watch it Something about women's football clearly bothers you otherwise you wouldn't take time out of your day to complain about it, just like how I spend 0 time complaining about the cricket. If you don't like the sport, don't engage and don't comment, simple as! Well said, I was thinking along the same lines. It's not like we're in the 70s and women's football is taking up our time on one of 3 channels. Now there's billions of TV channels and the Internet. There's never been an easier time to ignore something that's of no interest. Again, it's not as simple as that. You can't make your own broadcast, if you want to actually watch live sport then you have to put up with whatever the broadcasters decide to serve up. Maybe you don't enjoy the insights of Karen Carney or Helen Ward as much as some do, and that can mean having to mute the sound throughout an entire game to avoid it. It's all a little more invasive than what people like you try to make out. |
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Post by surge on Jun 16, 2024 16:18:09 GMT
I learnt more from Emma Hayes during that one tournament a few years back than I have ever done from Robbie Savage, Danny Murphy etc. You're suggesting the examples of "bad" pundits who are women are there because they're women but how on earth do you explain Danny Murphy or Chris Sutton?? And what about Alan Shearer who was bad but became good? You saying he should never have had that chance?
I think you should recognise that you're annoyed at a perceived over-correction rather than gender, but it's 2024 and seeing the levels of coverage and investment women's sport got previously, there was desperate need for a correction.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 16, 2024 16:21:14 GMT
Not all the female pundits are that great, but then the same can be said of most of the male ones too. On S4C I'd say Gwennan Harries is the best pundit.
Have female commentators and pundits been given opportunities they haven't earned? Perhaps with some, but they'll improve with time. I can't say it bothers me. The question is why does it bother you?
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 17:05:51 GMT
I learnt more from Emma Hayes during that one tournament a few years back than I have ever done from Robbie Savage, Danny Murphy etc. You're suggesting the examples of "bad" pundits who are women are there because they're women but how on earth do you explain Danny Murphy or Chris Sutton?? And what about Alan Shearer who was bad but became good? You saying he should never have had that chance? I think you should recognise that you're annoyed at a perceived over-correction rather than gender, but it's 2024 and seeing the levels of coverage and investment women's sport got previously, there was desperate need for a correction. I'm not saying they're bad "because" they're women, I'm saying they have no meaningful insight to offer because they have no experience in the men's game. That would be a perfectly logical thing to say in any other age, but not in 2024 it seems. I accept there is a subjective element to punditry and who you like or don't like, but with the male pundits we know who all of them are and they all generally add to the viewing experience. You just can't say the same about any of the female pundits. If you're "learning" from Emma Hayes you're learning about what works in the women's game, she has no idea how effective the same tactics would be in the men's game because she's never coached in it at any level, let alone at international tournaments. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 17:17:50 GMT
Not all the female pundits are that great, but then the same can be said of most of the male ones too. On S4C I'd say Gwennan Harries is the best pundit. Have female commentators and pundits been given opportunities they haven't earned? Perhaps with some, but they'll improve with time. I can't say it bothers me. The question is why does it bother you? I would say Gwennan is definitely the best female pundit I've seen, but then the bar is set so low so that's not really saying much. And of course I'm biased because she's Welsh and speaks the language very well. But better than Owain or Malc? No. I mean the problem is simply that they're taking the place of somebody better qualified for the job because of woke box-ticking. I'm listening to Eni Aluko prattling away right now on ITV, and we had Karen Carney yesterday embarrassing herself dropping clangers all over the shop. If we're being honest all of us watching that must wonder at least a little bit if they're really the best people available for these roles. |
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Post by iot on Jun 16, 2024 17:24:33 GMT
I learnt more from Emma Hayes during that one tournament a few years back than I have ever done from Robbie Savage, Danny Murphy etc. You're suggesting the examples of "bad" pundits who are women are there because they're women but how on earth do you explain Danny Murphy or Chris Sutton?? And what about Alan Shearer who was bad but became good? You saying he should never have had that chance? I think you should recognise that you're annoyed at a perceived over-correction rather than gender, but it's 2024 and seeing the levels of coverage and investment women's sport got previously, there was desperate need for a correction. I'm not saying they're bad "because" they're women, I'm saying they have no meaningful insight to offer because they have no experience in the men's game. That would be a perfectly logical thing to say in any other age, but not in 2024 it seems. I accept there is a subjective element to punditry and who you like or don't like, but with the male pundits we know who all of them are and they all generally add to the viewing experience. You just can't say the same about any of the female pundits. If you're "learning" from Emma Hayes you're learning about what works in the women's game, she has no idea how effective the same tactics would be in the men's game because she's never coached in it at any level, let alone at international tournaments. Were you this outraged about Dan Walker presenting for years? What about some of the continental trends we’ve seen recently with sports journalist with no professional playing career getting more time as pundits, and doing so in a really entertaining and insightful way? Were you outraged that Mourinho got into coaching and management despite failing to make it as a professional? |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 17:40:11 GMT
I'm not saying they're bad "because" they're women, I'm saying they have no meaningful insight to offer because they have no experience in the men's game. That would be a perfectly logical thing to say in any other age, but not in 2024 it seems. I accept there is a subjective element to punditry and who you like or don't like, but with the male pundits we know who all of them are and they all generally add to the viewing experience. You just can't say the same about any of the female pundits. If you're "learning" from Emma Hayes you're learning about what works in the women's game, she has no idea how effective the same tactics would be in the men's game because she's never coached in it at any level, let alone at international tournaments. Were you this outraged about Dan Walker presenting for years? What about some of the continental trends we’ve seen recently with sports journalist with no professional playing career getting more time as pundits, and doing so in a really entertaining and insightful way? Were you outraged that Mourinho got into coaching and management despite failing to make it as a professional? When did I mention presenters? I've been talking specifically about punditry and commentary, I have no problem with females in presenting or reporting roles. And which journalists have you seen working as pundits on big prime-time games on telly? I don't recall seeing any. And again, I wasn't really talking about coaches but if a female coach got into the men's game and had a successful career in it then she'd actually have some insight to offer as a pundit, but that's never happened has it. If you want to pick apart what I say it might be an idea to go and check what I've actually written on the subject. |
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Post by welwyn on Jun 16, 2024 18:15:37 GMT
Thought Jayne was excellent on the WC coverage as well.
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 18:21:56 GMT
Thought Jayne was excellent on the WC coverage as well. You mean Jayne Ludlow?  |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 16, 2024 18:23:34 GMT
Not all the female pundits are that great, but then the same can be said of most of the male ones too. On S4C I'd say Gwennan Harries is the best pundit. Have female commentators and pundits been given opportunities they haven't earned? Perhaps with some, but they'll improve with time. I can't say it bothers me. The question is why does it bother you? I would say Gwennan is definitely the best female pundit I've seen, but then the bar is set so low so that's not really saying much. And of course I'm biased because she's Welsh and speaks the language very well. But better than Owain or Malc? No. I mean the problem is simply that they're taking the place of somebody better qualified for the job because of woke box-ticking. I'm listening to Eni Aluko prattling away right now on ITV, and we had Karen Carney yesterday embarrassing herself dropping clangers all over the shop. If we're being honest all of us watching that must wonder at least a little bit if they're really the best people available for these roles. OTJ is articulate but consistently disappoints with the blandness of his comments. I rarely feel he adds anything that isn't obvious. Allen is a motormouth who occasionally offers some insight but rarely engages brain before mouth. If you can't see that Gwennan offers more insight then I have to put that down to prejudice. There's also no reason at all why a woman or someone who's never played the game can't offer insight into the men's game. It would be interesting to hear the perspective of someone who had a background in data analytics from time to time just to offer a new perspective. A lot of pundits are so limited in their insight. Keown today is a perfect example. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 16, 2024 20:11:56 GMT
I would say Gwennan is definitely the best female pundit I've seen, but then the bar is set so low so that's not really saying much. And of course I'm biased because she's Welsh and speaks the language very well. But better than Owain or Malc? No. I mean the problem is simply that they're taking the place of somebody better qualified for the job because of woke box-ticking. I'm listening to Eni Aluko prattling away right now on ITV, and we had Karen Carney yesterday embarrassing herself dropping clangers all over the shop. If we're being honest all of us watching that must wonder at least a little bit if they're really the best people available for these roles. OTJ is articulate but consistently disappoints with the blandness of his comments. I rarely feel he adds anything that isn't obvious. Allen is a motormouth who occasionally offers some insight but rarely engages brain before mouth. If you can't see that Gwennan offers more insight then I have to put that down to prejudice. There's also no reason at all why a woman or someone who's never played the game can't offer insight into the men's game. It would be interesting to hear the perspective of someone who had a background in data analytics from time to time just to offer a new perspective. A lot of pundits are so limited in their insight. Keown today is a perfect example. Jesus it's all prejudice and misogyny with you lot isn't it. You've got to be trolling with that summation. OTJ it the one providing most of the insight for S4C, he's incisive and always on point with his analysis of what's happening. Yes Malc is quite removed from the game now but he still picks up on things and can be entertaining. I find Gwennan usually to be the one just stating the obvious, albeit more articulately than her English language counterparts. With the bolded bit you're basically undermining the whole idea of punditry as a profession, implying basically anyone can do it. If that's the case why don't they just get fans out of the crowd to do it then? They'd save a fortune on booking fees for former players. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 16, 2024 21:03:52 GMT
How do you rate Alan Shearer? The top BBC pundit, yet almost invariably just states the obvious but with great certainty, as if that matters. Ex-players are generally mediocre pundits compared to managers and coaches who offer a lot more insight into tactics and formations. There's definitely an element of the Emperor's clothes about the elevated position of ex-players as pundits.
The best Welsh pundit in my opinion is Cameron Toshack, but tellingly has never made it beyond Swanstv. He's thoughtful, insightful and tells you stuff that you wouldn't necessarily pick up on. To pick on the standard of female punditry is to miss the point. The standard of punditry is really low, because analytical skills aren't prized by the powers that be.
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Post by iot on Jun 16, 2024 22:20:05 GMT
Were you this outraged about Dan Walker presenting for years? What about some of the continental trends we’ve seen recently with sports journalist with no professional playing career getting more time as pundits, and doing so in a really entertaining and insightful way? Were you outraged that Mourinho got into coaching and management despite failing to make it as a professional? When did I mention presenters? I've been talking specifically about punditry and commentary, I have no problem with females in presenting or reporting roles. And which journalists have you seen working as pundits on big prime-time games on telly? I don't recall seeing any. And again, I wasn't really talking about coaches but if a female coach got into the men's game and had a successful career in it then she'd actually have some insight to offer as a pundit, but that's never happened has it. If you want to pick apart what I say it might be an idea to go and check what I've actually written on the subject. Well the lines between presenting and punditry become very blurred in football programmes, I'm sure you're not one of these people who gets all worked up about Alex Scott presenting Football Focus in that case. James Horncastle and Guillem Balagué are the main examples of journalists crossing more and more into punditry, and are excellent at it. Horncastle went viral a couple of times recently with the excellent insights provided into Atalanta during their run to winning the Europa League (see here for example: x.com/HLTCO/status/1793541702101409796). They're 10 times better than your Shearers, Ferdinands, and the rest of them. No you weren't talking about coaches, but my point was Mourinho became one of the best managers in the world at one point with no professional football career behind him. Look at Steve Cooper too - these are not uncommon cases - which shows that you don't need to have been a professional footballer to have a great understanding of the game. All this nonsense about having it 'rammed down our throats' really irks, not least because it's how support for a lot of minorities in all sorts of contexts are portrayed - I mean, us Welsh speakers get it all the time (a fi'n siwr byse gyda ti barn gwahanol iawn yn yr achos hynny). |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 17, 2024 8:29:02 GMT
Then don't read about it then? It's not hard It's a bit like me complaining that cricket gets a lot of coverage on the BBC. I don't watch it, I don't care about it, so it doesn't bother me that it gets loads of coverage, cos I just don't watch it Something about women's football clearly bothers you otherwise you wouldn't take time out of your day to complain about it, just like how I spend 0 time complaining about the cricket. If you don't like the sport, don't engage and don't comment, simple as! You're missing the point. You can't avoid it these days, particularly if you have any interest in sport, I wish it was that easy lol. Cricket doesn't remotely work as a comparison. It isn't rammed down your throat 24/7, it doesn't dominate the sports personality awards year after year (among many other prestigious awards). the participants don't publicly demand equal pay with more popular sports, cricket players don't constantly appear as pundits and commentators on men's football broadcasts pretending to be experts on the game etc etc. I could go on but does that make it a bit clearer? You'd think a specific thread on a football forum would be the perfect place to vent, but you'd be wrong apparently. You literally CAN avoid it because I know plenty of people who don't watch it or read about it and just get on with their days without crying about "woke globalist transgender feminist buzzwords" Sounds to me like the only inconveniences you experience from this is that: 1) An award show you CHOOSE to watch was won by female footballer (only the 2nd time it's ever happened) 2) You have to listen to women DARING to ask to be paid the same as men for representing their country, which is an equal honour 3) Sometimes the terrible punditry you watch during men's games comes from people with a different set of genitals If that's really the main ways you're inconvenienced by all of this then maybe you're just overly sensitive Here's why you come across as biased against women...If a female pundit says something stupid you think it's because she's a woman. If a male pundit says something stupid you think it's because he's not a very good pundit. I hope you can see that and use this as a point of reflection to consider your views on this |
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Post by hooky on Jun 17, 2024 13:08:58 GMT
I ignored the comments criticising the coverage of women's football but why is it dragging on?
For goodness sake get a life! I am troubled by the rise of Reform UK (these idiots and their Brexit nonsense has led to many of our current problems - inflation higher than other countries (due to increased costs of trade and interference with the supply of labour for jobs Brits do not want to do, where is the extra money for the NHS and the trade deal in days with the US we were promised (instead we have higher trade barriers with our closes European neighbours) and hopefully the realisation that London is not going to match the funding Wales received from the EU due to it being designated a poor region) and other populist parties, but if I don't like it or if it offends me then I do not have to read the media articles! By the way I recognise there are reasons behind their rise and the ruling classes should listen to and react to genuine concerns about demands which stretch resources on education, health and housing - their poor care of the country sowed the seeds of what has happened / is happening
Anyway back to football!
The growth of Wales women football team is a joy to me and while frustrating at times, it is great to see their passion and skills on display and the steady progress they are making. The saddest thing is that women's football hardly gets discussed by anyone on this message board and yet the hatters have solicited by contrast a significant reaction. Best thing is to ignore this nonsense and they will get bored of talking to themselves
No women's football on tv and I would have missed the beauty of Fishlocks two brilliant strikes against the Ukraine and Bosnia as well as her unlucky strike against the post away to France which would have got us a draw (I knew little of her fantastic skill until I started watching Wales women matches on tv), the draw against Germany, the fight and passion for the shirt they always show. I am as invested in them as the men now and I'd encourage all open minded people who love Wales and football / sport to get behind them. They bloody deserve it!
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 17, 2024 15:24:52 GMT
When did I mention presenters? I've been talking specifically about punditry and commentary, I have no problem with females in presenting or reporting roles. And which journalists have you seen working as pundits on big prime-time games on telly? I don't recall seeing any. And again, I wasn't really talking about coaches but if a female coach got into the men's game and had a successful career in it then she'd actually have some insight to offer as a pundit, but that's never happened has it. If you want to pick apart what I say it might be an idea to go and check what I've actually written on the subject. , I'm sure you're not one of these people who gets all worked up about Alex Scott presenting Football Focus in that case. James Horncastle and Guillem Balagué are the main examples of journalists crossing more and more into punditry, and are excellent at it. Horncastle went viral a couple of times recently with the excellent insights provided into Atalanta during their run to winning the Europa League (see here for example: x.com/HLTCO/status/1793541702101409796). They're 10 times better than your Shearers, Ferdinands, and the rest of them. No you weren't talking about coaches, but my point was Mourinho became one of the best managers in the world at one point with no professional football career behind him. Look at Steve Cooper too - these are not uncommon cases - which shows that you don't need to have been a professional footballer to have a great understanding of the game. All this nonsense about having it 'rammed down our throats' really irks, not least because it's how support for a lot of minorities in all sorts of contexts are portrayed - I mean, us Welsh speakers get it all the time (a fi'n siwr byse gyda ti barn gwahanol iawn yn yr achos hynny). They are not blurred whatsoever. Are you even watching the same thing? I'm talking about big live games on the telly, not weekly round-up programmes on pay tv. Presenters are there to look into the camera, smile a lot, introduce people etc; Pundits are billed as experts meant to analyse what's happening and inform the viewers. Two completely different roles. Again you seem persistent with this idea that anyone can do punditry and experience in the game doesn't matter. You need to tell that to the mainstream broadcasters then because they seem to think only former players and coaches can do it. It's funny you mentioned being outraged. I'm just making logical points that most people watching football would probably agree with. It's you and your wokey-cokey mates frothing at the mouth on here ranting about things I haven't even said 😂 |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 17, 2024 15:56:40 GMT
You're missing the point. You can't avoid it these days, particularly if you have any interest in sport, I wish it was that easy lol. Cricket doesn't remotely work as a comparison. It isn't rammed down your throat 24/7, it doesn't dominate the sports personality awards year after year (among many other prestigious awards). the participants don't publicly demand equal pay with more popular sports, cricket players don't constantly appear as pundits and commentators on men's football broadcasts pretending to be experts on the game etc etc. I could go on but does that make it a bit clearer? You'd think a specific thread on a football forum would be the perfect place to vent, but you'd be wrong apparently. You literally CAN avoid it because I know plenty of people who don't watch it or read about it and just get on with their days without crying about "woke globalist transgender feminist buzzwords" Sounds to me like the only inconveniences you experience from this is that: 1) An award show you CHOOSE to watch was won by female footballer (only the 2nd time it's ever happened) 2) You have to listen to women DARING to ask to be paid the same as men for representing their country, which is an equal honour 3) Sometimes the terrible punditry you watch during men's games comes from people with a different set of genitals If that's really the main ways you're inconvenienced by all of this then maybe you're just overly sensitive Here's why you come across as biased against women...If a female pundit says something stupid you think it's because she's a woman. If a male pundit says something stupid you think it's because he's not a very good pundit. I hope you can see that and use this as a point of reflection to consider your views on this Again you want to display to everyone how upset and angry you are at comments that you deem unacceptable, but it's clear you're not actually reading the thread properly. I directly addressed the last point several posts ago. It's not "because they're women", it's because they have no insight to offer by virtue of having no experience in the men's game. This current obsession with inclusivity/diversity box-ticking is more important than maintaining standards apparently and that's what I'm "biased" about. Logical, easy to understand point but It'll fly right over your head again I'm sure. May as well answer your other points while we're at it: 1) You don't need to watch the SPOTY awards to know what's going on with it, I didn't even watch it myself. It's all over the news and social media for the following week. Do you live under a rock? 2) Demanding equal outputs when the inputs are unequal smacks of entitlement to me and probably most people but of course you don't see it that way. 3) They do vary in quality but I'll listen to the 3 worst male pundits over the 3 "best" female pundits any day of the week thank you. |
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Post by iot on Jun 17, 2024 15:59:56 GMT
Well the lines between presenting and punditry become very blurred in football programmes, I'm sure you're not one of these people who gets all worked up about Alex Scott presenting Football Focus in that case. James Horncastle and Guillem Balagué are the main examples of journalists crossing more and more into punditry, and are excellent at it. Horncastle went viral a couple of times recently with the excellent insights provided into Atalanta during their run to winning the Europa League (see here for example: x.com/HLTCO/status/1793541702101409796). They're 10 times better than your Shearers, Ferdinands, and the rest of them. No you weren't talking about coaches, but my point was Mourinho became one of the best managers in the world at one point with no professional football career behind him. Look at Steve Cooper too - these are not uncommon cases - which shows that you don't need to have been a professional footballer to have a great understanding of the game. All this nonsense about having it 'rammed down our throats' really irks, not least because it's how support for a lot of minorities in all sorts of contexts are portrayed - I mean, us Welsh speakers get it all the time (a fi'n siwr byse gyda ti barn gwahanol iawn yn yr achos hynny). They are not blurred whatsoever. Are you even watching the same thing? I'm talking about big live games on the telly, not weekly round-up programmes on pay tv. Presenters are there to look into the camera, smile a lot, introduce people etc; Pundits are billed as experts meant to analyse what's happening and inform the viewers. Two completely different roles. Again you seem persistent with this idea that anyone can do punditry and experience in the game doesn't matter. You need to tell that to the mainstream broadcasters then because they seem to think only former players and coaches can do it. It's funny you mentioned being outraged. I'm just making logical points that most people watching football would probably agree with. It's you and your wokey-cokey mates frothing at the mouth on here ranting about things I haven't even said 😂 Oh dear, right I'm going to take hooky's advice and no longer respond to this nonsense. You're right, I'm far too 'wokey-cokey' (hopefully I spelled that right) to respond to your straight-talking, common-sense, non-PC thoughts. You keep doing you |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 17, 2024 16:17:34 GMT
I ignored the comments criticising the coverage of women's football but why is it dragging on? For goodness sake get a life! I am troubled by the rise of Reform UK (these idiots and their Brexit nonsense has led to many of our current problems - inflation higher than other countries (due to increased costs of trade and interference with the supply of labour for jobs Brits do not want to do, where is the extra money for the NHS and the trade deal in days with the US we were promised (instead we have higher trade barriers with our closes European neighbours) and hopefully the realisation that London is not going to match the funding Wales received from the EU due to it being designated a poor region) and other populist parties, but if I don't like it or if it offends me then I do not have to read the media articles! By the way I recognise there are reasons behind their rise and the ruling classes should listen to and react to genuine concerns about demands which stretch resources on education, health and housing - their poor care of the country sowed the seeds of what has happened / is happening Anyway back to football! The growth of Wales women football team is a joy to me and while frustrating at times, it is great to see their passion and skills on display and the steady progress they are making. The saddest thing is that women's football hardly gets discussed by anyone on this message board and yet the hatters have solicited by contrast a significant reaction. Best thing is to ignore this nonsense and they will get bored of talking to themselves No women's football on tv and I would have missed the beauty of Fishlocks two brilliant strikes against the Ukraine and Bosnia as well as her unlucky strike against the post away to France which would have got us a draw (I knew little of her fantastic skill until I started watching Wales women matches on tv), the draw against Germany, the fight and passion for the shirt they always show. I am as invested in them as the men now and I'd encourage all open minded people who love Wales and football / sport to get behind them. They bloody deserve it! Let's ignore this!! Why is this dragging on?? Followed by a huge ranting diatribe addressing imaginary points 😂 Doesn't the bolded bit tell you something Hooky? I'm not trying to hate on it, rather just pointing out the reality that women's football is still very much a minority sport that generates little interest or passion amongst the public. You don't have to be upset or angry about it, it's just a fact. The problem all stems form the media deciding they're going to promote the sport as hard as they can because it fits perfectly with all the modern agendas they want to push. Unfortunately people can get swept along with that and get the wrong idea of it's true popularity. |
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Post by hooky on Jun 17, 2024 17:15:15 GMT
I ignored the comments criticising the coverage of women's football but why is it dragging on? For goodness sake get a life! I am troubled by the rise of Reform UK (these idiots and their Brexit nonsense has led to many of our current problems - inflation higher than other countries (due to increased costs of trade and interference with the supply of labour for jobs Brits do not want to do, where is the extra money for the NHS and the trade deal in days with the US we were promised (instead we have higher trade barriers with our closes European neighbours) and hopefully the realisation that London is not going to match the funding Wales received from the EU due to it being designated a poor region) and other populist parties, but if I don't like it or if it offends me then I do not have to read the media articles! By the way I recognise there are reasons behind their rise and the ruling classes should listen to and react to genuine concerns about demands which stretch resources on education, health and housing - their poor care of the country sowed the seeds of what has happened / is happening Anyway back to football! The growth of Wales women football team is a joy to me and while frustrating at times, it is great to see their passion and skills on display and the steady progress they are making. The saddest thing is that women's football hardly gets discussed by anyone on this message board and yet the hatters have solicited by contrast a significant reaction. Best thing is to ignore this nonsense and they will get bored of talking to themselves No women's football on tv and I would have missed the beauty of Fishlocks two brilliant strikes against the Ukraine and Bosnia as well as her unlucky strike against the post away to France which would have got us a draw (I knew little of her fantastic skill until I started watching Wales women matches on tv), the draw against Germany, the fight and passion for the shirt they always show. I am as invested in them as the men now and I'd encourage all open minded people who love Wales and football / sport to get behind them. They bloody deserve it! Let's ignore this!! Why is this dragging on?? Followed by a huge ranting diatribe addressing imaginary points 😂 Doesn't the bolded bit tell you something Hooky? I'm not trying to hate on it, rather just pointing out the reality that women's football is still very much a minority sport that generates little interest or passion amongst the public. You don't have to be upset or angry about it, it's just a fact. The problem all stems form the media deciding they're going to promote the sport as hard as they can because it fits perfectly with all the modern agendas they want to push. Unfortunately people can get swept along with that and get the wrong idea of it's true popularity. Look I will try to restrain myself from making further comment after just making a personal point on this matter. 5 years ago I would make no real effort to watch the Wales women's football team as 1. there was next to no coverage and I am not even sure you'd see goals from games on a consistent basis 2. the standard was relatively poor I started watching the team a little towards the end of the WC campaign when England were in their group, at a time when I saw they were doing well. It was entertaining in parts and good to drive England so close. I also watched bits of the following Euros qualification but could see the quality was lacking in parts and so watched things in an ad hoc manner Then the last Euro championship started to get me hooked. The games were available on iplayer / tv and the standard was much improved. Wales as a team had (and still have) their own weaknesses but they gave everything and presented real quality, top class moments - mainly from Jess. For me that got me hooked in as a supporter and it has got more and more entertaining from my perspective as a spectacle. This growth in quality and interest from my seat / viewpoint is due to women's football being better marketed, more easily accessible, as it is now consistently on tv and/or the iplayer, and as a consequence of having more investment which has helped players and teams to get better and better (unsurprising as players are able to focus more on football, train more regularly, have access to better resources and coaching, etc). Its unsurprising that more investment improves the product and more marketing, by making the product more accessible on TV or iplayer, has helped to grow interest! A similar thing has happened for me in respect to women's rugby This is my perspective and my truth. I will leave it there |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 17, 2024 19:59:41 GMT
You literally CAN avoid it because I know plenty of people who don't watch it or read about it and just get on with their days without crying about "woke globalist transgender feminist buzzwords" Sounds to me like the only inconveniences you experience from this is that: 1) An award show you CHOOSE to watch was won by female footballer (only the 2nd time it's ever happened) 2) You have to listen to women DARING to ask to be paid the same as men for representing their country, which is an equal honour 3) Sometimes the terrible punditry you watch during men's games comes from people with a different set of genitals If that's really the main ways you're inconvenienced by all of this then maybe you're just overly sensitive Here's why you come across as biased against women...If a female pundit says something stupid you think it's because she's a woman. If a male pundit says something stupid you think it's because he's not a very good pundit. I hope you can see that and use this as a point of reflection to consider your views on this Again you want to display to everyone how upset and angry you are at comments that you deem unacceptable, but it's clear you're not actually reading the thread properly. I'll listen to the 3 worst male pundits over the 3 "best" female pundits any day of the week thank you. And in this sentence alone you literally proved my point. Thank you |
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