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Post by iot on Oct 8, 2023 12:51:35 GMT
Yes, that's the one, which coincided with us struggling in midfield and losing control for large periods of the second half. Compare that with the first half where we were excellent for the first 35mins with Ramsey on top form. That game perfectly demonstrates why he's going to be such a miss. Well Ramsey didn’t play v Croatia at all in 2019 and was off the pitch when we equalised out in Split. Well we had a certain someone to Bale us out against Croatia back in 2019, and we were just massively jammy in Split, so I'm not sure what that proves. We're always going to be underdogs, but I just think without Ramsey our chances of getting a result are probably around 20-25%, whereas with him it's probably more like 25-30%. He's a much bigger loss for the last couple of games though. I really can't see us getting 6 points against Armenia and Turkey without him.
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 8, 2023 18:53:35 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present.
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Post by iot on Oct 8, 2023 19:43:46 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present. Our only priority now should be to do everything we can to get to Germany. This is not the time to be thinking about phasing in / phasing out players
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Post by eppingblue1 on Oct 8, 2023 20:32:07 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present. Our only priority now should be to do everything we can to get to Germany. This is not the time to be thinking about phasing in / phasing out players Right now we need to make sure we beat Gibraltar this week. Mad as it sounds but anything else will put us perilously close to pot 3 for the world cup draw coming some time next year. Cant really afford another defeat to Armenia either.
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 8, 2023 20:44:22 GMT
Our only priority now should be to do everything we can to get to Germany. This is not the time to be thinking about phasing in / phasing out players Right now we need to make sure we beat Gibraltar this week. Mad as it sounds but anything else will put us perilously close to pot 3 for the world cup draw coming some time next year. Cant really afford another defeat to Armenia either. The World Cup draw will be no earlier than the end of November 2024, after the group stage of the nations league. Lots of football to play before then.
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 8, 2023 20:54:21 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present. Our only priority now should be to do everything we can to get to Germany. This is not the time to be thinking about phasing in / phasing out players Absolutely but we need to get used to him not being around because right now he's not, playing Brooks in the role isn't really a phase in or out.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 9:18:35 GMT
The Latvia game is going to be nothing like the Croatia game and we will have far less of the ball, which for me makes Ramsey less of a miss than someone like Dan James or Brennan Johnson would be Someone like Ramsey is especially important in games where you don't see much of the ball as you need someone who can actually keep it and use it effectively when we do have the ball. There's more to counter attacking an sitting back than just pace That's true, although I'd propose we play two 10s in behind Moore, similar to the Coleman system, rather than Ramsey as a sole 10, so my hope would be having two more athletic 10s instead of just Ramsey there would be equally as solid defensively, that box midfield creating an extra man
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Post by iot on Oct 9, 2023 10:30:47 GMT
Someone like Ramsey is especially important in games where you don't see much of the ball as you need someone who can actually keep it and use it effectively when we do have the ball. There's more to counter attacking an sitting back than just pace That's true, although I'd propose we play two 10s in behind Moore, similar to the Coleman system, rather than Ramsey as a sole 10, so my hope would be having two more athletic 10s instead of just Ramsey there would be equally as solid defensively, that box midfield creating an extra man Where would DJ fit in your double-10 system? I think he's the perfect type of player to have in this game, but obviously will be expected to provide width.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 10:42:25 GMT
That's true, although I'd propose we play two 10s in behind Moore, similar to the Coleman system, rather than Ramsey as a sole 10, so my hope would be having two more athletic 10s instead of just Ramsey there would be equally as solid defensively, that box midfield creating an extra man Where would DJ fit in your double-10 system? I think he's the perfect type of player to have in this game, but obviously will be expected to provide width. He'd be one of the 10s but of course he'd naturally drift wide, it's more out of possession that he'd be filling a sort of 10 role. To be fair, I guess he could do a similar thing if he was considered a striker or a 10 he'd just have to be disciplined in tracking back to defend either way which we know he can do
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Post by zserty on Oct 9, 2023 10:43:40 GMT
That's true, although I'd propose we play two 10s in behind Moore, similar to the Coleman system, rather than Ramsey as a sole 10, so my hope would be having two more athletic 10s instead of just Ramsey there would be equally as solid defensively, that box midfield creating an extra man Where would DJ fit in your double-10 system? I think he's the perfect type of player to have in this game, but obviously will be expected to provide width. Having Brooks and DJ playing behind Moore would be interesting. Could see DJ having a bit of freedom to go wide and play off Moore. I'd imagine Brooks would stay more central and Roberts would provide the width on the right.
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Post by iot on Oct 9, 2023 12:07:54 GMT
Where would DJ fit in your double-10 system? I think he's the perfect type of player to have in this game, but obviously will be expected to provide width. He'd be one of the 10s but of course he'd naturally drift wide, it's more out of possession that he'd be filling a sort of 10 role. To be fair, I guess he could do a similar thing if he was considered a striker or a 10 he'd just have to be disciplined in tracking back to defend either way which we know he can do Yeah I think that's pretty much how he plays anyway tbh. I don't think he'd play as a 10 in the same way Rambo and Bale did, so it's probably just the same role he's played for us in the 532 formation in the past
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Post by quetzal on Oct 15, 2023 21:18:01 GMT
I was just trying to be positive and think that we can go and get a few results. But obviously a few on here who believe the sky is now falling in. Did the sky fall in lads?
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 15, 2023 21:27:40 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present. David and Harry stepped up to more than collectively fill the void.
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Post by zserty on Oct 15, 2023 23:09:32 GMT
We're coming to the end of Ramsey's time with Wales and Brooks is 26, the time is now to start getting used to not having Ramsey around, others need to step up and we need to become a collectively good side rather than having to rely too much on the quality of a few. We have the ingredients, I'm just not 100% sold on the chef at present. David and Harry stepped up to more than collectively fill the void. The two of them start the next games for me, if Ramsey is fit by then he will have a lot of work to do given their performances.
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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 7:24:26 GMT
Brooks does the stuff that Ramsey used to. Thought he an Modric were the best players on the pitch by some distance last night.
I think if everyone's fit, Aaron should now usually start on the bench. Questions are whether he'd be happy to accept that and whether Page will accept that he's not now an automatic first choice.
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Post by dai on Oct 16, 2023 9:30:21 GMT
I mentioned on another thread that Wilson should be ahead of Ramsey now, and last night just confirmed my thoughts.
Wilson and Ramsey are the most like for like players if you ask me, and unfortunately for Ramsey, he may be finding himself being a sub from now on.
Last night was an example, just like our opponents in the WC, how important youth and energy is. I still think he's a very good player, however I just don't think we can justify starting him from now on. It's sad, because he is our captain, but football doesn't stand still. Croatia had a loads of experience in midfield last night, but youth won.
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Post by iot on Oct 16, 2023 14:00:19 GMT
It doesn't look like Rambo will be fit for the final group games so it's not a problem we need to think about now anyway. But I think this talk about him being dropped is very premature - he was still our best player in the last window imo and is playing great stuff at club level. I don't buy this stuff about a lack of energy at all, he offers just as much, if not more than the others, despite his age. But I completely agree that Wilson and Brooks were fantastic last night. Great to have those options (with DJ also part of the mix too of course). Will be interesting to see how we approach it when everyone's fit - it's just sad that we probably won't have that opportunity next month
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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 14:20:06 GMT
It doesn't look like Rambo will be fit for the final group games so it's not a problem we need to think about now anyway. But I think this talk about him being dropped is very premature - he was still our best player in the last window imo and is playing great stuff at club level. I don't buy this stuff about a lack of energy at all, he offers just as much, if not more than the others, despite his age. But I completely agree that Wilson and Brooks were fantastic last night. Great to have those options (with DJ also part of the mix too of course). Will be interesting to see how we approach it when everyone's fit - it's just sad that we probably won't have that opportunity next month Still very much part of our plans I'd say and hopefully for a while yet. Hopeful that if he did step back a bit, we could manage his time to everyone's benefit. Also, if the pressure is off him to be the main man, with others stepping up, he may well become even more effective.
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Post by zserty on Oct 16, 2023 14:31:10 GMT
It doesn't look like Rambo will be fit for the final group games so it's not a problem we need to think about now anyway. But I think this talk about him being dropped is very premature - he was still our best player in the last window imo and is playing great stuff at club level. I don't buy this stuff about a lack of energy at all, he offers just as much, if not more than the others, despite his age. But I completely agree that Wilson and Brooks were fantastic last night. Great to have those options (with DJ also part of the mix too of course). Will be interesting to see how we approach it when everyone's fit - it's just sad that we probably won't have that opportunity next month I see it quite simply as can Ramsey play like Brooks did last night - no. Can he cover as much ground as Wilson did last night - no. And should he play instead of JJ alongside Ampadu - god no. Still a useful player but i think last night has shown what we are capable of offensively with dynamic offensive players playing off Kieffer.
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 14:41:08 GMT
This is one decision Page got wrong I feel
Think it is obvious to most he should have picked the best candidate for captain and not the best available player of the 'past' 15 years as captain.
Ben Davies is more captain material and being left footed and still playing close to his best is a shoe in into the side when available. Picking Ramsey as captain has left Page in an awkward position if available. I guess he did it just in case Ramsey was thinking of quitting?
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Post by iot on Oct 16, 2023 15:22:41 GMT
It doesn't look like Rambo will be fit for the final group games so it's not a problem we need to think about now anyway. But I think this talk about him being dropped is very premature - he was still our best player in the last window imo and is playing great stuff at club level. I don't buy this stuff about a lack of energy at all, he offers just as much, if not more than the others, despite his age. But I completely agree that Wilson and Brooks were fantastic last night. Great to have those options (with DJ also part of the mix too of course). Will be interesting to see how we approach it when everyone's fit - it's just sad that we probably won't have that opportunity next month I see it quite simply as can Ramsey play like Brooks did last night - no. Can he cover as much ground as Wilson did last night - no. And should he play instead of JJ alongside Ampadu - god no. Still a useful player but i think last night has shown what we are capable of offensively with dynamic offensive players playing off Kieffer. Disagree on your first two points. He certainly can play like Brooks did last night - he very much still has that in his locker. He also regularly tops the distance covered stats. Agree with you on the third point, he needs to play alongside two other more defensively disciplined midfielders to strike the right balance.
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 15:41:58 GMT
Brooks hardly lost the ball last night and made excellent decisions. One problem with Ramsey is he can lose discipline in his positional play, while he can also overplay or complicate things - like losing the ball trying an extravagant flick rather than a simple pass sometimes
Still lucky to have him, while he is still capable of changing games and is a highly technical player.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 16, 2023 15:47:03 GMT
If Ramsey was miraculously fully fit for the upcoming double header, likewise Dan James and Johnson, I'd still go for a Moore, Wilson and Brooks combo. But there wouldn't be much in it.
I understand why there is a tendency to have a recency bias and to lose a bit of perspective, but why, after such a magnificent display is it necessary to even mention players that aren't available anyway? Let's accentuate the positive and enjoy the fact that we have a lot talent of similar quality available to us in attacking positions.
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 16, 2023 18:27:32 GMT
Brooks hardly lost the ball last night and made excellent decisions. One problem with Ramsey is he can lose discipline in his positional play, while he can also overplay or complicate things - like losing the ball trying an extravagant flick rather than a simple pass sometimes Still lucky to have him, while he is still capable of changing games and is a highly technical player. Brooks lost the ball a couple of times with an extravagant flick as well mind
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 16, 2023 18:28:51 GMT
It doesn't look like Rambo will be fit for the final group games so it's not a problem we need to think about now anyway. But I think this talk about him being dropped is very premature - he was still our best player in the last window imo and is playing great stuff at club level. I don't buy this stuff about a lack of energy at all, he offers just as much, if not more than the others, despite his age. But I completely agree that Wilson and Brooks were fantastic last night. Great to have those options (with DJ also part of the mix too of course). Will be interesting to see how we approach it when everyone's fit - it's just sad that we probably won't have that opportunity next month I see it quite simply as can Ramsey play like Brooks did last night - no. Can he cover as much ground as Wilson did last night - no. And should he play instead of JJ alongside Ampadu - god no. Still a useful player but i think last night has shown what we are capable of offensively with dynamic offensive players playing off Kieffer. Yes he can and yes he can, you're right about Ramsey not being able to play where James did I'd love to know where this idea that Ramsey doesn't cover ground has come from
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Post by iot on Oct 16, 2023 18:41:06 GMT
Brooks hardly lost the ball last night and made excellent decisions. One problem with Ramsey is he can lose discipline in his positional play, while he can also overplay or complicate things - like losing the ball trying an extravagant flick rather than a simple pass sometimes Still lucky to have him, while he is still capable of changing games and is a highly technical player. Nah, I just watched the full game back. Brooks was brilliant, but did lose the ball 5-10 times - mostly as a result of playing high risk passes, which should be encouraged, while on a couple of occasions his touch was heavy and he was not on the same page as Moore. The good thing is I suspect Brooks has another level to get to and is probably still not quite back to his best
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Post by zserty on Oct 16, 2023 18:41:24 GMT
I see it quite simply as can Ramsey play like Brooks did last night - no. Can he cover as much ground as Wilson did last night - no. And should he play instead of JJ alongside Ampadu - god no. Still a useful player but i think last night has shown what we are capable of offensively with dynamic offensive players playing off Kieffer. Yes he can and yes he can, you're right about Ramsey not being able to play where James did I'd love to know where this idea that Ramsey doesn't cover ground has come from Current 33 year old Ramsey cannot play as Brooks or Wilson did in my opinion, still a useful player with a lot of quality. I just dont think he matches either of the two in terms of mobility. The energy in our side last night won it for us.
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 19:39:05 GMT
Brooks hardly lost the ball last night and made excellent decisions. One problem with Ramsey is he can lose discipline in his positional play, while he can also overplay or complicate things - like losing the ball trying an extravagant flick rather than a simple pass sometimes rose ti Still lucky to have him, while he is still capable of changing games and is a highly technical player. Nah, I just watched the full game back. Brooks was brilliant, but did lose the ball 5-10 times - mostly as a result of playing high risk passes, which should be encouraged, while on a couple of occasions his touch was heavy and he was not on the same page as Moore. The good thing is I suspect Brooks has another level to get to and is probably still not quite back to his best Ok - must admit I did not see that - I take your word for it. From watching it live he just seemed to float over the grass, with instant control and making the right decision. Must have been looking at it through rose tinted glasses as he is probably my favourite player! Even I have a sentimental side!
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Post by iot on Oct 24, 2023 21:28:50 GMT
Well, Ramsey's rumoured to be close to returning. Apparently he's back in light training, and could even make the bench for Cardiff at the weekend. Will be great to have him back for the last couple of games. I imagine it'll be a case of starting Brooks in one game and Ramsey in the other
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Post by manulike on Oct 24, 2023 22:09:13 GMT
Well, Ramsey's rumoured to be close to returning. Apparently he's back in light training, and could even make the bench for Cardiff at the weekend. Will be great to have him back for the last couple of games. I imagine it'll be a case of starting Brooks in one game and Ramsey in the other #MakeItHappen
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