Formations

[Deleted]

My club who play in League One got tonked 6-1 tonight by a side from the league below. It is as I feared from the fall-out of the world cup, we are one of these sides trying to play this new 4-3-3 system in the lower tiers of the English pyramid and by all accounts the players havent got a bloody clue what they are doing.

So those of you who watch championship standard teams, what formation do your teams play? Is there a mass move in the aftermath of the world cup to adopt these new systems? Is there any evidence that championship sides can comfortably play 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, basically anything that isnt 4-4-2 or the basic 4-5-1 (ie it doesnt change to 4-3-3 when attacking)?

Unless we get evidence to support the versatility of British players I have to question playing these sorts of systems at international level when we still have to pick players from the championship and below.

[bale-droed]

because this is a formation topic one day id like to see this in a decent friendly and IMO it would be worth the test

Gk (take youre pick)

gunter williams collins ribeiro

collison king ramsey bale

church bellamy

pace to terrify any defence. as if it doesnt look tasty this old 442

[walrus]

I agree with you at one level storm and that is that British football is woefully behind. Chequebooks, physicality, half time team talks, tub thumping and managing through media conferences is the norm way after it was useful. Does that make Tosh a foolish don quixote for trying? Hmmm food for thought.

[flynnfan]

No, I don't think it makes Tosh a fool for trying at all. We've had years of 'up and at 'em, get in their faces' and lets face it- it's got us nowhere.

I remember when Toshack took charge for the first time and we lost that game 3- 1 to Norway. There was so much critisism from the press (particularly English if memory serves ) for trying to impose a continental style on players who just weren't used to playing that way for their clubs. I think at the time he probably thought; sod this, I'm actually trying to help and nobody wats to know so I'll just stay over here in Spain instead. This time, I think he's realised that things had to change from the grass roots up, which is why changing the intermediate set up and putting Flynn in charge of it all has been his great masterstroke. I think players are coming through the Welsh system now with a much, much clearer idea of what's expected of them if they are to make it as international footballers. And considering how good the U21s have consistantly been for the last 3 years, it appears to be working.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2010 14:25:57 GMT flynnfan said:

No, I don't think it makes Tosh a fool for trying at all. We've had years of 'up and at 'em, get in their faces' and lets face it- it's got us nowhere.

I remember when Toshack took charge for the first time and we lost that game 3- 1 to Norway. There was so much critisism from the press (particularly English if memory serves ) for trying to impose a continental style on players who just weren't used to playing that way for their clubs. I think at the time he probably thought; sod this, I'm actually trying to help and nobody wats to know so I'll just stay over here in Spain instead. This time, I think he's realised that things had to change from the grass roots up, which is why changing the intermediate set up and putting Flynn in charge of it all has been his great masterstroke. I think players are coming through the Welsh system now with a much, much clearer idea of what's expected of them if they are to make it as international footballers. And considering how good the U21s have consistantly been for the last 3 years, it appears to be working.

I dont think the under 21s play in a continental style though, the (admittedly few) times I have seen them they have played 4-4-2, passing, but always moving forward. And (I can hear a few people puking right now!) they play at a fast tempo. They get the ball, pass, pass, pass, shot at goal. Almost reminiscent of the way Germany played in the world cup. It was also similar in style to what we witnessed against Scotland, ironically not a typical Toshack performance and one that we have not managed to repeat.

As I have said elsewhere I admire Tosh in trying to change the way we play, but its been a long and painful process and we still dont look like we have cracked it. So if the clubs of the English league dont start supporting new methods of playing and crucially, proving that they have the players with the nous to adapt to these new roles then I think its never going to work for Wales. The few experimentations I have heard about in the Championship and below have not been good. I personally view player adaptability as a real issue as we still see signs of confusion today and it needs to be confronted if we are to make Tosh's system practical in the long term.

EDIT: I should add that maybe its time the under 21s started playing a Tosh-esque system to prepare them as under 21 football is less high profile and more forgiving with regards to rankings etc. This would help give them the grounding in that style of football, especially if they progress through the Wales youth system. Whether Flynn's style is exactly the reason why the under 21s have been successful is a debate for another thread...

[walrus]

Tosh has stated again that this will be his last campaign. If the first three games go pear shaped will he walk. Who will succeed and will the experiment be reversed slightly or all the way back to direct football regardless of the formation?

[flynnfan]

Going back to the formation, there's a bit of irony in the way Tosh, who was so critical of Sparky, now seems to be favouring the exact same formation that we used in the euro 2004 campaign- basically a 4-5-1 come 4-3-3 when we attack. Now, Morison is not as good a player as Hartson, so maybe we'll be weaker there, but other than that I think the system suits the players we have and there are a few reasons why it might prove a bit more succesful for longer this time

1- More strength in depth. The starting 11 was stronger in 2002, the squad wasn't though.
2- Better central midfielders. Probably the most important area of the pitch. We've got players better than Andy Johnson there now.
3- A proper midfield playmaker to come back in. I honestly believe Rambo will be a much more influential player for Wales than Giggs ever was.
4- U21s. A shambles until Flynn took charge. Players will step up with much more confidence now.

[Tim P]

Ramsey will have clubs sides built around him. Giggs has never had this - and there's good reason.

[llannerch]

Aug 11, 2010 14:25:57 GMT flynnfan said:

There was so much critisism from the press (particularly English if memory serves ) for trying to impose a continental style on players who just weren't used to playing that way for their clubs

He picked Jason Perry ....so the criticism was valid

[caradocevans]

4-5-1 is perfect for Wales. Thank gawd Tosh has ditched his 3 centre-halves and gone for an extra midfielder. It's our strongest department so that's where the emphasis should be.