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Post by erasedcitizen on Apr 14, 2024 10:38:59 GMT
Wrexham supporters and people who live in the area I love rugby as well as football and am just curious as to whether you think a regional rugby team in Wrexham / North Wales could ever work there? On the rugby forum it is always dismissed and I know a lot of people in North Wales may dislike football but as a South Walian in exile I think this is a bit of an arrogant backwards looking attitude. Sure football will always be the first love by a distance in terms of fans and young talented kids in North Wales but is there not an opportunity over a 10-20 year period to build up a regional team as athletic, talented kids who do not make it at football could make a big impact in a sport like rugby? How often is rugby played in schools in Wrexham and North Wales? I know this is a football forum and Wrexham have just got promoted but I did not realise Wrexham had such a large population - The 2021 Census estimates the population of Wrexham County Borough to be around 135,100 people - and am just curious A reasonably successful team would manage decent gates. Rugby League is played up in North Wales but since they haven't been Super League attendances have been in the hundreds. When Crusaders were Super League, thousands would attend and hundreds would go to away matches. I went to a few myself. We used to have Scarlets games up here every so often and if memory serves me correctly they were always well attended. I think there is potential up here but we'd need a relatively successful team to back to get near the attendances of the other Welsh United Rugby Championship clubs.
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Wrexham
Apr 14, 2024 11:30:34 GMT
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Post by morg on Apr 14, 2024 11:30:34 GMT
When is the new stand going up? The hope is that work will start next season, but there's been a fair few hurdles to date. We'll know something is happening when the temporary stand comes down. So from what I can gather the capacity would then be about 16000? Would there be plans to extend beyond that e.g. if they were to establish themselves in the Championship?
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Wrexham
Apr 14, 2024 11:33:53 GMT
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Post by morg on Apr 14, 2024 11:33:53 GMT
By the way its been great that Wrexham has done Wales so proud. Lets hope we get a couple of Welsh boys in the team next season - as that would be the cherry on the cake! Was weird to see 4 or 5 players celebrating behind an Irish flag yesterday. Fair play to them for their contribution but would be good to see more of a Welsh contingent also!
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Post by hooky on Apr 14, 2024 12:00:58 GMT
Its very strange as North Wales has always been a hotbed of Welsh football - Rush, Hughes, Southall and Ratcliffe at the same time particularly stands out in the memory
The higher Wrexham go the more attractive they will become for footballers with roots in North Wales and academy talent - so lets hope that happens!
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Wrexham
Apr 14, 2024 12:34:18 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on Apr 14, 2024 12:34:18 GMT
The hope is that work will start next season, but there's been a fair few hurdles to date. We'll know something is happening when the temporary stand comes down. So from what I can gather the capacity would then be about 16000? Would there be plans to extend beyond that e.g. if they were to establish themselves in the Championship? The Yale and University stands both require work that would likely see them demolished and rebuilt. Beyond that, the Mold Road Stand would need some work but I can't see that one coming down. If we can then fill in the corners, I can see the ground going above 20k.
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Post by robin1864 on Apr 15, 2024 21:47:35 GMT
So from what I can gather the capacity would then be about 16000? Would there be plans to extend beyond that e.g. if they were to establish themselves in the Championship? The Yale and University stands both require work that would likely see them demolished and rebuilt. Beyond that, the Mold Road Stand would need some work but I can't see that one coming down. If we can then fill in the corners, I can see the ground going above 20k. It'd be nice to stay at the Racecourse well into the future, but I think after the Kop is completed we're stuck with what we've got. The Tech end basically has no room for further expansion unless the Uni are willing to sell a parcel of land to the club, and the Yale stand would eat into an already cramped car park shared with those bastard student digs. Establishing ourselves in the Championship and beyond, along with becoming a more viable home for future Wales games would require increased focus on stuff like parking spaces, media facilities, conference rooms, executive boxes etc. etc. etc. Put simply, the Racecourse has just about enough space for where we're currently sat, but beyond League One we'd have to consider futureproofing all of the demands that modern, professional football asks of its clubs, and it'd likely be far easier to build an enclosed, upscaled model of the Racecourse on Ruthin Road next to Bricky than trying to fit more people in a cramped spot on Mold Road which never previously exceeded 15,500 safely or sustainably.
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Post by wirralwelsh on Apr 15, 2024 23:06:05 GMT
Jordan Davies the only Welsh first team squad player isn't he? Unless you count the scouse striker. The big northern English academy clubs routinely cream off the promising players from Wrexham's junior teams and all the best talents from Denbishshire and Flintshire end up at the big Liverpool and Manchester clubs so its hard to see how they can compete.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Apr 16, 2024 21:55:17 GMT
The Yale and University stands both require work that would likely see them demolished and rebuilt. Beyond that, the Mold Road Stand would need some work but I can't see that one coming down. If we can then fill in the corners, I can see the ground going above 20k. It'd be nice to stay at the Racecourse well into the future, but I think after the Kop is completed we're stuck with what we've got. The Tech end basically has no room for further expansion unless the Uni are willing to sell a parcel of land to the club, and the Yale stand would eat into an already cramped car park shared with those bastard student digs. Establishing ourselves in the Championship and beyond, along with becoming a more viable home for future Wales games would require increased focus on stuff like parking spaces, media facilities, conference rooms, executive boxes etc. etc. etc. Put simply, the Racecourse has just about enough space for where we're currently sat, but beyond League One we'd have to consider futureproofing all of the demands that modern, professional football asks of its clubs, and it'd likely be far easier to build an enclosed, upscaled model of the Racecourse on Ruthin Road next to Bricky than trying to fit more people in a cramped spot on Mold Road which never previously exceeded 15,500 safely or sustainably. There's ample room to build on the Yale stand and we could build upwards for the tech end, a bit like Fulham were forced to with one of their ends. Fill in the corners and you could take it over 20k which would be plenty unless we became an established premier league club. Think you'll get a lot of disagreement on moving and for good reason. The ground is well situated where it is, walking distance from the town and right by a station. There's no viable option to move while keeping all of that. You'd end up in a crappy industrial estate out of town with a newly built Marstons pub nearby. Did you go to Shrewsbury? Harrowing stuff.
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Wrexham
Apr 17, 2024 10:40:20 GMT
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Post by morg on Apr 17, 2024 10:40:20 GMT
Jordan Davies the only Welsh first team squad player isn't he? Unless you count the scouse striker. The big northern English academy clubs routinely cream off the promising players from Wrexham's junior teams and all the best talents from Denbishshire and Flintshire end up at the big Liverpool and Manchester clubs so its hard to see how they can compete. As far as I can see, next team beneath the men's first team is the U18s? (Where squad is about 80% stated as English and 20% Welsh). Time for the addition of U21s now which could be more of a direct feed into the first team?
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Wrexham
Apr 17, 2024 10:43:48 GMT
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Post by morg on Apr 17, 2024 10:43:48 GMT
It'd be nice to stay at the Racecourse well into the future, but I think after the Kop is completed we're stuck with what we've got. The Tech end basically has no room for further expansion unless the Uni are willing to sell a parcel of land to the club, and the Yale stand would eat into an already cramped car park shared with those bastard student digs. Establishing ourselves in the Championship and beyond, along with becoming a more viable home for future Wales games would require increased focus on stuff like parking spaces, media facilities, conference rooms, executive boxes etc. etc. etc. Put simply, the Racecourse has just about enough space for where we're currently sat, but beyond League One we'd have to consider futureproofing all of the demands that modern, professional football asks of its clubs, and it'd likely be far easier to build an enclosed, upscaled model of the Racecourse on Ruthin Road next to Bricky than trying to fit more people in a cramped spot on Mold Road which never previously exceeded 15,500 safely or sustainably. There's ample room to build on the Yale stand and we could build upwards for the tech end, a bit like Fulham were forced to with one of their ends. Fill in the corners and you could take it over 20k which would be plenty unless we became an established premier league club. Think you'll get a lot of disagreement on moving and for good reason. The ground is well situated where it is, walking distance from the town and right by a station. There's no viable option to move while keeping all of that. You'd end up in a crappy industrial estate out of town with a newly built Marstons pub nearby. Did you go to Shrewsbury? Harrowing stuff. From all I've seen and read, the Racecourse is a huge part of the Hollywood project. Can't see the owners dispensing with that lightly.
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Post by eppingblue1 on Apr 17, 2024 12:10:32 GMT
Plenty of room available to the rear of the new stand. Move it 6 - 7 m towards the station and you'll have that extra room for the eventual redevelopment of the other end. You also be able to keep the temporary stand there during the new stand construction.
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Post by welshrover on Apr 18, 2024 6:29:21 GMT
It'd be nice to stay at the Racecourse well into the future, but I think after the Kop is completed we're stuck with what we've got. The Tech end basically has no room for further expansion unless the Uni are willing to sell a parcel of land to the club, and the Yale stand would eat into an already cramped car park shared with those bastard student digs. Establishing ourselves in the Championship and beyond, along with becoming a more viable home for future Wales games would require increased focus on stuff like parking spaces, media facilities, conference rooms, executive boxes etc. etc. etc. Put simply, the Racecourse has just about enough space for where we're currently sat, but beyond League One we'd have to consider futureproofing all of the demands that modern, professional football asks of its clubs, and it'd likely be far easier to build an enclosed, upscaled model of the Racecourse on Ruthin Road next to Bricky than trying to fit more people in a cramped spot on Mold Road which never previously exceeded 15,500 safely or sustainably. There's ample room to build on the Yale stand and we could build upwards for the tech end, a bit like Fulham were forced to with one of their ends. Fill in the corners and you could take it over 20k which would be plenty unless we became an established premier league club. Think you'll get a lot of disagreement on moving and for good reason. The ground is well situated where it is, walking distance from the town and right by a station. There's no viable option to move while keeping all of that. You'd end up in a crappy industrial estate out of town with a newly built Marstons pub nearby. Did you go to Shrewsbury? Harrowing stuff. Agree totally with your last statement. During the 70's / 80's I had "ticked off" every ground in the league and a good few non league. Over time however the proper central to town grounds started getting replaced with soulless Lego stadiums built in the middle of nowhere (think Walsall etc). I don't support Wrexham but if I did I would want to stay put.
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Post by garynysmon on Apr 18, 2024 11:42:06 GMT
Jordan Davies the only Welsh first team squad player isn't he? Unless you count the scouse striker. The big northern English academy clubs routinely cream off the promising players from Wrexham's junior teams and all the best talents from Denbishshire and Flintshire end up at the big Liverpool and Manchester clubs so its hard to see how they can compete. As far as I can see, next team beneath the men's first team is the U18s? (Where squad is about 80% stated as English and 20% Welsh). Time for the addition of U21s now which could be more of a direct feed into the first team? There is a reserve side but they play their home games in Nantwich. Which is a bit baffling when there are a myriad of grounds in north east Wales. Wrexham have been very good at playing up their Welshness in the public sphere but I'm amazed that stuff like playing in Nantwich and no obvious effort to have actual Welsh players hasn't garnered more flak tbh. I always say that you have two options as a Football League club: You can be an EFL club that happens to play its football in Wales, or a Welsh football club that happens to compete in an English league.
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Post by bale-droed on Apr 18, 2024 11:57:30 GMT
As far as I can see, next team beneath the men's first team is the U18s? (Where squad is about 80% stated as English and 20% Welsh). Time for the addition of U21s now which could be more of a direct feed into the first team? There is a reserve side but they play their home games in Nantwich. Which is a bit baffling when there are a myriad of grounds in north east Wales. Wrexham have been very good at playing up their Welshness in the public sphere but I'm amazed that stuff like playing in Nantwich and no obvious effort to have actual Welsh players hasn't garnered more flak tbh. I always say that you have two options as a Football League club: You can be an EFL club that happens to play its football in Wales, or a Welsh football club that happens to compete in an English league. I agree with posts you make so often. This one is no different. There's been so many Welsh players they could've signed in the 5th tier and league 2. I wish just one of our sides had a 6 plus 5 rule, just something to have some Welsh identity. I stopped supporting Cardiff years ago. Don't even do announcements in Welsh and get no criticism for it.
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Post by fiveattheback on Apr 18, 2024 21:30:43 GMT
There is a reserve side but they play their home games in Nantwich. Which is a bit baffling when there are a myriad of grounds in north east Wales. Wrexham have been very good at playing up their Welshness in the public sphere but I'm amazed that stuff like playing in Nantwich and no obvious effort to have actual Welsh players hasn't garnered more flak tbh. I always say that you have two options as a Football League club: You can be an EFL club that happens to play its football in Wales, or a Welsh football club that happens to compete in an English league. I agree with posts you make so often. This one is no different. There's been so many Welsh players they could've signed in the 5th tier and league 2. I wish just one of our sides had a 6 plus 5 rule, just something to have some Welsh identity. I stopped supporting Cardiff years ago. Don't even do announcements in Welsh and get no criticism for it. Yes they do
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Post by gwernybwch on Apr 19, 2024 16:25:33 GMT
Just been checking whether the internet is broken in the North-East of Wales (or Hollywood) today. But it seems to working fine in Chester. And Hereford. And Tranmere......
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Post by manulike on Apr 19, 2024 18:44:23 GMT
Just been checking whether the internet is broken in the North-West of Wales (or Hollywood) today. But it seems to working fine in Chester. View AttachmentAnd Hereford. And Tranmere...... Oh. Bless!
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Wrexham
Apr 24, 2024 13:01:26 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 24, 2024 13:01:26 GMT
Bournemouth are an established PL club with a ground of 11k so anything is possible. But it would be good to see the Racecourse hit around 20k, becomes very viable to play a Nations League campaign there at that point for example
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Post by iot on Apr 30, 2024 21:46:29 GMT
Dunno how sincere they're being here. Surely they're not going to increase to a 45-thousand seater when that surpasses the local population? Would be cool to see, but probably not very sustainable! I'm assuming they're just using they're media-savviness to make some headlines in the buildup to the new documentary
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 1, 2024 6:36:24 GMT
Yeah I think that's just the maximum we can put on that land (they've probably asked the question). I doubt they'll be daft enough to make it that large, 20k would be more than enough.
Interestingly, the kop is being redesigned and will likely be larger than the initial 5.5k stated.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 1, 2024 7:33:50 GMT
I would think 20k capacity would be more than enough ( not just for the good times but inevitably when things get tough again at some point).
I noticed the figures yesterday suggested that the promotion season from the national league was a 5.5Million loss and this season a 9 million loss. Granted it’s not huge amounts of money by today’s standard ( Swansea lost 17 million) but it will be a juggling act moving forward regarding fair play. Fair play to RR he didn’t seem too bothered about the losses.
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 10:17:19 GMT
Lovely to hear that level of ambition, but clearly bonkers. McIlhenny did sound serious though. I guess if they do things one stand at a time they may find their level before getting to the hypothetical maximum.
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 10:22:13 GMT
One unknowable is just how far the media juggernaut that the M and R have unleashed can take them. You only have to look at what St Pauli have achieved that it can be possible to transcend the normal business model. Could Wrexham fill out half a stadium with fans from around the world on the back of their documentaries? Far fetched but one never knows.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 1, 2024 10:24:17 GMT
Yes the difference could/should be the PR juggernaut
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Post by CrackityJones on May 1, 2024 10:31:41 GMT
They already attract a decent attendances to their pre-season tours the other side of the pond. This will only grow the further up the pyramid they go
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Post by gimli on May 1, 2024 11:27:29 GMT
Dunno how sincere they're being here. Surely they're not going to increase to a 45-thousand seater when that surpasses the local population? Would be cool to see, but probably not very sustainable! I'm assuming they're just using they're media-savviness to make some headlines in the buildup to the new documentary While the town (or city I suppose I should say now) might technically only have a population of 45k, the county borough is about three times that, and their catchment area also extends to Flintshire and Denbighshire (and northern Powys, though that doesn't contribute much population-wise). They probably fancy their chances of drawing support from all over the north and becoming the EFL club for all of north Wales, in which case they'd have a catchment area of over half a million. And then you can also factor in the foreign fans and daytrippers. It's not that absurd to think they could fill a 45k seater, though I think they'd need continued success to build up a sustainable fanbase big enough to fill it consistently. I think a 30k seater would be a decent compromise long term.
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Post by cynonvalley on May 1, 2024 11:35:35 GMT
Even if it's not 45k, something 25k or so would still be great for north Wales. More Cymru games!
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Post by fiveattheback on May 1, 2024 11:43:59 GMT
One unknowable is just how far the media juggernaut that the M and R have unleashed can take them. You only have to look at what St Pauli have achieved that it can be possible to transcend the normal business model. Could Wrexham fill out half a stadium with fans from around the world on the back of their documentaries? Far fetched but one never knows. St Pauli aren't necessarily unique in getting good attendances in the German second tier, the average in the 2.Bundesliga this season has been higher than in the Bundesliga. They're also in a city of 2 million It's nice to hear the ambition, but the idea of Wrexham having or filling a 55,000 seater stadium is clearly nuts, that's higher than the population of Wrexham itself. A 20,000 stadium would be a good aim
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Post by melynwy on May 1, 2024 11:45:12 GMT
Even if they reached the Premier league, they'd probably have to stay there for a long time (a couple of generations...?) to grind down the strong north Wales attachments to Liverpool/Everton/Man Utd (even Leeds?). That's not to say it's impossible though! That said, one successful season down the line could swing the younger fans in an instant; there's a disproportionate amount of Blackburn Rovers fans from north west Wales in my age group, for example!
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Post by iot on May 1, 2024 11:47:02 GMT
30k would hit the sweet spot for me - think that's the threshold for international competitions so would open up a new possibility for any u21 or joint senior bids in the future.
Alongside the attendance figure, I really hope they're thinking about the acoustics and what generates a good atmosphere. I'm no expert on this, but obviously the way that stadiums are designed has a massive bearing on how noise flows through the stadium. Tottenham's new stadium is considered the gold standard and generates a great atmosphere (despite a mediocre fanbase), whilst West Ham's stadium (thanks in large part to the running track) generates a crap atmosphere despite having really goods hardcore fans. Both are pretty similar capacity wise.
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