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Post by welshrover on Oct 20, 2022 21:15:23 GMT
Tom Lockyer
Tom Lawrence
Tom Bradshaw
Tom King
Tom Lowery
Tom The Postman
Definitely a pattern here!
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Post by iot on Oct 20, 2022 21:22:42 GMT
I know your talking about Tom Lawrence here but it has reminded me of James Lawrence. Interesting that Page has been allowed to select other players ahead of him without any accusations of rifts or grudges. Is it because he wasn’t that popular when he was selected? Do we only spread argument rumours for players we like ? Tom King is another, If Adam Davies is fit for the World Cup then King will be dropped and it is almost certain that the social media rumour mongerers won’t bat an eyelid and accept it is simply part of the selection process. Us Wales fans are a strange lot, haha. It might be different for others but I am not particularly a member of any player’s fan club unless I feel they have qualities that other players lack (hence my disappointment that Bradshaw never got a good run because as I explained in the Bradshaw thread I feel the quality of his finishing is something missing from the strikers regularly selected over the last few years). So as such Lawrence and Lockyer are here nor there to me in terms of their qualities. I do however believe in the squad being a meritocracy and if you have a player that is playing for a champions league team then it’s only logical that questions should be asked about why they don’t seem to be being given an opportunity. Same with Lockyer to a lesser extent: playing well for a team at the top end of the championship but unlikely to be called up (at least if you draw conclusions from players Page has called up previously). Wrt James Lawrence I had completely forgotten he existed, wouldn’t even know what club he plays for. I guess he is another that has maybe had their chance under Page and won’t be seen again. Probably behind Lockyer in the pecking order. However my attitude would be consistent in that if he were to suddenly end up playing for a CL side then he would deserve a call up and a chance to see how well the “latest iteration” of James Lawrence fits into the squad. As we have seen though that isn’t necessarily how it works with Page and that bothers me as it potentially creates needless problems. The point about squad harmony is always made and I understand to a certain extent Page’s loyalty (I dislike the idea of players who didn’t qualify just breezing in to a finals squad at the expense of those who did) but the flip side is that that limits merit and it’s especially pertinent now where plenty of players seem to be in indifferent form on the eve of the World Cup but those players are guaranteed to travel anyway pretty much. If as per the other thread (and it’s a massive if!) Hughes was being watched by Page that for me would show how ridiculous loyalty can be to end up throwing in an untested player to a World Cup when there was plenty of opportunity to do so before but Page’s loyalty (reluctance to cap older players?) got in the way. With respect, saying that you believe in the squad being a meritocracy, from which I assume you mean picking the best / most in-form players, is a slightly simplistic way of looking at it. It's what most fans call for. England has it much worse than us as they probably have around 200 players playing at a decent level, so every time Southgate announces his squads there are huge outcries over why in-from premier league players aren't selected over the squad regulars. But if you think about what that would mean in practice, that every time a player has a dip in form they get dropped for the flavour of the month, there would be constant chopping and changing from squad to squad. There would be no consistency or cohesion, and the squad would be unsettled. I've felt that English managers in the past have been guilty of being too broad in their squad selection, and feel that Southgate, much as he's lambasted for it, has done really well to get some consistency in selection, which is why there's such a stark difference between the calm, relaxed and joyful vibes you got from the squad in Euro 2020 vs the really tense and cagey one that they had in Euro 2016. I go on about England because it's much easier to illustrate the point with them. It's different of course with us because the playing pool is much smaller, but the principle's the same. So when you talk about meritocracy, it really isn't as simple as that. There are other factors at play. |
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Post by dai on Oct 20, 2022 21:47:24 GMT
Tom Lockyer Tom Lawrence Tom Bradshaw Tom King Tom Lowery Tom The Postman Definitely a pattern here! I did say!  |
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Post by adecolley on Oct 21, 2022 13:12:06 GMT
I've been watching Luton on and off since 1985 and he's definitely not the best defender they've ever had - that's Mal Donagh, still the best defender I've ever seen. Even better than Gunter.
But they do seem to play better when he's in the team. Went to the 3-3 v Huddersfield this month and he didn't have massive amount to do. But he seems quicker than he was and he's a better current option than Cabango. Agree with insertname that Cabango is being selected with the next 2 or 3 tournaments in mind.
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Post by se7exile on Nov 8, 2022 1:01:35 GMT
Lots of people bigging up Tom Lockyer as an outsider to make the squad. Also cases being made for Andrew Hughes and Morgan Fox while Ben Cabango is in most people’s squad. I checked out their ratings on WhoScored.com and Tom Lockyer is easily the best of the lot He is absolutely flying and is our highest rated defender. In the championship he is 7th highest rated of all players and the 2nd highest rated defender after Ahmedhodvic. He is rated 1st for blocks, 2nd for clearances and 10th for interceptions out of over 300 players. On Saturday we scored 9.6 which is pretty unheard of for a defender.
Checked a few others for comparison:
Tom Lockyer 7th in Championship. Rated 7.25
Andrew Hughes. 64th in Championship. Rated 6.88
Morgan Fox. 110th in Championship. Rated 6.75
Ben Cabango. 176th in Championship. Rated 6.63
RND. 196th in Championship. Rated 6.60
Connor Roberts 229th in Championship. Rated 6.53
Chris Gunter. 300th in League 2.
If there is a spare slot in the back line it has to be Lockyer that gets it.
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Post by eppingblue1 on Nov 8, 2022 8:54:48 GMT
I'm not a great fan of these sort of stats but he has to be in the squad.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 8, 2022 12:08:07 GMT
It's bizarre how Lockyer's not been involved after looking solid previously
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Post by cadno on Feb 12, 2023 11:04:06 GMT
He’s having a great season, Luton fans raving about him online. He was in ‘WhoScored’ Championship team of the season at the half way point the other day.
Time for a call up again and he should probably start given how shaky we’ve looked without Ampadu at the back, and now Joe Allen’s retired from intl duty early we probs need ampadu in midfield. Not ideal but it is what it is.
LutonTownExile:
“Tom Lockyer was outstanding today. Won every single one on one easily. Different class defensively.”
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Post by iot on Feb 12, 2023 13:11:46 GMT
He was in the World Cup squad and I'd expect him to keep his place.
He's a fairly old-school defender, so with Ampadu in midfield I would be slightly concerned about the ball-playing ability from the back given it's not a strong point for Rodon as well. Could always just turn into a route 1 side I suppose!
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Post by dai on Feb 12, 2023 13:14:42 GMT
He was only in the squad because RND had to pull out, and he hadn't been in the squad for quite a few games prior to that.
I always found it odd that Cabango was being favoured over a top performing ch'ship defender. Maybe Lockyer is a bit too old?
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Post by surge on Feb 12, 2023 13:32:07 GMT
Think his chances of call-up depend greatly on what formation Page wants going forward and how concerned Page is about lot of the leadership retiring.
From what we've seen so far Lockyer is a very, very good Championship defender and would make decent shout at central CB in 3 CB system, while also being strong character for dressing room.
If we're switching to 4 defenders (not sure how likely this is: Ben Davies our best player + works best as LCB versus need for extra bodies in midfield to contest this part of the pitch?), then I can't see Lockyer getting a call due to perceived weakness in build-up of play and greater depth of talent at RCB.
Think he's done okay when called up before and don't have that worry that international football is too much for him. More and more players doing well for their league clubs is always a positive to push each other on.
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Post by welwyn on Feb 12, 2023 14:48:37 GMT
Lockyer is almost certainly favourite to win our Player of the Season
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Post by cadno on Feb 12, 2023 16:27:39 GMT
I thought when seeing him play for Wales he was really good on the ball, composed like Chester… maybe my memory isn’t quite right tho, it was a while ago, and our line ups have jumbled around quite a lot in recent years 😂
If he’s more old school then I agree we need a calming influence in there, Ampadu fits the bill, but then I’m not sure who plays in midfield with Rambo and Morrell. Maybe Matt Smith can step his game up
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Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 12, 2023 18:16:47 GMT
Agree with the previous posts in that he'd be great in the middle of a back 3, but realistically Rodon is ahead of him there. Can't see him starting in a back 4
I think he deserves a squad place but imo our best back 3 is Mepham-Rodon-Davies and our best back 4 is Neco-Mepham-Rodon-Davies
Cabango, Lockyer and Poole would be my other 3 defenders
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Post by fiveattheback on Feb 12, 2023 18:24:08 GMT
Agree with the previous posts in that he'd be great in the middle of a back 3, but realistically Rodon is ahead of him there. Can't see him starting in a back 4 I think he deserves a squad place but imo our best back 3 is Mepham-Rodon-Davies and our best back 4 is Neco-Mepham-Rodon-Davies Cabango, Lockyer and Poole would be my other 3 defenders No Norrington-Davies? |
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Post by welwyn on Feb 12, 2023 18:41:27 GMT
I'd have Lockyer over Mepham right now. He was in the World Cup squad and I'd expect him to keep his place. He's a fairly old-school defender, so with Ampadu in midfield I would be slightly concerned about the ball-playing ability from the back given it's not a strong point for Rodon as well. Could always just turn into a route 1 side I suppose! I thought when seeing him play for Wales he was really good on the ball, composed like Chester… maybe my memory isn’t quite right tho, it was a while ago, and our line ups have jumbled around quite a lot in recent years 😂 Certainly looks a lot more composed on the ball now Edwards is in charge. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 12, 2023 18:51:56 GMT
Agree with the previous posts in that he'd be great in the middle of a back 3, but realistically Rodon is ahead of him there. Can't see him starting in a back 4 I think he deserves a squad place but imo our best back 3 is Mepham-Rodon-Davies and our best back 4 is Neco-Mepham-Rodon-Davies Cabango, Lockyer and Poole would be my other 3 defenders No Norrington-Davies? RND starts for me if we're playing a back 5, and would replace Davies as a LCB in a starting berth if Davies were injured. Not in a back 4 for me, although I feel he'd be a great deputy there |
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Post by cadno on Feb 12, 2023 20:31:07 GMT
I don’t trust Rodon much in the middle of a 3, but I might be being a bit harsh.
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Post by welwyn on Feb 17, 2023 14:05:45 GMT
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Post by jimexotic on Feb 17, 2023 19:05:51 GMT
Good stuff, enjoyed that. I have to say that I'd have Mepham in over Lockyer but you make a very good argument for him starting. |
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Post by welwyn on Feb 18, 2023 17:04:31 GMT
Sent off for two bookings. Both for arguing with the ref, either side of the same penalty incident!!
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Post by fiveattheback on Apr 7, 2023 14:04:30 GMT
Man of the match in a 0-0 draw between Millwall and Luton, both seemingly set for the playoffs
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Post by jimexotic on Apr 7, 2023 14:13:19 GMT
I really hope Luton go up, football really needs a story like that
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Post by cadno on Apr 7, 2023 14:14:47 GMT
Arguably should be starting ahead of Rodon
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Post by welwyn on Apr 8, 2023 7:28:06 GMT
Arguably should be starting ahead of Rodon Or Mepham |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 8, 2023 7:54:10 GMT
If he's in the Prem next season and Mepham/Rodon land at Championship level I think neither one could have complaints if Lockyer usurped them into the starting XI
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Post by jimexotic on Apr 8, 2023 10:27:53 GMT
If he's in the Prem next season and Mepham/Rodon land at Championship level I think neither one could have complaints if Lockyer usurped them into the starting XI Especially with Lockyer playing every week. He's probably started more games than those two combined over the last two or three years. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Apr 23, 2023 21:24:43 GMT
In the Championship team of the year
I know he won't, but there's certainly an argument for starting Lockyer over Rodon in the next round of games, when's the last time Rodon had a run of games?
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Apr 24, 2023 8:31:55 GMT
Playing again tonight in an upper part of the table Championship clash for Luton against Middlesborough.
RP must at least reflect on whether TL deserves to start one of the two games in June.
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Post by dai on Apr 24, 2023 9:05:37 GMT
Great news for Tom.
As for replacing Rodon? Page has his faves. Despite playing well and more regularly than any of the other CB's at the time, Tom wasn't even going to the WC until injuries struck. That shows you where he stands with Page.
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