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Post by evans1282 on Jan 2, 2021 16:36:52 GMT
I don't completely disagree with some of the "he is only doing it at a low level,all he does is score goals" comments , surely there must come a tipping point when the sheer volume of goals pushes him forward.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 2, 2021 16:53:22 GMT
I don't completely disagree with some of the "he is only doing it at a low level,all he does is score goals" comments , surely there must come a tipping point when the sheer volume of goals pushes him forward. Agreed. If the rest of the team's build up play is good enough, and we can make chances for him, then his all round play could be irrelevant. He could be a use in games such as Belarus or Estonia, where we will dominate possession quite easily and we don't need a striker to contribute to build up as much. Even having two strikers on the pitch in Moore & Jephcott could be deadly in games like this where we just need to put any half chances away, and we can easily get balls into the box for both of them It's an interesting option to have, and I think we should have a look at him in the friendlies. Having someone with an eye for goal is never a bad thing
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 2, 2021 17:39:49 GMT
I don't completely disagree with some of the "he is only doing it at a low level,all he does is score goals" comments , surely there must come a tipping point when the sheer volume of goals pushes him forward. 12 goals in 17 games at 20 would suggest he can kick on to a higher level
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Jan 2, 2021 17:47:05 GMT
In the most recent U21's games, I was actually really impressed with Luke's ability to hold the ball up. It was a lot better than I thought it'd be. With Luke's age, he has time to develop in to a more rounded forward, and he can learn that part of it for sure, whilst his knack of finishing is something that you can't necessarily teach.
Scoring at the rate he is, he's going to get an opportunity in the Championship next season.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 2, 2021 21:14:56 GMT
Another one off the Ceredigion production line after RND. Born in Aberystwyth, guessing he doesn't speak Welsh as he moved to Cornwall quite young, and haven't seen anything about it in his interviews
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 4, 2021 9:35:19 GMT
Saying 'all he does is score goals' is like saying 'all that centre half does is defend'.
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Post by iot on Jan 4, 2021 11:30:51 GMT
Saying 'all he does is score goals' is like saying 'all that centre half does is defend'. No, it's really not. Defenders will always be involved and make defensive contributions each game. If a forward doesn't offer much aside from finishing, it's like playing with 10 men when those goals don't come off. The ability for that type of forward to score goals also depends on the playing style of the team. I'm not sure a prime Rob Earnshaw would fit into our side because he was just a finisher, and not much more. Our success against Finland, in particular, was around the way our three forwards worked together, swapped positions and linked up play. If we replaced one of those with someone who's a good finisher but can't do much else, we would have struggled. Moore is also effective in linking things up through his aerial dominance. From what I've read, Plymouth play in a more traditional set-up with two forwards up top and use Jephcott as a poacher. I'm not sure that would work in how we're set up as we don't often create those types of chances for a six-yard box striker
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 4, 2021 12:57:12 GMT
Saying 'all he does is score goals' is like saying 'all that centre half does is defend'. No, it's really not. Defenders will always be involved and make defensive contributions each game. If a forward doesn't offer much aside from finishing, it's like playing with 10 men when those goals don't come off. The ability for that type of forward to score goals also depends on the playing style of the team. I'm not sure a prime Rob Earnshaw would fit into our side because he was just a finisher, and not much more. Our success against Finland, in particular, was around the way our three forwards worked together, swapped positions and linked up play. If we replaced one of those with someone who's a good finisher but can't do much else, we would have struggled. Moore is also effective in linking things up through his aerial dominance. From what I've read, Plymouth play in a more traditional set-up with two forwards up top and use Jephcott as a poacher. I'm not sure that would work in how we're set up as we don't often create those types of chances for a six-yard box striker You don't think Moore can play as a target man in a 2 up top, with a finisher? We don't have to play with a rotating 3 and you always need a plan B.
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Post by iot on Jan 4, 2021 13:16:36 GMT
No, it's really not. Defenders will always be involved and make defensive contributions each game. If a forward doesn't offer much aside from finishing, it's like playing with 10 men when those goals don't come off. The ability for that type of forward to score goals also depends on the playing style of the team. I'm not sure a prime Rob Earnshaw would fit into our side because he was just a finisher, and not much more. Our success against Finland, in particular, was around the way our three forwards worked together, swapped positions and linked up play. If we replaced one of those with someone who's a good finisher but can't do much else, we would have struggled. Moore is also effective in linking things up through his aerial dominance. From what I've read, Plymouth play in a more traditional set-up with two forwards up top and use Jephcott as a poacher. I'm not sure that would work in how we're set up as we don't often create those types of chances for a six-yard box striker You don't think Moore can play as a target man in a 2 up top, with a finisher? We don't have to play with a rotating 3 and you always need a plan B. Potentially, but that would represent a significant drop-off in quality. Essentially playing a championship/league-1 forward pairing. We would then only be able to fit in two of bale, ramsey, brooks and james (not to mention the likes of wilson, joniesta and matondo), so the drop-off in quality means it's not something I'd ever advocate as a plan A, B, C or D in an important match. It would also presumably take time and friendlies to work on that system to make it effective, and I doubt we would invest that much into it. What would your potential 11 be with that forward pairing? I assume we'd have to go for something like this which would leave no room for rambo and one of brooks/bale/james: Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Brooks/Bale Bale/James Moore Jephcott
or if we want to fit in rambo, we could go for something like this but would need to leave out james and one of bale/brooks Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Rambo Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott Or we could do it with a back-five, but we would need to leave out yet another star player: Hennessey Neco Meps Rodon Davies RND Ampadu Allen Rambo/Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 4, 2021 13:25:16 GMT
You don't think Moore can play as a target man in a 2 up top, with a finisher? We don't have to play with a rotating 3 and you always need a plan B. Potentially, but that would represent a significant drop-off in quality. Essentially playing a championship/league-1 forward pairing. We would then only be able to fit in two of bale, ramsey, brooks and james (not to mention the likes of wilson, joniesta and matondo), so the drop-off in quality means it's not something I'd ever advocate as a plan A, B, C or D in an important match. It would also presumably take time and friendlies to work on that system to make it effective, and I doubt we would invest that much into it. What would your potential 11 be with that forward pairing? I assume we'd have to go for something like this which would leave no room for rambo and one of brooks/bale/james: Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Brooks/Bale Bale/James Moore Jephcott
or if we want to fit in rambo, we could go for something like this but would need to leave out james and one of bale/brooks Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Rambo Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott Or we could do it with a back-five, but we would need to leave out yet another star player: Hennessey Neco Meps Rodon Davies RND Ampadu Allen Rambo/Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott Shoehorning all of your best players into a starting XI is not the best way to approach picking your team. E.g. England early/mid 2000's. Balance and shape is just as (if not more) important as the individual ability of each player. Also saying 4-4-2 is not a viable plan B, C or D is a bit of a stretch.
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Post by iot on Jan 4, 2021 13:43:15 GMT
Potentially, but that would represent a significant drop-off in quality. Essentially playing a championship/league-1 forward pairing. We would then only be able to fit in two of bale, ramsey, brooks and james (not to mention the likes of wilson, joniesta and matondo), so the drop-off in quality means it's not something I'd ever advocate as a plan A, B, C or D in an important match. It would also presumably take time and friendlies to work on that system to make it effective, and I doubt we would invest that much into it. What would your potential 11 be with that forward pairing? I assume we'd have to go for something like this which would leave no room for rambo and one of brooks/bale/james: Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Brooks/Bale Bale/James Moore Jephcott
or if we want to fit in rambo, we could go for something like this but would need to leave out james and one of bale/brooks Hennessey Roberts Meps Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen Rambo Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott Or we could do it with a back-five, but we would need to leave out yet another star player: Hennessey Neco Meps Rodon Davies RND Ampadu Allen Rambo/Brooks/Bale Moore Jephcott Shoehorning all of your best players into a starting XI is not the best way to approach picking your team. E.g. England early/mid 2000's. Balance and shape is just as (if not more) important as the individual ability of each player. Also saying 4-4-2 is not a viable plan B, C or D is a bit of a stretch. The accusation of shoehorning all the best players into a team is usually applied where those players are forced to play out of position just to fit in. I don't see how it's relevant in this instance? We currently have two systems that accommodates our best players and with round pegs in round holes. So if you want to work on a 442 as a third system, how many games and training time would need to be dedicated towards working on that? Or do you think we can just turn it on when hardly no one has played 442 for about 15 years, with only 2-3 training days each international break, and with barely any friendlies lined up? I just don't see how it would be viable.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 4, 2021 14:24:35 GMT
Iโd love if we had drawn Andorra/San Marino (of course England end up with both! Eye roll!) so that we could try a 4-4-2 diamond, similar to what was posted above
Henessey Neco-Cabango-Rodon-Davies Allen Bale James Ramsey Moore-Jephcott
I think weโd actually spank a minnow (for once) with a team like that, as they wouldnโt be able to deal with the wide threats and 2 strikers in the box with us having 75% of the ball. Plenty of options for bringing on the likes of Brennan, Tyler, Rabbi, Sheehan et al, as well
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Post by iot on Jan 4, 2021 15:12:54 GMT
Iโd love if we had drawn Andorra/San Marino (of course England end up with both! Eye roll!) so that we could try a 4-4-2 diamond, similar to what was posted above Henessey Neco-Cabango-Rodon-Davies Allen Bale James Ramsey Moore-Jephcott I think weโd actually spank a minnow (for once) with a team like that, as they wouldnโt be able to deal with the wide threats and 2 strikers in the box with us having 75% of the ball. Plenty of options for bringing on the likes of Brennan, Tyler, Rabbi, Sheehan et al, as well That might work against minnows, but wouldn't be a viable option against any decent side. It would leave us with Allen alone to patrol the entire midfield, poor guy!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 4, 2021 18:04:37 GMT
Iโd love if we had drawn Andorra/San Marino (of course England end up with both! Eye roll!) so that we could try a 4-4-2 diamond, similar to what was posted above Henessey Neco-Cabango-Rodon-Davies Allen Bale James Ramsey Moore-Jephcott I think weโd actually spank a minnow (for once) with a team like that, as they wouldnโt be able to deal with the wide threats and 2 strikers in the box with us having 75% of the ball. Plenty of options for bringing on the likes of Brennan, Tyler, Rabbi, Sheehan et al, as well That might work against minnows, but wouldn't be a viable option against any decent side. It would leave us with Allen alone to patrol the entire midfield, poor guy!ย Oh of course. But tinkering our setup to dominate minnows has been something we're bad at in the past. The 5 at the back against Andorra springing to mind, even playing a traditional 4-3-3 to my mind is a bad idea against a team that is literally just trying to defend deep at all costs Control of the midfield can be maintained with reduced quantity of numbers, and we can put more pressure on with two traditional no.9s in their box. It's a shame we aren't playing a proper minnow as I'd like to test this thought experiment out, but as you said it's unviable against others. Even Estonia and Belarus are probably too strong
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 5, 2021 7:27:36 GMT
Shoehorning all of your best players into a starting XI is not the best way to approach picking your team. E.g. England early/mid 2000's. Balance and shape is just as (if not more) important as the individual ability of each player. Also saying 4-4-2 is not a viable plan B, C or D is a bit of a stretch. The accusation of shoehorning all the best players into a team is usually applied where those players are forced to play out of position just to fit in. I don't see how it's relevant in this instance? We currently have two systems that accommodates our best players and with round pegs in round holes. So if you want to work on a 442 as a third system, how many games and training time would need to be dedicated towards working on that? Or do you think we can just turn it on when hardly no one has played 442 for about 15 years, with only 2-3 training days each international break, and with barely any friendlies lined up? I just don't see how it would be viable. Depends if you want to scrape 1-0 wins (or 0-0 draws) which in itself is unsustainable. The lack of a bona fide goalscorer is evident in the results. I'm not saying he should start I'm saying he's worth bringing in to the squad gently (e.g. friendly) as he is outscoring everyone, albeit in L1.
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 5, 2021 7:36:59 GMT
Shoehorning all of your best players into a starting XI is not the best way to approach picking your team. E.g. England early/mid 2000's. Balance and shape is just as (if not more) important as the individual ability of each player. Also saying 4-4-2 is not a viable plan B, C or D is a bit of a stretch. The accusation of shoehorning all the best players into a team is usually applied where those players are forced to play out of position just to fit in. I don't see how it's relevant in this instance? We currently have two systems that accommodates our best players and with round pegs in round holes. So if you want to work on a 442 as a third system, how many games and training time would need to be dedicated towards working on that? Or do you think we can just turn it on when hardly no one has played 442 for about 15 years, with only 2-3 training days each international break, and with barely any friendlies lined up? I just don't see how it would be viable. This is a bit sarcastic for me. I was just saying it's worth trying. I didn't advocate wholesale changes to the system or the formation. I'm not trying to 'win' here I just want to get the point across about the lack of a goalscorer, evident in the lack of goals.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 5, 2021 12:40:46 GMT
This "floating 3" or whatever has hardly made us prolific goalscorers. In spite of all this attacking talent it took the introduction of a "traditional" centre forward in Moore to make it work, I don't see why Jephcott should be dismissed for being "just a goalscorer"
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 5, 2021 14:16:40 GMT
Also if you read the Welsh Way - really everyone should read it, it's a manifesto for Welsh football of sorts - you'll see that the belief is that players should be developed to have really solid fundamentals but also have flexibility of the roles/positions they may be required to fulfill
Basically not to train someone to be an outstanding left winger only, but to train someone to have good skill base for a winger, but also skills that enable adaptation
This approach is clearly bearing fruit, as we changed formation mid-game against Finland, like it was nothing! That is such a huge advantage to have, and it's not an easy thing to cultivate
Certain scenarios may well suit a 4-4-2 inthe future, although for now that's on the back burner as I can't see a scenario for that until after 2022. However, should we try Jephcott in out current system instead of Moore in a friendly? Absolutely!
Just remember, people were very very skeptical of Moore when he came in for being 'just a big lump' and it turned out that lump was just what we needed. In a sense having 'just a goalscorer' may well add a new dimension to our squad, and maybe if all goes well we can adapt to fitting Jephcott in. He may even surprise us in terms of his all-round ability - I haven't watched him enough to say
I'd be very surprised if he wasn't included in March
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Post by iot on Jan 5, 2021 14:45:32 GMT
The accusation of shoehorning all the best players into a team is usually applied where those players are forced to play out of position just to fit in. I don't see how it's relevant in this instance? We currently have two systems that accommodates our best players and with round pegs in round holes. So if you want to work on a 442 as a third system, how many games and training time would need to be dedicated towards working on that? Or do you think we can just turn it on when hardly no one has played 442 for about 15 years, with only 2-3 training days each international break, and with barely any friendlies lined up? I just don't see how it would be viable. Depends if you want to scrape 1-0 wins (or 0-0 draws) which in itself is unsustainable. The lack of a bona fide goalscorer is evident in the results. I'm not saying he should start I'm saying he's worth bringing in to the squad gently (e.g. friendly) as he is outscoring everyone, albeit in L1. If we were creating loads of chances and missing them, I'd agree. But that hasn't been the case. The issue hasn't been poor finishing, it's been the lack of creativity and tempo. From what I've read, I can't see Jephcott making a difference in that respect. On your second point, I'd be happy to see him in a friendly. My only concern is that we're only going to get one friendly over the next few months with potentially one or two more before the euros, so it's a question of the best way to use those friendlies. Whether we decide to test a 442, or work on other things.
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 6, 2021 8:21:58 GMT
Depends if you want to scrape 1-0 wins (or 0-0 draws) which in itself is unsustainable. The lack of a bona fide goalscorer is evident in the results. I'm not saying he should start I'm saying he's worth bringing in to the squad gently (e.g. friendly) as he is outscoring everyone, albeit in L1. If we were creating loads of chances and missing them, I'd agree. But that hasn't been the case. The issue hasn't been poor finishing, it's been the lack of creativity and tempo. F rom what I've read, I can't see Jephcott making a difference in that respect. On your second point, I'd be happy to see him in a friendly. My only concern is that we're only going to get one friendly over the next few months with potentially one or two more before the euros, so it's a question of the best way to use those friendlies. Whether we decide to test a 442, or work on other things. Let's be honest none of us, unless some are Plymouth fans maybe, will know enough about him to gauge his potential or his ability to play in a 3, a 2 or alone. If you've made an assumption that he is a goal hanging kind of poacher it might be worth holding off until we see him in the flesh for the senior team. One comment from another forum contributor about only being a goal scorer is not evidence. He may be more than just a goalscorer for all we know.
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Post by cadno on Jan 6, 2021 12:10:45 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 6, 2021 14:20:28 GMT
Sounds like a manager who is resigned to losing him, and is looking to whip up the interest to get a big fee from clubs competing for his signature Bodes well for us, surely a Championship move is on the cards, either now or in the summer. Would be amazing to see him in a side going for promotion
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Post by richierich333 on Jan 6, 2021 15:28:28 GMT
Didn't his manager say something along the lines of 'hottest property outside of the Premier League' or something similar? I understand you want to big your players up but that is one hell of a grand statement.
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Post by cadno on Jan 6, 2021 17:22:48 GMT
The Swans should sign him Hope he's given a fair chance by RG or whoever's in charge unlike Doidge/Vokes Bradshaw!
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Jan 7, 2021 9:35:17 GMT
I wanted Luke called up previously into the squad.
He is the future instead of calling up the likes of Vokes (great servant though he is ) and that Doidge, I think there is time for Bradshaw to show his undoubted talent so we should not dispose of him. Ryan he is a natural goalscorer give him a chance
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Post by rico on Jan 7, 2021 11:06:23 GMT
Not seen him play yet but sounds promising - who's he comparable with? (style of play more than ability)
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Post by welshrover on Jan 7, 2021 11:56:06 GMT
Not seen him play yet but sounds promising - who's he comparable with? (style of play more than ability) Denis Law ๐
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 7, 2021 13:34:22 GMT
Not seen him play yet but sounds promising - who's he comparable with? (style of play more than ability) I have only seen him play once, for our U21s against Germany. So I couldn't personally say But in his interviews I've seen him say he looks up to Harry Kane, as a striker who lacks pace but makes up for it with his movement. Someone else on this thread said he's in the Teddy Sheringham mould. So based on that I'd gather he's a poacher, not especially quick but with good movement, instincts and finishing ability. Most of his game will be within the width of the box and he looks to be on the end of moves
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 9, 2021 17:16:57 GMT
Plymouth live on the FA player at 1800 if anyone wants to see what heโs about.
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Post by cadno on Jan 9, 2021 18:27:39 GMT
Tidy assist there. His movement is very good especially in the opposition box. A little shimmy and well timed run to create a bit of space and invite the pass.
Huddersfield 2nd is a screamer!
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