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Post by conwy10 on Nov 29, 2022 21:50:20 GMT
I think I seen today he's got 8 goals in 14 matches. Do you think maybe when you wanted him dropped it was too early at that point. I know he doesn't offer much but who else is going to score without him? Moore is the only one who seems capable. Don’t ask me ask everyone who thinks we could have got out of this group just by changing the manager. If Bale has got 8 in 14 then that says it all about the state of things at the moment. I'm just saying I see Bale as the solution, not the problem. It's like playing with 10 men, but no one else can score so he has to play or we won't win. Forget England I wouldn't trust anyone to score against Gibraltar let alone at a World Cup. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Nov 29, 2022 21:53:23 GMT
I'm not defending Page, I think him mentioning hamstrings is a poor look but my England mates are laughing at the quality of player we have and they have got a point. You could put Guardiola in charge of that lot and the outcome wouldn't be much different especially when you start from the back with a keeper that is an absolute embarrassment. We've then got league two players on the bench so a sense of perspective about the state of the current playing pool has to be taken into consideration along with criticism of the manager. From reading the comments on here the last few days (particularly the bollocks in the debate about whether this lot is better than 2016) you'd be forgiven for thinking we were well placed at this world cup. We basically only got here because two of the old guard produced rabbits from hats to get us through the play offs. People have been blind for at least a year over the abilities of Ramsey and Bale at the top level. All of a sudden it's like "Oh fuck, they're past it!". Well duh! Me and a few others were on about dropping Bale months back and we got ridiculed. To be fair he did help to get us here but there has definitely been a lack of succession planning along the way that has finally caught up with us and that is on Page but ably assisted by the fans who wouldn't have a bad word said about Bale when it's been obvious for a while that he has offered less and less and less as time has gone on. Actually an astute manager WOULD have got us out of this average group YES. Page has got his tactics WRONG and his selections WRONG. were heading home with a single penalty to our names and a MINUS 5 goal difference. Without even looking like winning a game. You can’t tell me a better manager wouldn’t have done better ffs 🤦♀️ Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. |
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Post by scarfer on Nov 29, 2022 22:07:53 GMT
I know many will be downbeat about our performances here in the WC, but we have done extremely well to reach 3 tournaments out of the past 4.
compare us to in the euros in 2016...Bale was playing regularly for Real, Allen was on the cusp of leaving Liverpool to play regularly for Stoke, Rambo was playing regularly for Arsenal...we had a team on the up. Now, we have youngsters with better quality coming through, being taught by the players who were at their prime when our country was at their first tournament in 58 years!! the likes of Neco, Rubin, Brennan etc, will learn a lot from Gareth, Aaron, Joe Allen etc.
I think this performance at the WC has brought us back to where we should be. in France we enjoyed excellent performances, and we got out of our group in the last euros...we have been excelling greatly recently. there's nothing wrong with not replicating previous performances where we excelled. our population is small, compared to all the opponent's we faced in this group. I believe that gives us a disadvantage - and no one is at fault. it's just the way things are. we have been brilliant in recent years...our time of reaching knockout stage football has ended for now. someone has to come last in their group, it was bound to be us at some point if we were to keep reaching the heights of getting to major tournaments.
I am extremely proud of what we have achieved, and will be a part of the crowd for the next qualification campaign.
CYMRU AM BYTH.
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 29, 2022 22:15:50 GMT
Actually an astute manager WOULD have got us out of this average group YES. Page has got his tactics WRONG and his selections WRONG. were heading home with a single penalty to our names and a MINUS 5 goal difference. Without even looking like winning a game. You can’t tell me a better manager wouldn’t have done better ffs 🤦♀️ Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. As I’ve been saying for the past week mate Page should have changed the tactics ( 5 at the back wasn’t working) AND his selection ( zero energy and legs in midfield) instead he stuck ( as he always does) with his tried and trusted. His loyalty or lack of leadership has cost us. We’ve looked like the most unfit side in the tournament ffs. A more astute manager definitely would have got us out of this average group. |
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Post by scarfer on Nov 29, 2022 22:19:33 GMT
now, as for tonight's performance...
firstly, their FK that they scored from shouldn't have been given. but, they probably would've won anyway.
I find it annoying that referees give in to players that deceive them just because they have a rough tumble. I'd happily see more referees let more believable dives go without any intervention if it meant the flow of the game was maintained. or, even use VAR if the referee feels he didn't have a clear view of the incident.
we held our own in the 1st half v well. you could see we just didn't have the quality to break their defence down, and thats fine...it just shows our level. 2nd half, England just taught us a hard lesson - not to drop too deep & panic. our back line was broken down a few times after the 2nd goal...we looked under the cosh. we had a few half-chances thereafter in-between them scoring their third and FT. We were lucky not to lose by 4. I feel though that it does not replicate a poor performance from us, but England's sheer quality.
compare our subs...we had the likes of Morrell (struggling to break into a league 1 side), Vs the likes of Wilson, Maddison, TAA...you cannot compete with that when you're in our position. I mean no disrespect to Morrell or anyone else playing in L1 either - I'm just using them as a comparison.
the 1st 45mins of our WC campaign wrecked us tbh. if we had played our hearts out in the 1st half of the USA match, I think we'd be extremely unfortunate to find ourselves in the position we are today.
oh well, now time to push for the Euros in 24!!!
CYMRU AM BYTH
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Post by insertname on Nov 29, 2022 22:20:29 GMT
Actually an astute manager WOULD have got us out of this average group YES. Page has got his tactics WRONG and his selections WRONG. were heading home with a single penalty to our names and a MINUS 5 goal difference. Without even looking like winning a game. You can’t tell me a better manager wouldn’t have done better ffs 🤦♀️ Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. That’s my issue: everyone criticises Page but no-one commits to who they would have picked who was better or how they would have organised the team to get results. I get pissed off with it, it’s the same at club level when you see that the team is shite but the fans still single out the manager because it’s an easy target. At least at club level the manager is directly responsible usually for the players that are brought in. I need nothing other than my eyes to tell me that the players we have got at the moment were maybe good enough to get a result against some decent European sides and get us to a finals. Now we are here their poor club form going into the tournament has been ruthlessly exposed. We could change the manager but they’d still have a job on their hands coaching this lot to string enough passes together to be able to do enough to qualify. Given our history the sensible challenge at the start of the campaign was just to qualify and we achieved that and I’m sure most fans would have been happy with that as the outcome. |
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Post by insertname on Nov 29, 2022 22:24:59 GMT
Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. As I’ve been saying for the past week mate Page should have changed the tactics ( 5 at the back wasn’t working) AND his selection ( zero energy and legs in midfield) instead he stuck ( as he always does) with his tried and trusted. His loyalty or lack of leadership has cost us. We’ve looked like the most unfit side in the tournament ffs. A more astute manager definitely would have got us out of this average group. Who should he have brought in? Starting James and Johnson was the obvious choice but both of them played against Iran and were poor. We have very few players outside the core group of 13 or 14 or so and none of those 13 or 14 have been in good form going into the tournament or have looked particularly good even on an individual level. We look bereft of inspiration from the dug out to the pitch. This tournament was a step too far and it’s worrying how bare the cupboard is in terms of talent going forward. James, Johnson, Mepham, Rodon, Ampadu etc all not as good as people on here think they are, when being brutally honest. The keeper situation is a dog’s dinner for whoever the manager is for the next campaign to sort out. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 29, 2022 22:26:14 GMT
Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. That’s my issue: everyone criticises Page but no-one commits to who they would have picked who was better or how they would have organised the team to get results. I get pissed off with it, it’s the same at club level when you see that the team is shite but the fans still single out the manager because it’s an easy target. At least at club level the manager is directly responsible usually for the players that are brought in. I need nothing other than my eyes to tell me that the players we have got at the moment were maybe good enough to get a result against some decent European sides and get us to a finals. Now we are here their poor club form going into the tournament has been ruthlessly exposed. We could change the manager but they’d still have a job on their hands coaching this lot to string enough passes together to be able to do enough to qualify. Given our history the sensible challenge at the start of the campaign was just to qualify and we achieved that and I’m sure most fans would have been happy with that as the outcome. I’ve said umpteen times that we had no legs in midfield no energy and no tempo yet Page kept on and kept on with the same tactics and same selection. The USA showed what could be achieved when you press England with energy yet we look so unfit with shambolic tactics.if your happy after the 3 shit shows we’ve witnessed then good for you. I for one are not. We had a decent chance to get out of this average group and I believe with a better manager and better tactics we would have. |
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Post by Exile Jack on Nov 29, 2022 22:36:44 GMT
Page has to go for the sake of Ampadu, Neco, Johnson & Colwill. He plays to absolutely nobody's strengths and as said above, his tactical nouse sees us hanging on for dear life from the first whistle. Mentioning Colwill is absurd,do'se he play every week, |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 29, 2022 22:45:24 GMT
Page has to go for the sake of Ampadu, Neco, Johnson & Colwill. He plays to absolutely nobody's strengths and as said above, his tactical nouse sees us hanging on for dear life from the first whistle. Mentioning Colwill is absurd,do'se he play every week, Colwill has looked between good and excellent in every appearance for Wales, and it's clear to Page that club gametime doesn't matter. Not sure what bashing him achieves here, let's not let club prejudices get in the way. |
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Post by freddyboioi on Nov 29, 2022 22:45:27 GMT
We held our own in qualifying against teams deemed the level of USA and Iran at least. Our performances in the World Cup have been so empty and negative. No pressure or creativity and a massive gap in centre midfield. It’s been shambolic and amateur. I watched Canada play with envy.
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 29, 2022 22:51:10 GMT
Page has to go for the sake of Ampadu, Neco, Johnson & Colwill. He plays to absolutely nobody's strengths and as said above, his tactical nouse sees us hanging on for dear life from the first whistle. Mentioning Colwill is absurd,do'se he play every week, Under the current regime it doesn't matter how often someone plays, if at all. Right now he's giving a good account of himself, he's got energy and a direct style of play which is what we're fucking crying out for. If he keeps it up, he could be a nice replacement for Rambo. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 29, 2022 22:52:07 GMT
Actually an astute manager WOULD have got us out of this average group YES. Page has got his tactics WRONG and his selections WRONG. were heading home with a single penalty to our names and a MINUS 5 goal difference. Without even looking like winning a game. You can’t tell me a better manager wouldn’t have done better ffs 🤦♀️ Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. Do you think Iran ( who the majority play in the Qatar league) have better players than us? |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 29, 2022 23:30:47 GMT
Losing Neco at the end of the first half and then conceding a goal to a free kick that wasn't a free kick so early in the second half did us for six and before we could recover we comically tried to knock it about at the back rather than keep it tight and simple and within the space of less than a minute the game was effectively over.
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Post by insertname on Nov 29, 2022 23:49:48 GMT
That’s my issue: everyone criticises Page but no-one commits to who they would have picked who was better or how they would have organised the team to get results. I get pissed off with it, it’s the same at club level when you see that the team is shite but the fans still single out the manager because it’s an easy target. At least at club level the manager is directly responsible usually for the players that are brought in. I need nothing other than my eyes to tell me that the players we have got at the moment were maybe good enough to get a result against some decent European sides and get us to a finals. Now we are here their poor club form going into the tournament has been ruthlessly exposed. We could change the manager but they’d still have a job on their hands coaching this lot to string enough passes together to be able to do enough to qualify. Given our history the sensible challenge at the start of the campaign was just to qualify and we achieved that and I’m sure most fans would have been happy with that as the outcome. I’ve said umpteen times that we had no legs in midfield no energy and no tempo yet Page kept on and kept on with the same tactics and same selection. The USA showed what could be achieved when you press England with energy yet we look so unfit with shambolic tactics.if your happy after the 3 shit shows we’ve witnessed then good for you. I for one are not. We had a decent chance to get out of this average group and I believe with a better manager and better tactics we would have. Who are the legs you would have brought in? There is very little to choose from. Thomas? Williams? James? Johnson? Morrell? Levitt? If you think any of those are going to make a big difference I’d be wondering what you were smoking, personally |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 29, 2022 23:53:52 GMT
Way too slack with the tracking and marking in the second half, it was so poor at times. The least players at international level should be doing is tracking and marking their man, I can accept a player getting turned by a bit of skill but to allow players so much space and time on the ball just shouldn't be happening and I find it very worrying how we keep on playing like that, as if it's okay to be slack.
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Post by davefishwick on Nov 30, 2022 1:05:06 GMT
We held our own in qualifying against teams deemed the level of USA and Iran at least. Our performances in the World Cup have been so empty and negative. No pressure or creativity and a massive gap in centre midfield. It’s been shambolic and amateur. I watched Canada play with envy. Ukraine, Austria, USA all probably of a similar level
all 50-50 games and too many coin flips you'll lose out eventually
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Post by highbury06 on Nov 30, 2022 1:26:05 GMT
Who should he have selected instead mate? It's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. It's well documented how threadbare our squad is even with everybody fit. If he drops Bale and Ramsey for Iran and we still (probably) lose he'd have got absolutely hammered for it. We're just in the worst spell of form we've experienced for 7 years, just happens to be during a World Cup with the eyes of the world on us. It sucks but it is what it is. Do you think Iran ( who the majority play in the Qatar league) have better players than us? certainly. azmoun, taremi, and their 1st and even 2nd choice gk |
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Post by highbury06 on Nov 30, 2022 1:28:18 GMT
We held our own in qualifying against teams deemed the level of USA and Iran at least. Our performances in the World Cup have been so empty and negative. No pressure or creativity and a massive gap in centre midfield. It’s been shambolic and amateur. I watched Canada play with envy. Ukraine, Austria, USA all probably of a similar level
all 50-50 games and too many coin flips you'll lose out eventually
we were awful against Ukraine. hennessey and yarmolenko bailed us out. we were awful against ukraine. bale bailed us out. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 9:34:59 GMT
The most "its like a training game" training game ive ever seen.
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 30, 2022 10:41:38 GMT
I’ve said umpteen times that we had no legs in midfield no energy and no tempo yet Page kept on and kept on with the same tactics and same selection. The USA showed what could be achieved when you press England with energy yet we look so unfit with shambolic tactics.if your happy after the 3 shit shows we’ve witnessed then good for you. I for one are not. We had a decent chance to get out of this average group and I believe with a better manager and better tactics we would have. Who are the legs you would have brought in? There is very little to choose from. Thomas? Williams? James? Johnson? Morrell? Levitt? If you think any of those are going to make a big difference I’d be wondering what you were smoking, personally Quality wise yes a huge step down,energy wise a massive step up. Would they have done any worse? Ramsey gave the ball away 21 times vs Iran and Bale touched the ball 7 times last night. So take your pick from any of the above yes. Wilson was just as poor during the first two games |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 30, 2022 10:42:27 GMT
The most "its like a training game" training game ive ever seen. I’ve seen more energy in training /testimonials games. |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 30, 2022 14:54:56 GMT
There's a notion that Wales did the fans proud, I don't agree with this at all. Against the US yes, the comeback and the fire was there via a very pumped up Kieffer Moore. We were often shambolic against Iran and England and as a set up the fans were let down because we all know that this could and should have been better.
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Post by garynysmon on Nov 30, 2022 15:31:43 GMT
Its hard to watch Australia having a right go at Denmark now, given you can't say that their squad is better than ours.
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Post by insertname on Nov 30, 2022 16:35:04 GMT
That's not really making much of a statement though. Don't know if you have seen much of Denmark this tournament but they have been utter trash. Completely devoid of ideas up front and thoroughly deserve to go out.
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Post by garynysmon on Nov 30, 2022 16:45:43 GMT
Sounds strangely familiar...
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Post by jackanapes on Nov 30, 2022 17:37:38 GMT
Some of the stuff here is so divorced from reality It’s hard to know where to start. First, there’s the idea we were outplayed by Austria and Ukraine, which is complete bollocks. Watch the games back. Yes, both teams fashioned some good chances but so did we. With more clinical finishing we’d have had very comfortable wins. For all the talk of a Hennesey masterclass against Ukraine, a lot of the saves were ones you’d expect him to make. It’s as if people have to insist that we are the worst or the best and there’s nothing in between.
Secondly, people saying that James and Johnson have been useless. Not true. We were outclassed by England, but the set up of the midfield against USA and Iran didn’t allow us to get the ball to them in dangerous areas often enough. These first two games were where we could realistically compete and the midfield selection failed to provide a platform to compete and supply our forwards.
Managers need to deal with injuries and lack of match fitness. Page isn’t entirely to blame for the players failings, but it’s his job to make the most of a bad hand by selecting players and formations that get the best out of the team given the opposition. He’s fallen short but our players also need to look at their club careers and ask tough questions.
We need to insist on higher standards across the board. Not insane expectations, but standards we expect players to meet to be involved and basic levels of performance we expect from a manager. I don’t want a witch hunt but I’m not happy seeing serious issues swept under the carpet either.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 30, 2022 17:51:13 GMT
We were better than Austria and deserved our win, but I'd say Ukraine were certainly the better side in the playoff final, though I do agree Hennessey's performance in that game was overhyped
I agree completely regarding James & Johnson. You need a structure to bring players into play and we simply didn't have one, there were no identifiable patterns of play so it's hard then for attacking players to play well. here were no foundations to build on. I saw Bale getting a lot of shit for having 7 touches yesterday, sure that's poor but not getting the most dangerous player on the ball points to wider systemic issues beyond an individual's performance
Your last point is spot on imo, and I fear that there's a real danger that genuine problems will be ignored until it's too late
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 30, 2022 17:55:54 GMT
Great post. We ain't world beaters but we certainly aren't a 'pub team' either. We've underperformed in this tournament for a variety of reasons. We need the players and management to understand those reasons and address them. But all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that follows disappointment is just a pointless waste of time and effort.
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 30, 2022 17:55:55 GMT
It’s all a still bit “ happy clappy” from reporters that have never been to a Wales game before. We were utter dross and the FAW should be saying they were disappointed with the outcome and a full review is needed. At least 2 of the coaching staff should go and new impetus with new ideas brought in via new personal.
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