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Post by njdragon on Sept 10, 2024 9:47:10 GMT
FWIW, I looked at the stats, and yeah it's a similar situation in recent years. However Darlow has like 250 league appearances since his career began, while Ward has around 100. They’ve had more or less the same in the last 10 years though so very similar situations (except of course for the fact that Danny Ward has an extra 40 odd Wales appearances in that time haha). Either way, the unfortunate fact remains is that both of them have spent the bulk of the 10 years or so on the bench Difference being Darlow is happy to go out on loan and to other clubs rather than bench warm for Newcastle. Ward has played a total of 1 club game in the last 2 years |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 10, 2024 9:53:17 GMT
Need to see him play again. Much of a muchness for me based off last night. Don't think any of the 3 we had called up are streets ahead of one and other.
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 10, 2024 10:17:59 GMT
Need to see him play again. Much of a muchness for me based off last night. Don't think any of the 3 we had called up are streets ahead of one and other. Yeah, the main plus is that Darlow is an upgrade on Tom King as one of the three keepers |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 10, 2024 10:22:16 GMT
I suspect Bellamy will continue to give Ward and Darlow a game each in each double header for the time being.
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Post by insertname on Sept 10, 2024 10:23:11 GMT
“Did nothing to deserve losing his place” Apart from the small matter of taking playing for Wales for granted by not seeking first team football. I won’t be crying any tears on his behalf if he never plays for Wales again because Darlow or whoever keeps him out of the side Wait until you see Darlow’s playing stats over the last few years. I take it you aren’t aware of Darlow’s almost identical situation? Of course I am- I’m the one who first posted about it to bring it to everyone’s attention (on the keeper watch thread) The clear difference is that Ward has been first choice for years despite largely being a reserve keeper at club level, and done nothing to seek first team football because he chose the money at Leicester (I don’t necessarily blame him, but I won’t feel sorry for him losing his Wales place). Darlow, by contrast, only became eligible close to the window closing. If being fair he deserves the same time (years) as Ward to find first team football before concluding his attitude is no better. |
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 11, 2024 9:50:04 GMT
Need to see him play again. Much of a muchness for me based off last night. Don't think any of the 3 we had called up are streets ahead of one and other. Yeah, the main plus is that Darlow is an upgrade on Tom King as one of the three keepers I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. All our keepers are over 30 with Darlow being the oldest. If he's in to be the number 1 thats fine, I think Tom King could make sense as we could get 2/3 more years out of him than Ward but we aren't half letting the river run dry. Not sure what we get from anything except immediate term for having 3 over 30's competing. Have Darlow, Ward and a 22/23 year old in there. Basically no one who's come through the U21's in the last 7/8 years has been any good. Not good on our end nurturing young talent. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 11, 2024 10:05:29 GMT
Yeah, the main plus is that Darlow is an upgrade on Tom King as one of the three keepers I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. All our keepers are over 30 with Darlow being the oldest. If he's in to be the number 1 thats fine, I think Tom King could make sense as we could get 2/3 more years out of him than Ward but we aren't half letting the river run dry. Not sure what we get from anything except immediate term for having 3 over 30's competing. Have Darlow, Ward and a 22/23 year old in there. Basically no one who's come through the U21's in the last 7/8 years has been any good. Not good on our end nurturing young talent. King's 29 so hardly a youngster and he's gone the same way as the others be being a backup at Wolves Does feel like we're pinning our hopes on Eddie Beach at this point |
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Post by iot on Sept 11, 2024 10:16:04 GMT
Personally, I didn't see anything to suggest Darlow's an upgrade on Ward. Made a couple of great saves, but also a couple of really wobbly moments. He put us in trouble on one occasion with his distribution, and then seemed to give up and went long for the rest of the evening - although accept that might be purely down to the conditions. Overall, I would retain Ward as no.1 for now, but give Darlow another shot in the next round to see what his distribution looks like in better conditions.
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Post by bringbackelmo on Sept 11, 2024 10:29:09 GMT
Personally, I didn't see anything to suggest Darlow's an upgrade on Ward. Made a couple of great saves, but also a couple of really wobbly moments. He put us in trouble on one occasion with his distribution, and then seemed to give up and went long for the rest of the evening - although accept that might be purely down to the conditions. Overall, I would retain Ward as no.1 for now, but give Darlow another shot in the next round to see what his distribution looks like in better conditions. I completely agree, tough conditions but I was surprised to see so many raving about him. |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 11, 2024 10:47:53 GMT
King basically a glorified goalkeeper assistant coach. Listened to a podcast he was on and that was the general jist of his role there even more so now as he's basically fourth choice.
Within the last 10 years probably the most successful goalkeeper we have produced from age grade sides is Owen Evans whose soon to be 28 probably at his level in League 2. Beyond that it's basically wilderness under the age of 28!
Think the only keeper under the age of 28 to play regularly for a professional club was Nathan Shepperd when he was at Dundalk in Ireland. Made almost 80 appearances for them and he's without a club at the minute. Jury still out on Barden, Beach, Benjamin and the like.
The key issue is gametime (same applies to the seniors!), quite a few just play within the youth sides for years and get released as they've little senior experience to be relied on to play. Or they do go out on loan to but don't get minutes. What I'm seeing more of is League One and League Two clubs signing a young goalkeeper from Prem/Champ on loan and then said Lg 1/Lg 2 club sending their young goalkeepers to lower league teams where they end up playing! Both Barden and Beech have fallen victim of that by the looks of it and they'd almost be better going to play in the Conference or Conference North/South where the goalkeepers they've replaced end up!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 11, 2024 10:50:23 GMT
I'd wanna see Darlow play the next home game and then I will judge him. Too harsh to judge anyone on the basis of that last game
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 11, 2024 10:54:07 GMT
King basically a glorified goalkeeper assistant coach. Listened to a podcast he was on and that was the general jist of his role there even more so now as he's basically fourth choice. Within the last 10 years probably the most successful goalkeeper we have produced from age grade sides is Owen Evans whose soon to be 28 probably at his level in League 2. Beyond that it's basically wilderness under the age of 28! Think the only keeper under the age of 28 to play regularly for a professional club was Nathan Shepperd when he was at Dundalk in Ireland. Made almost 80 appearances for them and he's without a club at the minute. Jury still out on Barden, Beach, Benjamin and the like. The key issue is gametime (same applies to the seniors!), quite a few just play within the youth sides for years and get released as they've little senior experience to be relied on to play. Or they do go out on loan to but don't get minutes. What I'm seeing more of is League One and League Two clubs signing a young goalkeeper from Prem/Champ on loan and then said Lg 1/Lg 2 club sending their young goalkeepers to lower league teams where they end up playing! Both Barden and Beech have fallen victim of that by the looks of it and they'd almost be better going to play in the Conference or Conference North/South where the goalkeepers they've replaced end up! This is it - I was very surprised to see Beach doing this. I'd have thought the FAW would be saying to him "GET MINUTES!!", what's the point being on the bench in League One when you could be playing in League Two or the National League. Hell, even the Cymru Premier! It's really frustrating, I just really hope Darlow gets a loan as I think that's our most realistic chance of having a playing GK in the top two (or three) divisions. Ward & Davies won't budge, so it's on Darlow to step up and make the spot his own |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 11, 2024 12:11:40 GMT
It'll be an interesting few years for Welsh goalkeepers. Danny Ward, Adam Davies, and Karl Darlow all between 31-34. That's 3 potential keepers that could all retire in a short time frame if we're not careful. I think people forget it's not 1 keeper we're needing to replace it'll be 3 sooner or later. Potentially a very inexperienced 3 too replacing them at this rate.
I would start call up a youngster at third choice for now help bridge the gap
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Post by dai on Sept 11, 2024 12:27:36 GMT
Who else thinks Bellamy might throw a curve ball and try Davies in the next fixture? It would only be fair really. Looking at the stats, he actually has double the senior appearances that Ward has.
I'm still of the opinion that Bellamy will make Darlow no1 though. Maybe that was the dangled carrot that made him accept a call up?
I think the ship has sailed for Ward now, I'm not sure you can continue award an international no1 shirt to a keeper who's not interested at all in playing club football.
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Post by insertname on Sept 11, 2024 13:00:12 GMT
King basically a glorified goalkeeper assistant coach. Listened to a podcast he was on and that was the general jist of his role there even more so now as he's basically fourth choice. Within the last 10 years probably the most successful goalkeeper we have produced from age grade sides is Owen Evans whose soon to be 28 probably at his level in League 2. Beyond that it's basically wilderness under the age of 28! Think the only keeper under the age of 28 to play regularly for a professional club was Nathan Shepperd when he was at Dundalk in Ireland. Made almost 80 appearances for them and he's without a club at the minute. Jury still out on Barden, Beach, Benjamin and the like. The key issue is gametime (same applies to the seniors!), quite a few just play within the youth sides for years and get released as they've little senior experience to be relied on to play. Or they do go out on loan to but don't get minutes. What I'm seeing more of is League One and League Two clubs signing a young goalkeeper from Prem/Champ on loan and then said Lg 1/Lg 2 club sending their young goalkeepers to lower league teams where they end up playing! Both Barden and Beech have fallen victim of that by the looks of it and they'd almost be better going to play in the Conference or Conference North/South where the goalkeepers they've replaced end up! This is probably because EFL rules offer an advantage to doing so. If your first choice goalkeeper gets injured and you have a reserve with a certain number of games experience you are obliged to play them. If the sub keeper is a veritable rookie you qualify for an emergency loan so clubs have cottoned on to the fact that they can save money on reserve keeper wages by loaning in youths who have never played a game, send their reserve keeper (who probably has some form of FL experience) to non-league and then have the entitlement to sign an experienced pro if they get into trouble. They can’t lose. I expect this loophole to be closed in the future as it’s farcical. My club has a highly rated young keeper and we have sent him to non league so that we can sign a reserve from the championship and have a further rookie reserve as backup who we clearly have no intention to play just use as a placeholder to game the system if the first choice gets injured. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 11, 2024 14:09:46 GMT
Who else thinks Bellamy might throw a curve ball and try Davies in the next fixture? It would only be fair really. Looking at the stats, he actually has double the senior appearances that Ward has. I'm still of the opinion that Bellamy will make Darlow no1 though. Maybe that was the dangled carrot that made him accept a call up? I think the ship has sailed for Ward now, I'm not sure you can continue award an international no1 shirt to a keeper who's not interested at all in playing club football. This is the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Are you really saying Ward shouldn't be selected as punishment for being on the bench for his club? The only consideration at the end of the day is who is the most capable goalie we have at our disposal. Right now it's a toss up between Ward and Darlow. It's good that we have that competition. |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 11, 2024 14:28:26 GMT
King basically a glorified goalkeeper assistant coach. Listened to a podcast he was on and that was the general jist of his role there even more so now as he's basically fourth choice. Within the last 10 years probably the most successful goalkeeper we have produced from age grade sides is Owen Evans whose soon to be 28 probably at his level in League 2. Beyond that it's basically wilderness under the age of 28! Think the only keeper under the age of 28 to play regularly for a professional club was Nathan Shepperd when he was at Dundalk in Ireland. Made almost 80 appearances for them and he's without a club at the minute. Jury still out on Barden, Beach, Benjamin and the like. The key issue is gametime (same applies to the seniors!), quite a few just play within the youth sides for years and get released as they've little senior experience to be relied on to play. Or they do go out on loan to but don't get minutes. What I'm seeing more of is League One and League Two clubs signing a young goalkeeper from Prem/Champ on loan and then said Lg 1/Lg 2 club sending their young goalkeepers to lower league teams where they end up playing! Both Barden and Beech have fallen victim of that by the looks of it and they'd almost be better going to play in the Conference or Conference North/South where the goalkeepers they've replaced end up! This is probably because EFL rules offer an advantage to doing so. If your first choice goalkeeper gets injured and you have a reserve with a certain number of games experience you are obliged to play them. If the sub keeper is a veritable rookie you qualify for an emergency loan so clubs have cottoned on to the fact that they can save money on reserve keeper wages by loaning in youths who have never played a game, send their reserve keeper (who probably has some form of FL experience) to non-league and then have the entitlement to sign an experienced pro if they get into trouble. They can’t lose. I expect this loophole to be closed in the future as it’s farcical. My club has a highly rated young keeper and we have sent him to non league so that we can sign a reserve from the championship and have a further rookie reserve as backup who we clearly have no intention to play just use as a placeholder to game the system if the first choice gets injured. Wasn't aware of that ruling does add up why we're seeing it more, assuming the club of the loanee is probably covering all the wages too. Beach and Barden aren't deemed professional goalkeepers according to the ruling. GuidanceA Professional Goalkeeper is a goalkeeper (excluding any goalkeeper registered as a Non-Contract Player) who has been named in the starting eleven on five or more occasions by:
any Club (or Premier League club) in any matches in the relevant league or first team cup competitions (other than the EFL Trophy); and/or
any other club in a professional league in that club’s home association (by way of example, any division of the Scottish Professional Football League, or Serie A, B or C). |
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 11, 2024 14:51:39 GMT
Who else thinks Bellamy might throw a curve ball and try Davies in the next fixture? It would only be fair really. Looking at the stats, he actually has double the senior appearances that Ward has. I'm still of the opinion that Bellamy will make Darlow no1 though. Maybe that was the dangled carrot that made him accept a call up? I think the ship has sailed for Ward now, I'm not sure you can continue award an international no1 shirt to a keeper who's not interested at all in playing club football. Am I living in an alternate reality where no one realises that Darlow also isn’t playing club football? Several people on here keep mentioning that Darlow should be in instead of aware because Ward isn’t getting match time, it’s bizarre. |
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Post by dai on Sept 11, 2024 15:20:57 GMT
Who else thinks Bellamy might throw a curve ball and try Davies in the next fixture? It would only be fair really. Looking at the stats, he actually has double the senior appearances that Ward has. I'm still of the opinion that Bellamy will make Darlow no1 though. Maybe that was the dangled carrot that made him accept a call up? I think the ship has sailed for Ward now, I'm not sure you can continue award an international no1 shirt to a keeper who's not interested at all in playing club football. Am I living in an alternate reality where no one realises that Darlow also isn’t playing club football? Several people on here keep mentioning that Darlow should be in instead of aware because Ward isn’t getting match time, it’s bizarre. Perfectly aware. However he HAS played a lot more football than Ward, and so has Davies. Ward has never imo looked convincing or commanding. Why are you opposed to using a different keeper to Ward? |
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 11, 2024 15:33:16 GMT
Am I living in an alternate reality where no one realises that Darlow also isn’t playing club football? Several people on here keep mentioning that Darlow should be in instead of aware because Ward isn’t getting match time, it’s bizarre. Perfectly aware. However he HAS played a lot more football than Ward, and so has Davies. Ward has never imo looked convincing or commanding. Why are you opposed to using a different keeper to Ward? I’m not opposed to using a different keeper to Ward, where did you get that from? In fact I’m actively praying that we get an alternative to Ward because he’s not playing league football. Im quite happy for anyone to say that Darlow should be in instead of Ward because they think he’s a better keeper. What I am opposed to is people saying that we should pick Darlow instead of Ward because Ward spends too much time not playing, when that is exactly where Darlow has spent the bulk of the last few years. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 11, 2024 16:26:47 GMT
Perfectly aware. However he HAS played a lot more football than Ward, and so has Davies. Ward has never imo looked convincing or commanding. Why are you opposed to using a different keeper to Ward? I’m not opposed to using a different keeper to Ward, where did you get that from? In fact I’m actively praying that we get an alternative to Ward because he’s not playing league football. Im quite happy for anyone to say that Darlow should be in instead of Ward because they think he’s a better keeper. What I am opposed to is people saying that we should pick Darlow instead of Ward because Ward spends too much time not playing, when that is exactly where Darlow has spent the bulk of the last few years. Darlow has played something like 14 league games in 2 years whereas ward has played 1 cup match. Not amazing I know but he’s looking for first team football, he signed a contract at Newcastle until 2025 but he chose to look for first team football. Ward is what third choice keeper whereas darlow has a chance of playing for Leeds this season |
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Post by insertname on Sept 11, 2024 17:49:32 GMT
This is probably because EFL rules offer an advantage to doing so. If your first choice goalkeeper gets injured and you have a reserve with a certain number of games experience you are obliged to play them. If the sub keeper is a veritable rookie you qualify for an emergency loan so clubs have cottoned on to the fact that they can save money on reserve keeper wages by loaning in youths who have never played a game, send their reserve keeper (who probably has some form of FL experience) to non-league and then have the entitlement to sign an experienced pro if they get into trouble. They can’t lose. I expect this loophole to be closed in the future as it’s farcical. My club has a highly rated young keeper and we have sent him to non league so that we can sign a reserve from the championship and have a further rookie reserve as backup who we clearly have no intention to play just use as a placeholder to game the system if the first choice gets injured. Wasn't aware of that ruling does add up why we're seeing it more, assuming the club of the loanee is probably covering all the wages too. Beach and Barden aren't deemed professional goalkeepers according to the ruling. GuidanceA Professional Goalkeeper is a goalkeeper (excluding any goalkeeper registered as a Non-Contract Player) who has been named in the starting eleven on five or more occasions by:
any Club (or Premier League club) in any matches in the relevant league or first team cup competitions (other than the EFL Trophy); and/or
any other club in a professional league in that club’s home association (by way of example, any division of the Scottish Professional Football League, or Serie A, B or C).Yeah, I wonder how it was sold to them by their agent? Because the reality is that if the number 1 gets injured they still aren’t likely to play. They have made the odd league cup/auto-windscreens appearance but that’s all they’ll get. It’s somewhat pointless taking a loan where even if the number 1 gets injured the whole point of the loan is that you still won’t play a league game. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 11, 2024 17:56:03 GMT
Who else thinks Bellamy might throw a curve ball and try Davies in the next fixture? It would only be fair really. Looking at the stats, he actually has double the senior appearances that Ward has. I'm still of the opinion that Bellamy will make Darlow no1 though. Maybe that was the dangled carrot that made him accept a call up? I think the ship has sailed for Ward now, I'm not sure you can continue award an international no1 shirt to a keeper who's not interested at all in playing club football. Am I living in an alternate reality where no one realises that Darlow also isn’t playing club football? Several people on here keep mentioning that Darlow should be in instead of aware because Ward isn’t getting match time, it’s bizarre. You’re just not understanding the difference which I’ve already tried to explain: we already know that Ward is a waste of time as first choice and needs replacing because he isn’t interested in playing club football. Darlow has been given little to no time between his call up and the closure of the window to find first team football. On that basis Darlow should be number one for the time being pending whether he seeks first team football in January/the summer or whether another Welsh qualified keeper gets first team football. You can’t keep rewarding Ward with caps for not being arsed about being a first team player. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 11, 2024 18:16:43 GMT
Am I living in an alternate reality where no one realises that Darlow also isn’t playing club football? Several people on here keep mentioning that Darlow should be in instead of aware because Ward isn’t getting match time, it’s bizarre. You’re just not understanding the difference which I’ve already tried to explain: we already know that Ward is a waste of time as first choice and needs replacing because he isn’t interested in playing club football. Darlow has been given little to no time between his call up and the closure of the window to find first team football. On that basis Darlow should be number one for the time being pending whether he seeks first team football in January/the summer or whether another Welsh qualified keeper gets first team football. You can’t keep rewarding Ward with caps for not being arsed about being a first team player. I'm sorry but this is bonkers logic. So we shouldn't select players on the basis of merit but rather on the basis of a comparison of how much time they spend on the bench for their club sides? I'm unclear who is the best goalie right now, although incumbency probably favours Ward, plus I suspect he's a bit better with his distribution. But if Bellamy continues to alternate the goalies for now until a clear candidate for no 1 emerges I'm happy with that. |
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Post by melynwy on Sept 11, 2024 18:20:30 GMT
For my money Darlow seemed a significant upgrade on Ward, and even in those atrocious conditions he seemed at least as comfortable with his feet as Ward is on a good pitch.
That double save was borderline miraculous, I’m surprised it hasn’t been discussed more. Best save by a Welsh GK in years! I remember Boaz Myhill making a stunning save 10 years or so ago- Darlow’s is the best I’ve seen since then, and was probably better (granted, Hennessey and Ward have probably made more important saves!)
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Post by melynwy on Sept 11, 2024 18:23:13 GMT
You’re just not understanding the difference which I’ve already tried to explain: we already know that Ward is a waste of time as first choice and needs replacing because he isn’t interested in playing club football. Darlow has been given little to no time between his call up and the closure of the window to find first team football. On that basis Darlow should be number one for the time being pending whether he seeks first team football in January/the summer or whether another Welsh qualified keeper gets first team football. You can’t keep rewarding Ward with caps for not being arsed about being a first team player. I'm sorry but this is bonkers logic. So we shouldn't select players on the basis of merit but rather on the basis of a comparison of how much time they spend on the bench for their club sides? I'm unclear who is the best goalie right now, although incumbency probably favours Ward, plus I suspect he's a bit better with his distribution. But if Bellamy continues to alternate the goalies for now until a clear candidate for no 1 emerges I'm happy with that. Ward is about as poor with his feet as you can get with a 1st/2nd tier GK. I’d say Darlow, whilst far from being Victor Valdes, is definitely a step up. |
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Post by dragon64 on Sept 11, 2024 18:52:23 GMT
For my money Darlow seemed a significant upgrade on Ward, and even in those atrocious conditions he seemed at least as comfortable with his feet as Ward is on a good pitch. That double save was borderline miraculous, I’m surprised it hasn’t been discussed more. Best save by a Welsh GK in years! I remember Boaz Myhill making a stunning save 10 years or so ago- Darlow’s is the best I’ve seen since then, and was probably better (granted, Hennessey and Ward have probably made more important saves!) yes I agree I think he will be the no.1 going forward now |
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Post by surge on Sept 11, 2024 19:05:42 GMT
When David De Gea joined Man United he was recognised as being good with his feet but by the end of his time, as others caught up and overtook him, it was said to be one of his weaknesses.
Ward's chipped balls out to full-backs just inside the sidelines is one of his strengths.
But we're not looking for one goalie, we're looking for two plus right now and two plus in the next generation. There is time to assess and get right first choice while also building up the depth needed, although less time than we would ideally like.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 11, 2024 19:17:36 GMT
The initial save from Roberts was terrific reflexes, the second hit him in the face, but credit to him for making himself big. His save from the stooping header was better in my opinion.
I think Ward's distribution is underrated, but overall there's currently very little to choose between them.
Ward completed 83% of his passes compared to 67% for Darlow. For long passes the figures were 45% and 33%.
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Post by melynwy on Sept 11, 2024 19:25:02 GMT
The initial save from Roberts was terrific reflexes, the second hit him in the face, but credit to him for making himself big. His save from the stooping header was better in my opinion. I think Ward's distribution is underrated, but overall there's currently very little to choose between them. Ward completed 83% of his passes compared to 67% for Darlow. For long passes the figures were 45% and 33%. Well yeah, to be fair the game plan went out of the window in those conditions so they reverted to going long! |
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