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Post by cardibach on Jun 29, 2010 22:30:51 GMT
After England's impressive showing at the weekend,  , we may be facing a virtually totally different side. Some will retire (James, Carragher, Beckham, etc), some are at the end of their international careers and may not be selected (Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, J Cole etc), and some, due to their performances in SA will probably never get picked again (Green, Heskey, Wright-Phillips, Upson, etc). Of their World Cup side, we may only see Rooney, Cashley Cole, Johnson, Hart and Milner in the qualifiers. What I'm getting at is, as far as our chances go, is this a good thing or a bad thing? Discuss. |
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Post by scoop76 on Jun 30, 2010 6:59:19 GMT
I thought our best chance of qualifying from this group was if England took maximum points from Switzerland, Bulgaria and Montenegro, giving us a great shot at second if we could then beat those sides ourselves.
Now I think any major unheaval in the England camp might be to the advantage of Bulgaria and Switzerland, who play England in September and October.
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Post by scoop76 on Jun 30, 2010 7:13:07 GMT
Will be interesting to see how experienced a team England send here in March.
Walcott aside, our youngsters - Henessey, Nyatanga, Bale, Ramsey, Evans, Vokes, etc - have a lot more full international experience under their belts.
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Post by cardibach on Jun 30, 2010 12:39:05 GMT
Just looked it up now - Walcott's only got 11 caps, with only 2 in competitive internationals. The rest were all in friendlies. Of his 11 caps, he has started in only 3 of them.
Not as experienced as I thought!
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Post by alrhyl on Jun 30, 2010 16:57:07 GMT
Crapello has apparently named 9 players he sees as England's future. This is not a joke!! Zamora, Milner, Hart, Agbonlahor, Rodwell, Dawson, Walcott, Johnson, Wilshire.
Huddlestone will probably be there too. They won't win anything with that lot!! ;D
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Post by saints19 on Jun 30, 2010 18:09:41 GMT
If, as a result of the World Cup, Capello makes a knee-jerk reaction and throws his lot in with the kids, we may have better chance than I thought. As scoop76 rightly points out, our youngsters are much more experienced in international football. Also, most of England's best players are still the guys who failed at the World Cup. The failure doesn't make them bad players, and those baying for the blood of these players, that they never play for England again, may regret it when they watch Carlton Cole or Adam Johnson miss a penalty in the 88th minute of their final qualifier which they needed to score to qualify.
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Post by cilmeri on Jul 1, 2010 9:44:44 GMT
Don't think it'll be a drastically different team, not for less than 10 months time. England will struggle for the next world cup qualifiers but for this one they'll stick with pretty much what they've got. You have to remember that Cappello has 2 years left on his contract and no sense of duty to develop younger players for the future so what's in it for him?
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Post by llannerch on Jul 1, 2010 12:47:48 GMT
Crapello has apparently named 9 players he sees as England's future. This is not a joke!! Zamora, Milner, Hart, Agbonlahor, Rodwell, Dawson, Walcott, Johnson, Wilshire. Huddlestone will probably be there too. They won't win anything with that lot!! ;D Considering we make do with counting the players we have in the Premiership, let alone squabble over which ones we should pick, we have to retain perspective. We'd take every one of these players in our squad. Scoop76's point about international experience is a good one - Dawson might be the Premiership player, but Nyatanga has the international experience. And although over the course of a season Dawson would show his greater class in spite of this, over 90 minutes........? |
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 1, 2010 21:24:06 GMT
All those English lads are decent players, but our youngsters have a big advantage over them- the lack of pressure to instantly perform well in international football. It's a lot, lot harder to ease your way in gently if you're a young England player, whereas someone like Lewin Nyatanga has racked up 30 odd caps at a very young age, making mistakes along the way, but being forgiven for them because we realise he has potential, and we don't have a huge amount of choice anyway. If England start to struggle a little bit in the qualifing, the pressure on their players could become a real burden...
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Post by Tim P on Jul 1, 2010 21:44:49 GMT
i hate to say it, but i dont see nyatanga ever improving beyond where he is now; certainly, both onuha (who is 50/50 whether he'll choose england) and micah richards are far better.
he seems 'soft', not especially skillful, and a bit cumbersome. that's a pretty dreadful combo for a centre half.
i excitedly await the next article, prompted via his agent, about a Dream Project at either real or Barca.
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 2, 2010 16:56:48 GMT
I don't think Nyatanga's agent is as good as Owain fon Williams'. I always thought he looked well dodgy for the U21's, and yet there were all these stories in the dragonsoccer news section linking him to premiership clubs. Bizarre.
Maybe Nyatanga wasn't the best example though, because I do share some of your reservations - he does look a wee bit cumbersome and does seem a wee bit 'soft' He doesn't really 'look' like a proper top quality footballer in the way that his club and country team mate Christain Ribiero does, for example. It'll be interesting to see who of those two plays the most games at Bristol City next season.
Gareth Bale would be a better example. In the team at a very, very young age and has always been a decent performer for us, but he has had the odd wobble, like getting caught on the ball for Germanys second goal at the mill few years back (thats the one where they did 'ouclass' us btw!) That would have been blown up out of all proportion had he done it playing for England.
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Post by llannerch on Jul 3, 2010 19:08:16 GMT
making mistakes along the way, but being forgiven for them Hardly. He's had about as hard a time as any player in the Welsh squad not called Carl |
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 3, 2010 22:41:24 GMT
'Lewin Nyatanga, from Newtown, not from Bangor!' I never heard any chants for the Carls.
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Post by llannerch on Jul 4, 2010 8:52:46 GMT
'Lewin Nyatanga, his Mum's from Newtown, not from Bangor!' I never heard any chants for the Carls. ;D |
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Post by walrus on Jul 4, 2010 11:38:44 GMT
The names on the england teamsheet are less important than Capello's ability to make them into a team. If he could get 11 players to play the way he really wants to then they will be good. He is having the same problem a s Tosh. Players are tactically and technically stupid.
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 4, 2010 21:43:15 GMT
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Post by saints19 on Jul 5, 2010 18:43:15 GMT
In fairness to England, there were a couple of things they could have pointed to pre-tournament.
Firstly. Alright, Keane is right in pointing out that only Rooney had an outstanding season for his club this year, but consistently over the last five years players like Terry, Gerrard and Lampard have been excellent for their clubs. And I still thought they had decent seasons for their clubs this year personally. Lampard and Gerrard still contributing vital performances for their clubs, while Barry (who Keane also commented on negatively) was solid in his debut season for Man City.
Secondly, England breezed through a good qualifying group containing Croatia and Ukraine. You can't tell me the wins against Croatia in particular weren't very impressive.
Also, thirdly. I don't think anyone thought England were necessarily going to win the competition. Even in the London tabloids most recognised that Spain and Brazil were the favourites and England were a little way behind. But the World Cup is a one-off knockout tournament and the form book can be upset. Look at the Dutch win over Brazil the other day. Few would have put their mortgage on that, yet you couldn't really ruyle it out either. All anyone ever said, as far as I can see, was that England had a chance if things went their way.
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Post by walrus on Jul 5, 2010 22:34:43 GMT
And what about the other teams in this group. Part of our problem in the British Isles is we are so inward looking. The English are great examples, every four years there is this huge expectation, then disaster, but between world cups nothing changes.
The welsh rugby team is the same " as long as we beat the english" As long as aberafan beats neath etc etc.
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 6, 2010 13:36:03 GMT
I hate the 'as long as we beat the English' attitude as much as anyone. Our other opponents have been discussed in the qualifiers watch thread though.
Quick recap:
Switzerland - Have only won 1 of their last 8 games. They have scored only 3 goals in those 8 games. 5 of those were at home. We go there in October.
Bulgaria- Finished 3rd in their WC qualifying group behind Ireland, and a fairly poor Italy (by their standards). Have since drawn with South Africa and been beaten by Belgium. Their star player and all time leading goalscorer Dimitar Berbatov has jsut retired form international football at the age of 29. We play them at home in October.
Montenegro- finished 5th in their qualifying group. Their last 3 matches were losses to Macedonia, Albania and Norway. We play them first up at the start of September.
In short, we simply have to at least BELIEVE we can finish 2nd in this group.
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Post by matty on Jul 6, 2010 13:46:30 GMT
I hate the 'as long as we beat the English' attitude as much as anyone. Our other opponents have been discussed in the qualifiers watch thread though. Quick recap: Switzerland - Have only won 1 of their last 8 games. They have scored only 3 goals in those 8 games. 5 of those were at home. We go there in October. Bulgaria- Finished 3rd in their WC qualifying group behind Ireland, and a fairly poor Italy (by their standards). Have since drawn with South Africa and been beaten by Belgium. Their star player and all time leading goalscorer Dimitar Berbatov has jsut retired form international football at the age of 29. We play them at home in October. Montenegro- finished 5th in their qualifying group. Their last 3 matches were losses to Macedonia, Albania and Norway. We play them first up at the start of September. In short, we simply have to at least BELIEVE we can finish 2nd in this group. Totally agree. Belief though is something that management can instill - under Flynn I think the players and fans would believe 2nd place was realistic. Under Toshack the opposite applies. Don't under-estimate those teams though, they are the sort of team to lose to us, then beat England. My only concern is Ramsey, Collison and Allen being out of 2010....although saying that it is time for Stock, King and a few others to step up. |
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Post by flynnfan on Jul 23, 2010 13:02:15 GMT
www.football365.com/john_nicholson/0,17033,8746_6274497,00.html If this guy is right, it doesn't look like England will be bringing many of their U19s to play against us in the forthcoming qualifiers. That line about them beating the Austrians only 'by being more physically more dominant and benefitting from a couple of defensive howlers' made me laugh beacause I think that's exactly how they beat our U21s 5-4 in the Euro play offs...
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, we may be facing a virtually totally different side. Some will retire (James, Carragher, Beckham, etc), some are at the end of their international careers and may not be selected (Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, J Cole etc), and some, due to their performances in SA will probably never get picked again (Green, Heskey, Wright-Phillips, Upson, etc).
