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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 28, 2024 21:33:56 GMT
iot I take your point but Twitter football fans are so clueless I can't take anything they say seriously. I'm sure there's valid comments in there but it's rare to see players universally praised The best example I can think of is Jordan Henderson. In his prime he absolutely carried that Liverpool midfield to the league win & CL win, getting the best out of Trent in the process with his work ethic. If you searched his name on twitter you'd think he was a donkey. Absolutely clueless fans!
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Post by surge on Oct 29, 2024 20:35:23 GMT
Some football fans are such poos. He did relatively well against Cardiff off the bench the week before, especially considering the game status and lack of momentum of his side, scored on his debut but ultimately is a young man with lots to learn. He's not ready yet but hopefully will continue to get chances off the bench or starts throughout this year and we can see where we go from there. Fair enough, perhaps I’m being too miserable! I just think there’s a lot of false impressions of players’ form and development which lead to misguided views on squad selection decisions and our perceived quality. As fans, we obviously can’t follow the progress of the 200-odd professional players closely, so all we get are glimpses of their development, and those glimpses that come up tend to be only the best parts. People don’t notice when Mullin goes through half a dozen games without scoring, but once he scores a few games back to back people think he’s been tearing it up all season and are outraged that he isn’t selected. People see the 2 or 3 screamers that Charlie Savage scored, but not the half a dozen games he was dropped for. People see a few tidy finishes from Will Evans when it pops up on their twitter feed, but not the several games of fairly indifferent form. I just get frustrated when I see see people making a massive fuss about XYZ player not being selected when they’ve only seen the good things they’ve done and seem to be under the impression they’re doing those things constantly. Back to Issaka, he’s had a few cameos in the league and seems to have struggled to make much of an impact judging by their fans’ comments on him (and let’s not forget fans usually overly hype their own youth prospects). He’s a decent prospect for us, far behind Koumas but ahead of some others. I don’t think there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that this is going to be a breakthrough season for him at this point where he will be pushing for senior involvement with the national side, but someone to keep an eye on. I think there is something else other than hyping up players who have had less than 6 months of good football and being overly-critical of players starting to show promise who aren't perfect. I don't think this is going to be a breakthrough season but I don't think it needs to be. As long as he keeps coming off the bench and making most, learning as much as possible, of his starts then it could be the season before a breakthrough. That's why the criticism you reference is, imo, OTT. Maybe I am a bit old-school considering how some young players now arrive early and never leave, but it didn't used to be like that and for the majority it still isn't. Heck, some players are forced to arrive early and never leave which leads to injuries (hello Barca) which isn't right. I'm okay when a 21 year old starts a series of games, drops to the bench, then wins their starting position back. That used to be thought of a developing on an upward curve, which is the aim really. |
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Post by iot on Oct 29, 2024 21:05:23 GMT
Fair enough, perhaps I’m being too miserable! I just think there’s a lot of false impressions of players’ form and development which lead to misguided views on squad selection decisions and our perceived quality. As fans, we obviously can’t follow the progress of the 200-odd professional players closely, so all we get are glimpses of their development, and those glimpses that come up tend to be only the best parts. People don’t notice when Mullin goes through half a dozen games without scoring, but once he scores a few games back to back people think he’s been tearing it up all season and are outraged that he isn’t selected. People see the 2 or 3 screamers that Charlie Savage scored, but not the half a dozen games he was dropped for. People see a few tidy finishes from Will Evans when it pops up on their twitter feed, but not the several games of fairly indifferent form. I just get frustrated when I see see people making a massive fuss about XYZ player not being selected when they’ve only seen the good things they’ve done and seem to be under the impression they’re doing those things constantly. Back to Issaka, he’s had a few cameos in the league and seems to have struggled to make much of an impact judging by their fans’ comments on him (and let’s not forget fans usually overly hype their own youth prospects). He’s a decent prospect for us, far behind Koumas but ahead of some others. I don’t think there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that this is going to be a breakthrough season for him at this point where he will be pushing for senior involvement with the national side, but someone to keep an eye on. I think there is something else other than hyping up players who have had less than 6 months of good football and being overly-critical of players starting to show promise who aren't perfect. I don't think this is going to be a breakthrough season but I don't think it needs to be. As long as he keeps coming off the bench and making most, learning as much as possible, of his starts then it could be the season before a breakthrough. That's why the criticism you reference is, imo, OTT. Maybe I am a bit old-school considering how some young players now arrive early and never leave, but it didn't used to be like that and for the majority it still isn't. Heck, some players are forced to arrive early and never leave which leads to injuries (hello Barca) which isn't right. I'm okay when a 21 year old starts a series of games, drops to the bench, then wins their starting position back. That used to be thought of a developing on an upward curve, which is the aim really. I don’t think I was being overly critical. I wouldn’t have commented at all if there hadn’t been comments alluding to a potentially imminent senior call up, all based on two pieces of information - a start at 18 and a goal. So I just wanted to dig under the surface a little and share what came up after looking more into how he’s been doing. I also looked at some of the stats websites which have given him pretty poor ratings. And twitter isn’t always negative, look up Koumas for example and you’ll see lots of praise and excitement, and fans usually give a lot more leeway and give a lot more credit to their own prospects. |
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Post by iot on Oct 29, 2024 21:11:01 GMT
iot I take your point but Twitter football fans are so clueless I can't take anything they say seriously. I'm sure there's valid comments in there but it's rare to see players universally praised The best example I can think of is Jordan Henderson. In his prime he absolutely carried that Liverpool midfield to the league win & CL win, getting the best out of Trent in the process with his work ethic. If you searched his name on twitter you'd think he was a donkey. Absolutely clueless fans! Yeah, I’m not naive enough to think that Twitter is an entirely reliable source of evidence, however there are sentiments you can pick up which provides useful insights. I don’t think the perceived unfair criticism on Henderson is a useful example. In this case, it’s more useful to look at the typical commentary from fan bases about other youth prospects. I’m sure you’ll agree that it’s usually very positive, so the fact that it wasn’t in this case does tell a certain story. |
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Post by surge on Oct 29, 2024 21:12:10 GMT
I think there is something else other than hyping up players who have had less than 6 months of good football and being overly-critical of players starting to show promise who aren't perfect. I don't think this is going to be a breakthrough season but I don't think it needs to be. As long as he keeps coming off the bench and making most, learning as much as possible, of his starts then it could be the season before a breakthrough. That's why the criticism you reference is, imo, OTT. Maybe I am a bit old-school considering how some young players now arrive early and never leave, but it didn't used to be like that and for the majority it still isn't. Heck, some players are forced to arrive early and never leave which leads to injuries (hello Barca) which isn't right. I'm okay when a 21 year old starts a series of games, drops to the bench, then wins their starting position back. That used to be thought of a developing on an upward curve, which is the aim really. I don’t think I was being overly critical. I wouldn’t have commented at all if there hadn’t been comments alluding to a potentially imminent senior call up, all based on two pieces of information - a start at 18 and a goal. So I just wanted to dig under the surface a little and share what came up after looking more into how he’s been doing. I also looked at some of the stats websites which have given him pretty poor ratings. And twitter isn’t always negative, look up Koumas for example and you’ll see lots of praise and excitement, and fans usually give a lot more leeway and give a lot more credit to their own prospects. Your opening post referenced the following: "Searched his name on twitter, and their fans seemed to be looking at the decision to start him as desperation, saying that he obviously wasn't ready for this level. They were slagging off his performance before he scored." I think that demonstrates an overly-critical approach of a young player starting to show promise. Stats websites are a bit weird sometime but I infer from your posting you know of the strengths and limitations of statistics, so won't bore you with this. |
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Post by iot on Oct 29, 2024 21:53:11 GMT
I don’t think I was being overly critical. I wouldn’t have commented at all if there hadn’t been comments alluding to a potentially imminent senior call up, all based on two pieces of information - a start at 18 and a goal. So I just wanted to dig under the surface a little and share what came up after looking more into how he’s been doing. I also looked at some of the stats websites which have given him pretty poor ratings. And twitter isn’t always negative, look up Koumas for example and you’ll see lots of praise and excitement, and fans usually give a lot more leeway and give a lot more credit to their own prospects. Your opening post referenced the following: "Searched his name on twitter, and their fans seemed to be looking at the decision to start him as desperation, saying that he obviously wasn't ready for this level. They were slagging off his performance before he scored." I think that demonstrates an overly-critical approach of a young player starting to show promise. Stats websites are a bit weird sometime but I infer from your posting you know of the strengths and limitations of statistics, so won't bore you with this. As mentioned, that was made as a counter argument and a reality check in response to in my view some very optimistic comments to say the least! Don’t mean to be a miserable bastard, and I’m definitely not saying people should never get excited about youth prospects - it’s one of the best things about being a football fan - but equally, fans can get really silly at times making some massive assumptions when there’s a vacuum of information, and often only pick up on positive feedback and get a completely warped view. |
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Post by surge on Oct 29, 2024 22:00:58 GMT
Your opening post referenced the following: "Searched his name on twitter, and their fans seemed to be looking at the decision to start him as desperation, saying that he obviously wasn't ready for this level. They were slagging off his performance before he scored." I think that demonstrates an overly-critical approach of a young player starting to show promise. Stats websites are a bit weird sometime but I infer from your posting you know of the strengths and limitations of statistics, so won't bore you with this. As mentioned, that was made as a counter argument and a reality check in response to in my view some very optimistic comments to say the least! Don’t mean to be a miserable bastard, and I’m definitely not saying people should never get excited about youth prospects - it’s one of the best things about being a football fan - but equally, fans can get really silly at times making some massive assumptions when there’s a vacuum of information, and often only pick up on positive feedback and get a completely warped view. I don't think we're saying too much different. I think the difference between us is as minimal as you pulling out an overview of one section of twitter to cool down expectations and me saying you don't need to use OTT criticism to counter OTT excitement. That and me being a little bit more hopeful about Will Evans and Charlie Savage! |
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