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Post by quetzal on Nov 20, 2020 18:03:28 GMT
Maybe he’s tired of carrying a load of entitled welsh people on his back! It is highly highly debatable that we would be where we are if it wasn’t for the size of his contribution in such a small period of time. Just let him be. Honestly, it shows how far we’ve come that a player’s celebration is all there is to complain about. I guess that’s a positive in a sense. Christ a lack of a celebration wouldn’t have even registered 10 years ago. Things happen when he’s on the pitch. Opposition seem to panic and get flustered. Look Kieffer’s involvement in the 2nd goal. Finland lose the plot after a few arms and elbows from the big man and it’s at the feet of James then boom!!! It took a while for me to see it. I’m a fan these days. |
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Post by dai on Nov 20, 2020 18:53:43 GMT
Interesting debate.
If we're on about weird celebrations, I always thought Ramsey's back of the shirt celebration in front of the canton a bit odd. (When he scored his 2nd goal vs Hungary)
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 20, 2020 20:02:24 GMT
Interesting debate. If we're on about weird celebrations, I always thought Ramsey's back of the shirt celebration in front of the canton a bit odd. (When he scored his 2nd goal vs Hungary) Probably because everyone in the Canton was mistakenly singing Kieffer Moore's name after Rambo had scored the 1st! A humorous reference to that I'd have thought |
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Post by dai on Nov 20, 2020 20:20:55 GMT
Interesting debate. If we're on about weird celebrations, I always thought Ramsey's back of the shirt celebration in front of the canton a bit odd. (When he scored his 2nd goal vs Hungary) Probably because everyone in the Canton was mistakenly singing Kieffer Moore's name after Rambo had scored the 1st! A humorous reference to that I'd have thought Oh yeah, makes sense. I always thought was he trying to make a point because he'd missed so many games....... |
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Post by insertname on Nov 20, 2020 20:46:19 GMT
Maybe he’s tired of carrying a load of entitled welsh people on his back! It is highly highly debatable that we would be where we are if it wasn’t for the size of his contribution in such a small period of time. Just let him be. Honestly, it shows how far we’ve come that a player’s celebration is all there is to complain about. I guess that’s a positive in a sense. Christ a lack of a celebration wouldn’t have even registered 10 years ago. Things happen when he’s on the pitch. Opposition seem to panic and get flustered. Look Kieffer’s involvement in the 2nd goal. Finland lose the plot after a few arms and elbows from the big man and it’s at the feet of James then boom!!! It took a while for me to see it. I’m a fan these days. Yep, he got a boot in on the Finnish lad as the ball broke to whoever it was to pass to James to score the first. He’s an absolute nuisance and I feel bad for him how he gets dug out a bit because his effect on our goal threat has been profound. |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 20, 2020 21:03:55 GMT
I thought his non celebration was down to the fact he had obviously injured himself a few minutes earlier so was feeling the pain
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Post by pendragon on Nov 21, 2020 10:36:08 GMT
Maybe he’s tired of carrying a load of entitled welsh people on his back! It is highly highly debatable that we would be where we are if it wasn’t for the size of his contribution in such a small period of time. Just let him be. Honestly, it shows how far we’ve come that a player’s celebration is all there is to complain about. I guess that’s a positive in a sense. Christ a lack of a celebration wouldn’t have even registered 10 years ago. To be honest, when I first saw his reaction to his goal, my response was one of concern, rather than indignation. I do hope he is not feeling sidelined or that the injury was serious. Whatever the truth of the matter, I hope he's okay! Having seen some other goal celebrations of his, I do notice that he is not a particularly enthusiastic celebrator compared to some of our other scorers - perhaps he has become too accustomed to scoring for us! 😃 |
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Post by insertname on Nov 21, 2020 12:29:44 GMT
Maybe he’s tired of carrying a load of entitled welsh people on his back! It is highly highly debatable that we would be where we are if it wasn’t for the size of his contribution in such a small period of time. Just let him be. Honestly, it shows how far we’ve come that a player’s celebration is all there is to complain about. I guess that’s a positive in a sense. Christ a lack of a celebration wouldn’t have even registered 10 years ago. To be honest, when I first saw his reaction to his goal, my response was one of concern, rather than indignation. I do hope he is not feeling sidelined or that the injury was serious. Whatever the truth of the matter, I hope he's okay! Having seen some other goal celebrations of his, I do notice that he is not a particularly enthusiastic celebrator compared to some of our other scorers - perhaps he has become too accustomed to scoring for us! 😃 Well quite! The bloke’s scoring rate for us is very respectable indeed. For those who argue they are mostly tap ins many a professional (looks at Vokes) has struggled to put them away so you have to give him due respect. He’s proved he can change games from us, off the bench if needs be. So for me, I think it’s a bit pedantic some people on the internet are making a mountain out of a molehill but for a TV station to bring it up is worrying and ridiculous. Just let him get on with it because if he decides to flounce off and retire in a huff at feeling unappreciated it would give us problems we could do without. |
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 21, 2020 15:02:50 GMT
To be honest, when I first saw his reaction to his goal, my response was one of concern, rather than indignation. I do hope he is not feeling sidelined or that the injury was serious. Whatever the truth of the matter, I hope he's okay! Having seen some other goal celebrations of his, I do notice that he is not a particularly enthusiastic celebrator compared to some of our other scorers - perhaps he has become too accustomed to scoring for us! 😃 Well quite! The bloke’s scoring rate for us is very respectable indeed. For those who argue they are mostly tap ins many a professional (looks at Vokes) has struggled to put them away so you have to give him due respect. He’s proved he can change games from us, off the bench if needs be. So for me, I think it’s a bit pedantic some people on the internet are making a mountain out of a molehill but for a TV station to bring it up is worrying and ridiculous. Just let him get on with it because if he decides to flounce off and retire in a huff at feeling unappreciated it would give us problems we could do without. To be fair though there’s more to a tap in than it seems, timing a run, beating a defender. We’ve also had strikers who’ve made headering a ball at goal seem like a specialised skill. He times his runs, times his headers, reads where to find space. Quality player in my opinion. |
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Post by iot on Nov 21, 2020 15:13:30 GMT
I found one of cyfreithiwr's comments about him after the last game a bit bizarre where he said Moore shouldn't get credit for his goal because, given his height, it's easy for him to knock those ones in, basically just mistakenly acknowledging a major attribute of Moore's. Certain types of goals are easy to other footballers because of their natural talent, Moore finds it easy because of his dominance in the air. The end result's the same. Just found it a bit bizarre how that was used as a criticism, but I guess there isn't much logic to it so it's always going to come across as bizarre. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 21, 2020 16:40:25 GMT
Scored Cardiff's equaliser at Millwall
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Post by CrackityJones on Nov 21, 2020 16:46:17 GMT
Loves a late goal doesn’t he?
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 21, 2020 16:47:00 GMT
Loves a late goal doesn’t he? Almost got a second, great header forced an even better save |
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Post by dai on Nov 21, 2020 18:37:11 GMT
More importantly, how did he celebrate?
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 21, 2020 19:01:25 GMT
More importantly, how did he celebrate? If he didn’t celebrate like Tonker vs Argentina we should send him back to the England C Squad. |
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Post by insertname on Nov 21, 2020 20:30:57 GMT
I found one of cyfreithiwr's comments about him after the last game a bit bizarre where he said Moore shouldn't get credit for his goal because, given his height, it's easy for him to knock those ones in, basically just mistakenly acknowledging a major attribute of Moore's. Certain types of goals are easy to other footballers because of their natural talent, Moore finds it easy because of his dominance in the air. The end result's the same. Just found it a bit bizarre how that was used as a criticism, but I guess there isn't much logic to it so it's always going to come across as bizarre. Maybe he should be banned from being able to head the ball seeing as it comes so naturally to him it’s an unfair advantage. Maybe we should ban Messi from kicking a ball because he find that too easy too. Where does it end? |
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Post by dai on Nov 21, 2020 20:38:54 GMT
I really don't understand people who STILL can't appreciate Moore. The guy's scored 4 goals in 12 games, what more (pardon the pun) is he meant to do?
Let's compare that to Bale, who is our greatest of all time and supposedly best attacker - he's only managed 1 goal in his last 15 games for Wales. Yes, you could argue he's had assists as well, but c'mon, shouldn't we expect more than that? If I were to start criticising Bale for his lack of goals I'd get ridiculed.
And with Moore, he's missed a few sitters as well - that chance against Ireland, a header vs Azerbaijan, the one on one against England. But at least he's getting into those spaces as well. How many times have we said that about players like Vokes and Church?
Is it the 'Anglo' thing with Moore that people don't like?
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Nov 21, 2020 20:51:26 GMT
I really don't understand people who STILL can't appreciate Moore. The guy's scored 4 goals in 12 games, what more (pardon the pun) is he meant to do? Let's compare that to Bale, who is our greatest of all time and supposedly best attacker - he's only managed 1 goal in his last 15 games for Wales. Yes, you could argue he's had assists as well, but c'mon, shouldn't we expect more than that? If I were to start criticising Bale for his lack of goals I'd get ridiculed. And with Moore, he's missed a few sitters as well - that chance against Ireland, a header vs Azerbaijan, the one on one against England. But at least he's getting into those spaces as well. How many times have we said that about players like Vokes and Church? Is it the 'Anglo' thing with Moore that people don't like? I think it’s also the Cardiff thing too. Honestly all these 14 year old basement dwellers with footballers as profile pics are ridiculously negative/stupid - I’ve seen plenty of accounts with Swansea players as profile pictures nonsensically label him a ‘donkey’. As have some Swansea orientated posters on this forum. In fairness seen plenty of teenage Cardiff Twitter accounts needlessly dismissing Swansea players too though. |
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Post by insertname on Nov 21, 2020 23:30:55 GMT
I really don't understand people who STILL can't appreciate Moore. The guy's scored 4 goals in 12 games, what more (pardon the pun) is he meant to do? Let's compare that to Bale, who is our greatest of all time and supposedly best attacker - he's only managed 1 goal in his last 15 games for Wales. Yes, you could argue he's had assists as well, but c'mon, shouldn't we expect more than that? If I were to start criticising Bale for his lack of goals I'd get ridiculed. And with Moore, he's missed a few sitters as well - that chance against Ireland, a header vs Azerbaijan, the one on one against England. But at least he's getting into those spaces as well. How many times have we said that about players like Vokes and Church? Is it the 'Anglo' thing with Moore that people don't like? I think we could end the thread on that post. But to answer your question I think there is a snobbery and elitism about it. Even though he does the basics better than Vokes Vokes is considered more fashionable with respect to a passing game and so even though Moore brings goals to the team, either through scoring them, assisting them or just subtly taking players out to create space he is sometimes not seen as anything other than a nuisance who disrupts our ability to play passing football and who should be binned off so we can go back to labouring against organised defences by trying to pass them to death. Situations that, ironically, Moore has had to bail us out from because we simply aren’t very good at it. So for me we need Moore by necessity more than anything else. We struggle when we don’t have that focal point up front who can give the opposition’s defence a torrid time of it physically. |
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Post by welshrover on Nov 22, 2020 3:06:07 GMT
I like him, happy he is playing for us.
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 22, 2020 8:49:28 GMT
I really don't understand people who STILL can't appreciate Moore. The guy's scored 4 goals in 12 games, what more (pardon the pun) is he meant to do? Let's compare that to Bale, who is our greatest of all time and supposedly best attacker - he's only managed 1 goal in his last 15 games for Wales. Yes, you could argue he's had assists as well, but c'mon, shouldn't we expect more than that? If I were to start criticising Bale for his lack of goals I'd get ridiculed. And with Moore, he's missed a few sitters as well - that chance against Ireland, a header vs Azerbaijan, the one on one against England. But at least he's getting into those spaces as well. How many times have we said that about players like Vokes and Church? Is it the 'Anglo' thing with Moore that people don't like? Completely agree, I got into the thought pattern against Finland that Bale can’t score anymore. I love what Bale has done but the squad is built around letting Bale do as little as possible so he’s free to attack, but with that luxury he has to do more. I’d be happy with an assist if he wasn’t given special circumstances in the team, but does it warrant not really doing anything to help the team defensively? Moore puts himself about, holding the ball up, takes the physical hits from the CB’s and is usually our match winner. The tap ins he scores are similar to the one Bale missed against Finland. I think 100% that he’s outperforming Bale. No way should you get ridiculed for suggesting it. |
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Post by iot on Nov 22, 2020 9:30:28 GMT
I really don't understand people who STILL can't appreciate Moore. The guy's scored 4 goals in 12 games, what more (pardon the pun) is he meant to do? Let's compare that to Bale, who is our greatest of all time and supposedly best attacker - he's only managed 1 goal in his last 15 games for Wales. Yes, you could argue he's had assists as well, but c'mon, shouldn't we expect more than that? If I were to start criticising Bale for his lack of goals I'd get ridiculed. And with Moore, he's missed a few sitters as well - that chance against Ireland, a header vs Azerbaijan, the one on one against England. But at least he's getting into those spaces as well. How many times have we said that about players like Vokes and Church? Is it the 'Anglo' thing with Moore that people don't like? Completely agree, I got into the thought pattern against Finland that Bale can’t score anymore. I love what Bale has done but the squad is built around letting Bale do as little as possible so he’s free to attack, but with that luxury he has to do more. I’d be happy with an assist if he wasn’t given special circumstances in the team, but does it warrant not really doing anything to help the team defensively? Moore puts himself about, holding the ball up, takes the physical hits from the CB’s and is usually our match winner. The tap ins he scores are similar to the one Bale missed against Finland. I think 100% that he’s outperforming Bale. No way should you get ridiculed for suggesting it. No idea why a defence of Moore's contribution has to be turned into having a go at Bale's, but I completely disagree with your assessment. I think it's fairly lazy to say the team is built around Bale doing as little as possible and that he doesn't contribute anything defensively. That may have been true in previous campaigns, but certainly it hasn't been true in recent games. Bale's had a similar role to our other forwards, he's been pressing in the same manner as them (not as well as James, but as well as Wilson and Brooks) and the attacking/defensive responsibilities have been shared out equally across the forward line. In terms of output, he's assisted two goals in the last two games. I thought he was great against Finland and came close several times. If he can keep himself fit, I expect him to continue putting in performances like that which will certainly produce a few more goals and assists in the next campaign+euros. He remains our best forward by some distance |
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Post by dai on Nov 22, 2020 10:39:45 GMT
Completely agree, I got into the thought pattern against Finland that Bale can’t score anymore. I love what Bale has done but the squad is built around letting Bale do as little as possible so he’s free to attack, but with that luxury he has to do more. I’d be happy with an assist if he wasn’t given special circumstances in the team, but does it warrant not really doing anything to help the team defensively? Moore puts himself about, holding the ball up, takes the physical hits from the CB’s and is usually our match winner. The tap ins he scores are similar to the one Bale missed against Finland. I think 100% that he’s outperforming Bale. No way should you get ridiculed for suggesting it. No idea why a defence of Moore's contribution has to be turned into having a go at Bale's, but I completely disagree with your assessment. I think it's fairly lazy to say the team is built around Bale doing as little as possible and that he doesn't contribute anything defensively. That may have been true in previous campaigns, but certainly it hasn't been true in recent games. Bale's had a similar role to our other forwards, he's been pressing in the same manner as them (not as well as James, but as well as Wilson and Brooks) and the attacking/defensive responsibilities have been shared out equally across the forward line. In terms of output, he's assisted two goals in the last two games. I thought he was great against Finland and came close several times. If he can keep himself fit, I expect him to continue putting in performances like that which will certainly produce a few more goals and assists in the next campaign+euros. He remains our best forward by some distanceBeing mindful here not to turn this thread into a Bale debate, but if he remains our 'best forward by some distance', then a return of 1 goal in 15 games is very poor isn't it? I don't compare Bale to Ronaldo anymore, because he's a freak, but if players like Zlatan, Dzeko, Lewandowski etc were on a similar vein of form for their countries, questions would be asked. |
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Post by marsvolta on Nov 22, 2020 10:54:22 GMT
To be honest, other than the odd poster on here and a few on Twitter, I haven’t heard much criticism of Moore.
I’m sure that if Vokes and Doidge were being picked instead, the same posters would be asking why we’re ignoring a striker playing week in week out in the championship.
I know it only takes a few on social media to make things look worse but the vast majority of fans I talk to love him and he has become something of a cult figure
As far as I’m concerned there is no need to make this bigger than it is.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 22, 2020 11:03:34 GMT
To be honest, other than the odd poster on here and a few on Twitter, I haven’t heard much criticism of Moore. I’m sure that if Vokes and Doidge were being picked instead, the same posters would be asking why we’re ignoring a striker playing week in week out in the championship. I know it only takes a few on social media to make things look worse but the vast majority of fans I talk to love him and he has become something of a cult figure As far as I’m concerned there is no need to make this bigger than it is. Anyone criticising Moore needs to give their head a wobble. Absolute dangers. |
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Post by iot on Nov 22, 2020 11:03:50 GMT
No idea why a defence of Moore's contribution has to be turned into having a go at Bale's, but I completely disagree with your assessment. I think it's fairly lazy to say the team is built around Bale doing as little as possible and that he doesn't contribute anything defensively. That may have been true in previous campaigns, but certainly it hasn't been true in recent games. Bale's had a similar role to our other forwards, he's been pressing in the same manner as them (not as well as James, but as well as Wilson and Brooks) and the attacking/defensive responsibilities have been shared out equally across the forward line. In terms of output, he's assisted two goals in the last two games. I thought he was great against Finland and came close several times. If he can keep himself fit, I expect him to continue putting in performances like that which will certainly produce a few more goals and assists in the next campaign+euros. He remains our best forward by some distanceBeing mindful here not to turn this thread into a Bale debate, but if he remains our 'best forward by some distance', then a return of 1 goal in 15 games is very poor isn't it? I don't compare Bale to Ronaldo anymore, because he's a freak, but if players like Zlatan, Dzeko, Lewandowski etc were on a similar vein of form for their countries, questions would be asked. Well to start with, your stats are off there. He scored the equalizer against Croatia and the winner in the first game against Azerbaijan, meaning he's scored twice in the last 9 games. He also provided an assist in each of the last two games, and for the first goal in the win against Hungary. So that's 5 goal contributions in the last 9 games, which is some distance below his previously incredibly high standards, but not too shabby and probably higher than all our other forwards. And that was with Bale operating at way below 100% most of the time - the atrocious performance against Finland away and mediocre performance against Bulgaria at home. I felt in the game just gone, he's probably now up to 80-90% so going forward, I expect his output to be even higher than the 0.56 goal contribution he's averaged in the last 9 games and I expect that to be higher than our other forwards. What I liked in the last game was that he also offered so much more than end product. He was buzzing around the place for that 15min period in the second half and was a major threat each time he had the ball. I don't think it's any coincidence whatsoever that the momentum shifted immediately after he went off, which just shows the impact he has on the team aside from the end product. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 22, 2020 11:07:15 GMT
To be honest, other than the odd poster on here and a few on Twitter, I haven’t heard much criticism of Moore. I’m sure that if Vokes and Doidge were being picked instead, the same posters would be asking why we’re ignoring a striker playing week in week out in the championship. I know it only takes a few on social media to make things look worse but the vast majority of fans I talk to love him and he has become something of a cult figure As far as I’m concerned there is no need to make this bigger than it is. Anyone criticising Moore needs to give their head a wobble. Absolute dangers. Thankfully it only seems to be Swansea supporters criticising him, and I'm sure even their contingent on here would agree they have a number of total weirdos supporting them. The sort who take union jacks to games. |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Nov 22, 2020 11:32:14 GMT
Yeah, there's obviously some clueless people who follow us, most of which can be found on twitter and it's the same for every club. There's a few on there crying every time we play Neco ahead of Connor as well.
I find the criticism odd, especially the timing of it. He's got himself a goal, despite picking up a knock, in 45 minutes in a huge game for us and has got another goal this weekend for his club. He's not a complete striker, but he's comfortably the best and most effective out and out striker we've got.
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Post by CrackityJones on Nov 22, 2020 12:18:30 GMT
Like others have said, not many of our fans are criticising Mawr so don’t worry about it. The ones that do are probably armchair band wagon jumpers who don’t attend games so their opinion doesn’t mean much anyway.
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Post by dai on Nov 22, 2020 12:41:49 GMT
Being mindful here not to turn this thread into a Bale debate, but if he remains our 'best forward by some distance', then a return of 1 goal in 15 games is very poor isn't it? I don't compare Bale to Ronaldo anymore, because he's a freak, but if players like Zlatan, Dzeko, Lewandowski etc were on a similar vein of form for their countries, questions would be asked. Well to start with, your stats are off there. He scored the equalizer against Croatia and the winner in the first game against Azerbaijan, meaning he's scored twice in the last 9 games. He also provided an assist in each of the last two games, and for the first goal in the win against Hungary. So that's 5 goal contributions in the last 9 games, which is some distance below his previously incredibly high standards, but not too shabby and probably higher than all our other forwards. And that was with Bale operating at way below 100% most of the time - the atrocious performance against Finland away and mediocre performance against Bulgaria at home. I felt in the game just gone, he's probably now up to 80-90% so going forward, I expect his output to be even higher than the 0.56 goal contribution he's averaged in the last 9 games and I expect that to be higher than our other forwards. What I liked in the last game was that he also offered so much more than end product. He was buzzing around the place for that 15min period in the second half and was a major threat each time he had the ball. I don't think it's any coincidence whatsoever that the momentum shifted immediately after he went off, which just shows the impact he has on the team aside from the end product. Fair enough, I must have misheard Nic Parry on S4C, looking back he said 2 goals in 12 games (now 13), which is correct looking at the stats. Still relatively poor imo. Anyway, I'm not getting into a tit for tat argument about it, but based on the past few years I can't agree that he's the 'best forward by some distance'. Back to Moore.......... |
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