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Post by dai on Mar 27, 2019 11:39:31 GMT
Prior to the game against Slovakia I, amongst many others, was hoping Giggs would go for a more solid defensive base to the team selection. Allen and Smith together were superb, and provided precisely the platform that was lacking against Denmark in the Nations League games. Credit to Giggs for getting it right this time, and it was good to hear him post-match talk of the value of a clean sheet. It gives me confidence going forwards that we won't be too gung ho in future and that Giggs will select any two (perhaps even three on occasion?) of Allen, Smith and Ampadu to anchor the midfield. However, I wonder if there is still an argument that we're a bit imbalanced? On Sunday, we essentially had four dribblers in attack, in James, Bale, Wilson and Brooks. Not only that but Roberts fancies a dribble too - as do the unavailable Lawrence and Matondo. Things worked out well in the end (although we all know that Hancko should have scored late on) - but at times I thought we lacked a bit of control. In that respect Ramsey was missed - and hopefully on his return we will see a greater diversity in our attacking play. Rather than players always looking to go it alone there is a lot to be said for building pressure (especially if the defence is already in position) through patient build-up play, to complement the fast counter-attacks. Having watched the game a second time, Connor Roberts had a good game, but was under-utilised going forwards, with both Brooks and Tyler often choosing to go on a dribble rather than playing short one-twos, which Connor excels at. If you look at the passage of play that lead to the Hancko miskick that should have brought the game level, Slovakia had the ball continuously for nearly a minute - pressing and probing with neat short-passing triangles, before finally working the opening with Smith (understandably knackered) failing to track the runner on the inside of Davies. That's the sort of stuff we should be looking to emulate at times in matches - we certainly don't lack the technical capability to do so any more. Counter-attacking is a strong suit of ours with our current personnel, but we don't have to be one-dimensional. A balanced approach to how we take the game to the opposition will be more productive in my opinion. I'm not sure I agree with that. I personally don't see Wilson as a dribbler, he has no where near the same pace as Brooks and James, and I haven't seen him beat players that much. Bale doesn't have the speed anymore either, unless he was carrying a niggle Sunday. However I haven't seen him dribble or go on runs for Wales or Real Madrid for quite some time. He's probably slowly evolving into more of a CF / striker as Ronaldo did in his later years. I would probably choose the same midfield / forwards again, but replace Wilson with Ramsey for that No 10 role.
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Post by dai on Mar 27, 2019 11:43:39 GMT
Looking back at this match, I feel we missed Tom Lawrence. Taking off Brooks and James left us pretty impotent in attack and if we had Lawrence coming on we'd have been far more dangerous on the counter as Slovakia pressed. Not saying we would have scored again, but probably been closer.
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 27, 2019 12:08:29 GMT
Yeah Lawrence can play well through the middle, which allows Bale and Brooks to go wide in a fluid front three, as shown against ROI at home.
Bale was used more through the middle against Slovakia and was less effective as a result. His best moments came when he drifted wide and ran at their defence. Still did a job mind and its a role I'm confident he will grow into.
Anyway, its great having so many potent options up top. They just need to be utilised effectively.
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Post by alarch on Mar 27, 2019 12:16:22 GMT
Wilson drew several fouls, and at least one booking (two?) from the Slovakian, thanks to his dribbling. If anything, I'd say he's faster than Brooks. James on the other hand is in a different league pace wise. Bale still has pace, as he showed early doors, getting to the byeline by skinning a defender, where a pull back would have put us 2-0 ahead.
Apart from the dribbling abilities we have (and that's no bad thing in and of itself), what we had on Sunday were a lot of players who express themselves a lot individually, through dribbles and by utilising pace, rather than players who prefer to build attacks through inter-passing and team play. When Ramsey comes back (and I agree, at the expense of Wilson, all things being equal) then this should take us some way towards creating the sort of balance I think we're a bit short of at the moment.
Lawrence wouldn't add control. What we needed on Sunday late on was an Ampadu to add further stability in front of the back 5. It's a bit ironic that just about the only time the Slovakians got behind our defence was after we'd gone to a back 5. That was down to Smith's (understandable given his inevitable fatigue) failure to track a runner from midfield.
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Post by bringbackelmo on Mar 27, 2019 12:43:34 GMT
Agreed, I would have been a lot less concerned if we'd have been able to bring Ampadu on on Sunday (although he should be starting if fit)
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 27, 2019 12:46:31 GMT
Agreed, I would have been a lot less concerned if we'd have been able to bring Ampadu on on Sunday (although he should be starting if fit) That’s debatable after Smiths performance.
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Post by dai on Mar 27, 2019 13:14:09 GMT
Smith > Ampadu
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Post by rushlegend on Mar 27, 2019 13:15:47 GMT
Think Dai means Smith & Ampadu with 15 mins left? by taking Wilson off.
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Post by rushlegend on Mar 27, 2019 13:16:49 GMT
Sorry was responding to bringbackelmo's post!!
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Post by donttakemehomebutt - Lobsy on Mar 27, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday?
performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang
someone needs to have a word with four eyes
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Post by fourfourtwo on Mar 27, 2019 13:25:46 GMT
The one big plus point for me is that we now have some genuine competition for almost every position (except maybe centre forward), and that if we lose players to injury then we have decent quality players ready to come in and replace them. Once some of the youngsters have more experience of playing together, I think our attacking play will become a lot more fluid. Things broke down on Sunday in the final third, when players were not quite on the same wavelength, but that should come with time. It was vital we got off the mark with a win, so in that sense it was mission accomplished, and we can look forward to June, when we might well spring a surprise against an ageing Croatian side.
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Post by texan on Mar 27, 2019 13:26:27 GMT
...what we had on Sunday were a lot of players who express themselves a lot individually, through dribbles and by utilising pace, rather than players who prefer to build attacks through inter-passing and team play. When Ramsey comes back (and I agree, at the expense of Wilson, all things being equal) then this should take us some way towards creating the sort of balance I think we're a bit short of at the moment. This is also down to unfamiliarity, the young ones aren't fully confident in their colleagues yet and don't fully know how they each prefer to play/move/receive passes, so they rely primarily on their own abilities over and above the collaboration with their teammates. The more they train together the more intuitive they'll become and, as a result, they'll calm down and learn to be patient and more methodical in their attack. Not to say they'll lose their intensity of course, simply that they'll learn to control it better and know when/where to use it during play. It bodes very well that such a new line-up was able to gel so well after such a short time together, and it can only get better as time goes on. However I agree that the return of Ramsey in addition to Bale will certainly help to balance them out quicker in the short term.
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Post by alarch on Mar 27, 2019 14:27:09 GMT
...what we had on Sunday were a lot of players who express themselves a lot individually, through dribbles and by utilising pace, rather than players who prefer to build attacks through inter-passing and team play. When Ramsey comes back (and I agree, at the expense of Wilson, all things being equal) then this should take us some way towards creating the sort of balance I think we're a bit short of at the moment. This is also down to unfamiliarity, the young ones aren't fully confident in their colleagues yet and don't fully know how they each prefer to play/move/receive passes, so they rely primarily on their own abilities over and above the collaboration with their teammates. The more they train together the more intuitive they'll become and, as a result, they'll calm down and learn to be patient and more methodical in their attack. Not to say they'll lose their intensity of course, simply that they'll learn to control it better and know when/where to use it during play. It bodes very well that such a new line-up was able to gel so well after such a short time together, and it can only get better as time goes on. However I agree that the return of Ramsey in addition to Bale will certainly help to balance them out quicker in the short term. Hard to disagree with much of that, but instruction and team selection will play its part in us adopting a more balanced approach to things. Ramsey is a guaranteed starter if available, but without him there aren't any obvious alternatives, other than Brooks, that are currently available. If there was one player we missed on Saturday more than Ramsey then it was Ampadu. Not because of any deficiencies in the partnership between Smith and Allen (there weren't any), but because we could have done with some extra energy in the middle of the park late on to either replace one of the two, or to complement them. Our squad is stronger than it's ever been, but we could still do with plenty of cover in all positions.
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Post by manulike on Mar 27, 2019 21:12:58 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday? performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang someone needs to have a word with four eyes Sadly, I remember the BH tweeting that the Slovakia game is going to be the only one they can actually attend in this campaign ;-((
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Post by fireboy0610 on Mar 27, 2019 21:53:56 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday? performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang someone needs to have a word with four eyes Sadly, I remember the BH tweeting that the Slovakia game is going to be the only one they can actually attend in this campaign ;-(( I thought they were great on sunday, they tried to get the crowd going when the slovaks had alot of the ball. As your sad smile states phil they will be a big miss for the next 3 home games so we really need to get behind them for as much as the game as possible.
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Post by gwernybwch on Mar 27, 2019 22:16:17 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday? performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang someone needs to have a word with four eyes Didn't you know that it is "the all request show" on Sundays 2pm to 4pm? And I thought that I got annoyed by the simplest of things! Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at.
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Post by rushlegend on Mar 27, 2019 22:56:24 GMT
Well though both Lawrence and Mepham played, they were given a fairly easy ride, especially in the first half, by the equally impressive Allen and Smith. Lawrence was if anything the better of the two - certainly with his cross-field diagonals.
Mepham did make a couple of mistakes which could have led to goals. The first was where he was drawn to the right from a central position to an already marked Slovakian attacker, leaving the huge space for Rusnak, I think, to advance on goal unopposed, leading to Hennessey saving with his face. The second flaw, was how he allowed the Slovakian attacker across the front of him to head towards goal late on - leading to that fluffed chance from Hancko. So, very good, but by no means perfect.
Just looking at the positive contributions these lads made on Sunday Alarch
To be thrown together for the 1st time in the opening crucial match of the Euro 2020 campaign, i thought they were cool, calm and looked to have been together for years - i'm not been carried away but the way they stroked the ball around seemed natural to them both - considering they have won what 6 caps between them before the game i thought "wow" not the finished article of course not, they need to win at least 15/20 caps each but i've never seen a more defensive composed partnership in Welsh shirts against very decent opposition in an imprtant match - if it was a friendly then yes yet to be tested but in an atmosphere like that i was very impressed - yes they made a couple of errors but we did that in Bordeaux with an experienced pairing of Ash/Chester against same opposition, they were never going to be watertight as they were so inexperienced but thought there composure on the ball is better than (no offence) A Williams & Chester in all those matches together (50+?)
Together with Matt Smith who was MOM imo - what a future we have here!!!!!
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Post by donttakemehomebutt - Lobsy on Mar 29, 2019 21:52:58 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday? performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang someone needs to have a word with four eyes Sadly, I remember the BH tweeting that the Slovakia game is going to be the only one they can actually attend in this campaign ;-(( couldn't be happier
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Post by donttakemehomebutt - Lobsy on Mar 29, 2019 21:54:58 GMT
why were the barry horns sound like they were busking in the stadium on sunday? performing the rocky theme tune and hollywood swinging by kool & the gang someone needs to have a word with four eyes Didn't you know that it is "the all request show" on Sundays 2pm to 4pm? And I thought that I got annoyed by the simplest of things! Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at. "Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at." what you talk about? fair amount of effort to make racket at the back of canton playing now this is what I call music 34 they are shocking
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Post by larslagerback on Mar 30, 2019 15:49:42 GMT
Didn't you know that it is "the all request show" on Sundays 2pm to 4pm? And I thought that I got annoyed by the simplest of things! Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at. "Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at." what you talk about? fair amount of effort to make racket at the back of canton playing now this is what I call music 34 they are shocking Buy a ticket somewhere else?
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Post by manulike on Mar 30, 2019 20:59:09 GMT
Has anyone got a link to the full match stream somewhere? I can only find the extended 16 minute highlights ...
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Post by pendragon on Mar 30, 2019 23:36:54 GMT
Try S4C's I-player. Commentary might be in Welsh but maybe they have subtitles. I need to re-watch it on the screen too
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Post by manulike on Mar 30, 2019 23:41:20 GMT
Try S4C's I-player. Commentary might be in Welsh but maybe they have subtitles. I need to re-watch it on the screen too Good call. Thanks. NOTE ... IT EXPIRES SUNDAY AT 5PM ... so be fast about it ;-)
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Post by pendragon on Mar 30, 2019 23:44:26 GMT
Try S4C's I-player. Commentary might be in Welsh but maybe they have subtitles. I need to re-watch it on the screen too Good call. Thanks. NOTE ... IT EXPIRES SUNDAY AT 5PM ... so be fast about it ;-)
Thanks for the link! Expires on Sunday?! The UEFA Nations League matches were available for 1 month! 😠
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Post by manulike on Mar 31, 2019 13:58:59 GMT
Good call. Thanks. NOTE ... IT EXPIRES SUNDAY AT 5PM ... so be fast about it ;-)
Thanks for the link! Expires on Sunday?! The UEFA Nations League matches were available for 1 month! 😠 Forgive my poor Welsh skills, but it sounded to me that they named James Lawrence as MOM? Although, indeed, he was a revelation to me defensively (despite seeing him 6 or 7 times for Anderlecht) - I would have certainly given it to Matt Smith, who was everywhere.
Strange how the final 25 minutes that felt like forever at the CCS, didn't appear so bad on second viewing.
All in all, a decent result. With Rambo and Tom Lawrence in the team, it would have been even easier.
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Post by welshiron on Mar 31, 2019 22:07:02 GMT
Not sure who Lawrence will come in for.
Ramsey for James or Wilson
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Post by pendragon on Mar 31, 2019 23:58:31 GMT
Thanks for the link! Expires on Sunday?! The UEFA Nations League matches were available for 1 month! 😠 Forgive my poor Welsh skills, but it sounded to me that they named James Lawrence as MOM? Although, indeed, he was a revelation to me defensively (despite seeing him 6 or 7 times for Anderlecht) - I would have certainly given it to Matt Smith, who was everywhere.
Strange how the final 25 minutes that felt like forever at the CCS, didn't appear so bad on second viewing.
All in all, a decent result. With Rambo and Tom Lawrence in the team, it would have been even easier.
Would you believe, I missed the deadline manulike 😬😕😠 Saw the first ten minutes and that was it! I've heard they stick some old S4C progs on You Tube so I'll try and catch it there as I like watching the games via Sgorio. And will check who was named their MotM. To me, it was James. He was all over the pitch with his pace, middle, out wide etc. A few other standouts for me were Brooks, Allen, and Wilson. I found Lawrence, Roberts and Smith also impressive. I won't single out anyone for criticsm but will add that those who "could have done better" were Tyler, Ash and Bale (feels almost heretical to criticise the last two lol, but only did so because I noticed Bale concede possession a few times and Ash hasn't been as solid defensively, for me). What struck me from the footage (and the game) was we had many moments when we conceded possession (even during the first half), and I worry what a team of better quality could have done to us. What I will also add from the footage is, we were very pacey (detractors aside, it's one of the best features of the Giggs era to date in my opinion), and we also recovered possession most times. Our defence is much improved since the WCQs. It was apparent to me that we could have had more goals during the first 60 minutes, but that's the way of it sometimes. Also, people have made much of the stats but I'd pay them little mind. Even in Bordeaux, the stats were similar (42% possession). They were slightly improved to 44% in this game (UEFA). Even Denmark had less possession than we did at the CCS in November, which suggests that possession sometimes counts for little if nothing comes of it.
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Post by texan on Apr 1, 2019 12:11:52 GMT
...it sounded to me that they named James Lawrence as MOM? Owain Tudur Jones did name him MotM, however he did state it was between him and Matt Smith. He qualified his decision by stating that whilst Smith played fantastically well he did have Allen alongside to guide him, Lawrence on the other hand played the majority of the game alongside Mepham who was equally inexperienced. So Lawrence won his vote.
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Post by donttakemehomebutt - Lobsy on Apr 12, 2019 16:13:58 GMT
"Give them a break mate. I'm sure that it takes a fair amount of effort to get the standard that they are at." what you talk about? fair amount of effort to make racket at the back of canton playing now this is what I call music 34 they are shocking Buy a ticket somewhere else? , ive got a torunament ticket im not made of money
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Post by larslagerback on Apr 12, 2019 22:53:18 GMT
Buy a ticket somewhere else? , ive got a torunament ticket im not made of money So you bought a tournament ticket in or near the Canton and you're whingeing about the Barry Horns. Ok then.
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