|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 29, 2024 8:47:15 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by gimli on Sept 29, 2024 11:38:06 GMT
Interesting! Always thought something like this should be a no-brainer for the Welsh EFL clubs providing UEFA allow it. However, if it does happen, in my opinion it should be the proper Welsh Cup they play in and qualify through, not the League Cup. The Welsh Cup is obviously the most important cup, so it should have the highest stakes and have all the best teams in Wales playing in it. |
|
|
|
Post by jimexotic on Sept 29, 2024 12:07:01 GMT
On the flipside, if this was in place when Swansea won the league cup they wouldn't have got into Europe.
|
|
|
|
Post by cynonvalley on Sept 29, 2024 13:04:40 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 7:20:56 GMT
What sort of attendance would a Cardiff vs Swansea cup final get, with the winner getting into Europe?
Feel like it would be over 50k
|
|
|
|
Post by welshrover on Sept 30, 2024 7:30:27 GMT
What sort of attendance would a Cardiff vs Swansea cup final get, with the winner getting into Europe? Feel like it would be over 50k Does it not "steal" a European place from a Cymru Premier team who are plying their trade in the league week in week out? |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 7:34:37 GMT
What sort of attendance would a Cardiff vs Swansea cup final get, with the winner getting into Europe? Feel like it would be over 50k Does it not "steal" a European place from a Cymru Premier team who are plying their trade in the league week in week out? Yes it takes one of the Conference League spots. However, it's unlikely any of these clubs lose out in revenue due to this scenario as the aim is to increase sponsor/TV revenue/gate increases, which will be diverted to the rest of the Cymru League clubs So yes they won't get to play Macedonian teams once a year, but they get the same if not more money |
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Sept 30, 2024 9:08:16 GMT
What sort of attendance would a Cardiff vs Swansea cup final get, with the winner getting into Europe? Feel like it would be over 50k A mate told me about this plan a few weeks ago and seemed excited by that very prospect Cardiff v Swansea at the Millenium with Europe on the line? Tasty. |
|
|
|
Post by bolter on Sept 30, 2024 10:26:24 GMT
Does it not "steal" a European place from a Cymru Premier team who are plying their trade in the league week in week out? Yes it takes one of the Conference League spots. However, it's unlikely any of these clubs lose out in revenue due to this scenario as the aim is to increase sponsor/TV revenue/gate increases, which will be diverted to the rest of the Cymru League clubs So yes they won't get to play Macedonian teams once a year, but they get the same if not more money If the EFL teams are successful and increase the coefficient, would it lead to more European places? |
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 30, 2024 13:15:17 GMT
Am I right in saying 4 Welsh clubs were placed into European qualification this season?
So in all likelihood, this reduces to 3 places for WPL sides and in return, we'd likely see the coefficient rise due to the likes of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham going further in the competition. Seems a decent trade off to me and a good money spinner for Welsh football, but as a Wrexham fan I'm also likely to back it as I'd love to see us play in Europe.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 13:50:10 GMT
Yes it takes one of the Conference League spots. However, it's unlikely any of these clubs lose out in revenue due to this scenario as the aim is to increase sponsor/TV revenue/gate increases, which will be diverted to the rest of the Cymru League clubs So yes they won't get to play Macedonian teams once a year, but they get the same if not more money If the EFL teams are successful and increase the coefficient, would it lead to more European places? Hypothetically yes, although that would be a long long way off and quite unlikely if I'm being honest The way it works is clubs ranked 55th-51st in the coefficient get 3 places. 50th-16th get 4 places, 15th-7th get 5 places, 6th gets 6 places, and 5th-1st get 7 places This season we moved up 2 places to 50th, thereby gaining back our 4th place we lost a few seasons ago. However we wouldn't gain another place until being ranked 15th or higher. You have Scotland, Greece, Poland, Croatia, Ukraine all sitting outside of the top 15 so that gives you a clue about the standard. 5 places is probably not a realistic thing to aim for However what this move will undoubtedly do is to sure up our 4 places, and never be in a position where we are at risk of losing our 4th spot. I'd expect us to rise up the rankings over the next 10-15 years and settle somewhere between 30th-20th |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 17:30:24 GMT
Hypothetically yes, although that would be a long long way off and quite unlikely if I'm being honest The way it works is clubs ranked 55th-51st in the coefficient get 3 places. 50th-16th get 4 places, 15th-7th get 5 places, 6th gets 6 places, and 5th-1st get 7 places This season we moved up 2 places to 50th, thereby gaining back our 4th place we lost a few seasons ago. However we wouldn't gain another place until being ranked 15th or higher. You have Scotland, Greece, Poland, Croatia, Ukraine all sitting outside of the top 15 so that gives you a clue about the standard. 5 places is probably not a realistic thing to aim for However what this move will undoubtedly do is to sure up our 4 places, and never be in a position where we are at risk of losing our 4th spot. I'd expect us to rise up the rankings over the next 10-15 years and settle somewhere between 30th-20th At 32 we'd get a Europa League spot I didn't realise that's how it worked. In that case it's a great thing to aim for and very achievable |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 18:43:33 GMT
Given it seems this will be a regular occurrence in the not so distant future, I thought it would merit a thread of its own. Two questions to get the thread started: 1) Hypothetically, how would the best Welsh side (this season Swansea for example) fare in the Europa Conference League? 2) What is the best ever result for a Welsh club in Europe? Link to article about the EFL clubs joining the Welsh League Cup: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cwyl0r8d81lo |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 30, 2024 18:52:13 GMT
Obviously when they were in the Premier League Swansea made it to the Europa League knockouts. They're nowhere near as strong as that side at present, but then the English pyramid is probably stronger now than it was back then too
Given TNS have qualified I think it would be very likely to see Swansea reach the Group Stage/League Phase. However they would have to win quite a few games to get there, and would have a harder path than TNS. Let's imagine they do qualify as it's very likely they would...
Looking at this season's rendition these are the clubs I would say are comfortably better are Chelsea, Fiorentina and Real Betis. Beyond that there are a bunch of clubs that I would say Swansea would be competitive with. E.g: APOEL, Basaksehir, Copenhagen, Gent, Heidenheim, Panathinaikos, Molde. Beyond that I think Swansea could expect to beat most of the other teams in it. I think that suggests Swansea could realistically be a top 8 side in the ECL, and as a result that would put them as potentially strong enough to reach a quarter final. I don't think that's unrealistic at all!
Beyond that it's a coin toss, however it's no inconceivable that they could reach the semis or the final. I think it's likely that they'd come up against a better side than them in the semis/final, so winning the whole thing is probably quite unlikely, but you never know. If they did win that would be a pathway into the Europa League too, which is an interesting hypothetical!
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 30, 2024 18:56:21 GMT
Wrexham beating Porto over two legs has got to be the best twi legged victory. Bangor beating Napoli 2 0 at home has got to be the best single legged victory followed by Merthyr beating Atalanta at home. Swansea beating Valência 3 0 at the Mestalla and Cardiff beating Real Madrid 1 0 in 1971 were also very impressive results. Newport drawing 2 2 away to Carl Zeiss Jena in the quarter final of the Cup Winners Cup is also memorable.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 30, 2024 19:00:31 GMT
Obviously when they were in the Premier League Swansea made it to the Europa League knockouts. They're nowhere near as strong as that side at present, but then the English pyramid is probably stronger now than it was back then too Given TNS have qualified I think it would be very likely to see Swansea reach the Group Stage/League Phase. However they would have to win quite a few games to get there, and would have a harder path than TNS. Let's imagine they do qualify as it's very likely they would... Looking at this season's rendition these are the clubs I would say are comfortably better are Chelsea, Fiorentina and Real Betis. Beyond that there are a bunch of clubs that I would say Swansea would be competitive with. E.g: APOEL, Basaksehir, Copenhagen, Gent, Heidenheim, Panathinaikos, Molde. Beyond that I think Swansea could expect to beat most of the other teams in it. I think that suggests Swansea could realistically be a top 8 side in the ECL, and as a result that would put them as potentially strong enough to reach a quarter final. I don't think that's unrealistic at all! Beyond that it's a coin toss, however it's no inconceivable that they could reach the semis or the final. I think it's likely that they'd come up against a better side than them in the semis/final, so winning the whole thing is probably quite unlikely, but you never know. If they did win that would be a pathway into the Europa League too, which is an interesting hypothetical! Good points. Finishing in the top 8 means a seeded tie in the round of 16 not the quarters, but a quarter final is a distinct possibility. I imagine Cardiff would be similarly competitive and Wrexham would have a good chance of making the playoffs for the teams finishing 9th to 24th. |
|
|
|
Post by neverever on Sept 30, 2024 19:32:07 GMT
Some of the English clubs maybe will complain especially if the clubs got millions in prize money & giving them a financial advantage?
|
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 30, 2024 19:37:49 GMT
Some of the English clubs maybe will complain especially if the clubs got millions in prize money & giving them a financial advantage? Couldn't give two shits about English clubs. They'll complain if we get into Europe through one of their spots. Sod em. |
|
|
|
Post by neverever on Sept 30, 2024 22:11:28 GMT
What sort of attendance would a Cardiff vs Swansea cup final get, with the winner getting into Europe? Feel like it would be over 50k Does it not "steal" a European place from a Cymru Premier team who are plying their trade in the league week in week out? Agree & what about the thousands of volunteers who work for nothing to try to take the local club to the highest possible level only to get one of the Euro places taken by the league teams. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 1, 2024 0:09:17 GMT
Obviously when they were in the Premier League Swansea made it to the Europa League knockouts. They're nowhere near as strong as that side at present, but then the English pyramid is probably stronger now than it was back then too Given TNS have qualified I think it would be very likely to see Swansea reach the Group Stage/League Phase. However they would have to win quite a few games to get there, and would have a harder path than TNS. Let's imagine they do qualify as it's very likely they would... Looking at this season's rendition these are the clubs I would say are comfortably better are Chelsea, Fiorentina and Real Betis. Beyond that there are a bunch of clubs that I would say Swansea would be competitive with. E.g: APOEL, Basaksehir, Copenhagen, Gent, Heidenheim, Panathinaikos, Molde. Beyond that I think Swansea could expect to beat most of the other teams in it. I think that suggests Swansea could realistically be a top 8 side in the ECL, and as a result that would put them as potentially strong enough to reach a quarter final. I don't think that's unrealistic at all! Beyond that it's a coin toss, however it's no inconceivable that they could reach the semis or the final. I think it's likely that they'd come up against a better side than them in the semis/final, so winning the whole thing is probably quite unlikely, but you never know. If they did win that would be a pathway into the Europa League too, which is an interesting hypothetical! Good points. Finishing in the top 8 means a seeded tie in the round of 16 not the quarters, but a quarter final is a distinct possibility. I imagine Cardiff would be similarly competitive and Wrexham would have a good chance of making the playoffs for the teams finishing 9th to 24th. Completely agree, even think Newport would have a good chance of qualifying and getting out of the League Phase |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 1, 2024 0:09:50 GMT
Some of the English clubs maybe will complain especially if the clubs got millions in prize money & giving them a financial advantage? All the more English tears for us to dine on |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 1, 2024 8:35:48 GMT
Does it not "steal" a European place from a Cymru Premier team who are plying their trade in the league week in week out? Agree & what about the thousands of volunteers who work for nothing to try to take the local club to the highest possible level only to get one of the Euro places taken by the league teams. That's all well and good but it would limit the growth of the league, which is bad for Welsh football. Also there is also a league space available to non-league winners, so it's not like it's always going to be TNS + EFL club, the best of the rest will be in there too. It just means clubs will have to compete hard to earn that spot |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 11, 2024 12:17:19 GMT
This idea is reportedly set to be blocked by the English FA, who have cited fixture scheduling and unfair revenue advantages as the reasons for this
|
|
|
|
Post by talyfan on Nov 11, 2024 15:56:32 GMT
Weird they'd say fixtures scheduling. I suppose it doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem.
I remember my team Wigan winning the FA Cup and were relegated.
Following season we played 62 matches.
1 community shield
46 in league
2 play off semi finals
6 Europa League matches
6 fa cup games (got to the semis)
1 league cup game
It's a hell of a lot of games! Suppose it's an anomaly but on top of 46 games those European matches could be brutal.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 11, 2024 16:13:03 GMT
This idea is reportedly set to be blocked by the English FA, who have cited fixture scheduling and unfair revenue advantages as the reasons for this That seems quite reasonable to be fair. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 11, 2024 17:02:05 GMT
Weird they'd say fixtures scheduling. I suppose it doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem. I remember my team Wigan winning the FA Cup and were relegated. Following season we played 62 matches. 1 community shield 46 in league 2 play off semi finals 6 Europa League matches 6 fa cup games (got to the semis) 1 league cup game It's a hell of a lot of games! Suppose it's an anomaly but on top of 46 games those European matches could be brutal. They didn't bar Wigan though - I wonder why not? I'm being a bit facetious but I think it's a classic case of England blocking something that doesn't benefit them or harm them in reality. We'd stand to gain from it and that's good enough reason to block it in their eyes |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 11, 2024 18:30:52 GMT
Weird they'd say fixtures scheduling. I suppose it doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem. I remember my team Wigan winning the FA Cup and were relegated. Following season we played 62 matches. 1 community shield 46 in league 2 play off semi finals 6 Europa League matches 6 fa cup games (got to the semis) 1 league cup game It's a hell of a lot of games! Suppose it's an anomaly but on top of 46 games those European matches could be brutal. They didn't bar Wigan though - I wonder why not? I'm being a bit facetious but I think it's a classic case of England blocking something that doesn't benefit them or harm them in reality. We'd stand to gain from it and that's good enough reason to block it in their eyes Nothing of the sort- Wigan won the FA cup, I’m sure if Wrexham won the FA cup they would be allowed to compete in Europe. What these clubs are trying to do is have the best of both worlds by having all the best of playing in the English football pyramid whilst taking advantage of the European places that the FA that they are notionally aligned with has available. Sort of the reverse of what you are suggesting the English FA are up to. The FA’s reasoning makes perfect sense. Only 4 of their member clubs have the option to compete for European spots via the FAW so it does present an unfair source of income. If the likes of Wrexham want to play in Europe then they can either join the Welsh pyramid or win the FA cup. |
|
|
|
Post by vvm on Nov 12, 2024 8:50:40 GMT
I thought the reason they went for the league cup rather than FA cup was because it was generally midweek, meaning they'd avoid any major scheduling issues. The unfair financial advantage does make sense though. Let's be fair, that's exactly what they're trying to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 12, 2024 9:19:58 GMT
This idea is reportedly set to be blocked by the English FA, who have cited fixture scheduling and unfair revenue advantages as the reasons for this But Championship teams - Birmingham 2011-12 and Wigan 2013-14 - have played in Europe before so there’s previous for this kind of thing, they just reschedule the midweek games in the weeks with no matches / EFL cup rounds once the sides have been knocked out. When it comes to revenue it’s laughable. You’ve got teams that have never played in the top flight, or not for decades, completing in the Championship with yo yo clubs! |
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 12, 2024 10:25:59 GMT
If we're using unfair financial advantages as a reason then I look forward to strict wage and transfer fee caps being implemented by the EFL as well as the full redistribution of parachute payments across every EFL club
You've got massive wage disparities in the Championship alone, with clubs spending 5 times more than others, it's a hugely unfair playing field.
Scheduling issues for other clubs is another laughable one, the EFL bend over backwards moving fixtures for Sky with little thought of the fans or clubs
|
|
