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Post by jbt95 on May 17, 2023 9:09:07 GMT
I know I shouldn’t look at Facebook comments on Wales but someone has just said that Lockyer should be picked instead of Moore haha. To be fair, Tom is scoring more goals! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 17, 2023 11:07:50 GMT
Has to start ahead of Rodon in June. He’s earned it Still think Rodon will get the nod from Page especially after the last two results. Surely must start soon though. We could have a premier League captain on our hands soon. As much as Rodon clearly has more talent, Lockyer has consistently done the right things over the course of his career. He was willing to drop down to the National League to get minutes and establish himself. He's always moved to hard working smaller clubs, where he's established himself but maybe hasn't had the limelight or international recognition. And he's now reaching a point whereby he's surpassing Rodon, who has been inactive at club level for a few years If he's a Premier League captain after this playoff final we should be finding a way to get him in the team, and at the moment that should be at Rodon's expense. Page can't complain that our players aren't regulars for their clubs if he's passing up on regular players playing at the right level My bet is that Rodon will be in the Championship next season, and Lockyer could well be in the Premier League |
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Post by rushy on May 17, 2023 11:27:05 GMT
There is a strong point to be made for players who are playing regularly compared to those not getting a kick, match fitness and sharpness goes a long way in any game and could well be a factor when Page decides his team selection next month, although it might also tell who he favours overall between the two CB's.
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Post by fiveattheback on May 17, 2023 12:30:47 GMT
As Mepham has played regularly this season it would make no sense to drop him
Even if Page rates Rodon highly it goes against a lot of what he's said about picking regulars, Rodon's not played a league game since the start of February!
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Post by jimexotic on May 18, 2023 0:07:18 GMT
In terms of career trajectory, Lockyer's is in the ascendancy. I'm so pleased for him and Luton, this is one of footballs good stories.
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Post by welwyn on May 18, 2023 9:59:46 GMT
My biggest worry for the play-off final is Lock's getting sent-off for one of his off-the-ball bust ups that he instigates because VAR is in play. It's my same worry with the national team.
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Post by morg on May 19, 2023 7:17:36 GMT
My biggest worry for the play-off final is Lock's getting sent-off for one of his off-the-ball bust ups that he instigates because VAR is in play. It's my same worry with the national team. As in he normally gets away with them because no VAR in the championship? Hope he adapts quickly then! If Luton go up, how equipped do you think they'll be for life in the Premier? |
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Post by welwyn on May 19, 2023 8:00:14 GMT
My biggest worry for the play-off final is Lock's getting sent-off for one of his off-the-ball bust ups that he instigates because VAR is in play. It's my same worry with the national team. As in he normally gets away with them because no VAR in the championship? Hope he adapts quickly then! If Luton go up, how equipped do you think they'll be for life in the Premier? Yeah, albeit some of his antics work both ways. In the first leg, with VAR, he probably gets Joe Gelhardt sent off under the same principle. As well as an exceptional defender, he is an absolute spithouse. What do you mean by how equipped we are? In what way? On pitch? Off pitch? All relevant questions, just don't want to give an answer on the wrong thing. |
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Post by morg on May 19, 2023 10:22:03 GMT
As in he normally gets away with them because no VAR in the championship? Hope he adapts quickly then! If Luton go up, how equipped do you think they'll be for life in the Premier? Yeah, albeit some of his antics work both ways. In the first leg, with VAR, he probably gets Joe Gelhardt sent off under the same principle. As well as an exceptional defender, he is an absolute spithouse. What do you mean by how equipped we are? In what way? On pitch? Off pitch? All relevant questions, just don't want to give an answer on the wrong thing. All of the above I guess? Would you do a Brentford or would you have concerns that you'd come straight down? All asked with respect honestly! As for Lockyer, think Cymru could do with some controlled 'spithousery' at times. 'Nice' only gets you so far! |
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Post by iot on May 19, 2023 10:50:18 GMT
On balance, I would be in favour of starting with the same cb pairing we had last time. I'm not overly concerned about Rodon's lack of game time. He was basically in the same position in the last window. I don't think now's the time to mix it up in that area. The ordering of the fixtures also works in our favour, with one of the easier group opponents at home allowing Rodon to build up some sharpness before facing Turkey.
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Post by welwyn on May 19, 2023 10:52:10 GMT
All of the above I guess? Would you do a Brentford or would you have concerns that you'd come straight down? All asked with respect honestly! As for Lockyer, think Cymru could do with some controlled 'spithousery' at times. 'Nice' only gets you so far! Well, we'd definitely come back down. We would need to spend £8-10m to make the Kenny PL compliant. This is mainly due to media requirements, benches needing more plug points (data analysts laptops and the like), VAR Camera positions and apparently we need new floodlights. (Those plans are already with the council) The irony being all those are mainly things to improve things for armchair fans and not those actually there. In fact, that last one actually will create more even more view obstructing posts inside the ground!! I imagine the plan would be for us the split the £100-150m in this approximate way: £8-10m - Get Kenny ready for PL football £50-70m - Get's added to the £50m from the J10 land that was sold with planning permission (Originally that land should have generated £100m but a mixture of Covid/Brexit made the project much less valuable). This then gets used to build Power Court. £20-£40m - On paying promotion wage rises, new contracts and signing some additional players to hopefully avoid a Derby Co. 12pt season. The rest and Parachute payments would probably then be used to sustain a mid-table Championship budget afterwards. |
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Post by fiveattheback on May 19, 2023 11:31:57 GMT
On balance, I would be in favour of starting with the same cb pairing we had last time. I'm not overly concerned about Rodon's lack of game time. He was basically in the same position in the last window. I don't think now's the time to mix it up in that area. The ordering of the fixtures also works in our favour, with one of the easier group opponents at home allowing Rodon to build up some sharpness before facing Turkey. He did make that bizarre mistake for Croatia's goal, each time I watch it I have no idea what he's trying to do I think I'm in a different position on Rodon to the majority in that I don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, and he certainly isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Wales (imo). It also goes against the things Page was talking about after the World Cup regarding players needing to play games, if we start Lockyer then we could actually go into a game with a back 4 of regular starters, we've not done that for a while. I also don't think Lockyer's ever really let us down when he's played for us. I see a lot about Rodon's "higher ceiling" than Lockyer or Mepham, and that may well be true, but he'll be 26 in October and hasn't managed 100 league games, when are we going to see him reach this ceiling? The much maligned Mepham has broken the 100 mark and is even over 50 PL appearances despite a somewhat slow start to his career |
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Post by garynysmon on May 19, 2023 11:53:28 GMT
I think I'm in a different position on Rodon to the majority in that I don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, and he certainly isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Wales (imo). I think most Wales fans in general are a rather guilty of overhyping our players and then lashing out at management when the players don't reach our lofty expectations. For some it was an absolute outrage that Rodon wasn't starting for Spurs every week, but a string of managers were of the same opinion and is clearly also shared by Rennes' management. It was a top six team taking a punt on a young player which hasn't worked out. Its the same with Danny Ward, who hasn't exactly set the world on fire once he was actually given a first team run in the Premier League. We're just fortunate that we've had a good proportion of players that overperform while on international duty but can't sustain that week in week out. |
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Post by iot on May 19, 2023 12:43:05 GMT
On balance, I would be in favour of starting with the same cb pairing we had last time. I'm not overly concerned about Rodon's lack of game time. He was basically in the same position in the last window. I don't think now's the time to mix it up in that area. The ordering of the fixtures also works in our favour, with one of the easier group opponents at home allowing Rodon to build up some sharpness before facing Turkey. He did make that bizarre mistake for Croatia's goal, each time I watch it I have no idea what he's trying to do I think I'm in a different position on Rodon to the majority in that I don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, and he certainly isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Wales (imo). It also goes against the things Page was talking about after the World Cup regarding players needing to play games, if we start Lockyer then we could actually go into a game with a back 4 of regular starters, we've not done that for a while. I also don't think Lockyer's ever really let us down when he's played for us. I see a lot about Rodon's "higher ceiling" than Lockyer or Mepham, and that may well be true, but he'll be 26 in October and hasn't managed 100 league games, when are we going to see him reach this ceiling? The much maligned Mepham has broken the 100 mark and is even over 50 PL appearances despite a somewhat slow start to his career On the Croatia goal, if I remember correctly I think he was just beaten to the ball and badly caught out of position. He'd received a nudge so tried to force the ref's hand into awarding a free kick, but the ref just didn't buy it. On the broader point, I'm somewhere in between your position and the more widely held view among the fanbase. I initially thought he could play at a very high level, based on his dozen or so international games and the noises coming out of Swansea. I remember reading articles from more objective pundits / analysts who saw him as one of the next big things from the Championship - he was seen as one of the league's best defenders at the age of 22 and appeared to have that combination of old-school defending / physicality and more modern ball-playing ability. I don't think anyone were surprised when Spurs came in for him. However, it's been clear for a while that he's not at the level many people thought. The main issue since the Spurs move has been his lack of quality on the ball. Added to that, his poor positional play and decision-making has become more and more of an issue. He's even been badly bullied in a couple of Wales games now (Mepham got all the shit for what Embolo did to us in the Euros, but Rodon got arguably even more bullied by him). I still think much of that are things he can improve on and I suspect that he's had a bit of a hit to his confidence since the Spurs move which is playing a part in his performances. I do think he has more about him than our other defenders (and I do rate Mepham more than most), but that's no good if he doesn't show it. Re the wider point on Rodon and Ward, it's easy enough to have a go at Welsh fans after the event for 'over-hyping', but I don't quite agree. These are players where clubs were willing to invest ca. 12-15m in them and considered to have the potential to go beyond that. They've both shown at different points in their international careers that they can perform at a high level (Ward at the Euros, Rodon in his initial caps). Their poor club performances in recent seasons doesn't necessarily mean they're bad players. It might be to do with confidence or other factors. There are so many examples in football where players perform at a high level at one club, and then just can't repeat it at their next one or vice versa - where things just click. It's just never as simple as people make out. |
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Post by fiveattheback on May 19, 2023 14:54:13 GMT
He did make that bizarre mistake for Croatia's goal, each time I watch it I have no idea what he's trying to do I think I'm in a different position on Rodon to the majority in that I don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, and he certainly isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Wales (imo). It also goes against the things Page was talking about after the World Cup regarding players needing to play games, if we start Lockyer then we could actually go into a game with a back 4 of regular starters, we've not done that for a while. I also don't think Lockyer's ever really let us down when he's played for us. I see a lot about Rodon's "higher ceiling" than Lockyer or Mepham, and that may well be true, but he'll be 26 in October and hasn't managed 100 league games, when are we going to see him reach this ceiling? The much maligned Mepham has broken the 100 mark and is even over 50 PL appearances despite a somewhat slow start to his career On the Croatia goal, if I remember correctly I think he was just beaten to the ball and badly caught out of position. He'd received a nudge so tried to force the ref's hand into awarding a free kick, but the ref just didn't buy it. On the broader point, I'm somewhere in between your position and the more widely held view among the fanbase. I initially thought he could play at a very high level, based on his dozen or so international games and the noises coming out of Swansea. I remember reading articles from more objective pundits / analysts who saw him as one of the next big things from the Championship - he was seen as one of the league's best defenders at the age of 22 and appeared to have that combination of old-school defending / physicality and more modern ball-playing ability. I don't think anyone were surprised when Spurs came in for him. However, it's been clear for a while that he's not at the level many people thought. The main issue since the Spurs move has been his lack of quality on the ball. Added to that, his poor positional play and decision-making has become more and more of an issue. He's even been badly bullied in a couple of Wales games now (Mepham got all the shit for what Embolo did to us in the Euros, but Rodon got arguably even more bullied by him). I still think much of that are things he can improve on and I suspect that he's had a bit of a hit to his confidence since the Spurs move which is playing a part in his performances. I do think he has more about him than our other defenders (and I do rate Mepham more than most), but that's no good if he doesn't show it. Re the wider point on Rodon and Ward, it's easy enough to have a go at Welsh fans after the event for 'over-hyping', but I don't quite agree. These are players where clubs were willing to invest ca. 12-15m in them and considered to have the potential to go beyond that. They've both shown at different points in their international careers that they can perform at a high level (Ward at the Euros, Rodon in his initial caps). Their poor club performances in recent seasons doesn't necessarily mean they're bad players. It might be to do with confidence or other factors. There are so many examples in football where players perform at a high level at one club, and then just can't repeat it at their next one or vice versa - where things just click. It's just never as simple as people make out. I think a lot of that's fair and I agree on what you say regarding the "overhyping" I've watched the Croatia goal back again and there's very little in it, it strikes me as the kind of thing that may get given as a foul in u23 games, but not a chance in senior matches and that's where Rodon's lack of games really shows. I think you see it a lot with younger defenders (Mepham in particular was guilty of this early in his career) that they expect free kicks to be given for light contact as they were at age group level, but no way are you getting that free kick in a senior international. Rodon is 6ft 4, he shouldn't be getting done like that in the air or looking for free kicks, you should be expecting contact and focused on winning the header. I rate Mepham and think he gets a raw deal from (some) Wales fans, to be honest of the two I think he's been the better player for us over the past 3 years or so but it feels like people have it in their minds that he's suspect as he had some dodgy moments early on |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on May 19, 2023 15:09:08 GMT
So... after the Rodon and Mepham dialogue, where does that leave Lockyer? Will he be in the team on 16 June, or not? Does it depend on how he shapes up in the Championship play-of final on 27 May? Surely a good performance (and maybe another goal!) in that game will make it hard to exclude him.
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Post by rushy on May 19, 2023 20:26:45 GMT
The Rodon situation makes you wonder what has happened to his career as it has clearly stumbled, the Rennes loan was going ok but seemed to turn sour later and I doubt he has a future back at Spurs , so a fresh start is his only option with regular games and trying to regain the form that got him his big club transfer.
Along with James , Ward and maybe Moore , they require to be at clubs where they are first choice which means decisions need to be made this summer.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on May 19, 2023 21:28:43 GMT
It's Rodon out, then, and Lockyer in against Armenia, in your book?
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 20, 2023 7:12:43 GMT
It's Rodon out, then, and Lockyer in against Armenia, in your book? For me yes, regular players at a good level from now on. Rodon is a decent player but not regular enough. Lockyer in the form of his life and potentially a top flight regular next season. Too good of an opportunity to pass up to make the change |
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 20, 2023 7:16:13 GMT
I think I'm in a different position on Rodon to the majority in that I don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, and he certainly isn't good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Wales (imo). I think most Wales fans in general are a rather guilty of overhyping our players and then lashing out at management when the players don't reach our lofty expectations. For some it was an absolute outrage that Rodon wasn't starting for Spurs every week, but a string of managers were of the same opinion and is clearly also shared by Rennes' management. It was a top six team taking a punt on a young player which hasn't worked out. Its the same with Danny Ward, who hasn't exactly set the world on fire once he was actually given a first team run in the Premier League. We're just fortunate that we've had a good proportion of players that overperform while on international duty but can't sustain that week in week out. My frustration with Ward not playing all those years was not that I thought he was better than Schmeichel. My whole thing was that I thought it would hinder his development with no assurances he would be Leicester no.1 after Schmeichel left Then when he got the spot and started to do well pre-WC it looked to have worked out. Then when his performance dipped again and he was taken out for Iversen, Rodgers confirmed my fear. He said that the reason Iversen would be favoured moving forward is that he's had more football over the last 4 years, so he's more ready for regular football Long story short, sitting on the bench has hurt him, now he needs to drop down a level. If he does get regular Champ football I think he'll be a great no.1 for us for the next 5 years |
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Post by se7exile on May 20, 2023 10:15:01 GMT
It's Rodon out, then, and Lockyer in against Armenia, in your book? I am amazed that there is even a debate. Over the last few months Lockyer has been sensational. 21 clean sheets and captain of the team that finished third in the Championship, highest rated defender in the official ratings, in the Championship team of the year, swept the board at the Luton awards, Sky man of the match in the last three Sky games and scored 3 in the last 4 games including the goal that takes Luton to the play-off final. In the meantime Rodon has just been pulling the splinters out of his backside from hours sitting on the bench. Rodon is 3 inches taller and has better tattoos. Lockyer is better in every other way. |
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Post by rushy on May 20, 2023 13:33:26 GMT
It's Rodon out, then, and Lockyer in against Armenia, in your book? The point being we have a player in the form of his life and a supposedly better quality player getting no game time, with the manager who has to decide who starts, but let's be honest we know who Page favours no matter what the situation, so we'll see . |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on May 21, 2023 7:47:05 GMT
Agree about Page's conservatism and loyalty towards previous favourites. However, surely this time round he must grasp the nettle and pick TL ahead of JR.
Squad announcement - not team selection v Armenia(!) - is to be made at Llandovery, at the Urdd Eisteddfod, on 30 May 2023.
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Post by morg on May 21, 2023 9:07:40 GMT
Squad announcement - not team selection v Armenia(!) - is to be made at Llandovery, at the Urdd Eisteddfod, on 30 May 2023. Sword held over Page's head as he announces squad accompanied by a shout of 'A oes heddwch'? I like it. Could catch on.... England will be doing it next. They usually copy us.. (Cf zombie nation, love train at corners and bucket hats). |
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 21, 2023 10:07:00 GMT
Squad announcement - not team selection v Armenia(!) - is to be made at Llandovery, at the Urdd Eisteddfod, on 30 May 2023. Sword held over Page's head as he announces squad accompanied by a shout of 'A oes heddwch'? I like it. Could catch on.... England will be doing it next. They usually copy us.. (Cf zombie nation, love train at corners and bucket hats). Not to forget 5 at the back, and focusing on togetherness as well - straight out of the Cymru play book that |
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Post by rushy on May 21, 2023 11:33:20 GMT
Rodon starts today for Rennes.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on May 22, 2023 9:10:05 GMT
Interesting fact I came across in Twitter archive....
Mig🇹🇷
@cafcmig:
Anyone know where in Cardiff Tom Lockyer is from?
Nov 7, 2021
Steve Lockyer:
Nov 8, 2021
He is from Radyr. And we're still in Radyr. Tom’s dad!
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 23, 2023 20:49:26 GMT
Interesting fact I came across in Twitter archive.... Mig🇹🇷 @cafcmig: Anyone know where in Cardiff Tom Lockyer is from? Nov 7, 2021 Steve Lockyer: Nov 8, 2021 He is from Radyr. And we're still in Radyr. Tom’s dad! Yeah he went to Radyr High School - I played against him 10-15 times and most of those games were in cup finals as our two schools were comfortably the best in Cardiff. He was playing in central midfield at the time, as was I! I wish I could say we ever got the better of them in any of those games but we didn't! |
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Post by jimexotic on May 25, 2023 18:06:51 GMT
Lockyer is three years older than Rodon, coming into his prime and has played 5 times as many games as Rodon at club level. The argument for Lockyer starting ahead of Rodon becomes stronger than ever if Luton are promoted and Lockyer has 5 decent performances in his first 10-15 games because as much as I like Rodon he's yet to do that in a Spurs shirt and he's only had one good season in a Swansea shirt at Championship level.
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Post by morg on May 25, 2023 18:46:28 GMT
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