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Post by welshwhite on Sept 3, 2022 19:50:59 GMT
It’s yet to hit though, the energy price cap goes up soon and will do again early next year. Winter will be the time of struggle when energy prices really become a factor. Housing data lags by a few months. Rents going up, interest rates going up, wages going down etc etc etc. Basically, we’re still in the calm before the storm at the moment. If the country falls into recession as expected and job losses start that’s when things are going to get pretty bleak. I agree with this point, many are in denial about the forthcoming situation, particularly the young who either don’t care that they’re headed for a life of debt, or to be blunt, are a little bit too stupid & self-absorbed to appreciate the gravity of what is upon us. Yes, I agree many people seem in denial and are yet to fully understand the impact of the increased energy charges, not just on themselves but on public services, commerce, on care home costs, etc. The media are not helping by insinuating that we are already in a cost of living crisis, quoting folk who cant feed their children and are going to food banks, only fans, or taking on multiple jobs. People are therefore thinking "this is not too bad, I still have plenty of spare cash, so I'm alright" The true cost of living crisis will kick in when the next two price cap rises materialise. I keep a close watch on my energy usage, I know it goes up 3x November to February, add in the huge price cap rise and it's a sobering thought. The cost of everything will sky rocket. Personally I don't see the young as being the biggest losers in this scenario. Young people seem to have this misconception of manageable debt, and will simply use their available income to cover essentials while putting everything else on a credit card. Long term this will come back to haunt them when they need legitimate cash loans like for a mortgage, or a car to commute to a new job. This strategy may well help them ride out the storm until energy prices fall, and things normalise, but it's not a healthy financial base to build on. The biggest losers will be those on fixed incomes, pensioners and those on disability benefits who cant absorb the hit on credit or work harder to pay the bills. Sadly there will be some very harrowing tabloid stories come January 2023. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 19:56:00 GMT
Without medical professionals a lot of people wouldn’t be alive to pay to watch footballers kicking a ball. The fact that footballers earn so much whilst some nurses and carers sleep in their cars is not necessarily a footballers fault, it does cast society in general in an ugly light though. It's just how things work. If we abolished the health care system and ran health care as independent business' then the pay would sharply go up as they'd be competing for the best staff. Would people be happy to pay £30,000 to give birth in a hospital though? Nurses do an amazing job but unfortunately it's not a well paying one. But comparing it to elite world class sport is a bit strange. We don’t have to do that though, we could invest more in skills with the aim of moving to a high wage high skill economy (that Boris promised us but had no intention of ever delivering, he wouldn’t know how to anyway) and then people would be higher tax payers amd we would have properly funded health services like other high tax economies like Denmark enjoy. The model in the U.K. however is to invest in nothing, run vital services on a shoe string and have 50% of the country working on a wage that is not far off poverty. Because we rarely produce anything of value most of our jobs are crap, low paid and service oriented requiring little in the way of intellectual capital. But unlike many other countries we charge workers to re-train which only exacerbates the problem. Why would you train to be a nurse when you know the “reward” is mountains of debt, unsociable work hours and poor pay? The only reason you might do that is to move abroad once you are qualified to a country where you will be valued a lot more highly and the weather and work life balance is better. The whole sorry lot has been run into the ground and the lack of skilled labour will kill us in terms of recovery when the recession hits. Britain is going to revert to being a developing economy in the next few years. My heart breaks for the people who didn’t choose this way but will be forced to endure the very painful consequences. |
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Post by welshwhite on Sept 3, 2022 20:11:56 GMT
It's just how things work. If we abolished the health care system and ran health care as independent business' then the pay would sharply go up as they'd be competing for the best staff. Would people be happy to pay £30,000 to give birth in a hospital though? Nurses do an amazing job but unfortunately it's not a well paying one. But comparing it to elite world class sport is a bit strange. We don’t have to do that though, we could invest more in skills with the aim of moving to a high wage high skill economy (that Boris promised us but had no intention of ever delivering, he wouldn’t know how to anyway) and then people would be higher tax payers amd we would have properly funded health services like other high tax economies like Denmark enjoy. The model in the U.K. however is to invest in nothing, run vital services on a shoe string and have 50% of the country working on a wage that is not far off poverty. Because we rarely produce anything of value most of our jobs are crap, low paid and service oriented requiring little in the way of intellectual capital. But unlike many other countries we charge workers to re-train which only exacerbates the problem. Why would you train to be a nurse when you know the “reward” is mountains of debt, unsociable work hours and poor pay? The only reason you might do that is to move abroad once you are qualified to a country where you will be valued a lot more highly and the weather and work life balance is better. The whole sorry lot has been run into the ground and the lack of skilled labour will kill us in terms of recovery. Believe me when I say, at least 50% of the NHS is already in private hands, and not just those fancy medical centres you may be lucky to have your GP refer you to for some simple diagnostics, the country has sleepwalked into this. You can see two healthcare professionals standing side by side, and one will be on 3/4x the salary of the other because of partial outsourcing. It's been going this way for several years now, and you can't blame people for wanting to jump ship to the dark side for financial reward, just like you can't blame health authorities for slashing training budgets to fund and feed the private sector. Long termism is not something public sector can afford, and administrators are too short term to want to invest in it. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 20:13:15 GMT
I agree with this point, many are in denial about the forthcoming situation, particularly the young who either don’t care that they’re headed for a life of debt, or to be blunt, are a little bit too stupid & self-absorbed to appreciate the gravity of what is upon us. Yes, I agree many people seem in denial and are yet to fully understand the impact of the increased energy charges, not just on themselves but on public services, commerce, on care home costs, etc. The media are not helping by insinuating that we are already in a cost of living crisis, quoting folk who cant feed their children and are going to food banks, only fans, or taking on multiple jobs. People are therefore thinking "this is not too bad, I still have plenty of spare cash, so I'm alright" The true cost of living crisis will kick in when the next two price cap rises materialise. I keep a close watch on my energy usage, I know it goes up 3x November to February, add in the huge price cap rise and it's a sobering thought. The cost of everything will sky rocket. Personally I don't see the young as being the biggest losers in this scenario. Young people seem to have this misconception of manageable debt, and will simply use their available income to cover essentials while putting everything else on a credit card. Long term this will come back to haunt them when they need legitimate cash loans like for a mortgage, or a car to commute to a new job. This strategy may well help them ride out the storm until energy prices fall, and things normalise, but it's not a healthy financial base to build on. The biggest losers will be those on fixed incomes, pensioners and those on disability benefits who cant absorb the hit on credit or work harder to pay the bills. Sadly there will be some very harrowing tabloid stories come January 2023. Some good points there but I wouldn’t be as confident in credit cards because the cost of credit is going to go up massively over the next few months on top of everything else. The BOE have been asleep at the wheel the last year hoping this will all blow over and letting the dollar reach parity with the pound which can’t really be a situation that is allowed to go on much longer as we rely so heavily on imports due to producing little of value ourselves. So credit will become an expensive panacea to service debt in other areas, especially if people start lumping on multiple hundred fat energy bills on to it. It will be heat or eat, not both. And yeah I agree with the general view that I don’t think people are quite prepared for how serious and bad this could get. The good news: hmm…well, there will be a World Cup on TV if you can afford to switch it on. I feel so bad for the young, they have been truly shafted and it’s a complete disgrace |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 20:23:21 GMT
We don’t have to do that though, we could invest more in skills with the aim of moving to a high wage high skill economy (that Boris promised us but had no intention of ever delivering, he wouldn’t know how to anyway) and then people would be higher tax payers amd we would have properly funded health services like other high tax economies like Denmark enjoy. The model in the U.K. however is to invest in nothing, run vital services on a shoe string and have 50% of the country working on a wage that is not far off poverty. Because we rarely produce anything of value most of our jobs are crap, low paid and service oriented requiring little in the way of intellectual capital. But unlike many other countries we charge workers to re-train which only exacerbates the problem. Why would you train to be a nurse when you know the “reward” is mountains of debt, unsociable work hours and poor pay? The only reason you might do that is to move abroad once you are qualified to a country where you will be valued a lot more highly and the weather and work life balance is better. The whole sorry lot has been run into the ground and the lack of skilled labour will kill us in terms of recovery. Believe me when I say, at least 50% of the NHS is already in private hands, and not just those fancy medical centres you may be lucky to have your GP refer you to for some simple diagnostics, the country has sleepwalked into this. You can see two healthcare professionals standing side by side, and one will be on 3/4x the salary of the other because of partial outsourcing. It's been going this way for several years now, and you can't blame people for wanting to jump ship to the dark side for financial reward, just like you can't blame health authorities for slashing training budgets to fund and feed the private sector. Long termism is not something public sector can afford, and administrators are too short term to want to invest in it. Oh I never said I did blame them- anyone who goes abroad to escape this dumpster fire I wholeheartedly applaud them. They are socking it to the government by taking their labour away where it will reward them more. That’s the only power the young proletariat have left really: get vital skills this country needs and take them abroad whilst flicking the V’s as you go. I was speaking to a young colleague the other day, she has already moved 3 hours away from her family because of unaffordable housing where she lives and she is realising that there is no affordable housing in the city where we both work, so she is looking at having to move even either away from where her family and friends are just to have some breathing room between her income and her essential costs. It’s an utter ****ing disgrace and I urged her to move abroad if she can, but Brexit has made captives out of young people. Chained to the yoke for the rest of their lives servicing the economic and political debt run up by her parents generation. And yeah I’m hearing more and more from those within the NHS that it’s already relying heavily on private industry. We just don’t have the funding model of the US in place yet but that’s what I see some people saying the ultimate goal of the Tory party is: to run it into the ground *on purpose* so that the electorate are turned against the funding model and are ready to accept US style employment linked insurance. We’re so stupid it will probably work. |
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Post by welshwhite on Sept 3, 2022 20:40:18 GMT
Believe me when I say, at least 50% of the NHS is already in private hands, and not just those fancy medical centres you may be lucky to have your GP refer you to for some simple diagnostics, the country has sleepwalked into this. You can see two healthcare professionals standing side by side, and one will be on 3/4x the salary of the other because of partial outsourcing. It's been going this way for several years now, and you can't blame people for wanting to jump ship to the dark side for financial reward, just like you can't blame health authorities for slashing training budgets to fund and feed the private sector. Long termism is not something public sector can afford, and administrators are too short term to want to invest in it. Oh I never said I did blame them- anyone who goes abroad to escape this dumpster fire I wholeheartedly applaud them. They are socking it to the government by taking their labour away where it will reward them more. That’s the only power the young proletariat have left really: get vital skills this country needs and take them abroad whilst flicking the V’s as you go. I was speaking to a young colleague the other day, she has already moved 3 hours away from her family because of unaffordable housing where she lives and she is realising that there is no affordable housing in the city where we both work, so she is looking at having to move even either away from where her family and friends are just to have some breathing room between her income and her essential costs. It’s an utter ****ing disgrace and I urged her to move abroad if she can, but Brexit has made captives out of young people. Chained to the yoke for the rest of their lives servicing the economic and political debt run up by her parents generation. And yeah I’m hearing more and more from those within the NHS that it’s already relying heavily on private industry. We just don’t have the funding model of the US in place yet but that’s what I see some people saying the ultimate goal of the Tory party is: to run it into the ground *on purpose* so that the electorate are turned against the funding model and are ready to accept US style employment linked insurance. We’re so stupid it will probably work. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but healthcare professionals no longer have to move to the other side of the world, they can simply sign up with a private provider to triple their income. Again this is short termism all round, when the health care system becomes completely private, they can forget this level of remuneration from their employers, it's just to get a foot in the door for those bstds. Affordable housing is another issue that makes my blood boil, another topic entirely. But all these things have an impact on the affordability of football and funding particularly of lower league football. |
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Post by underwood on Sept 3, 2022 21:29:28 GMT
There’s more social conscience evident in this thread than there has been in over a decade’s worth of Conservative cabinets.
Not surprising as a Welsh Football fan will be about as far removed from a Tory minister as you could get.
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 3, 2022 22:55:39 GMT
I wonder if a global recession/depression will see demand for TV subscriptions, matchday tickets and the latest kits fall, leading to reduced TV deals, smaller matchday revenue and a subsequent reduction in player wages.
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 23:25:51 GMT
There’s more social conscience evident in this thread than there has been in over a decade’s worth of Conservative cabinets. Not surprising as a Welsh Football fan will be about as far removed from a Tory minister as you could get. To bring it back to Welsh football “Together Stronger” should be the motto of the country and the core principle every government abides by. A rising tide should lift all boats but what we have currently is just the yachts being lifted. It’s criminal. The land is completely broken because of the greed of people who can never get enough. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 23:27:58 GMT
I wonder if a global recession/depression will see demand for TV subscriptions, matchday tickets and the latest kits fall, leading to reduced TV deals, smaller matchday revenue and a subsequent reduction in player wages. It’s possible but it would have to be truly global due to the amount of money coming from the rights deals with other countries, that’s the biggest proportion of income for the premier clubs I believe. I reckon, like housing, somehow football will be impervious to the cost of living. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2022 23:32:17 GMT
Oh I never said I did blame them- anyone who goes abroad to escape this dumpster fire I wholeheartedly applaud them. They are socking it to the government by taking their labour away where it will reward them more. That’s the only power the young proletariat have left really: get vital skills this country needs and take them abroad whilst flicking the V’s as you go. I was speaking to a young colleague the other day, she has already moved 3 hours away from her family because of unaffordable housing where she lives and she is realising that there is no affordable housing in the city where we both work, so she is looking at having to move even either away from where her family and friends are just to have some breathing room between her income and her essential costs. It’s an utter ****ing disgrace and I urged her to move abroad if she can, but Brexit has made captives out of young people. Chained to the yoke for the rest of their lives servicing the economic and political debt run up by her parents generation. And yeah I’m hearing more and more from those within the NHS that it’s already relying heavily on private industry. We just don’t have the funding model of the US in place yet but that’s what I see some people saying the ultimate goal of the Tory party is: to run it into the ground *on purpose* so that the electorate are turned against the funding model and are ready to accept US style employment linked insurance. We’re so stupid it will probably work. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but healthcare professionals no longer have to move to the other side of the world, they can simply sign up with a private provider to triple their income. Again this is short termism all round, when the health care system becomes completely private, they can forget this level of remuneration from their employers, it's just to get a foot in the door for those bstds. Affordable housing is another issue that makes my blood boil, another topic entirely. But all these things have an impact on the affordability of football and funding particularly of lower league football. Private health work is currently of minimal utility isn’t it because a lot of work is ultimately done by the NHS apart from certain things you can go private for? In other words it’s not an industry teeming with jobs in the same way that the NHS is desperate for staff. I could be wrong there but the average city is not inundated with private health clinics. Hopefully you get what I mean! |
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Post by welshrover on Sept 4, 2022 6:11:06 GMT
There’s more social conscience evident in this thread than there has been in over a decade’s worth of Conservative cabinets. Not surprising as a Welsh Football fan will be about as far removed from a Tory minister as you could get. Mate, when I posted my initial post the one thing I didn't want to do was invoke a political bashing frenzy. I was merely looking for people's observations etc on the current situation. There have been some interesting replies, let's leave the Labour / Conservative / Plaid arguments on a political forum please. As a pensioner I am one of the people quoted "on a fixed income" and must admit I am becoming very "switch it off if not using it" minded. If you believe the headline figures more than half a state pensioner's income could go just on power. Yes, I am very concerned about it but the evidence I see on a daily basis is that not a lot of people appear to be worrying, which brings us back to as posters previously have said "people burying their collective heads in the sand". |
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Post by hc16040 on Sept 4, 2022 13:57:57 GMT
Just some notes I'll add to the overall situation to explain how truly f*cked we all are. Even leaving the country isn't a good solution as many other places are struggling. Personally given the money made in the premier league ive got no problem with the players actually providing the product getting a fair share.
-Russia burning up all its reserves to sustain a semblance of an economy
-Power shortages so bad in China due to drought that even the underground have had to dim lights. A lot of manufacturing has shut down.
-Massive floods in Pakistan displacing millions and destroying 95% of crops
-Germany has only stored about 80% of the energy reserves to "survive" the winter
-Some of the major banks, most noteably Credit Suisse have been taking huge losses and are teatering on the brink of collapse. Would potentially be equal to the 2008 financial crash if they go down.
Buckle in guys, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
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Post by welrus on Sept 4, 2022 15:47:43 GMT
Just some notes I'll add to the overall situation to explain how truly f*cked we all are. Even leaving the country isn't a good solution as many other places are struggling. Personally given the money made in the premier league ive got no problem with the players actually providing the product getting a fair share. -Russia burning up all its reserves to sustain a semblance of an economy -Power shortages so bad in China due to drought that even the underground have had to dim lights. A lot of manufacturing has shut down. -Massive floods in Pakistan displacing millions and destroying 95% of crops -Germany has only stored about 80% of the energy reserves to "survive" the winter -Some of the major banks, most noteably Credit Suisse have been taking huge losses and are teatering on the brink of collapse. Would potentially be equal to the 2008 financial crash if they go down. Buckle in guys, it's going to be a bumpy ride. - That’s a pretty sound list but I hesitate to add one very British thing, and that’s Brexit. Whatever your views on the merits of Brexit from a purely economic position there is no doubt Brexit is economically damaging. All the stats show that, and so arguably, we’re in a worse position than most to ride the storm. Coupled with poor past long term decisions made by all flavours of government. All political leaders say we need growth - but few of them go onto explain how they will deliver that. |
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Post by welshwhite on Sept 4, 2022 17:01:08 GMT
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but healthcare professionals no longer have to move to the other side of the world, they can simply sign up with a private provider to triple their income. Again this is short termism all round, when the health care system becomes completely private, they can forget this level of remuneration from their employers, it's just to get a foot in the door for those bstds. Affordable housing is another issue that makes my blood boil, another topic entirely. But all these things have an impact on the affordability of football and funding particularly of lower league football. Private health work is currently of minimal utility isn’t it because a lot of work is ultimately done by the NHS apart from certain things you can go private for? In other words it’s not an industry teeming with jobs in the same way that the NHS is desperate for staff. I could be wrong there but the average city is not inundated with private health clinics. Hopefully you get what I mean! We are not talking about the American healthcare model just yet. Privatisation is already endemic within NHS institutions that we all frequent regularly, without knowing. The way this thing is playing out is much more pernicious Large parts of the NHS have been contracted out to the private sector for years, porters, catering, cleaning, for example, along with some secretarial and administrative jobs, which have in some cases gone virtually abroad. However it's now happening in clinical roles. In my area, which is pretty specialised, it's about 50/50. Some of us are old school NHS contracted diehards. Many of my colleagues though are employed through private healthcare providers and are typically on 2/3 times the salary of their respective NHS counterpart (me), more if they work out of normal hours. Management like this because it's a short term way of reducing waiting lists and hitting their targets, but is a self perpetuating scenario, where funding is consequently no longer available for training but more importantly imo a reduction in dedicated training officers to mentor students. So the end result is a boom time for the private sector to the detriment of dedicated NHS staff training pathways. You only need look at the PPE fiasco for an illustration of how right minded thinking can be steamrolled for the benefit of private enterprise and profit within an institution where profit should be anathema, but now seems acceptable. You might wonder how this affects football, factor in the cost of energy this winter, along with higher national insurance to pay for the cost of partially privately provided healthcare, many lower league clubs will feel the pinch as gate money and local sponsorship dwindles. Apart from football there will be cost in human misery to come, sorry but that's my feeling, I don't trust this London centric Government to feel the pain of the dispossessed minority. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Sept 4, 2022 19:08:40 GMT
It's just how things work. If we abolished the health care system and ran health care as independent business' then the pay would sharply go up as they'd be competing for the best staff. Would people be happy to pay £30,000 to give birth in a hospital though? Nurses do an amazing job but unfortunately it's not a well paying one. But comparing it to elite world class sport is a bit strange. We don’t have to do that though, we could invest more in skills with the aim of moving to a high wage high skill economy (that Boris promised us but had no intention of ever delivering, he wouldn’t know how to anyway) and then people would be higher tax payers amd we would have properly funded health services like other high tax economies like Denmark enjoy. The model in the U.K. however is to invest in nothing, run vital services on a shoe string and have 50% of the country working on a wage that is not far off poverty. Because we rarely produce anything of value most of our jobs are crap, low paid and service oriented requiring little in the way of intellectual capital. But unlike many other countries we charge workers to re-train which only exacerbates the problem. Why would you train to be a nurse when you know the “reward” is mountains of debt, unsociable work hours and poor pay? The only reason you might do that is to move abroad once you are qualified to a country where you will be valued a lot more highly and the weather and work life balance is better. The whole sorry lot has been run into the ground and the lack of skilled labour will kill us in terms of recovery when the recession hits. Britain is going to revert to being a developing economy in the next few years. My heart breaks for the people who didn’t choose this way but will be forced to endure the very painful consequences. Interesting that you say that, there was an economist that said similar last month - www.cnbc.com/2022/08/09/britain-is-becoming-an-emerging-market-country-analyst-says.htmlNot everyone thinks (or realises) that things are about to go tits up. My credit card has just offered me a £2k cash advance on 12 months interest free. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 4, 2022 20:13:03 GMT
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Post by hc16040 on Sept 4, 2022 22:17:11 GMT
This seems like he's just upset the club is increasing it's commercial nature to gain on pitch success. Honestly doesn't seem like he's got a point regarding anything regarding the owners having done anything nefarious. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 5, 2022 11:06:43 GMT
This seems like he's just upset the club is increasing it's commercial nature to gain on pitch success. Honestly doesn't seem like he's got a point regarding anything regarding the owners having done anything nefarious. Yeah I tend to agree, they should bring success to the pitch which is good for the town and their fans |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Sept 5, 2022 15:07:51 GMT
We mustn't forget there was plenty of criticism of the Trust (Board) when we ran the club as well. Wrexham wouldn't be where they are today without the yanks financial backing, and from what I remember of those times, we were beginning to struggle both on and off the pitch.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 5, 2022 17:42:45 GMT
We'd be playing in the National League North under fan ownership. It all became incredibly toxic. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 5, 2022 17:44:02 GMT
This seems like he's just upset the club is increasing it's commercial nature to gain on pitch success. Honestly doesn't seem like he's got a point regarding anything regarding the owners having done anything nefarious. Yeah I tend to agree, they should bring success to the pitch which is good for the town and their fans Pubs are opening left right and centre in Wrexham, in what other towns or cities could you say that right now? These actors are the best thing to ever happen to the town (or city) let alone the club. |
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Post by hc16040 on Sept 5, 2022 19:14:51 GMT
Yeah I tend to agree, they should bring success to the pitch which is good for the town and their fans Pubs are opening left right and centre in Wrexham, in what other towns or cities could you say that right now? These actors are the best thing to ever happen to the town (or city) let alone the club. But the writer is clearly somewhere between socialist and communist therefore anyone rich owning anything of societal value is going to be seen as a negative, regardless of the owners actual intentions. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 5, 2022 19:24:11 GMT
Yeah I tend to agree, they should bring success to the pitch which is good for the town and their fans Pubs are opening left right and centre in Wrexham, in what other towns or cities could you say that right now? These actors are the best thing to ever happen to the town (or city) let alone the club. I don't disagree with you |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 5, 2022 21:20:43 GMT
Pubs are opening left right and centre in Wrexham, in what other towns or cities could you say that right now? These actors are the best thing to ever happen to the town (or city) let alone the club. I don't disagree with you Yeah was adding to your point more than providing a counterpoint. I'm incredibly passionate about my hometown and these actors have given me faith that things can actually get better. Appreciate we're incredibly lucky though. |
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 5, 2022 22:28:15 GMT
It's just how things work. If we abolished the health care system and ran health care as independent business' then the pay would sharply go up as they'd be competing for the best staff. Would people be happy to pay £30,000 to give birth in a hospital though? Nurses do an amazing job but unfortunately it's not a well paying one. But comparing it to elite world class sport is a bit strange. We don’t have to do that though, we could invest more in skills with the aim of moving to a high wage high skill economy (that Boris promised us but had no intention of ever delivering, he wouldn’t know how to anyway) and then people would be higher tax payers amd we would have properly funded health services like other high tax economies like Denmark enjoy. The model in the U.K. however is to invest in nothing, run vital services on a shoe string and have 50% of the country working on a wage that is not far off poverty. Because we rarely produce anything of value most of our jobs are crap, low paid and service oriented requiring little in the way of intellectual capital. But unlike many other countries we charge workers to re-train which only exacerbates the problem. Why would you train to be a nurse when you know the “reward” is mountains of debt, unsociable work hours and poor pay? The only reason you might do that is to move abroad once you are qualified to a country where you will be valued a lot more highly and the weather and work life balance is better. The whole sorry lot has been run into the ground and the lack of skilled labour will kill us in terms of recovery when the recession hits. Britain is going to revert to being a developing economy in the next few years. My heart breaks for the people who didn’t choose this way but will be forced to endure the very painful consequences. Being completely honest I just assumed nursing staff, and health care in general, people did it because they want to help others. Completely agree with the country being in a mess. I can't see what the trigger point that'll change it will be either. |
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Post by mikejones on Sept 7, 2022 10:45:56 GMT
First, I'm sympathetic to the idea that professional sports clubs should be community or fan owned. Spectator sports isn't a normal business, because identity and history is part of the product being sold, not a car or washing machine. That said, I think it's a bit unfair to claim that the new owners are using an astroturfed version of Welsh identity as a marketing niche to make a profit. First, speaking as an American, the English brand (or maybe British) is what sells soccer overseas. Marketing the brand as Welsh is probably what they figure the club supporters would prefer. I don't think they have ulterior motives beyond that. |
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Post by mikejones on Sept 7, 2022 10:54:45 GMT
We are playing percentages here, many lower league players will never make a career out of football, and frankly these lads should get paid enough in the short term to at least last them until they find another way to pay the bills. I remember a 17 year old welsh lad Callum King-Harmes, one of the few we still had on our books at Bolton after most professionals went walkabout or on strike. Worked his fkn arse off, kept this famous old club alive, now at Bromsgrove Sporting (?!!), No I don't know either. I'm a health care professional, work hard, but have a guaranteed regular income, most of these lads don't. Some won't even have a future. But the counter argument is that you provide a necessary service to your community, a footballer that far down the pyramid patently doesn’t. Their value is to themselves mostly. It’s a hobby they might make a few extra quid from. So what right do they have to earn a decent living from what is a frivolity in front of sparse crowds? Any increase to their wage might suck much needed expertise from the local community into the cusp of the pro game hoping they might make a success of a long shot, in the same way plenty of skilled people Jack their local jobs in and head off to London hoping to make it big in banking only to be chewed up and spat out again to the detriment of society. It's not everyday that you hear a completely new argument. You're suggesting that minor league pro athletes should be low paid, because otherwise it would suck people from more productive pursuits into a "frivolity?" Like we are misallocating human resources as a society? Is that correct? In the US Minor League Baseball players just voted to unionize. I think that's a good thing as hopefully some of the obscene money from the Major Leagues will trickle down to them. I'm for more people making a decent living. Minor League baseball isn't going away. Neither is lower league British soccer. Might as well have the people down there getting paid. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 7, 2022 14:44:21 GMT
But the counter argument is that you provide a necessary service to your community, a footballer that far down the pyramid patently doesn’t. Their value is to themselves mostly. It’s a hobby they might make a few extra quid from. So what right do they have to earn a decent living from what is a frivolity in front of sparse crowds? Any increase to their wage might suck much needed expertise from the local community into the cusp of the pro game hoping they might make a success of a long shot, in the same way plenty of skilled people Jack their local jobs in and head off to London hoping to make it big in banking only to be chewed up and spat out again to the detriment of society. It's not everyday that you hear a completely new argument. You're suggesting that minor league pro athletes should be low paid, because otherwise it would suck people from more productive pursuits into a "frivolity?" Like we are misallocating human resources as a society? Is that correct? In the US Minor League Baseball players just voted to unionize. I think that's a good thing as hopefully some of the obscene money from the Major Leagues will trickle down to them. I'm for more people making a decent living. Minor League baseball isn't going away. Neither is lower league British soccer. Might as well have the people down there getting paid. I’m saying there has to be a balance in every aspect of an economy otherwise there is the danger of making the most key jobs unattractive because people can earn better wages doing jobs that benefit society nowhere near as much. We’re seeing it right now where we have a chronic lack of nurses because there are jobs that are far easier and pay much better. Case in point when I was working as a self employed, self taught programmer, building websites that were fairly frivolous in nature, a cushy, 9-5 life working from home, meanwhile my old dear was working for a low wage inundated with calls to the police and all the emotional stress that brings. Anti-social shifts, working at Christmas etch Colleagues of hers would regularly need counselling. They can’t get staff anymore because it just doesn’t pay. It’s ridiculous. There is no way I should have been earning more than her comparing the value to society of the work we both were doing. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 7, 2022 19:47:08 GMT
It's not everyday that you hear a completely new argument. You're suggesting that minor league pro athletes should be low paid, because otherwise it would suck people from more productive pursuits into a "frivolity?" Like we are misallocating human resources as a society? Is that correct? In the US Minor League Baseball players just voted to unionize. I think that's a good thing as hopefully some of the obscene money from the Major Leagues will trickle down to them. I'm for more people making a decent living. Minor League baseball isn't going away. Neither is lower league British soccer. Might as well have the people down there getting paid. I’m saying there has to be a balance in every aspect of an economy otherwise there is the danger of making the most key jobs unattractive because people can earn better wages doing jobs that benefit society nowhere near as much. We’re seeing it right now where we have a chronic lack of nurses because there are jobs that are far easier and pay much better. Case in point when I was working as a self employed, self taught programmer, building websites that were fairly frivolous in nature, a cushy, 9-5 life working from home, meanwhile my old dear was working for a low wage inundated with calls to the police and all the emotional stress that brings. Anti-social shifts, working at Christmas etch Colleagues of hers would regularly need counselling. They can’t get staff anymore because it just doesn’t pay. It’s ridiculous. There is no way I should have been earning more than her comparing the value to society of the work we both were doing. Not many people can programme, lots of people can answer the phone. Ergo you were paid more. Before we talk about demand. |
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