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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 13:29:10 GMT
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Post by gwernybwch on Jan 16, 2018 13:29:10 GMT
You better be telling them Manic Street Preachers that. If it wasn't a concerted effort by the supporters, Bobby Gould would have hung on to the bitter end of his contract and dragged Welsh football even further into the mire. Gould was appointed in 1995. The manics changed their song in 1998. He left in 1999. That was 4 years, so doubt there was much more time left on his contract. Not sure what point you are trying to make? Whilst Giggs was not my preferred choice the witch hunt by some fans on social media is ridiculous. When Gould was appointed he did not receive some of the abuse Giggs is now receiving It was essentially a reply to the "support him fully or stay away". We should never mindlessly support a manager. If they aren't doing a good job we have the right to express our displeasure. Although @peoffrey makes a good point, that there shouldn't be opposition before his team has even kicked a ball.
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 16, 2018 13:31:43 GMT
Giggs would of played in niether Maybe so, but I think we need to look past the friendly issue now as there are examples of other players picking and choosing their games over time. I believe Phil stead covers this many times in his book. Whilst I am not happy he missed so many friendlies, at the time he was young, impressionable, probably saw Fergie as a father figure (he did not have one at home - Giggs is his mother’s maiden name). If he will be a success or a failure will not be down to how many friendlies he played.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 13:33:20 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 16, 2018 13:33:20 GMT
Gould was appointed in 1995. The manics changed their song in 1998. He left in 1999. That was 4 years, so doubt there was much more time left on his contract. Not sure what point you are trying to make? Whilst Giggs was not my preferred choice the witch hunt by some fans on social media is ridiculous. When Gould was appointed he did not receive some of the abuse Giggs is now receiving It was essentially a reply to the "support him fully or stay away". We should never mindlessly support a manager. If they aren't doing a good job we have the right to express our displeasure. Although @peoffrey makes a good point, that there shouldn't be opposition before his team has even kicked a ball. I agree we shouldn’t blindly support him but now he has been appointed we should surely give him a chance?
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Post by texan on Jan 16, 2018 13:34:55 GMT
I remember feeling very melancholy walking around Cardiff that Saturday afternoon after the Czech Rep match back in 2007, almost borderline grief...despite was was in fact an ok performance and a fairly decent result.
I was a massive Giggs fan, he was the first player I could recall whose career I'd followed in its entirety, from witnessing his first debut watching on tv with my dad, to physically being there clapping him off v the Czech Rep in Cardiff. He was Wales' trump card, our one crown jewel whose appearance struck fear in the opposition and gave us hope that the inevitable backs to the wall performance could be turned on its head into a win. So to know that he'd pull on that Wales shirt no more depressed me immensely.
Having a bit of an older head on my shoulders these days however and learnt a lot more about him over the years, I can accept that my view of him back then was quite coloured. Having witnessed a number of Welsh players since dwarf his lofty status in Welsh football with their stellar achievements and performances, with a fair whack of hindsight I can appreciate now he wasn't quite the Welsh legend I thought he was when he stepped off that pitch 11 years ago.
I've felt quite hesitant to see him come back into the fold as the manager, not because of his personal life, the friendly issue, his demeanour or any perceived lack of experience...all are pretty much red herrings when it come to matters on the pitch. Experience is a nice-to-have of course but in this case its not a substitute for knowledge, and any perceived knowledge of the Welsh system/structure hasn't exactly shone through either in recent times when he has spoken, or yesterday during his press conference. Of the three candidates available he was the one I felt displayed the least amount of knowledge with regards to the way Wales plays.
However, for all his faults the bloke isn't thick. Despite his comments yesterday about not being on social media he'll have known what's been going on and the fan backlash. He could so easily have stated "screw it, I don't need this" and left us all to it. So to see him willingly step into this cauldron is refreshing and says something about the man and his determination to prove himself. In all the years I've followed him this is the first time I can ever recall him not being in someone or something's (Utd) shadow, standing on his own two feet ready to stand or fall by his own decisions...this is something new from him and its intriguing!
He'll have no problems relating with the players, all the seniors in the squad will have idolised him at some point growing up, and his 24 year playing career at the very top will stand him in good stead when imparting high-ended concepts of pressure and playing until the end at the elite level onto the players. They will sit and they will listen to him intently.
Whilst his knowledge of Welsh football and the "Welsh Way" outwardly seems lacking, admittedly so do any details on what he does know. He obviously has a philosophy however as he's certainly impressed the FAW with something! I do pray however that Osian Roberts stays somewhere amongst the backroom staff to provide that continuity for the squad. The FAW did after all insist (allegedly) that any incoming manager had to work with Osian.
He has an amazing and highly-skilled squad with which to work from, something not present when he was playing, but if he goes at it like a bull in a china shop and makes sweeping changes I can see a potential car crash coming. However, if he's able to work with others and accept the help that's already there for him, Giggs has an enviable platform upon which he can build on by introducing his own concepts...I'm just a bit excited and eager now for the China Cup to find out what they are!
Best of luck Ryan...don't f*ck it up!
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 13:50:17 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 16, 2018 13:50:17 GMT
I remember feeling very melancholy walking around Cardiff that Saturday afternoon after the Czech Rep match back in 2007, almost borderline grief...despite was was in fact an ok performance and a fairly decent result. I was a massive Giggs fan, he was the first player I could recall whose career I'd followed in its entirety, from witnessing his first debut watching on tv with my dad, to physically being there clapping him off v the Czech Rep in Cardiff. He was Wales' trump card, our one crown jewel whose appearance struck fear in the opposition and gave us hope that the inevitable backs to the wall performance could be turned on its head into a win. So to know that he'd pull on that Wales shirt no more depressed me immensely. Having a bit of an older head on my shoulders these days however and learnt a lot more about him over the years, I can accept that my view of him back then was quite coloured. Having witnessed a number of Welsh players since dwarf his lofty status in Welsh football with their stellar achievements and performances, with a fair whack of hindsight I can appreciate now he wasn't quite the Welsh legend I thought he was when he stepped off that pitch 11 years ago. I've felt quite hesitant to see him come back into the fold as the manager, not because of his personal life, the friendly issue, his demeanour or any perceived lack of experience...all are pretty much red herrings when it come to matters on the pitch. Experience is a nice-to-have of course but in this case its not a substitute for knowledge, and any perceived knowledge of the Welsh system/structure hasn't exactly shone through either in recent times when he has spoken, or yesterday during his press conference. Of the three candidates available he was the one I felt displayed the least amount of knowledge with regards to the way Wales plays. However, for all his faults the bloke isn't thick. Despite his comments yesterday about not being on social media he'll have known what's been going on and the fan backlash. He could so easily have stated "screw it, I don't need this" and left us all to it. So to see him willingly step into this cauldron is refreshing and says something about the man and his determination to prove himself. In all the years I've followed him this is the first time I can ever recall him not being in someone or something's (Utd) shadow, standing on his own two feet ready to stand or fall by his own decisions...this is something new from him and its intriguing! He'll have no problems relating with the players, all the seniors in the squad will have idolised him at some point growing up, and his 24 year playing career at the very top will stand him in good stead when imparting high-ended concepts of pressure and playing until the end at the elite level onto the players. They will sit and they will listen to him intently. Whilst his knowledge of Welsh football and the "Welsh Way" outwardly seems lacking, admittedly so do any details on what he does know. He obviously has a philosophy however as he's certainly impressed the FAW with something! I do pray however that Osian Roberts stays somewhere amongst the backroom staff to provide that continuity for the squad. The FAW did after all insist (allegedly) that any incoming manager had to work with Osian. He has an amazing and highly-skilled squad with which to work from, something not present when he was playing, but if he goes at it like a bull in a china shop and makes sweeping changes I can see a potential car crash coming. However, if he's able to work with others and accept the help that's already there for him, Giggs has an enviable platform upon which he can build on by introducing his own concepts...I'm just a bit excited and eager now for the China Cup to find out what they are! Best of luck Ryan...don't f*ck it up! Agree with this. He was not my preferred choice but I believe we should support him for at least the next campaign. Our squad is too talented but limited in numbers for is not to work together for a common goal which is qualification.
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Post by welshiron on Jan 16, 2018 15:10:25 GMT
Has anyone else seen his team speech when Manager of Man Utd, probably the least inspiring speech I have ever seen.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 16:26:47 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 16, 2018 16:26:47 GMT
Has anyone else seen his team speech when Manager of Man Utd, probably the least inspiring speech I have ever seen. Yeah seen it and was one of my concerns as I have not seen him inspired before but thought he came across better in his FAW press conference
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 17:40:47 GMT
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Post by conwy10 on Jan 16, 2018 17:40:47 GMT
Has anyone else seen his team speech when Manager of Man Utd, probably the least inspiring speech I have ever seen. I remember a story about Keegan giving tactical instructions to Newcastle before they played Arsenal. He told his players Arsenal are a good passing team, we need to pass better than them. It doesn't matter if you've got the perfect game plan in your head as a manager, it'll only be as successful as how you transfer it from your head to your players. After seeing that video we simply need Osian Roberts to stay. Pay him twice as much as Giggs if we have to.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 19:44:57 GMT
Post by massivefloodlights on Jan 16, 2018 19:44:57 GMT
Had any matches been played under Gould before the realisation that it wasn’t working? Your sentence suggests otherwise. Mark Hughes is the first Welsh manager I knew so it was before my time. Giggs was appointed yesterday. No backroom staff are in place and no squad has been picked. Banners and protests seem somewhat premature. I'll give him a chance but what I'm starting to hear is very concerning, Osian not guaranteed to stay on, if he gets rid of Osian I'm done, not sure what I'll do but I'll be done. You don't buy a mansion and then start knocking down the walls, I fear it will be Osian out and a class of 92 in to replace him. They should have made it clear the backroom staff stay on and won't be undermined. It's time the FAW start to practice what they preach and remain Together to be Stronger. Close the door on the way out.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Jan 16, 2018 19:58:53 GMT
Giggs will only dig an even bigger hole for himself and alienate even more if Osian is not involved moving forward.
I hope sense prevails. That is if Osian wants to continue with the team.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 20:00:00 GMT
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Post by sleepy on Jan 16, 2018 20:00:00 GMT
It was essentially a reply to the "support him fully or stay away". We should never mindlessly support a manager. If they aren't doing a good job we have the right to express our displeasure. Although @peoffrey makes a good point, that there shouldn't be opposition before his team has even kicked a ball. I agree we shouldn’t blindly support him but now he has been appointed we should surely give him a chance? Agree with this. No competitive games till Sept - 2 friendlies in March, another 2 or 3 in May/June. Give Giggs a chance at least.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 20:12:18 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 16, 2018 20:12:18 GMT
It was essentially a reply to the "support him fully or stay away". We should never mindlessly support a manager. If they aren't doing a good job we have the right to express our displeasure. Although @peoffrey makes a good point, that there shouldn't be opposition before his team has even kicked a ball. I agree we shouldn’t blindly support him but now he has been appointed we should surely give him a chance? 100%. I think that there are a hardcore that will always support 'the team' and the vast majority of fans will give him a chance, although I think that goodwill period will be considerably shorter than the one that Coleman got (and will be even shorter if he dispenses with Osian and brings in his Salford buds). It seems that either by planning or luck he won't be managing a home game for a while, so will have a bit of time to bed his style in.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 20:12:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 20:12:58 GMT
I was due to make a good point eventually.
Watching Wales home and away is the only break I have in life. I did Serbia, Georgia and France last year with happy (hazy) memories. Cliques or a schism in our stellar support is unnecessary yet inevitable if this vocal Anti Giggs stuff gets in the way of backing eleven players on the pitch.
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 20:26:51 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 16, 2018 20:26:51 GMT
He was far from my first choice, but is here now and I'll support the team regardless of who is the Manager (although I will have to review that support if he just brings in the Salford cronies) I'm not sure that even if Giggs wanted to do it, that Mr. Ford would be encouraging it. We're in a whole new world of media where you can get a "message" across to thousands of supporters via the various social media outlets, just with a quick interview. I don't think that Mr. Ford would want him in the bear pit of a Tonypandy club house on a wet Thursday in February. On a slight tangent; it seems those hardcore fans that were against Giggs will support the team regardless, but what of those Giggs fans (who seemed to be a lot of fairweather fans), I wonder whether his appointment will change anything in them? Buy a tournament ticket? Go to away games? Or just head back to their armchairs when there is a whiff of a bad run of results. I go to home and away games, not a fair weather fan. Im a Welsh football fan. Just someone who hasn't jumped on a pathetic anti-Giggs bandwagon. I want what is best for Wales, and can see through the silly observations of not turning up for friendlies or who he happens to put his penis in! I wont be one of the hypocrites who vehemently criticised him, yet in a year or so will be singing his name in games, like many did with Coleman. A bit sensitive to comments about fairweather fans aren't you? It wasn't directed to you - or others on this board that have supported Giggs - it was a genuine question about whether Giggs being Manager would genuinely change anything about how they support Wales now. The vast majority of comments that I read on social media supporting Giggs were because they were Man U fans or 'Giggs as a player' fans. Would these people do anything different now apart from Wales games during the 'international break' from their sky box?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 22:12:38 GMT
Most of my English friends, who bear Wales no malice, see the appointment as predictable and uninspiring.
I will solely judge him on the football played and results. Nothing else. He has my support.
Is the internet a true guide for the popularity? Everyone seemed #Remain and anti-Trump before those particular results...
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Giggs
Jan 16, 2018 23:06:09 GMT
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Post by conwy10 on Jan 16, 2018 23:06:09 GMT
I'll give him a chance but what I'm starting to hear is very concerning, Osian not guaranteed to stay on, if he gets rid of Osian I'm done, not sure what I'll do but I'll be done. You don't buy a mansion and then start knocking down the walls, I fear it will be Osian out and a class of 92 in to replace him. They should have made it clear the backroom staff stay on and won't be undermined. It's time the FAW start to practice what they preach and remain Together to be Stronger. Close the door on the way out. I'll go watch England instead, maybe I'll get offered the Wales job in 4 years if I do. It's horrible seeing people not willing to back Osian Roberts, the egomaniac with no experience wants to build Wales how he wants, can't wait to see the dream team of Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes turn us into San Marino.
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 11:59:29 GMT
Post by garyspeedloyal on Jan 17, 2018 11:59:29 GMT
What have we done, already his family have come out and turned on him as per link below, Im not bothered ablout his record when he played for us, he's now managing a Welsh sqaud that did what he didnt, qualify and excel at a major championships, did he really need to do whatever with his brother's wife? All this bad publicity surrounding our new manager, did the FAW not know this was coming? Did the FAW need to employ this man, admittedly if he was guaranteed to do what Gary Speed or Chris Coleman did I could see an argument, all be it are we that desperate to win matches? We have just had our best ever World Cup campaign, Osian was a part of that and the Euro 2016 adventure, he not have brought such bad publicity with him, surly he deserved an opportunity to manage his country after all he has given as opposed to this fella? If this does not work out, how much compensation must we pay him, a player died on a football pitch in Swansea on Saturday, we dont have enough de fibs and the pitches are getting poorer by the season and grass roots football is massively under funded, if after 18 months this dont work out, will we have to pay him £1 million, money that we as a nation cant afford to throw at a player that could have prolonged his international career. Are sponsors really going to throw money at the game in Wales because a guy with very little moral codes is now our National Team Manager? Everyone knows excited and optimistic I was when the late Gary Speed became manager, I famed the Guess Who Told You So columns, I was so right about Gary Speed, I dont share any of that optimism or excitement, I actually feel with Ryan Giggs family coming out and speaking the truth about what he is he has brought the game in Wales into disrepute and the FAW have undone a lot of great work in recent times by giving this ex player the top football job in Wales ahead of less controversial recipients that have lifted the game in Wales to new heights. His playing career was almost unrivalled, truth be told he would rather sleep with his brothers wife for 8 years that prolong an international career at a time when our national team could have done with him given help to an imbalanced side, yes that may have worked in our favour in the long term but he was not to know that and he did not purposely accelerate the process. My favourite all time Welsh person took his own life whilst manager of Wales, I bet this fellas brother visited some dark places after finding out what his older, wealthier and more famous brother was up to with his wife, we have now given the most prestigous football job in Wales to a man who retired from the squad in 2007 and probably watched us play very few times pre Euro 2016, if Osian, Craig Bellamy and others lost out to this ex player what hope is there. We did not need to make this appointment and I sincerely hope he doesnt walk away with compensation, hopefully we win China Cup, do well in Nations League, get to Euro 2020 ans sell him to a club for big money to invest in grass roots football in Wales, lets behind the team and hope that those scenarios ensure that the sqaud do well and we can sell him in 2020 for big money, its not ideal but thats the only winning scenario I can see in this, also he wont get to manage us beyond 2020, a new man can come in for Qatar 2022. www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ryan-giggs-father-says-hes-14162148www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5348834/ryan-giggs-dad-slams-son-unfit-wales-manager/** I dont read the S** newspaper after Hillsborough but a link lead me to this.
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 12:20:41 GMT
Post by garyspeedloyal on Jan 17, 2018 12:20:41 GMT
Now that his family have spoken, Yes
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 13:53:21 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 17, 2018 13:53:21 GMT
I’d take anything the Wilson side of the family says with a pinch of salt.
Ryan after all uses his mother’s maiden name so not sure his “dad” should be in a position to talk about family....
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 14:10:04 GMT
Post by dai on Jan 17, 2018 14:10:04 GMT
I wouldn't take anything seriously from someone who wears a pair of glasses like that
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 14:51:43 GMT
Post by rushlegend on Jan 17, 2018 14:51:43 GMT
We have just had our best ever World Cup campaign
Yes fantastic WC campaign - didn't you know we got Egypt/Poland/Japan in Group D for Russia 2018!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeepers i despair i really do!!!
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 17:32:09 GMT
Post by pendragon on Jan 17, 2018 17:32:09 GMT
I didn't like that article to be honest. It's all very personal and I don't really feel that it belongs in the public domain. I don't want to hear any more about his personal life. It is not really relevant or constructive to the discussion of Giggs in his Managerial role.
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 18:55:31 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 17, 2018 18:55:31 GMT
I wouldn't take anything seriously from someone who wears a pair of glasses like that They are his best pair of safety glasses. Probably wise as it is well known that Abbandonato arranges a lone sniper attack for anyone that doesn't give nothing but the highest praise for Ryan.
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Giggs
Jan 17, 2018 22:21:52 GMT
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Post by chislenko on Jan 17, 2018 22:21:52 GMT
To be honest not had a lot of time for Danny Wilson since he released that awful Mary's Prayer record😀
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 7:27:32 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 18, 2018 7:27:32 GMT
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 12:58:45 GMT
Post by iot on Jan 18, 2018 12:58:45 GMT
A good article on the whole, but the analysis comparing bale and giggs is majorly flawed. They come to the conclusion that Giggs' friendly record is comparable to Bale's because only 20.05% of Bale's appearances have been in friendlies, compared to the 15.6% of Giggs'. However, that doesn't take into account the fact that we play far less friendlies now than we did back then so the proportion of a current player's friendly appearances will be much lower than it was back then. It's completely the wrong way of looking at it. What they should do is compare Bale and Giggs in the other bits of analysis they've done i.e. the proportion of friendly games available to them that they've played in, and most importantly the proportion of friendly games they've missed but gone on to play for their clubs a few days later. I literally cannot think of one example where that's happened with Bale - and it's staggering that of the 30 friendlies Giggs missed, he went on to play for Man U a few days later after 17 of them. It happened with Ramsey against Panama but even then he'd played in a friendly for us just a few days previously. As I say, a very good article but can't believe how flawed their analysis is on the key conclusion comparing Giggs v Bale's record. I wonder if it's deliberate or just incompetent?
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 13:13:07 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 18, 2018 13:13:07 GMT
A good article on the whole, but the analysis comparing bale and giggs is majorly flawed. They come to the conclusion that Giggs' friendly record is comparable to Bale's because only 20.05% of Bale's appearances have been in friendlies, compared to the 15.6% of Giggs'. However, that doesn't take into account the fact that we play far less friendlies now than we did back then so the proportion of a current player's friendly appearances will be much lower than it was back then. It's completely the wrong way of looking at it. What they should do is compare Bale and Giggs in the other bits of analysis they've done i.e. the proportion of friendly games available to them that they've played in, and most importantly the proportion of friendly games they've missed but gone on to play for their clubs a few days later. I literally cannot think of one example where that's happened with Bale - and it's staggering that of the 30 friendlies Giggs missed, he went on to play for Man U a few days later after 17 of them. It happened with Ramsey against Panama but even then he'd played in a friendly for us just a few days previously. As I say, a very good article but can't believe how flawed their analysis is on the key conclusion comparing Giggs v Bale's record. I wonder if it's deliberate or just incompetent? Bale did miss the last 2 friendlies (injured). Didn’t he also miss the friendlies against NI, Ukraine and Sweden pre-Euro 16? There will be times these major players may miss a friendly here and there and it can be useful for us to see how we cope without them as long as this is communicated clearly as it was with Ramsey and not as was the case with Giggs.
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 13:21:52 GMT
Post by georgetm1 on Jan 18, 2018 13:21:52 GMT
Bale came on against Sweden.
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 13:23:36 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 18, 2018 13:23:36 GMT
And of course we may never know if the same number of friendlies were available would Bale play? Another aspect which we will never know is how often managers requested his attendence and didn't argue it, which would have to include what they said publically and what actually happened? When did the rule on countries been able to demand someone turn up to be assessed? So many questions, so little relevance.....😀😁
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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 20:17:15 GMT
Post by iot on Jan 18, 2018 20:17:15 GMT
And of course we may never know if the same number of friendlies were available would Bale play? Another aspect which we will never know is how often managers requested his attendence and didn't argue it, which would have to include what they said publically and what actually happened? When did the rule on countries been able to demand someone turn up to be assessed? So many questions, so little relevance.....😀😁 Many feel like Bale has been far more committed to Wales than Giggs was and that's been an important factor in our success in recent years. Who knows, if Giggs was as committed it might have helped us develop a better culture back in his day akin to the current group who look forward to meeting up with each other. Therefore, comparing Giggs and Bale's records is completely valid, but that article failed to do it in a logical way. As I say, comparing the proportion of friendlies Wales have played during their respective careers that they've actually played in would be the way to do it. I would be very surprised if Bale wouldn't come out far and above Giggs on that measure. Now that Giggs has been appointed manager, I'm happy to give him a go. But all the smug, Giggs apologists are starting to get on my nerves.
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