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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 27, 2024 22:56:46 GMT
I know it's a futile hope but I really wish Page would stop massively exaggerating things. It's a really unattractive trait, and smacks of insecurity. The latest example is his claim that this campaign has been about transition. The truth of the matter is that only one new player has made a significant contribution to our campaign, Jordan James. I suppose you could add Broadhead if you're being kind. But the vast majority of the squad are seasoned campaigners with plenty of caps. The transition has been miniscule, which is fine given that we had a decent squad anyway. But let's not kid ourselves that there's been a major break from the past, because that simply isn't true. Page needs to learn to be more measured when it comes to bigging himself up, because ultimately he will be judged on his record not on his pronouncements. He would do himself a massive favour if he were to understand this.
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Post by majorraglan on Mar 27, 2024 23:54:38 GMT
I would have preferred a period of reflection before making the decision to affirm Page's appointment. However, the vote of confidence is good for Page's morale, which isn't a bad thing. I would still like to see an experienced manager review footage of all our games and the playoffs and feed back to the manager. Performance reviews happen continually with players, why not with managers? Page should be open to this, if he's open minded and not defensive. It could be a great learning opportunity for him to sit down with someone like Graham Potter (tactically astute and emotionally intelligent) and talk through the decision making, where things have worked well and not so well. A lot cheaper than sacking the manager. I’m not a Page fan, however he’s had the vote of confidence from the FAW and he’ll be leading us for the foreseeable. Whilst I’d have preferred a change at the top, given he’s here to stay I think your suggestion about having an experienced manager review the games, tactics etc and discussing them with Page and the coaching team would be beneficial. You don’t know what you don’t know, so a fresh pair of eyes and supportive development is a really good idea. I’ve seen coaching techniques and the Experiential Learning Cycle used outside football and it can be very effective. The FAW have a well regarded coaching program, they could use the students on that to review aspects of our performances. We have a well regarded Coaching program, why not get some of the students to look at it too. |
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Post by surge on Mar 28, 2024 9:34:33 GMT
I know it's a futile hope but I really wish Page would stop massively exaggerating things. It's a really unattractive trait, and smacks of insecurity. The latest example is his claim that this campaign has been about transition. The truth of the matter is that only one new player has made a significant contribution to our campaign, Jordan James. I suppose you could add Broadhead if you're being kind. But the vast majority of the squad are seasoned campaigners with plenty of caps. The transition has been miniscule, which is fine given that we had a decent squad anyway. But let's not kid ourselves that there's been a major break from the past, because that simply isn't true. Page needs to learn to be more measured when it comes to bigging himself up, because ultimately he will be judged on his record not on his pronouncements. He would do himself a massive favour if he were to understand this. If we compare the Ukraine play-off game to the Finland play-off game, there are four players in the same position. Ukraine to Poland and that increases to five. One of those was Neco Williams who has gone from talented youth product to emerging leader in the side. Six-seven changes in position from eleven sounds like a transition to me. Changing of the leadership core of the side is also substantial change. I agree that Page could be more effective in his comments, but again I think this is example of people not fairly reflecting on the changes since the World Cup. Transition period not yet over mind - I'd rather discuss if Page is man to see us through it rather than whether it's happening or not; although I agree with poster immediately before who says that Page is the man now, and we do what we can to support side across the line as best as possible. |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 28, 2024 9:36:57 GMT
Osian has upset a few higher ups at the Faw. So, don't expect to see him at the helm anytime soon unfortunately.
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Post by morg on Mar 28, 2024 9:59:05 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68675620£8 million  Think we have to arrange a 2nd friendly in June and use both June fixtures to provide playing time for the wider squad. Why not cap Koumas also? Arguably this will be our most important NL campaign. Winning the group would get us back in League A and improve our chances of WC qualification. Possibly 8 games to go in this calendar year. No more Armenia moments and we could and should be in a healthier position by the end of it.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Mar 28, 2024 10:15:41 GMT
Osian has upset a few higher ups at the Faw. So, don't expect to see him at the helm anytime soon unfortunately. Really? They can do one if true. |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 28, 2024 10:24:12 GMT
I suppose also come the World Cup draw we are due a big hitter in it (England, Spain etc) or if we are really unfortunate a big hitter and a returning big hitter (Italy)
At this moment in time I am not feeling over confident of visits to Wendy's etc!
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 28, 2024 10:25:28 GMT
Osian has upset a few higher ups at the Faw. So, don't expect to see him at the helm anytime soon unfortunately. Really? They can do one if true. Can't tell you any more than that I'm afraid, not that I have any inside info, but an acquaintance from my neck of the woods does work within the Faw's grass roots set-up. And as cautious as he is with talk from within the Faw, that's the main talking point after Tuesday's clusterfu@@ from Page. |
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Post by iot on Mar 28, 2024 10:31:51 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68675620£8 million Think we have to arrange a 2nd friendly in June and use both June fixtures to provide playing time for the wider squad. Why not cap Koumas also? Arguably this will be our most important NL campaign. Winning the group would get us back in League A and improve our chances of WC qualification. Possibly 8 games to go in this calendar year. No more Armenia moments and we could and should be in a healthier position by the end of it. Yeah, get all the experimentation done in the Summer - we could test Beck, Low, Savage, Finn Stevens, Da Silva, and Koumas, and test 4231 again. And then have a more measured approach in the Nations League where results will affect our rankings and playoff prospects. |
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Post by morg on Mar 28, 2024 10:50:58 GMT
I suppose also come the World Cup draw we are due a big hitter in it (England, Spain etc) or if we are really unfortunate a big hitter and a returning big hitter (Italy) At this moment in time I am not feeling over confident of visits to Wendy's etc! It'll be 12 groups instead of 10 this time so less chance of getting a big hitter ? Has it been decided whether pots for WC qualification will be based on FIFA rankings or by NL rankings? Either way we'd be hopeful of Pot 2 I guess. Or maybe even Pot 1 if the former? If it's NL rankings, will be amusing to see English fans' reactions when they realise they're in Pot 2. |
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Post by surge on Mar 28, 2024 11:08:29 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68675620£8 million Think we have to arrange a 2nd friendly in June and use both June fixtures to provide playing time for the wider squad. Why not cap Koumas also? Arguably this will be our most important NL campaign. Winning the group would get us back in League A and improve our chances of WC qualification. Possibly 8 games to go in this calendar year. No more Armenia moments and we could and should be in a healthier position by the end of it. Yes, this outcome is going to hurt for a while, as has the whole paying Giggs while he defends himself in court business. Hopefully it leads to something bigger and better (sharing hosting duties for next Euros may help) but we could really do with qualifying for next World Cup now. |
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Post by garynysmon on Mar 28, 2024 11:50:46 GMT
The financial situation may come to Page's rescue tbh. I expect a relatively quiet couple of months at the FAW given they will probably have to reign in spending now.
Does not qualifying have any implications on the proposed multi million pound investment into the Cymru Premier? Improving the league is arguably the biggest single act the FAW could ever influence to try and reduce our dependence on English-born players developed by English clubs. This current over reliance is incredibly risky, the well could run dry at any time and leaves player development totally outside of the FAW's sphere of influence.
Brian Flynn's search for Welsh grannies has served us well but should be a welcome add-on rather than the backbone of our playing squad. At the moment its either that or hoping that Cardiff and Swansea are skint enough to be forced to bring through a few youngsters rather than sign your run of the mill Championship journeymen.
I don't think that Page has done a terrible job, all considered. But I could never, hand on heart, state that he's the best man for the job when we have Osian Roberts still active in football.
One positive is Ramsey aside (who hasn't really made much of an impact for us over the recent campaign and hence wouldn't be a huge loss), we're not expecting any retirements.
Meanwhile the next set of youth intake seem to be pretty promising. If Brennan Johnson continues to develop like he has been at Spurs, we could have a potential talisman there. Not to Bale or even peak Ramsey levels maybe, but certainly a player that would force himself to pretty much any international side.
If things fall into place we may well qualify for the 2026 expanded World Cup despite Robert Page.
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Post by quetzal on Mar 28, 2024 11:58:41 GMT
The financial situation may come to Page's rescue tbh. I expect a relatively quiet couple of months at the FAW given they will probably have to reign in spending now. Does not qualifying have any implications on the proposed multi million pound investment into the Cymru Premier? I don't think that Page has done a terrible job, all considered. But I could never, hand on heart, state that he's the best man for the job when we have Osian Roberts still active in football. One positive is Ramsey aside (who hasn't really made much of an impact for us over the recent campaign and hence wouldn't be a huge loss), we're not expecting any retirements. Meanwhile the next set of youth intake seem to be pretty promising. If Brennan Johnson continues to develop like he has been at Spurs, we could have a potential talisman there. Not to Bale or even peak Ramsey levels maybe, but certainly a player that would force himself to pretty much any international side. If things fall into place we may well qualify for the 2026 expanded World Cup despite Robert Page. The financial situation because of the original 4 year contract. I’ve accepted that Page will be the manager now. I wanted him out after Qatar. Draws at home to Turkey and Poland(Loss after pens) and a loss to Armenia at home is not the best record after the disaster at the World Cup. But we go again. |
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Post by hooky on Mar 28, 2024 12:50:58 GMT
As stated on the other thread - I hope everyone realises Page is not going to get any better. In football (and most occupations) then when you have been involved somewhere for almost decade (I understand Page has been around the Welsh team for that long, if you include U21s?) then you have probably developed as much as you are going to
Always using the word proud. Well I am proud of the effort of the players but not proud of the coaching, our consistency, our tactics, our use of the bench or our failure when we had a great opportunity to go to what is going to be a fantastic tournament. Ampadu's look of shock and disbelief after we had lost told you everything. Shocked as it was a major opportunity spurned
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Post by bluebird68 on Mar 28, 2024 13:10:24 GMT
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Post by surge on Mar 28, 2024 13:12:40 GMT
As stated on the other thread - I hope everyone realises Page is not going to get any better. In football (and most occupations) then when you have been involved somewhere for almost decade (I understand Page has been around the Welsh team for that long, if you include U21s?) then you have probably developed as much as you are going to Always using the word proud. Well I am proud of the effort of the players but not proud of the coaching, our consistency, our tactics, our use of the bench or our failure when we had a great opportunity to go to what is going to be a fantastic tournament. Ampadu's look of shock and disbelief after we had lost told you everything. Shocked as it was a major opportunity spurned My view depends on the question being asked: Do I think Page is getting better as a manager? Yes, he's gone from someone reluctant to make subs and determined to force a 4-1-4-1 to someone who uses the bench better and understands need to have better defensive structure in front of CB's. We even tried three inventive set-pieces in most recent play-offs which we didn't see at start of his time. Yet again this is criticism which probably isn't fair. Do I think Page has already done enough to become one of our longest serving managers? I don't think so. Toshack ripped up the script but helped push us, at least in some aspects, towards being a more modern football nation. How will Page be seen retrospectively? I'm not yet sure what the reason is that he's been given so many games aside from tricky external circumstances...I still think starting Brennan and Kieffer was an error. Do I think we can come back from this really bad moment with Page in charge? Yup, I reckon so, but it's going to be a challenge and we're going to have to keep doing what we can as fans. That would probably be my response regardless of the manager mind. |
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Post by jono on Mar 28, 2024 13:22:46 GMT
As stated on the other thread - I hope everyone realises Page is not going to get any better. In football (and most occupations) then when you have been involved somewhere for almost decade (I understand Page has been around the Welsh team for that long, if you include U21s?) then you have probably developed as much as you are going to Always using the word proud. Well I am proud of the effort of the players but not proud of the coaching, our consistency, our tactics, our use of the bench or our failure when we had a great opportunity to go to what is going to be a fantastic tournament. Ampadu's look of shock and disbelief after we had lost told you everything. Shocked as it was a major opportunity spurned I could be wrong but there doesn't seem to be anyone within the camp who'll bollock anyone. There's too much of this nicey nicey put your arm around the shoulder bollocks. ''Proud of the lads''. Christ. We've been beaten by a side who never had a single shot on target against us. We need a couple of horrible fuckers in there. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 28, 2024 17:02:59 GMT
5 wins in the last 20 matches. It’s difficult to see how Page is going to improve things. I think most would agree he’s reached his ceiling.
Will probably end up managing a league 1 team in future.
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 28, 2024 17:04:37 GMT
As stated on the other thread - I hope everyone realises Page is not going to get any better. In football (and most occupations) then when you have been involved somewhere for almost decade (I understand Page has been around the Welsh team for that long, if you include U21s?) then you have probably developed as much as you are going to Always using the word proud. Well I am proud of the effort of the players but not proud of the coaching, our consistency, our tactics, our use of the bench or our failure when we had a great opportunity to go to what is going to be a fantastic tournament. Ampadu's look of shock and disbelief after we had lost told you everything. Shocked as it was a major opportunity spurned My view depends on the question being asked: Do I think Page is getting better as a manager? Yes, he's gone from someone reluctant to make subs and determined to force a 4-1-4-1 to someone who uses the bench better and understands need to have better defensive structure in front of CB's. We even tried three inventive set-pieces in most recent play-offs which we didn't see at start of his time. Yet again this is criticism which probably isn't fair. Do I think Page has already done enough to become one of our longest serving managers? I don't think so. Toshack ripped up the script but helped push us, at least in some aspects, towards being a more modern football nation. How will Page be seen retrospectively? I'm not yet sure what the reason is that he's been given so many games aside from tricky external circumstances...I still think starting Brennan and Kieffer was an error. Do I think we can come back from this really bad moment with Page in charge? Yup, I reckon so, but it's going to be a challenge and we're going to have to keep doing what we can as fans. That would probably be my response regardless of the manager mind. Uses subs well? Christ one sub in 90 mins tells a different story. The other sub was forced |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 28, 2024 18:00:39 GMT
I suppose also come the World Cup draw we are due a big hitter in it (England, Spain etc) or if we are really unfortunate a big hitter and a returning big hitter (Italy) At this moment in time I am not feeling over confident of visits to Wendy's etc! Wouldn't mind drawing a big hitter providing we get a weak 3rd seed (if we're 2nd seeds), hard to see us win a group against a top seed so would be good to have a very solid chance of a playoff |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 28, 2024 18:02:01 GMT
5 wins in the last 20 matches. It’s difficult to see how Page is going to improve things. I think most would agree he’s reached his ceiling. Will probably end up managing a league 1 team in future. A lot of that has been against top opposition though. England, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey, Croatia, South Korea account for 12 of those games |
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Post by dai on Mar 28, 2024 19:28:22 GMT
As stated on the other thread - I hope everyone realises Page is not going to get any better. In football (and most occupations) then when you have been involved somewhere for almost decade (I understand Page has been around the Welsh team for that long, if you include U21s?) then you have probably developed as much as you are going to Always using the word proud. Well I am proud of the effort of the players but not proud of the coaching, our consistency, our tactics, our use of the bench or our failure when we had a great opportunity to go to what is going to be a fantastic tournament. Ampadu's look of shock and disbelief after we had lost told you everything. Shocked as it was a major opportunity spurned I could be wrong but there doesn't seem to be anyone within the camp who'll bollock anyone. There's too much of this nicey nicey put your arm around the shoulder bollocks. ''Proud of the lads''. Christ. We've been beaten by a side who never had a single shot on target against us. We need a couple of horrible fuckers in there. I sort of agree with this. I'm not saying we need a complete k*ob ed in charge who'll bring down morale, but the best managers in the world have to make tough decision which can be upsetting for players. I don't see any touch decisions being made under Page. Sometimes you need a firecracker up your ar*e. |
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Post by cymruchris on Mar 28, 2024 19:30:06 GMT
Haven't the FAW just said his contract is ongoing up to the next World cup and they'll be the usual review? So 99% he stays on unless there's a real desire for change which seems unlikely given the near miss.
Pressure would've been overwhelming for instance if say had finished 4th in the group and then lost to Finland but at least still a fair bit better than that?
If you look on pure results then Page has done more than fine. Took over in difficult circumstances before the Euros and delivered last 16. The World cup qualification was his alone and all credit to him for that as Czech Republic continue to qualify comfortably for the Euros so it wasn't a given to get there ahead of them.
Of course we know the actual tournament performance was disappointing but I'm afraid that's tournament timing sometimes, one too far for the golden generation and some of the young players not quite being ready to step up.
This campaign took 4 points off the top seeds just like Coleman did in 2014-15 but of course the big mess up was Armenia. Mind you Turkey couldn't beat them at home either.
Fine margins. My biggest issue with Page is Brennan Johnson not really feeling quite part of things still. This is a guy who in 18 months of prem football has scored 13 in about 50 games and he can play across the forward line.
Why is he being taken off midway through the final? It backfired given James was put on to provide that direct threat and then a few minutes later has to retreat to RWB due to one injury. Moore was flagging badly at that stage aswell.
While Brennan probably isn't going to morph into the star dust quality of Bale he will more than likely be playing CL football next season so I want to see Page make him an essential part of the team in the way Ampadu certainly is.
It's important people don't panic. As long as Davies stays fit then the backline can be secure in important games and there's enough direct attackers to cause issues in end to end games.
I'd reserve judgement for another 12 months.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 28, 2024 19:45:48 GMT
The question is "how do you get the best out of Johnson?" If we go back to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 then he can play wide and be effective. But played centrally as a 9 or as a 10 in the 3-4-2-1 doesn't properly utilise his pace.
What do people think of us playing 4-3-3 going forwards? Wilson or Brooks and JJ either side of Ampadu with DJ and Brennan either side of Moore? I think Ampadu would suit that role really well, as it would give him the chance to showcase his quarterback capabilities. Sheehan could be a handy deputy. Brooks and Wilson have enough defensive capability to perform the 8 role well IMO.
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Post by bringbackelmo on Mar 28, 2024 19:50:54 GMT
Whatever the deal with the budget constraints after failing to qualify and the four year contract, it looks like *everyone* needs to accept Page will be taking us through WC qualifying. I think he'll be gone after that as we'll likely not make it, but it is what it is. There's been a lot of really toxic chat since Tuesday night and it isn't good.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 28, 2024 20:42:11 GMT
I'm really warming to the idea of playing a 4-3-3. It's perfect for Ampadu with his range of passing and ability to dictate proceedings. It also suits JJ, who has good stats for progressive carries and takeons compared to other Championship midfielders (see fbref). It also matches Wilson and Brooks' skillsets, with the former in particular having excellent defensive stats (high on interceptions, blocks and clearances and average on tackles compared to other PL attacking midfielders).
Johnson and DJ would be well suited to the wide attacking berths (interesting to note that Johnson has surprisingly good defensive stats - no doubt thanks to Postecoglu). Moore and to a lesser extent Broadhead would fit the central attacking slot. The only question mark concerns the back 4, with the same questions arising as with a 4-2-3-1. Neco is fine as a FB, but is Davies? And is the Rodon Mepham combo strong enough? The Nations League games are the perfect opportunity to test things out.
The thing I like most about a 4-3-3 is that it should give us some guile and creativity in the centre of the park that is currently lacking.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 28, 2024 20:49:50 GMT
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Post by fourfourtwo on Mar 29, 2024 12:27:23 GMT
I understand Ashley Williams has done his coaching badges and I bet he would love a crack at the Welsh job, given half a chance.
Yes he doesn't have proven managerial experience but if he surrounded himself with the right people, why not take a punt on him ?
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 29, 2024 13:09:31 GMT
I understand Ashley Williams has done his coaching badges and I bet he would love a crack at the Welsh job, given half a chance. Yes he doesn't have proven managerial experience but if he surrounded himself with the right people, why not take a punt on him ? They miss, James scores, we qualify, Page celebrated. They score, James misses, we go out, why not ditch Page for a guy that's never managed before. Yeah, nah. |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 29, 2024 13:20:41 GMT
Had we not had the announcement this week, I would have gone for Steve Clarke. And I fully expect the Scots to have a disastrous Euro's. And for Clarke to be the fall guy.
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