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Post by quetzal on Dec 7, 2020 19:01:50 GMT
Scottish National team getting the rub of the green at the moment
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Post by saints19 on Dec 7, 2020 19:08:35 GMT
Scottish National team getting the rub of the green at the moment They have had good draws in the last two tournaments despite being seeded lower than us in both. Jammy Scots. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 7, 2020 19:25:49 GMT
Holy shit guys, what a group.
My liver's dreading it.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2020 19:32:06 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. To say the Czechs will definitely get a point off us, but that England will walk it against Poland just sounds like you are being pessimistic about our chances rather than objective. A Poland side lead by Lewandowski could easily get 2 or 4 points out of England, in which case a place in the playoff might be all they get which would be a national tragedy I also acknowledge the Czechs won't be walkovers, but they have no world class player meaning they were a better draw than Norway & Russia. They also don't represent one of the home nation derbies we could have had against N.I, ROI or Scotland which would have been scraps. The only other options out of that pot were Finland & Hungary, who both know plenty about us and were probably worth avoiding for that reason, and Greece who were probably the best draw in the pot - it seems to me they are the only option other than Czechs that seem relatively good to play for a few different reasons |
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Post by insertname on Dec 7, 2020 19:33:28 GMT
Not seeing it as a great draw myself. I was hoping for a weak top seed to give us a chance of auto qualification. Sadly even if we can pull one over on Belgium I think we'll drop more points than them overall. Heart says some magic against Belgium, head says play-offs. Still could be worse and there'll always be surprises - but most of these groups look pretty much of a foregone conclusion. And some nice places to visit too - although I suspect Tallinn might be a small ground limiting tickets? Exactly right. This is not the same Belgium, Wilmots was an awful manager who couldn’t shoehorn his best players into a coherent starting XI. We’ll almost definitely drop points at some point against one of the other nations and that will be the difference between us competing for the top spot, Belgium will win all their games that aren’t against us with ease. They should beat us with ease too. I don’t think Wales can be trusted yet to go to Estonia, Czech Republic and Belarus and win all of those games. In some ways I want to becry hard luck stories because we’re almost condemned to the play offs or worse by dint of the very first team drawn. But that’s the nature of WC qualifying, if you get a shit draw of the top seed you’re playing for second. |
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Post by insertname on Dec 7, 2020 19:35:49 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. I honestly can’t remember the last time England got a draw that made me wince. They’ve never pulled a strong second seed. The last time they had a nightmare draw was probably euro 2008 and they never qualified but even then they shot themselves in the foot drawing or losing away to Israel if memory serves. Lucky bastards all the time. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2020 19:37:29 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. I honestly can’t remember the last time England got a draw that made me wince. They’ve never pulled a strong second seed. The last time they had a nightmare draw was probably euro 2008 and they never qualified but even then they shot themselves in the foot drawing or losing away to Israel if memory serves. Lucky bastards all the time. Poland are probably one of the strongest 2nd seeds they could have pulled this time Agree of course they usually get an easy run & aside from 2nd seeds that's an easy group for them - mostly because they have a lot of good players to pick from though |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 7, 2020 19:37:37 GMT
Not seeing it as a great draw myself. I was hoping for a weak top seed to give us a chance of auto qualification. Sadly even if we can pull one over on Belgium I think we'll drop more points than them overall. Heart says some magic against Belgium, head says play-offs. Still could be worse and there'll always be surprises - but most of these groups look pretty much of a foregone conclusion. And some nice places to visit too - although I suspect Tallinn might be a small ground limiting tickets? Exactly right. This is not the same Belgium, Wilmots was an awful manager who couldn’t shoehorn his best players into a coherent starting XI. We’ll almost definitely drop points at some point against one of the other nations and that will be the difference between us competing for the top spot, Belgium will win all their games that aren’t against us with ease. They should beat us with ease too. I don’t think Wales can be trusted yet to go to Estonia, Czech Republic and Belarus and win all of those games. In some ways I want to becry hard luck stories because we’re almost condemned to the play offs or worse by dint of the very first team drawn. But that’s the nature of WC qualifying, if you get a shit draw of the top seed you’re playing for second. There were only 2 teams you would say we had a real chance of topping in pot A out of 10, so a 1 in 5 chance. It was very unlikely. It isn't the best draw possible but it's far from a poor draw. |
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 7, 2020 19:38:51 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. I honestly can’t remember the last time England got a draw that made me wince. They’ve never pulled a strong second seed. The last time they had a nightmare draw was probably euro 2008 and they never qualified but even then they shot themselves in the foot drawing or losing away to Israel if memory serves. Lucky bastards all the time. They got Poland & Hungary, I think that is a tough draw for England. |
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Post by alarch on Dec 7, 2020 19:39:52 GMT
I agree that we're underdogs, but the Belgium defence isn't exceptional, and a bit on the ageing side (Vermaelen 35, Vertonghen 33, Alderweireld 31, Boyata 30). Martinez is a fantastic attacking coach, but his teams have always been a bit (or very) suspect defensively, thanks to his gung ho approach. They could be vulnerable to a counter-attacking team. Interesting to see them adopting the same formation that served us so well in the Euros - the 3-4-2-1 box wing back formation. Over the piece they will be favourites, but if injuries and suspensions kick in their squad is a lot thinner than those of France, Italy, Spain, Germany or England. Have a look at their line-up when they demolished Russia 4-1 away: www.espn.com/soccer/match?gameId=528874Interesting analysis of the game here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlq50xJt-aQ Russia adopted a 4-2-3-1 against Belgium's 3-4-2-1 and a high press. It obviously didn't go well - 3-0 down at half-time. But apparently they did get joy out wide, not surprising given how attacking Belgium's wing back selections were in T Hazard and Castagne. |
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Post by saints19 on Dec 7, 2020 19:40:06 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. To say the Czechs will definitely get a point off us, but that England will walk it against Poland just sounds like you are being pessimistic about our chances rather than objective. A Poland side lead by Lewandowski could easily get 2 or 4 points out of England, in which case a place in the playoff might be all they get which would be a national tragedy I also acknowledge the Czechs won't be walkovers, but they have no world class player meaning they were a better draw than Norway & Russia. They also don't represent one of the home nation derbies we could have had against N.I, ROI or Scotland which would have been scraps. The only other options out of that pot were Finland & Hungary, who both know plenty about us and were probably worth avoiding for that reason, and Greece who were probably the best draw in the pot - it seems to me they are the only option other than Czechs that seem relatively good to play for a few different reasons To be fair I didn't really say England would walk it against Poland, I said the Poles could cause an upset, but not in my view over the whole group (and England were basically guaranteed at least 2nd). I reckon even if the Poles get the better of England over the two games, England will get 6 points off Hungary and Poland may get 1 or 2 and England will overall win the group. But that's just my opinion. As far as the Czechs are concerned, for me they are better than Scotland, NI or ROI. And probably Hungary and Finland. The Czechs won their NL group and finished 2nd in their Euros group. The Czechs were maybe the 3rd best team in pot 3, after Russia and Norway. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 7, 2020 19:42:24 GMT
England got the warm balls as usual. God how do they keep getting these groups. I know there wasn't a big hitter in pot 2 but they could at least have got Russia or Norway from pot 3 instead of Hungary (who are still decent, but don't have the individual quality to upset a top team). And bugger all challenge from the lower pots. It's like they're guaranteed at least 2nd before a ball's even been kicked. I honestly can’t remember the last time England got a draw that made me wince. They’ve never pulled a strong second seed. The last time they had a nightmare draw was probably euro 2008 and they never qualified but even then they shot themselves in the foot drawing or losing away to Israel if memory serves. Lucky bastards all the time. Lol. Poland's striker was the world's best player this year, they have a squad packed with players from the top leagues in Europe, they topped their Euros group with 25 points out of 30 and weren't out of their Nations League group (containing 2 of the most in form nations in Europe) until the final weekend of fixtures. Who did you think they could possibly draw that would give them a tougher time than that? |
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Post by Agent B on Dec 7, 2020 19:43:00 GMT
Could have been a lot worse so I'm happy with that group.
With it only being a 5 team group, a couple of friendlies to fit in, possibly from teams grouped with the other home nations??
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2020 19:43:43 GMT
If you consider the best & worst scenarios in a 5 team group, I'd say this is easily towards the easier end of the spectrum...
Best: Croatia, Cymru, Greece, Luxembourg, Andorra
Worst: France, Cymru, Norway, Slovenia, Kosovo
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 7, 2020 19:46:29 GMT
Could have been a lot worse so I'm happy with that group. With it only being a 5 team group, a couple of friendlies to fit in, possibly from teams grouped with the other home nations?? ROI & NI we can. Not England and Scotland as they are in six team groups. We can only play teams in Groups A-D in the friendlies, other than Italy, France & Spain, plus non UEFA nations. |
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Post by superunknown on Dec 7, 2020 19:47:34 GMT
Two qualifiers in March, and a friendly. Fixtures released tomorrow around 6pm according to Dragon Soccer.
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Dec 7, 2020 19:56:55 GMT
Kieffer will suprise the Belgium defence.
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Post by quetzal on Dec 7, 2020 19:57:00 GMT
We got Belgium’s number and they know it
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Post by saints19 on Dec 7, 2020 19:57:04 GMT
Realistically what's our goal in this group? Finish second with the best record of second-placed teams and be seeded for the play-offs? Or does anyone seriously think we can win the group?
Just looking at their recent qualifying campaigns, Belgium dropped 0 points for Euro 2020, 2 points for WC 2018, and 7 points for Euro 2016. So in their last 2 campaigns they've dropped 2 points. The Euro 2016 campaign despite taking 4 points off them we failed to finish ahead of them.
The only way I could see us winning the group is ekeing out two draws against Belgium with a lot of luck, with the away goal head to head advantage, and also beating the Czechs, Belarus and Estonia home and away. That's outrageously hard.
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 7, 2020 19:58:26 GMT
0-0 in Brussels and a 1-0 smash and grab at home. Piece of piss.
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Post by quetzal on Dec 7, 2020 20:03:16 GMT
Realistically what's our goal in this group? Finish second with the best record of second-placed teams and be seeded for the play-offs? Or does anyone seriously think we can win the group? Just looking at their recent qualifying campaigns, Belgium dropped 0 points for Euro 2020, 2 points for WC 2018, and 7 points for Euro 2016. So in their last 2 campaigns they've dropped 2 points. The Euro 2016 campaign despite taking 4 points off them we failed to finish ahead of them. The only way I could see us winning the group is ekeing out two draws against Belgium with a lot of luck, with the away goal head to head advantage, and also beating the Czechs, Belarus and Estonia home and away. That's outrageously hard. I think we can win the group if we have full squad available |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 7, 2020 20:07:43 GMT
So in their last 2 campaigns they've dropped 2 points. Yeah, but they didn't face us. |
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Dec 7, 2020 20:09:47 GMT
Belgium obviously have more world class players but we might as well not turn up to play in this group given the doom and gloom.
Belgium have not BEATEN Wales since 2012 and that was because Collins got sent off and in the subsequent 4 meetings its 2 draws and 2 WINS .
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Post by cadno on Dec 7, 2020 20:14:08 GMT
Play offs amdani!
Good away trips anyway... Looking forward to Belarus!
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Post by gwernybwch on Dec 7, 2020 20:43:07 GMT
Kieffer will suprise the Belgium defence. With his lack of goal celebration? |
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Post by quetzal on Dec 7, 2020 20:49:38 GMT
Just looking at the badges of all the teams in group E. What was Ford thinking? We had a great badge. The current one is good. But the original was great. I don’t buy all this nonsense about the new badge being more computer and brand friendly. Load of bull
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Post by insertname on Dec 7, 2020 21:31:04 GMT
Exactly right. This is not the same Belgium, Wilmots was an awful manager who couldn’t shoehorn his best players into a coherent starting XI. We’ll almost definitely drop points at some point against one of the other nations and that will be the difference between us competing for the top spot, Belgium will win all their games that aren’t against us with ease. They should beat us with ease too. I don’t think Wales can be trusted yet to go to Estonia, Czech Republic and Belarus and win all of those games. In some ways I want to becry hard luck stories because we’re almost condemned to the play offs or worse by dint of the very first team drawn. But that’s the nature of WC qualifying, if you get a shit draw of the top seed you’re playing for second. There were only 2 teams you would say we had a real chance of topping in pot A out of 10, so a 1 in 5 chance. It was very unlikely. It isn't the best draw possible but it's far from a poor draw. Perhaps not if you take out Belgium, but without wanting to be defeatist I don’t see how we can compete with Martinez’s Belgium given the form they are in now. That aside I’ll be very surprised if we take maximum points off the others too. Let’s hope this post doesn’t age well and we can look back on it and laugh. Not that I’ll laugh too much about qualifying for a bloody Christmas World Cup mind! |
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Post by jono on Dec 7, 2020 21:31:34 GMT
It's not entirely out of the equation Czech could take points off Belgium either.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2020 22:19:59 GMT
Realistically what's our goal in this group? Finish second with the best record of second-placed teams and be seeded for the play-offs? Or does anyone seriously think we can win the group?
Just looking at their recent qualifying campaigns, Belgium dropped 0 points for Euro 2020, 2 points for WC 2018, and 7 points for Euro 2016. So in their last 2 campaigns they've dropped 2 points. The Euro 2016 campaign despite taking 4 points off them we failed to finish ahead of them. The only way I could see us winning the group is ekeing out two draws against Belgium with a lot of luck, with the away goal head to head advantage, and also beating the Czechs, Belarus and Estonia home and away. That's outrageously hard. Go for automatics, failing that end up with 2nd place and seeded for the playoffs, and failing that we have the backup of an unseeded playoff Of course we can win the group. Does anyone seriously think it's impossible to win the group? We've never gone into a group campaign before with the guarantee of a playoff - this changes the dynamic & takes pressure off us. It's everything to gain from those Belgium games for us now |
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Post by welshrover on Dec 7, 2020 22:53:04 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much about a team managed by a bloke who used to play for Chester 😃
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