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Post by flynnfan on Jul 25, 2010 16:39:56 GMT
www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/football-news/2010/07/25/brendan-rodgers-tips-joe-allen-for-big-time-91466-26924692/It says something about him missing the first couple of weeks of the new season, which I was pleased to hear because I thought he'd be out a lot longer. And he should be able to hit the ground running considering he has a shoulder injury and has still been able to take part in a lot of the pre season training. I really think that with Rambo and Collison out Allen could make a big difference to the balance of our midfeld. If he is back, I'd like to see a team against Montenegro something like this; 4-3-2-1/4-5-1 ......................Hennessey..... Ricketts.......Williams....Collins......Gunter.... Davies(or Edwards)...Allen....Ledley Bellamy...........................................Bale ...................Vokes(or Morison)
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Post by Tim P on Jul 25, 2010 17:03:00 GMT
brendan rogers, providing he is given time, should be good for us - he likes youth, and he likes to play good footie. on this basis, expect to see the likes of allen and jazzy jazz jazzman getting plenty of game time for the jacks, and, presumably, us as a result.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2010 23:05:46 GMT
It says it all about where we are at right now when we rely on a teenager who hasnt played any senior international football to come straight in and be the main man in our first qualifier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2010 23:33:26 GMT
It says it all about where we are at right now when we rely on a teenager who hasnt played any senior international football to come straight in and be the main man in our first qualifier. Allen is 20 with 2 international caps. It does no harm to check your facts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 0:00:50 GMT
It says it all about where we are at right now when we rely on a teenager who hasnt played any senior international football to come straight in and be the main man in our first qualifier. Allen is 20 with 2 international caps. It does no harm to check your facts. Yes, 20 with 2 caps- I could not have got it more wrong. I do apologise. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 0:53:23 GMT
Well it's among the lesser of your faults but it's a start.
I'm sure more elaborate chicken little proclomations will entertain us between now and the qualifying fixtures. As long as everyone is aware it is definitely ALL because of Tosh if we lose, and nothing to do with him if we win- or, the wins should be far greater or are lucky/easy.
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 26, 2010 9:19:59 GMT
RD- you're from Bristol aren't you? Why don't you support England then? You obviously have nothing positive to say about Welsh football whatsoever, so I'm just wondering why you bother? Allen simply being picked for the team doesn't mean he has to be the 'main man', as you put it. I don't think anyone should be the 'main man', it's all about the team performing well as a team. Have you ever seen Allen play? He ususally plays in the centre of a midfield 3 for Swansea where he has an excellent first touch, great range of passing, rarely gets beaten in a tackle, positions himself intelligently when the opposition have the ball, but also gets forward where he has a decent shot from long range. He looks to me like a proper international footballer. And if you're good enough, you're old enough.
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Post by walrus on Jul 26, 2010 10:59:57 GMT
On a slightly different note. Does anyone on here rate Sean Mc Donald as a future prospect. Seemed to have done well at Yeovil last year.
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Post by llannerch on Jul 26, 2010 12:26:48 GMT
It says it all about where we are at right now when we rely on a teenager who hasnt played any senior international football to come straight in and be the main man in our first qualifier. Allen is 20 with 2 international caps. It does no harm to check your facts. Or a grand total of 43 minutes of international football |
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Post by cilmeri on Jul 26, 2010 12:41:00 GMT
I've not really agreed with RD / Storm in the past, but he's spot on. If we're plumping our qualifying hopes on Joe Allen it's a sorry sight. He may develop into a cracking player, but he's still at Swansea, barely played for us at international level and hasn't really been ripping the rumour mill apart with tales of any prem team after him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 13:58:12 GMT
RD- you're from Bristol aren't you? Why don't you support England then? You obviously have nothing positive to say about Welsh football whatsoever, so I'm just wondering why you bother? Allen simply being picked for the team doesn't mean he has to be the 'main man', as you put it. I don't think anyone should be the 'main man', it's all about the team performing well as a team. Have you ever seen Allen play? He ususally plays in the centre of a midfield 3 for Swansea where he has an excellent first touch, great range of passing, rarely gets beaten in a tackle, positions himself intelligently when the opposition have the ball, but also gets forward where he has a decent shot from long range. He looks to me like a proper international footballer. And if you're good enough, you're old enough. This is nothing to how I was on the DS board! I could ask why you are so positive- but I dont because everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has a different outlook because of that opinion. Its what makes a forum more interesting to read. At the moment there isnt a lot to be positive about in Welsh football- we are going through a drawn out rebuilding process and as such there is a lot of talk of potential but thats all it is. Talk. Until its backed up with cold, hard results on the pitch then my opinion will continue to be on the slightly dour side. Sorry if that offends your optimistic sensibilities. As I said, I have toned it right down since the DS days as there is no point getting worked up about it anymore, but that doesnt mean Im going to start trying to be positive just for the sake of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 14:04:00 GMT
I've not really agreed with RD / Storm in the past, but he's spot on. If we're plumping our qualifying hopes on Joe Allen it's a sorry sight. He may develop into a cracking player, but he's still at Swansea, barely played for us at international level and hasn't really been ripping the rumour mill apart with tales of any prem team after him. There is no doubt that he will turn into a very good player. But now is not really the right time to go throwing him into centre midfield and saying "go on son, show us what you can do" against a side like Montenegro. And that is a damn good point about our young 'uns. For all the potential that they have, it is noticeable that with this ruling about to come in that will mean premier clubs needing at least 8 homegrown players nobody is scrambling for welsh players. Liverpool have just bought a Scot and an English lad to address this problem, why arent they looking at welsh players? Why is nobody taking Ledley when hes available on a free? Or going after Church or Gunter? Are they as good as we think they are? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 14:24:39 GMT
I've not really agreed with RD / Storm in the past, but he's spot on. If we're plumping our qualifying hopes on Joe Allen it's a sorry sight. He may develop into a cracking player, but he's still at Swansea, barely played for us at international level and hasn't really been ripping the rumour mill apart with tales of any prem team after him. There is no doubt that he will turn into a very good player. But now is not really the right time to go throwing him into centre midfield and saying "go on son, show us what you can do" against a side like Montenegro. And that is a damn good point about our young 'uns. For all the potential that they have, it is noticeable that with this ruling about to come in that will mean premier clubs needing at least 8 homegrown players nobody is scrambling for welsh players. Liverpool have just bought a Scot and an English lad to address this problem, why arent they looking at welsh players? Why is nobody taking Ledley when hes available on a free? Or going after Church or Gunter? Are they as good as we think they are? If only there were a transfer market for fans. We could send you on a free to support England- we'd even throw in your magic radio for nothing. We may have to take James Corden in return- but that's a price I'd be willing to pay. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 14:27:27 GMT
There is no doubt that he will turn into a very good player. But now is not really the right time to go throwing him into centre midfield and saying "go on son, show us what you can do" against a side like Montenegro. And that is a damn good point about our young 'uns. For all the potential that they have, it is noticeable that with this ruling about to come in that will mean premier clubs needing at least 8 homegrown players nobody is scrambling for welsh players. Liverpool have just bought a Scot and an English lad to address this problem, why arent they looking at welsh players? Why is nobody taking Ledley when hes available on a free? Or going after Church or Gunter? Are they as good as we think they are? If only there were a transfer market for fans. We could send you on a free to support England- we'd even throw in your magic radio for nothing. We may have to take James Corden in return- but that's a price I'd be willing to pay. Careful William, your claws are showing ;D Care to put aside the bitchiness and address the points raised? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 14:42:24 GMT
If only there were a transfer market for fans. We could send you on a free to support England- we'd even throw in your magic radio for nothing. We may have to take James Corden in return- but that's a price I'd be willing to pay. Careful William, your claws are showing ;D Care to put aside the bitchiness and address the points raised? There was a point? Well, much as I'd like to plunge into the soup of another of your Eeyore soliloquys, I shall regrettably have to leave that to hardier souls than myself. -On an aside- are you going to be pissing on the proverbial chips of any thread that doesn't lament our inevitable doom? Or were you not satisfied with all but smothering the life out of the DS messageboard with your unremitting miserablism? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 15:08:30 GMT
Careful William, your claws are showing ;D Care to put aside the bitchiness and address the points raised? There was a point? Yes there was a point, why dont you give your monocle a clean and go and have another look. Theres a good chap. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 19:00:49 GMT
Yes there was a point, why dont you give your monocle a clean and go and have another look. Theres a good chap. Unless the point was to test credulity and my patience then I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken. Perhaps you should re-read it. I don't see why the rest of us should have to suffer. |
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 26, 2010 19:44:46 GMT
OK RD, who SHOULD play in central midfield against Montenegro? Ramsey and Collison are injured. I wish they weren't but they are.
Brian Stock is OK, but I have to say I don't share the love for him that many on this board have. He's won exactly the same number of caps as Allen so its not like he's got a great deal more big game experience. He's spent his club career at Bouemouth, failing to get in the team at Preston and now in his mid to late 20s has finally come good at ..er.. Doncaster Rovers. He also has a persistant back problem that causes him to miss lots of games- I really don't think we should be expecting too much of him.
I haven't said Allen should be the main man or anything like that (read my posts back if you can be bothered) I'm just advocating that we set up like his club team Swansea do (so he'd be comfortable in the position, playing just in front of his club mate Ashley Williams) in midfield along side the likes of Davies and Ledley (over 90 caps between those 2 if you're looking for experince) , get our most dangerous players (Bale and Bellamy) attacking the opposition down the flanks, keep things solid in the centre... Just looking for ways that we might deal with the loss of Rambo and Collison.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 20:48:42 GMT
OK RD, who SHOULD play in central midfield against Montenegro? Ramsey and Collison are injured. I wish they weren't but they are. Brian Stock is OK, but I have to say I don't share the love for him that many on this board have. He's won exactly the same number of caps as Allen so its not like he's got a great deal more big game experience. He's spent his club career at Bouemouth, failing to get in the team at Preston and now in his mid to late 20s has finally come good at ..er.. Doncaster Rovers. He also has a persistant back problem that causes him to miss lots of games- I really don't think we should be expecting too much of him. I haven't said Allen should be the main man or anything like that (read my posts back if you can be bothered) I'm just advocating that we set up like his club team Swansea do (so he'd be comfortable in the position, playing just in front of his club mate Ashley Williams) in midfield along side the likes of Davies and Ledley (over 90 caps between those 2 if you're looking for experince) , get our most dangerous players (Bale and Bellamy) attacking the opposition down the flanks, keep things solid in the centre... Just looking for ways that we might deal with the loss of Rambo and Collison. Sensible post - Stock not the answer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 20:54:19 GMT
OK RD, who SHOULD play in central midfield against Montenegro? Ramsey and Collison are injured. I wish they weren't but they are. Brian Stock is OK, but I have to say I don't share the love for him that many on this board have. He's won exactly the same number of caps as Allen so its not like he's got a great deal more big game experience. He's spent his club career at Bouemouth, failing to get in the team at Preston and now in his mid to late 20s has finally come good at ..er.. Doncaster Rovers. He also has a persistant back problem that causes him to miss lots of games- I really don't think we should be expecting too much of him. I haven't said Allen should be the main man or anything like that (read my posts back if you can be bothered) I'm just advocating that we set up like his club team Swansea do (so he'd be comfortable in the position, playing just in front of his club mate Ashley Williams) in midfield along side the likes of Davies and Ledley (over 90 caps between those 2 if you're looking for experince) , get our most dangerous players (Bale and Bellamy) attacking the opposition down the flanks, keep things solid in the centre... Just looking for ways that we might deal with the loss of Rambo and Collison. I think you may have taken the gist of my original post wrong- I think he would be a good option in midfield, but the way you phrased it seemed like its a case of just putting him in there whilst we wait with our arms crossed for him to do the business! Taking that attitude would put a lot of pressure on him at an early age when he has little to no experience. We are already heavily reliant on Ramsey and he is still very young to be carrying those sorts of expectations. I repeat that I think he should play some part- but we shouldnt expect too much. I think Stock has to be a shoe-in against Montenegro, he can keep possession reasonably well and I could see him having the ability to unlock their defence. We have very little creativity available to us in midfield for that match. And to be fair to Stock, for all his back problems he turned up for Croatia away when nobody else could be bothered so he (and the rest of that squad) have certainly all shown enough commitment to earn places in the Montenegran squad imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 23:01:30 GMT
It would do the quality of debate on this board a great deal of good if the word "experience" were banned.
And, just as a case in point, Thomas Mueller had 4 caps for Germany when he went to the World Cup. I appreciate they didn't play anyone as good as Montenegro. But since ability seems to be the last, rather than the first, consideration for many on this board when it comes to player selection, thought it was worth pointing out.
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Post by ktj on Jul 27, 2010 8:06:50 GMT
And, just as a case in point, Thomas Mueller had 4 caps for Germany when he went to the World Cup. During the 2009–10 season, Mueller played almost every game for Bayern Munich as the club won the league and cup double. Hardly comparable to Allen. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 9:35:04 GMT
And, just as a case in point, Thomas Mueller had 4 caps for Germany when he went to the World Cup. During the 2009–10 season, Mueller played almost every game for Bayern Munich as the club won the league and cup double. Hardly comparable to Allen. Wales are hardly comparable to Germany in that sort of literalist interpretation. Players and circumstances must be considered at our relative levels. And playing regularly for a higher end Championship club- injury permitting- to an excellent standard is clearly a reasonable basis for selection in a qualification match against the lowest seed team in our group, and it is not unreasonable to suggest that for an infinitely larger and more successful nation to rely upon a 20 year old with four caps at a World Cup finals against infinitely more elevated opponents would have raised similair- if not identical- objections regarding "experience." Or maybe I'm wrong- I think this blind, craven, reactionary attitude towards youth is a very British phenomenon and wouldn't have been so pronounced in Germany. |
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Post by cilmeri on Jul 27, 2010 11:07:43 GMT
Players and circumstances must be considered at our relative levels. And playing regularly for a higher end Championship club- injury permitting- to an excellent standard is clearly a reasonable basis for selection in a qualification match against the lowest seed team in our group Couldn't agree more. Stock it is then  |
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Post by cilmeri on Jul 27, 2010 11:11:39 GMT
The way I see it Stock has been playing at the same or higher level than Allen over the last couple of years, and when he played against Russia he was very impressive I thought, although faded away as the game went on. I think we'd have to start with him, then bring Allen on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 11:18:27 GMT
Players and circumstances must be considered at our relative levels. And playing regularly for a higher end Championship club- injury permitting- to an excellent standard is clearly a reasonable basis for selection in a qualification match against the lowest seed team in our group Couldn't agree more. Stock it is then I see a debate is about to arise about what constitutes an "excellent standard." And "the way I see it" having achieved an adequate standard for Doncaster in your late 20s means your selection will only ever be a last resort- not a first choice. Ideally, Stock should never play for Wales again. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 12:31:25 GMT
Couldn't agree more. Stock it is then I see a debate is about to arise about what constitutes an "excellent standard." And "the way I see it" having achieved an adequate standard for Doncaster in your late 20s means your selection will only ever be a last resort- not a first choice. Ideally, Stock should never play for Wales again. I think you are far too dismissive of Doncaster in your rush to vaunt Swansea. Sean O'Driscoll is one of the hottest properties in the Championship due to the excellent job he has done on a limited budget there. According to many observers they play very good football and Stock was the heartbeat of the side until he had his back injury. Looking at where both sides finished in the table its ridiculous to talk of Swansea being a "higher end championship club" whilst sneering at Doncaster for being......well.....Doncaster. If we are going to talk about who can do what on the pitch then given his performance against Russia, which for a debut and considering the opposition was excellent. Bearing in mind the likes of Davies havent given a performance like that for ages. So using your logic what applies to Allen could easily apply to Stock as well, certainly when it comes to playing Montenegro. If I had my way half our squad would never play for Wales again but that is a laughable argument as we do not have the option to pick and choose players, especially as our players prefer to be the ones choosing carefully when they play. |
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 27, 2010 16:23:46 GMT
If you can be bothered to read my posts back RD, you'll see that at no point did I say Joe Allen should be picked and then we should all just fold our arms and wait for him to do the business. Or anything like that in fact. I just think he's a much better player than Brian Stock.
But it isn't just me, Flynn, Ferrie Bodde and his all of his club managers who rate Allen so highly. Kevin Nolan and Robbie Savage both named him in their top 5 players in the football league. I think only the most one eyed Doncaster fan would say the same thing about Stock.
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Post by walrus on Jul 27, 2010 21:16:21 GMT
Ha ha. almost shakespearien that william. Leave Storm alone though. His suffering is palpable it gives a humanity to the board. We are all suffering watching wales lamentable woes pile up but when the blue skies of victory and qualification open up it will be a glorious day and i expect Storm to be dancing morrissey style with a bunch of daffodils.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 21:19:39 GMT
Ha ha. almost shakespearien that william. Leave Storm alone though. His suffering is palpable it gives a humanity to the board. We are all suffering watching wales lamentable woes pile up but when the blue skies of victory and qualification open up it will be a glorious day and i expect Storm to be dancing morrissey style with a bunch of daffodils. This made me chuckle. |
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