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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 23, 2024 18:47:44 GMT
Speed: W5 D0 L5 Wins: 50%
Coleman: W19 D13 L18 Wins: 38%
Giggs: W12 D5 L8 Wins: 48%
Page: W15 D16 L14 Wins: 33.3%
On the face if it Giggs has the most impressive record, but context is everything. Speed inherited a dysfunctional team with the BAR trio yet to reach their peak. Things were very much on the correct trajectory before his tragic demise.
Coleman's record would probably have been better were it not for the circumstances when he took over and his understandable reluctance to deviate from Speed's approach.
Giggs probably had the most favourable set of circumstances, with the BAR trio still close to their prime.
When you factor in that Page managed us in two tournaments and the Nations A League his record is pretty decent.
Interesting that all 4 won at least as many as they lost. Given that the only decade we had a positive winning record apart from the current one was the 30s (the 50s weren't that great win percentage wise) it just shows that we are living in the best era for football in Cymru's history.
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Post by hooky on Jun 23, 2024 19:52:02 GMT
Speed: W5 D0 L5 Wins: 50% Coleman: W19 D13 L18 Wins: 38% Giggs: W12 D5 L8 Wins: 48% Page: W15 D16 L14 Wins: 33.3% On the face if it Giggs has the most impressive record, but context is everything. Speed inherited a dysfunctional team with the BAR trio yet to reach their peak. Things were very much on the correct trajectory before his tragic demise. Coleman's record would probably have been better were it not for the circumstances when he took over and his understandable reluctance to deviate from Speed's approach. Giggs probably had the most favourable set of circumstances, with the BAR trio still close to their prime. When you factor in that Page managed us in two tournaments and the Nations A League his record is pretty decent. Interesting that all 4 won at least as many as they lost. Given that the only decade we had a positive winning record apart from the current one was the 30s (the 50s weren't that great win percentage wise) it just shows that we are living in the best era for football in Cymru's history. Context wise - Wales were in transition when Giggs took over! He threw loads of youngsters in and started playing a more attacking brand of football. Lets be fair - context is everything - he was brave in how he turned over the old guard Everyone loved Speed and I don't remember any top players retiring and he had the vibrant youngsters starting to blossom. Lets not invent context which is not fair or balanced! Oh and he delivered results when the pressure was on and we could not afford a single slip up By contrast Page had several chances to qualify and blew it |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jun 23, 2024 21:38:59 GMT
Fair point about Giggs although he didn't have to contend with the departures of the BAR trio.
I'm not sure what point you're making about Speed. He didn't get us close to qualifying, although I'm sure he would have were it not for his tragic death.
As for Page he qualified us for a World Cup and the Nations A League. That's pretty relevant context.
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Post by jbt95 on Jun 23, 2024 21:56:55 GMT
I'm not sure what point you're making about Speed. He didn't get us close to qualifying, although I'm sure he would have were it not for his tragic death. We weren’t a million miles away from qualifying for euro 2012 in the end, only 3 points off the play offs. If Earnshaw had equalised at Wembley, maybe we would’ve got those 3! |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 23, 2024 23:51:58 GMT
Speed: W5 D0 L5 Wins: 50% Coleman: W19 D13 L18 Wins: 38% Giggs: W12 D5 L8 Wins: 48% Page: W15 D16 L14 Wins: 33.3% On the face if it Giggs has the most impressive record, but context is everything. Speed inherited a dysfunctional team with the BAR trio yet to reach their peak. Things were very much on the correct trajectory before his tragic demise. Coleman's record would probably have been better were it not for the circumstances when he took over and his understandable reluctance to deviate from Speed's approach. Giggs probably had the most favourable set of circumstances, with the BAR trio still close to their prime. When you factor in that Page managed us in two tournaments and the Nations A League his record is pretty decent. Interesting that all 4 won at least as many as they lost. Given that the only decade we had a positive winning record apart from the current one was the 30s (the 50s weren't that great win percentage wise) it just shows that we are living in the best era for football in Cymru's history. Context wise - Wales were in transition when Giggs took over! He threw loads of youngsters in and started playing a more attacking brand of football. Lets be fair - context is everything - he was brave in how he turned over the old guard Everyone loved Speed and I don't remember any top players retiring and he had the vibrant youngsters starting to blossom. Lets not invent context which is not fair or balanced! Oh and he delivered results when the pressure was on and we could not afford a single slip up By contrast Page had several chances to qualify and blew it Sorry but this is absolute Bollox Page had 2 chances to qualify, close to euros without bale and the first World Cup in 60 years. We don’t need you to rewrite the history books here. Giggs did ok, that’s all. The players he blooded most weren’t good enough. Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved |
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Post by surge on Jun 24, 2024 7:12:56 GMT
Think Giggs can be compared to Toshack in that they both took over historically (relatively) successful teams that needed an update in style and personal.
Page can be compared to Coleman in that they took over in difficult circumstances and helped us reach new heights.
Page's win against Croatia probably our best result since our win against Belgium under Coleman. But we also had lower lows under Coleman and Page than we did under Giggs.
Obviously there are differences but in terms of wide-lens context to wins/losses record, this is where I would start.
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Post by jbt95 on Jun 24, 2024 10:50:30 GMT
Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved Speed won 4 of his last 5 games, the other game was the 1-0 defeat at Wembley. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 24, 2024 11:06:00 GMT
Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved Speed won 4 of his last 5 games, the other game was the 1-0 defeat at Wembley. these were speeds results Wales 4-1 Norway. Bulgaria 0-1 Wales. Wales 2-0 Switzerland. England 1-0 Wales. Wales 2-1 Montenegro. Wales 1-2 Australia. Wales 2-0 Northern Ireland. Scotland 3-1 Wales Republic of Ireland 3–0 Wales Wales 0–2 England speed was definitely on the up with Wales towards the end and we'll always be grateful form bringing in stability and professionalism but those results were not amazing and no big scalps there. |
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Post by jbt95 on Jun 24, 2024 11:36:38 GMT
Speed won 4 of his last 5 games, the other game was the 1-0 defeat at Wembley. these were speeds results Wales 4-1 Norway. Bulgaria 0-1 Wales. Wales 2-0 Switzerland. England 1-0 Wales. Wales 2-1 Montenegro. Wales 1-2 Australia. Wales 2-0 Northern Ireland. Scotland 3-1 Wales Republic of Ireland 3–0 Wales Wales 0–2 England speed was definitely on the up with Wales towards the end and we'll always be grateful form bringing in stability and professionalism but those results were not amazing and no big scalps there. Could only play the fixtures we had. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 24, 2024 13:25:56 GMT
Context wise - Wales were in transition when Giggs took over! He threw loads of youngsters in and started playing a more attacking brand of football. Lets be fair - context is everything - he was brave in how he turned over the old guard Everyone loved Speed and I don't remember any top players retiring and he had the vibrant youngsters starting to blossom. Lets not invent context which is not fair or balanced! Oh and he delivered results when the pressure was on and we could not afford a single slip up By contrast Page had several chances to qualify and blew it Sorry but this is absolute Bollox Page had 2 chances to qualify, close to euros without bale and the first World Cup in 60 years. We don’t need you to rewrite the history books here. Giggs did ok, that’s all. The players he blooded most weren’t good enough.Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved That's harsh, Mepham, C.Roberts, D.James, Rodon, Lockyer, Moore, RND, Neco and Morrell were all given their debuts by Giggs and went on to be important players Bold move as well to make a young Ampadu his key midfielder that we've benefitted from as well as hasten the move away from the old guard when it would have been incredibly easy to keep picking the likes of Vokes. He also took us to the Euros with a misfiring Bale, little contribution from Ramsey and turned that campaign around from a poor start. He also managed all but one of the Nations Leagues games that saw us win promotion Can't stand the man and shouldn't be anywhere near consideration this time but he did a good job |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 24, 2024 13:29:01 GMT
these were speeds results Wales 4-1 Norway. Bulgaria 0-1 Wales. Wales 2-0 Switzerland. England 1-0 Wales. Wales 2-1 Montenegro. Wales 1-2 Australia. Wales 2-0 Northern Ireland. Scotland 3-1 Wales Republic of Ireland 3–0 Wales Wales 0–2 England speed was definitely on the up with Wales towards the end and we'll always be grateful form bringing in stability and professionalism but those results were not amazing and no big scalps there. Could only play the fixtures we had. That 4-1 over Norway was a hugely impressive performance too and a win over Switzerland is nothing to be sniffed at Montenegro had a very good campaign too if I recall correctly. We were also an Earnie sitter away from a draw at Wembley... |
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Post by jimmytaff on Jun 24, 2024 13:51:37 GMT
Speed: W5 D0 L5 Wins: 50% Coleman: W19 D13 L18 Wins: 38% Giggs: W12 D5 L8 Wins: 48% Page: W15 D16 L14 Wins: 33.3% On the face if it Giggs has the most impressive record, but context is everything. Speed inherited a dysfunctional team with the BAR trio yet to reach their peak. Things were very much on the correct trajectory before his tragic demise. Coleman's record would probably have been better were it not for the circumstances when he took over and his understandable reluctance to deviate from Speed's approach. Giggs probably had the most favourable set of circumstances, with the BAR trio still close to their prime. When you factor in that Page managed us in two tournaments and the Nations A League his record is pretty decent. Interesting that all 4 won at least as many as they lost. Given that the only decade we had a positive winning record apart from the current one was the 30s (the 50s weren't that great win percentage wise) it just shows that we are living in the best era for football in Cymru's history. I'm no fan of Page and glad he's gone but have to acknowledge the very difficult fixtures in the Nations League top tier wouldn't have helped his stats or preparations forthe World Cup. Page deserves some credit for being at the helm for two tournament qualifications but also deserves his share of the blame for poor performances there. It has to be noted that qualifying is much easier than it was and Bale for us over the line on a few occasions. What also goes against Page has been being tactically outmanoeuvred in most of our biggest games. He had the players fired up with the right level of aggression for the Poland game but I felt we were let down tactically even if I accept the Poles probably had a deeper bench and more options. |
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Post by surge on Jun 24, 2024 14:04:12 GMT
Sorry but this is absolute Bollox Page had 2 chances to qualify, close to euros without bale and the first World Cup in 60 years. We don’t need you to rewrite the history books here. Giggs did ok, that’s all. The players he blooded most weren’t good enough.Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved That's harsh, Mepham, C.Roberts, D.James, Rodon, Lockyer, Moore, RND, Neco and Morrell were all given their debuts by Giggs and went on to be important players Bold move as well to make a young Ampadu his key midfielder that we've benefitted from as well as hasten the move away from the old guard when it would have been incredibly easy to keep picking the likes of Vokes. He also took us to the Euros with a misfiring Bale, little contribution from Ramsey and turned that campaign around from a poor start. He also managed all but one of the Nations Leagues games that saw us win promotion Can't stand the man and shouldn't be anywhere near consideration this time but he did a good job But was Bale only misfiring or was he played as a CF when that's not his natural role? Page got more out of Bale as a slow(er) creative midfielder than Giggs got out of him as a CF. Giggs probably got more out of young CM partnerships than Page did in his CM partnerships before Jordan James appeared, and Page more out of strikers not named Kieffer Moore than Giggs did. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 24, 2024 14:26:50 GMT
Sorry but this is absolute Bollox Page had 2 chances to qualify, close to euros without bale and the first World Cup in 60 years. We don’t need you to rewrite the history books here. Giggs did ok, that’s all. The players he blooded most weren’t good enough.Speed he’s a legend for obv reasons but I can’t remember and major results under him. He turned us into a professional outfit and the signs were good but very little achieved That's harsh, Mepham, C.Roberts, D.James, Rodon, Lockyer, Moore, RND, Neco and Morrell were all given their debuts by Giggs and went on to be important players Bold move as well to make a young Ampadu his key midfielder that we've benefitted from as well as hasten the move away from the old guard when it would have been incredibly easy to keep picking the likes of Vokes. He also took us to the Euros with a misfiring Bale, little contribution from Ramsey and turned that campaign around from a poor start. He also managed all but one of the Nations Leagues games that saw us win promotion Can't stand the man and shouldn't be anywhere near consideration this time but he did a good job I was more calling the comment "By contrast Page had several chances to qualify and blew it" bollox Im pretty sure Rodon played the majority of his football under Page as lockyer was preferred to him when giggs was in charge. Ampadu was around a long time before giggs, in fact he travelled to euro 16 with the team. Players like matt smith, levitt and James lawrence im pretty sure came in under giggs and shouldn't be anywhere near the side. To be fair i thought he did well but no better or worse than page. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 24, 2024 14:30:02 GMT
Could only play the fixtures we had. That 4-1 over Norway was a hugely impressive performance too and a win over Switzerland is nothing to be sniffed at Montenegro had a very good campaign too if I recall correctly. We were also an Earnie sitter away from a draw at Wembley... But there's no result in that group like belgium or Croatia, russia, turkey etc. I think though in the context of welsh football what we saw with speed was professionalism and the glimmer of hope that we all needed.. the barry horns, the crowds started to come back and general excitement about welsh football again. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 24, 2024 14:46:48 GMT
That's harsh, Mepham, C.Roberts, D.James, Rodon, Lockyer, Moore, RND, Neco and Morrell were all given their debuts by Giggs and went on to be important players Bold move as well to make a young Ampadu his key midfielder that we've benefitted from as well as hasten the move away from the old guard when it would have been incredibly easy to keep picking the likes of Vokes. He also took us to the Euros with a misfiring Bale, little contribution from Ramsey and turned that campaign around from a poor start. He also managed all but one of the Nations Leagues games that saw us win promotion Can't stand the man and shouldn't be anywhere near consideration this time but he did a good job But was Bale only misfiring or was he played as a CF when that's not his natural role? Page got more out of Bale as a slow(er) creative midfielder than Giggs got out of him as a CF. Giggs probably got more out of young CM partnerships than Page did in his CM partnerships before Jordan James appeared, and Page more out of strikers not named Kieffer Moore than Giggs did. I don't think it's Giggs' fault that Bale scuffed a sitter out in Hungary, the same way it wasn't Page's fault when he skied that penalty against Turkey at the Euros That rotating front 4 worked very well against Ireland & Slovakia as well, he never really played as an out and out striker. Lawrence tended to be the central one of the 4 with Bale, James and Brooks behind him rather than Bale playing as a striker |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 24, 2024 15:08:04 GMT
That's harsh, Mepham, C.Roberts, D.James, Rodon, Lockyer, Moore, RND, Neco and Morrell were all given their debuts by Giggs and went on to be important players Bold move as well to make a young Ampadu his key midfielder that we've benefitted from as well as hasten the move away from the old guard when it would have been incredibly easy to keep picking the likes of Vokes. He also took us to the Euros with a misfiring Bale, little contribution from Ramsey and turned that campaign around from a poor start. He also managed all but one of the Nations Leagues games that saw us win promotion Can't stand the man and shouldn't be anywhere near consideration this time but he did a good job I was more calling the comment "By contrast Page had several chances to qualify and blew it" bollox Im pretty sure Rodon played the majority of his football under Page as lockyer was preferred to him when giggs was in charge. Ampadu was around a long time before giggs, in fact he travelled to euro 16 with the team. Players like matt smith, levitt and James lawrence im pretty sure came in under giggs and shouldn't be anywhere near the side. To be fair i thought he did well but no better or worse than page. Rodon was in and out with injury but generally started when fit Yes Ampadu was around before Giggs, but he had the balls to throw him in in the deep end against Ireland and make him our key midfielder, which is a decision we've benefitted from as I pointed out. I'm not pretending Giggs discovered him or anything like that Sure there were misses, nobody's claiming otherwise, but Giggs doesn't have a crystal ball. Giggs identified we needed midfield reinforcements and tried to rectify that. At the time they were capped Smith and Levitt looked like good prospects for the future, its harsh to look back and say they should never have been in the side and to chastise Giggs for it I was just responding to the point regarding the players he blooded mostly not being good enough, that's just unfair an untrue. Of the team that beat Ukraine, 6 were given debuts by Giggs. |
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Post by talyfan on Jun 24, 2024 15:36:27 GMT
For context in and around Levitts and Smiths regular call ups between 2019-21
we've called up Joe Allen (mainstay), Joe Morrell, Lee Evans, Will Vaulks, Louis Thompson, Terry Taylor, Tom Lowery and Josh Sheehan.
Not as if he was spoilt for choice but credit to him trying to cast the net out and bring in players.
Since Page has been in charge I can't think of many central midfield players emerging playing even regularly in League One or from academies in that time for him to call up. And by the time he was appointed most of those players I've mentioned have found their level which isn't up to what we need, not to say they can't be useful but just not to the next level as starters or depth.
Personally, think we have to do it again. Call up young lads and bleed them in.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 24, 2024 17:39:51 GMT
Speed: W5 D0 L5 Wins: 50% Coleman: W19 D13 L18 Wins: 38% Giggs: W12 D5 L8 Wins: 48% Page: W15 D16 L14 Wins: 33.3% On the face if it Giggs has the most impressive record, but context is everything. Speed inherited a dysfunctional team with the BAR trio yet to reach their peak. Things were very much on the correct trajectory before his tragic demise. Coleman's record would probably have been better were it not for the circumstances when he took over and his understandable reluctance to deviate from Speed's approach. Giggs probably had the most favourable set of circumstances, with the BAR trio still close to their prime. When you factor in that Page managed us in two tournaments and the Nations A League his record is pretty decent. Interesting that all 4 won at least as many as they lost. Given that the only decade we had a positive winning record apart from the current one was the 30s (the 50s weren't that great win percentage wise) it just shows that we are living in the best era for football in Cymru's history. I'm no fan of Page and glad he's gone but have to acknowledge the very difficult fixtures in the Nations League top tier wouldn't have helped his stats or preparations forthe World Cup. Page deserves some credit for being at the helm for two tournament qualifications but also deserves his share of the blame for poor performances there. It has to be noted that qualifying is much easier than it was and Bale for us over the line on a few occasions. What also goes against Page has been being tactically outmanoeuvred in most of our biggest games. He had the players fired up with the right level of aggression for the Poland game but I felt we were let down tactically even if I accept the Poles probably had a deeper bench and more options. It's not fair to say we performed poorly at Euro 2020. Everyone calls it a poor performance because they just remember the Denmark result - our worst performance at the tournament for sure. But we reached the last 16 man! That's some achievement! Scotland showing how difficult that is currently Switzerland are serial knockout level qualifiers. World Cups and Euros they're always in the knockouts, and we finished ahead of them in a group that also contained the "dark horses" and the eventual winners. That Euros was a huge over-performance given our squad, yet it gets written off as a failure by a lot of the fan base because of the expectation of Euro 2016. It's part of the stick that gets used to beat Page as well, but for me he should be praised for our performance at that tournament |
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Post by surge on Jun 24, 2024 17:59:28 GMT
Euro 2020 was largely a success for our nation but the most recent game was us being dismantled by a massively motivated and well supported Denmark team.
I would have fancied us against Sweden, Netherlands or Ukraine. The Switzerland result was one of the finest of recent times even though we rode our luck a bit.
Those using it as a stick to beat Page with, well Kasper Schmeichal was a laser pointer away from saving the penalty and making a Denmark Italy final.
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Post by njdragon on Jun 24, 2024 19:10:17 GMT
I'm no fan of Page and glad he's gone but have to acknowledge the very difficult fixtures in the Nations League top tier wouldn't have helped his stats or preparations forthe World Cup. Page deserves some credit for being at the helm for two tournament qualifications but also deserves his share of the blame for poor performances there. It has to be noted that qualifying is much easier than it was and Bale for us over the line on a few occasions. What also goes against Page has been being tactically outmanoeuvred in most of our biggest games. He had the players fired up with the right level of aggression for the Poland game but I felt we were let down tactically even if I accept the Poles probably had a deeper bench and more options. It's not fair to say we performed poorly at Euro 2020. Everyone calls it a poor performance because they just remember the Denmark result - our worst performance at the tournament for sure. But we reached the last 16 man! That's some achievement! Scotland showing how difficult that is currently Switzerland are serial knockout level qualifiers. World Cups and Euros they're always in the knockouts, and we finished ahead of them in a group that also contained the "dark horses" and the eventual winners. That Euros was a huge over-performance given our squad, yet it gets written off as a failure by a lot of the fan base because of the expectation of Euro 2016. It's part of the stick that gets used to beat Page as well, but for me he should be praised for our performance at that tournament Total agree we beat turkey and lost 1-0 to the eventual winners in time. That was an achievement to get out of that group |
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Post by jimmytaff on Jun 24, 2024 22:11:26 GMT
I'm no fan of Page and glad he's gone but have to acknowledge the very difficult fixtures in the Nations League top tier wouldn't have helped his stats or preparations forthe World Cup. Page deserves some credit for being at the helm for two tournament qualifications but also deserves his share of the blame for poor performances there. It has to be noted that qualifying is much easier than it was and Bale for us over the line on a few occasions. What also goes against Page has been being tactically outmanoeuvred in most of our biggest games. He had the players fired up with the right level of aggression for the Poland game but I felt we were let down tactically even if I accept the Poles probably had a deeper bench and more options. It's not fair to say we performed poorly at Euro 2020. Everyone calls it a poor performance because they just remember the Denmark result - our worst performance at the tournament for sure. But we reached the last 16 man! That's some achievement! Scotland showing how difficult that is currently Switzerland are serial knockout level qualifiers. World Cups and Euros they're always in the knockouts, and we finished ahead of them in a group that also contained the "dark horses" and the eventual winners. That Euros was a huge over-performance given our squad, yet it gets written off as a failure by a lot of the fan base because of the expectation of Euro 2016. It's part of the stick that gets used to beat Page as well, but for me he should be praised for our performance at that tournament We were destroyed by Denmark and lucky to get a draw with the Swiss, they were much better on the day. The Turkish performance was good - not sure what happened to them on the day. It wasn't a bad tournament but the WC performances were a disaster - the opposition better than most people appreciate but we went out with a whimper and Page took all the easy options. Two thirds of teams get out of the Euros group stage - it's not the achievement it used to be as demonstrated by NI in 2016 |
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Post by jbt95 on Jun 24, 2024 22:23:10 GMT
It's not fair to say we performed poorly at Euro 2020. Everyone calls it a poor performance because they just remember the Denmark result - our worst performance at the tournament for sure. But we reached the last 16 man! That's some achievement! Scotland showing how difficult that is currently Switzerland are serial knockout level qualifiers. World Cups and Euros they're always in the knockouts, and we finished ahead of them in a group that also contained the "dark horses" and the eventual winners. That Euros was a huge over-performance given our squad, yet it gets written off as a failure by a lot of the fan base because of the expectation of Euro 2016. It's part of the stick that gets used to beat Page as well, but for me he should be praised for our performance at that tournament We were destroyed by Denmark and lucky to get a draw with the Swiss, they were much better on the day. The Turkish performance was good - not sure what happened to them on the day. It wasn't a bad tournament but the WC performances were a disaster - the opposition better than most people appreciate but we went out with a whimper and Page took all the easy options. Two thirds of teams get out of the Euros group stage - it's not the achievement it used to be as demonstrated by NI in 2016 We finished top 2 though! Yes more teams in general but we had a tough group! |
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Post by jimmytaff on Jun 25, 2024 8:10:29 GMT
We were destroyed by Denmark and lucky to get a draw with the Swiss, they were much better on the day. The Turkish performance was good - not sure what happened to them on the day. It wasn't a bad tournament but the WC performances were a disaster - the opposition better than most people appreciate but we went out with a whimper and Page took all the easy options. Two thirds of teams get out of the Euros group stage - it's not the achievement it used to be as demonstrated by NI in 2016 We finished top 2 though! Yes more teams in general but we had a tough group! Fair. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 25, 2024 21:30:12 GMT
It's not fair to say we performed poorly at Euro 2020. Everyone calls it a poor performance because they just remember the Denmark result - our worst performance at the tournament for sure. But we reached the last 16 man! That's some achievement! Scotland showing how difficult that is currently Switzerland are serial knockout level qualifiers. World Cups and Euros they're always in the knockouts, and we finished ahead of them in a group that also contained the "dark horses" and the eventual winners. That Euros was a huge over-performance given our squad, yet it gets written off as a failure by a lot of the fan base because of the expectation of Euro 2016. It's part of the stick that gets used to beat Page as well, but for me he should be praised for our performance at that tournament We were destroyed by Denmark and lucky to get a draw with the Swiss, they were much better on the day. The Turkish performance was good - not sure what happened to them on the day. It wasn't a bad tournament but the WC performances were a disaster - the opposition better than most people appreciate but we went out with a whimper and Page took all the easy options. Two thirds of teams get out of the Euros group stage - it's not the achievement it used to be as demonstrated by NI in 2016 Being in the top 16 in Europe is still a great achievement for a nation of our size, doesn't matter how we get there |
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Post by jimexotic on Jun 26, 2024 0:11:56 GMT
Giggs did very good things as manager, he was brave and did things I don't think a lot of other managers would have. Zero room for sentiment in how he operated and it worked. Just a shame that he's not a particularly nice person.
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Post by derynglas on Jun 26, 2024 12:17:19 GMT
I think the performances of our neighbours should give some perspective on our performances in finals.
As we have seen,Scotland 12 tounaments,never progressed.
England have won 1 Euro knockout tie on foreign soil,against Ukraine in Rome 2021.
All their other games at Wembley.So theyv never won a Euro knockout tie in an actual foreign tournament.
I realise this may shortly change but its taken them long enough,and it may not the way their playing.
People go on about the our Denmark game in 2021 but it was practically a home game for them,we had what 2 dozen fans there.
We travelled all over,Scotland and England played at home mostly giving them a huge advantage.
compared to us.
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