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Post by youngdragon on Feb 27, 2011 16:21:14 GMT
What's wrong with David Vaughan?
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Post by flynnfan on Feb 27, 2011 19:04:05 GMT
Short answer: He's shit.
Long answer: He's a technically gifted, albeit extremely lightweight central midfielder who, when he comes up against midfielders as technically gifted (which is most at international level) is generally outpowered and outpaced and thus becomes completely ineffective. He can do a job for us against the likes of Leichtenstein and Azerbaijain but against teams ranked and seeded higher than us if Vaughan is in the team we usually lose. (I'd be be interested to know the stats on this- how many times has Vaughan been on the winning side against teams ranked higher than Wales?) He needs someone as assertive and powerful as Charlie Adam alongside him to be effective and we don't have that at the moment - witness Wolves midfield domination of Adam-less Blackpool at the weekend for further evidence. I'm sorry, but as long as Wales managers go on picking players as limited as Vaughan we're not going to improve much.
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Post by alrhyl on Feb 27, 2011 20:48:15 GMT
2 goals today - 8 this season so far. Seeing though he's a midfielder he's doing great - compare his goals against Earnshaw - 6 goals & Church - 4 goals. Two very good goals today - first a very good header. The second being compared to Justin Fashanu's goal of the season in the early 80's. Got to be a certainty for the Wales squad - an a real option to consider for the team. Use to hate it when Toshack would play him when he was palying 2nd Division football. But maybe Tosh knew more than me. Surely not. Justin Fashanu?? Fantastic tits! ;D |
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Post by saints19 on Feb 27, 2011 22:41:02 GMT
Crofts was crap when he first came on the international scene, but played OK against the Swiss and has had a good season. Those saying he's not good enough have to look at our squad - decent enough, but not world beating and with some glaring weaknesses (although definitely better than pot 6!) Simple fact: Crofts is about on par with our other midfielders on current form, possibly with the exceptions of Ramsey and Vaughan. Edwards, Ledley, Stock, Allen, King etc., are all good lower-Premiership/upper Championship-level players, which is where you'd have to say Crofts is too.
Crofts suffers a bit from a bad rep from his early Wales performances, which were shocking.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 22:53:06 GMT
Fair play Crofts has come on leaps & bounds this season at Norwich, on current form certainly worth a place in the squad, but not in the starting line-up IMO.
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Post by bellamyforever on Mar 3, 2011 12:07:19 GMT
Flynnfann , how dare you comment of such negativity towards David Vaughan , who the fuck are you ?
You should support whoever is in the team.
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Post by llannerch on Mar 3, 2011 13:19:44 GMT
Don't forget Crofts is playing in the same position has his Manager at Norwich did, who was underrated, extemely good at the role and won the Champions League. One thing Crofts does better than Lambert is scoring goals
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Mar 3, 2011 13:21:01 GMT
All that storm does is write negative shit!!
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Post by bellamyforever on Mar 3, 2011 13:40:29 GMT
storm is a negative bugger
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Post by llannerch on Mar 3, 2011 13:45:23 GMT
I'll stick up for you storm
whsiper****What do you want me to say?****whisper
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 3, 2011 22:25:07 GMT
er....whilst it might be true that storm probably doesnt whistle 'always look on the bright side of life' whilst going about his daily life, he hasnt actually commented on this thread.
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Post by flynnfan on May 2, 2011 22:44:49 GMT
As long time apostles will know, I'm not his biggest fan, but fair play to him. Released on a free by Gillingham and in the conference on loan failing to help Wrexham win any games...next thing he's a prem player. Quite a turnaround. How do you think he'll do next season then?
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Post by saints19 on May 2, 2011 23:18:44 GMT
Seems to have picked his game up massively since he went to Norwich. I'd still say he's a squad player, but see how he gets on in the Prem. If he plays well at that level then like Vaughan you'd have to admit he will have forced his way into contention.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2011 23:23:44 GMT
You have to tell it like it is: he has been an ever present for them.
Lambert doesnt seem like a mug so Crofts must have really pulled his weight this season so he obviously has something about him....but I firmly believe that just because you are a prem player does not necessarily make you an international.
Has Crofts been any good for us whilst hes been in the Championship with Norwich? Not really (could say that about everyone bar Bale I guess). I think to find our best XI we have to look beyond the obvious of what club a player plays for as i think there are some championship players that are more valuable to us than prem players. Its about who can come in and adapt to the Wales team/international football the best, being a prem player is not a guarantee of that.
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Post by flynnfan on May 3, 2011 0:02:46 GMT
Agree totally with all that RD. I'd much rather see Joe Allen in that role for Wales than Crofts, even if the Swans don't go up.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2011 1:08:47 GMT
Agree totally with all that RD. I'd much rather see Joe Allen in that role for Wales than Crofts, even if the Swans don't go up. Agree in principle although we havent seen Allen properly at senior level yet, he may not adapt either. Imo, once we have found a player that can fill a role competently then they have to start from then on, even if they play at the arse end of the championship. |
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Post by ericyoung on May 3, 2011 8:54:32 GMT
Increasing options can never be a bad thing!
Can someone clear up the situation with Owain Tudur Jones?
Is he injured? If so, I suppose this may be an opportunity for him
to step up?
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Post by squatter1 on May 3, 2011 20:52:11 GMT
If Crofts holds his own in the Premiership then he's on the teamsheet above almost any Championship player for me. He will have earned it. Romanticising over the potential of young players in the Champ doesnt beat opting for a player demonstrating their quality at the top level.
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Post by llannerch on May 3, 2011 21:27:18 GMT
Can someone clear up the situation with Owain Tudur Jones? Is he injured? Not sure whether he's injured, I'm pretty sure he's crap though |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2011 22:20:09 GMT
If Crofts holds his own in the Premiership then he's on the teamsheet above almost any Championship player for me. He will have earned it. Romanticising over the potential of young players in the Champ doesnt beat opting for a player demonstrating their quality at the top level. But what if he is still crap for us even when hes playing in the prem? Does Speed just look at the league table and make a decision on whether he starts based on what division Norwich are currently in? EDIT: Dont answer that because I imagine thats exactly what Speed would do  |
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Post by raptor on May 4, 2011 13:37:34 GMT
Fair play to Cofts, role reversal with Ledley who took his 'eye off the ball', figuratively speaking.
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Post by rushlegend on May 4, 2011 17:47:25 GMT
IMO because these players don't play international matches on a regular basis (i know other countries are in the same boat) then players especially like Crofts are going to find it hard to adapt. He plays every week at Norwich but only plays what two, three international matches a year?
Anyway, he hasn't played in the Prem yet, might struggle? Judge him like we have judged Vaughan who has had a blinder of a season for the Tangerines.
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Post by flynnfan on Feb 29, 2012 22:22:00 GMT
Sorry, but he isn't.
Ramsey, Allen, Collison, Vaughan and Ledley should all be ahead of him in the central midfield pecking order now and Crofts should only come in if three of those five are unavailable.
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Post by bale-droed on Feb 29, 2012 22:43:01 GMT
ramsey injured, wasnt collison carrying a bit of a knock and therefore big sam probably asked for him not to play it all?? not sure though
lefley is now a left midfielder and its difficult to switch back from left to centre especially from club to country
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Post by Tim P on Feb 29, 2012 22:45:37 GMT
I thought Crofts did okay - I think the reason we struggled was not just because of what Ramsey and Bale bring to the side, but because they also take up the attention of the opposition players to such an extent that life is made much easier for the other players. Bellamy struggled I thought, although he was probably our biggest threat, because of this too.
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Post by flynnfan on Feb 29, 2012 22:47:21 GMT
Ledley's played all over the place for Celtic, Wales and Cardiff, but Lennon thinks his best position is central midfield. alongside Allen as part of a deep -lying pair with Ramsey ahead of them could work...especially away from home.
Collison has played all of WHUs recent game and looked sharp when he came on. In fact, I thought he was our best player!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 22:51:46 GMT
Fact is we aren't really that great without Bale. Would we have won 4/5 without him? I think we would still have beaten Montenegro, but not won any of the others.
We looked solid tonight, which is good and it makes me confident that we could grind out some results next campaign. But without Bale's attacking threat and Bellamy having an off night we are pretty toothless, just like the old days. Need to bring Ched back in, hes the closest thing we have to a (potentially) prolific international striker.
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Post by njdragon on Feb 29, 2012 22:53:51 GMT
the worst perfomance ive seen from wales since the first england game last year.
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Post by flynnfan on Feb 29, 2012 22:55:14 GMT
Fact is we aren't really that great without Bale. Would we have won 4/5 without him? I think we would still have beaten Montenegro, but not won any of the others. We looked solid tonight, which is good and it makes me confident that we could grind out some results next campaign. But without Bale's attacking threat and Bellamy having an off night we are pretty toothless, just like the old days. Need to bring Ched back in, hes the closest thing we have to a (potentially) prolific international striker. Not sure about how many of our recent games we'd have won without Bale, but generally I agree with this. Bale's as important to us as Maradona was to Argentina in the 80's. |
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Post by Tim P on Feb 29, 2012 22:55:32 GMT
the worst perfomance ive seen from wales since the first england game last year. Worse than Australia? Not by a long shot in my opinion. |
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