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Post by mrpicton79 on Jul 18, 2023 11:39:13 GMT
Chicken and the egg. You could say they only get the crowds they do because of the more illustrious opposition they play week in week out in the English league. Safe assumption those crowds dwindle to a few hundred if they're playing Connah's Quay Nomads and Haverfordwest County every week. As for "European football", let's be brutally honest here... for the CP sides it's realistically a couple of games a season against teams from Macedonia or Iceland etc before going back to the domestic grind. I'm not denigrating the league there but we have to be realistic about the contrast in the rewards of playing in the respective pyramids. Opposition such as AFC Totton, Didcot Town, and Harrow Borough? So illustrious! C'mon, if they played in the Cymru Prem at least they'd have local derbies. Merthyr v Barry would be a massive game and much bigger than any game they play in the 7th tier of English football against no-mark English towns and villages they have no connection to or history with. And regarding Europe, obviously at present the Welsh teams are struggling to make their mark, but that's mostly because of the current semi-professional state of the league. The reason people want Merthyr to join is to help improve the quality of the league, boost attendances, hopefully leading to more pro clubs and therefore better performances in Europe. And with the new Europa Conference League we have a good chance of qualifying for the group stage over the coming years. Let's put it this way, a team of Merthyr's size in the Cymru Prem has a much better chance of qualifying for the group stage of the Europa Conference than Merthyr have of reaching the EFL or even the National League in England. Obviously I was talking about Newport, which is what the thread is about. If we're talking about Merthyr then yes I would agree they may be at the point now where they would be better off in the Welsh system. |
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Post by gimli on Jul 18, 2023 14:11:18 GMT
Obviously I was talking about Newport, which is what the thread is about. If we're talking about Merthyr then yes I would agree they may be at the point now where they would be better off in the Welsh system. Apologies, saw the post above yours mention Merthyr and got my wires crossed! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 18, 2023 23:35:50 GMT
Colwyn Bay and Barry will be excellent additions to the top flight. Merthyr would be too. Plenty of populous towns in Wales that have potential to be good top flight teams; Bangor, Rhyl, Llandudno, Llanelli, Carmarthen, Neath, Port Talbot. If any of these teams have an upturn they will all be additions to the top flight. You'd like to see a scenario where the Cymru South/North clubs put real pressure on some of the top flight clubs
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Post by raptor on Jul 20, 2023 6:43:52 GMT
Even with the garish sponsor, the new shirt is an absolute beauty I like it too, and asked if I could get one without the sponsor's logo. They refused, so I didn't get one. |
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Post by raptor on Jul 20, 2023 6:45:28 GMT
Hi, first time here for ages. I'm a County fan, we would've been in the brown stuff ages ago if it wasn't for the cup runs. But no matter how sticky the brown stuff gets you wont find 10 County fans who would want to join the Welsh Football pyramid. I'm not going back over why, it's been done to death. Good luck to Wrexham this year. People said about us joining the Welsh system when we were in the brown stuff. The possibilities to clubs are far greater in the English system than they are in the Welsh, that's the harsh reality. In the English system, a few good seasons could see your club at the same level as some of the world's most elite clubs. Just look at Luton. I'd love the Welsh system to be more competitive than the lower English football league but it's just nowhere close and that's the very top level a club in that system can aspire to (also Europe but being realistic, the main tournament is still a long way off achievable). If the 5 clubs in the English system sacked off the English system there'd maybe be some possibility of development but there's no chance of that either. All good thanks, I hope all is well with you. |
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Post by raptor on Jul 20, 2023 6:51:10 GMT
What would you and raptor say about Merthyr though? In a very different position to both Wrecsam and Newport It's easy to see Wrecsam/Newport go from non-league to League One/Champ in the right set of circumstances. Obviously that's better for Welsh football than them moving over However, Merthyr in the 7th tier are a million miles away from League Two. Colwyn Bay were in the same tier in England but have taken the plunge to the Cymru leagues and are benefitting. Looks like they will be a real asset to the top flight too. Merthyr could have a similar impact as a well supported club within a unique populous area. Can't really see where they go from here in the English system but can see them in Europe if they move over Obviously I'm not a fan and it's not up to me. But what do you guys think, should they be sticking it out or moving over? I think Merthyr would benefit more from the move to the Welsh system. They've never played in the EFL and their current situation doesn't indicate that will change soon. The other 4 clubs, all of which now EFL, have far more potential and are better for Welsh football being where they are. I'd like to see Merthyr remain where they are. FGR are virtually a village/very small town team - they made it! MTFC have better teams than Newport at times, since the 70s (from personal re-collection). Merthyr's choice though. |
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Post by raptor on Jul 20, 2023 6:58:11 GMT
Colwyn Bay and Barry will be excellent additions to the top flight. Merthyr would be too. Plenty of populous towns in Wales that have potential to be good top flight teams; Bangor, Rhyl, Llandudno, Llanelli, Carmarthen, Neath, Port Talbot. If any of these teams have an upturn they will all be additions to the top flight. You'd like to see a scenario where the Cymru South/North clubs put real pressure on some of the top flight clubs Personally, I'd like to see a Pontypool team  Only local leagues there. Undy and Blaenafon Blues to rise up the ranks too. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jul 20, 2023 7:17:46 GMT
I think Merthyr would benefit more from the move to the Welsh system. They've never played in the EFL and their current situation doesn't indicate that will change soon. The other 4 clubs, all of which now EFL, have far more potential and are better for Welsh football being where they are. I'd like to see Merthyr remain where they are. FGR are virtually a village/very small town team - they made it! MTFC have better teams than Newport at times, since the 70s (from personal re-collection). Merthyr's choice though. They did make it to the EFL but only with large financial backing. Merthyr will need to drop very lucky for that to happen. Sutton and Barrow would probably be better examples to use. They had backers but not to the extent of FGR, Fleetwood or Crawley. |
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rncfc
the carls
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Post by rncfc on Jul 21, 2023 12:10:35 GMT
They almost got into League One a few times so that's a bit unfair. That said, its a tough area in terms of catchment area when you have Bristol on one side and Cardiff on the other. You can't really see them going any higher without a rich benefactor coming in. Just a run of the mill English lower league club really, no shame in that in a way. They'd baulk at the idea, but they could benefit a lot from playing in the Welsh system and benefitting from European money. League two income wouldn't represent the kind of financial drop that Cardiff/Swansea would see from jumping over. I'm pretty certain that TNS make substantially more in prize money over a season than Newport do. Throw in Newport's naturally higher crowds and you have a solid European club there. We receive more in annual, guaranteed funding from the Premier League and EPL than TNS would get in 2 European seasons. I think it's over £1m a year we receive in funding now. Add in the FA Cup runs in recent years and it really is no competition. We're a near £4m a year turnover business now, getting crowds of between 4,000 and 5,000 even when we're crap. That would fall to 400-500 in the WPL, no doubt. I wouldn't be against the Welsh pyramid if Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and Merthyr were all forced to join as well. But given the choice, I (and I'm sure almost everyone else who supports the club) would prefer to stay where we are. It's a no-brainer. We've had a difficult few weeks off the back of 10-12 years of almost uninterrupted success, I'll take that. |
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Post by garynysmon on Jul 21, 2023 12:26:54 GMT
We're a near £4m a year turnover business now, getting crowds of between 4,000 and 5,000 even when we're crap. That would fall to 400-500 in the WPL, no doubt.This is the part I always struggle with. I can only put this down to people seeing the average attendances in the Cymru Premier and for some reason coming to the conclusion like its somehow illegal for anyone to get bigger crowds in the league. But Airbus get crowds of 200 because they're bloody Airbus! But if Colwyn Bay will have a much higher average attendance than 4-500 next season, on what planet are we going to claim that Newport are a smaller club? It makes no sense whatsoever. Yes club attendances can vary according to opposition and the importance of a game, but to lose 90% of your fanbase because you move league?! With all due respect they aren't exactly playing Real Madrid and Barcelona every week. |
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Post by raptor on Jul 22, 2023 6:35:09 GMT
We're a near £4m a year turnover business now, getting crowds of between 4,000 and 5,000 even when we're crap. That would fall to 400-500 in the WPL, no doubt.This is the part I always struggle with. I can only put this down to people seeing the average attendances in the Cymru Premier and for some reason coming to the conclusion like its somehow illegal for anyone to get bigger crowds in the league. But Airbus get crowds of 200 because they're bloody Airbus! But if Colwyn Bay will have a much higher average attendance than 4-500 next season, on what planet are we going to claim that Newport are a smaller club? It makes no sense whatsoever. Yes club attendances can vary according to opposition and the importance of a game, but to lose 90% of your fanbase because you move league?! With all due respect they aren't exactly playing Real Madrid and Barcelona every week. You can make all sorts of reasonable comments and solid arguments, as to why joining the Welsh pyramid is a good idea for everyone. But the fact is next to no one wants it. I wouldn't want it even if Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff joined up. Would be great to see the Welsh Cup back to how it was though. I know - a penny and bun scenario. |
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rncfc
the carls
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Post by rncfc on Jul 23, 2023 8:27:27 GMT
We're a near £4m a year turnover business now, getting crowds of between 4,000 and 5,000 even when we're crap. That would fall to 400-500 in the WPL, no doubt.This is the part I always struggle with. I can only put this down to people seeing the average attendances in the Cymru Premier and for some reason coming to the conclusion like its somehow illegal for anyone to get bigger crowds in the league. But Airbus get crowds of 200 because they're bloody Airbus! But if Colwyn Bay will have a much higher average attendance than 4-500 next season, on what planet are we going to claim that Newport are a smaller club? It makes no sense whatsoever. Yes club attendances can vary according to opposition and the importance of a game, but to lose 90% of your fanbase because you move league?! With all due respect they aren't exactly playing Real Madrid and Barcelona every week. The history would play a big part. 400-500 might actually be optimistic. If it ever happened I don't personally think there would even be enough appetite to have a Newport County team. I'd say a more likely outcome would be Newport & Monmouthshire County based about 5 inches over the border. I've seen us get crowds of a few hundred in the fairly recent past, against teams broadly at the level of the WPL. The people of Newport just don't want it. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 23, 2023 13:07:02 GMT
This is the part I always struggle with. I can only put this down to people seeing the average attendances in the Cymru Premier and for some reason coming to the conclusion like its somehow illegal for anyone to get bigger crowds in the league. But Airbus get crowds of 200 because they're bloody Airbus! But if Colwyn Bay will have a much higher average attendance than 4-500 next season, on what planet are we going to claim that Newport are a smaller club? It makes no sense whatsoever. Yes club attendances can vary according to opposition and the importance of a game, but to lose 90% of your fanbase because you move league?! With all due respect they aren't exactly playing Real Madrid and Barcelona every week. The history would play a big part. 400-500 might actually be optimistic. If it ever happened I don't personally think there would even be enough appetite to have a Newport County team. I'd say a more likely outcome would be Newport & Monmouthshire County based about 5 inches over the border. I've seen us get crowds of a few hundred in the fairly recent past, against teams broadly at the level of the WPL. The people of Newport just don't want it. If it did happen where would the fans go if you think they wouldn't be watching Newport in the Cymru Premier?? |
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Post by jimbo82 on Jul 23, 2023 13:31:30 GMT
The history would play a big part. 400-500 might actually be optimistic. If it ever happened I don't personally think there would even be enough appetite to have a Newport County team. I'd say a more likely outcome would be Newport & Monmouthshire County based about 5 inches over the border. I've seen us get crowds of a few hundred in the fairly recent past, against teams broadly at the level of the WPL. The people of Newport just don't want it. If it did happen where would the fans go if you think they wouldn't be watching Newport in the Cymru Premier?? This page is interesting - it shows average attendance year by year. Attendances were below 1k until Newport got into the Conference Premier. I imagine the other 3000 current fans were either watching Cardiff (many having grown up with no professional football in Newport), watching Man Ud on TV or even watching the Newport Gwent Dragons. european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newc.htmSimilarly when Cardiff and Swansea (and Wrexham)were in the 4th tier in the late 90s crowds were sometimes as low as ~2000. Fast forward a few years to when they were in the upper Championship/Premiership and crowds rocketed to 20,000+ I'm a big fan of the Cymru Premier but it's currently just not attractive enough to draw in big crowds - due to poor standard of opposition (part-time players), general low attendance (you won't see 500+ away fans as you would in the Football League) and general poor facilities (some stadiums only have a capacity around 1500). Obviously that could change given time, but if you parachuted the "Big 4" (plus Merthyr) in I'd estimate crowds of maybe 2-3000 for the big clubs when they play each other, but maybe more like 1500 against the part-timers. Maybe a Cardiff-Swansea derby would draw 6-10k. The other 18000 at Cardiff and Swansea I imagine would return to watching EPL teams from their armchairs - although I'd love to be proved wrong! |
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Jul 23, 2023 13:32:12 GMT
I think Merthyr would benefit more from the move to the Welsh system. They've never played in the EFL and their current situation doesn't indicate that will change soon. The other 4 clubs, all of which now EFL, have far more potential and are better for Welsh football being where they are. I'd like to see Merthyr remain where they are. FGR are virtually a village/very small town team - they made it! MTFC have better teams than Newport at times, since the 70s (from personal re-collection). Merthyr's choice though. Fgr is a not even close to Newport and merthyr, was there last season and shocked how small the are us. Well done to them mind, great away to even tho hard to get to. Likes of Newport can out shine FGR with the backing As for Welsh league it would be a step back to grow bigger in future. League of Wales has long way to go. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 23, 2023 23:56:35 GMT
If it did happen where would the fans go if you think they wouldn't be watching Newport in the Cymru Premier?? This page is interesting - it shows average attendance year by year. Attendances were below 1k until Newport got into the Conference Premier. I imagine the other 3000 current fans were either watching Cardiff (many having grown up with no professional football in Newport), watching Man Ud on TV or even watching the Newport Gwent Dragons. european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newc.htmSimilarly when Cardiff and Swansea (and Wrexham)were in the 4th tier in the late 90s crowds were sometimes as low as ~2000. Fast forward a few years to when they were in the upper Championship/Premiership and crowds rocketed to 20,000+ I'm a big fan of the Cymru Premier but it's currently just not attractive enough to draw in big crowds - due to poor standard of opposition (part-time players), general low attendance (you won't see 500+ away fans as you would in the Football League) and general poor facilities (some stadiums only have a capacity around 1500). Obviously that could change given time, but if you parachuted the "Big 4" (plus Merthyr) in I'd estimate crowds of maybe 2-3000 for the big clubs when they play each other, but maybe more like 1500 against the part-timers. Maybe a Cardiff-Swansea derby would draw 6-10k. The other 18000 at Cardiff and Swansea I imagine would return to watching EPL teams from their armchairs - although I'd love to be proved wrong! Growth doesn't necessarily work the same in both directions. Once a fan base grows it rarely just disappears out of thin air Of course teams like Cardiff and Swansea could sell out their stadiums in the Premier League due to the success, and at a low-ebb their crowds are lower. If they were relegated to League One the average attendance would drop again. But the people who support the club haven't disappeared, and even if people attend less frequently they still want to attend for the experience on occasion. Same goes for Newport, as you've evidenced their attendance was lower further down the pyramid, but now they've built up their support to 4-5k average So then you have to think about how those people would act in a different hypothetical, you're saying they would all return to their armchairs, but what about the people who genuinely just love watching live football or genuinely love the club. I'm not saying the crowds wouldn't take a hit, but I don't think all of those additional fans would just accept never watching live football. It would just be that they maybe attend a handful of games instead of 75% of games. I think Newport would be the best supported club in the Cymru Premier and I think they could average over 1000 You've also got to consider the fact that for European games Newport would likely exceed the home attendances in League Two. Last season their biggest attendance was 5k. Given we've seen Penybont post up a demand for around 8k tickets for their European match, I think it's fair to say you'd be looking at sell-out demands for Newport. If they did well, or even if they managed to qualify for the Conference League (quite a likely thing to happen), then you're talking about about 5-10 games of bumper crowds. Whereas if they go on a cup run they might get 2-3 and that's it, and that wouldn't happen every year. So it might be that the low crowds are made up for by Europe We've never seen a club of that size move over, so it's hard to say how it would actually play out, but I don't really buy the narrative that Newport would be back down to a few hundred fans, I'd wager they'd be the best supported club in the Cymru Premier The only evidence we have of a team moving over in recent times is Colwyn Bay, whose attendances have more than trebled (less than 200 to 700) in the Welsh system since moving over, and that's just playing in the 2nd tier. Obviously their situation is far more comparable to Merthyr, but I do think people are overly pessimistic about the Welsh system as a whole Again not advocating for Newport moving over, just think people can be hyperbolic about how bad it would be *Edit. Also wanted to add that Colwyn Bay's attendances were less than 200 at the same level of the pyramid as Merthyr who averaged 660 last season. Since moving over Colwyn Bay have overtaken Merthyr's average attendance. There's definitely a case for Merthyr moving over imo |
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rncfc
the carls
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Post by rncfc on Jul 25, 2023 15:31:03 GMT
The history would play a big part. 400-500 might actually be optimistic. If it ever happened I don't personally think there would even be enough appetite to have a Newport County team. I'd say a more likely outcome would be Newport & Monmouthshire County based about 5 inches over the border. I've seen us get crowds of a few hundred in the fairly recent past, against teams broadly at the level of the WPL. The people of Newport just don't want it. If it did happen where would the fans go if you think they wouldn't be watching Newport in the Cymru Premier?? Back to wherever it was they were 12 years ago before we started knocking on the door of the football league. Drinking in pubs around Newport wearing Liverpool shirts would be my best guess. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 25, 2023 21:42:09 GMT
If it did happen where would the fans go if you think they wouldn't be watching Newport in the Cymru Premier?? Back to wherever it was they were 12 years ago before we started knocking on the door of the football league. Drinking in pubs around Newport wearing Liverpool shirts would be my best guess. I just don't think it's as simple as gaining interest and losing interest in the same way on that scale. Once you've built up a fanbase those people don't stop being fans |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jul 26, 2023 8:34:21 GMT
Back to wherever it was they were 12 years ago before we started knocking on the door of the football league. Drinking in pubs around Newport wearing Liverpool shirts would be my best guess. I just don't think it's as simple as gaining interest and losing interest in the same way on that scale. Once you've built up a fanbase those people don't stop being fans There's no doubt it's related to the competition you're playing in and the level you're playing at. I don't know why there's so much delusion about that. Newport have always existed as a club. Where was this fanbase before they got back into the football league? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 26, 2023 17:05:27 GMT
I just don't think it's as simple as gaining interest and losing interest in the same way on that scale. Once you've built up a fanbase those people don't stop being fans There's no doubt it's related to the competition you're playing in and the level you're playing at. I don't know why there's so much delusion about that. Newport have always existed as a club. Where was this fanbase before they got back into the football league? I'm not saying it wouldn't fluctuate, I'm saying they wouldn't go back down to 400-500 fans as touted now they've built up their fanbase. I predict they'd land at around 1000, with more like 1500 for the big games, then sell out for their European games |
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Post by robin1864 on Jul 26, 2023 17:16:45 GMT
There's no doubt it's related to the competition you're playing in and the level you're playing at. I don't know why there's so much delusion about that. Newport have always existed as a club. Where was this fanbase before they got back into the football league? I'm not saying it wouldn't fluctuate, I'm saying they wouldn't go back down to 400-500 fans as touted now they've built up their fanbase. I predict they'd land at around 1000, with more like 1500 for the big games, then sell out for their European games "It's going to turn shit, but it's not going to be totally shit" isn't the best selling point, and I can't see there being much more enthusiasm for when B36 Torshavn come to town. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 26, 2023 17:33:44 GMT
I'm not saying it wouldn't fluctuate, I'm saying they wouldn't go back down to 400-500 fans as touted now they've built up their fanbase. I predict they'd land at around 1000, with more like 1500 for the big games, then sell out for their European games "It's going to turn shit, but it's not going to be totally shit" isn't the best selling point, and I can't see there being much more enthusiasm for when B36 Torshavn come to town. Well we're not at the point where I'd advocate for it anyway. If Newport dropped down to tier 6 or 7 and the Cymru Premier attendances started improving then I'd advocate for it. It would be a good move for Merthyr now in my opinion To be honest you don't need to see it, Penybont posting up a demand for 8k tickets demonstrates that is a fact |
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rncfc
the carls
Posts: 94
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Post by rncfc on Sept 29, 2023 9:12:48 GMT
The supporters trust has now relinquished majority ownership. The new owner is Huw Jenkins. Hopefully he can give us a bit of what he gave Swansea.
Given the amount of academy graduates from his tenure at Swansea who ended up being Welsh regulars, hopefully that'll be the start of something for us.
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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 30, 2023 7:00:42 GMT
Will Newport ever achieve anything?
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Post by jimbo82 on Sept 30, 2023 8:43:51 GMT
Will Newport ever achieve anything? Is this a serious question? Going out of business and getting back to the Football League is a monumental achievement. Staying there for 10 years and getting to 2 playoff finals is also an impressive achievement for a fan owned club with their resources, not to mention the cup runs. Hopefully with some financial backing they will be able to get promotion to League 1 at some point, and who knows, if Brentford and Luton can get to the top there's no reason why Newport couldn't do that too one day. |
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Post by underwood on Sept 30, 2023 9:27:57 GMT
Will Newport ever achieve anything? Is this a serious question? Going out of business and getting back to the Football League is a monumental achievement. Staying there for 10 years and getting to 2 playoff finals is also an impressive achievement for a fan owned club with their resources, not to mention the cup runs. Hopefully with some financial backing they will be able to get promotion to League 1 at some point, and who knows, if Brentford and Luton can get to the top there's no reason why Newport couldn't do that too one day. Well said. 95% of clubs don’t ’achieve anything’ if the measure is winning trophies. By those measures, will Crystal Palace ever ‘achieve anything’, or Nottingham Forest, or Cardiff City. The true achievement is having a football club in the first place. |
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Post by iantov on Oct 1, 2023 7:31:46 GMT
Is this a serious question? Going out of business and getting back to the Football League is a monumental achievement. Staying there for 10 years and getting to 2 playoff finals is also an impressive achievement for a fan owned club with their resources, not to mention the cup runs. Hopefully with some financial backing they will be able to get promotion to League 1 at some point, and who knows, if Brentford and Luton can get to the top there's no reason why Newport couldn't do that too one day. Well said. 95% of clubs don’t ’achieve anything’ if the measure is winning trophies. By those measures, will Crystal Palace ever ‘achieve anything’, or Nottingham Forest, or Cardiff City. The true achievement is having a football club in the first place. Although I appreciate and agree with the sentiment in your post, particularly in respect of Newport's struggles and eventual success as a phoenix club, perhaps not the best examples to use! I think both Cardiff and in particular, Forest fans would be aggrieved with you pigeon holing them into the 'ever achieve anything' bracket! Cardiff City Division Three (South) Champions FA Charity Shield Winner FA Cup Winner Championship winner League Division 3 Champions Welsh Cup Winner Notts Forest Nottingham Forest have won two European Cups (now the UEFA Champions League), one UEFA Super Cup, one League title, two FA Cups, four League Cups, and one FA Charity Shield. Crystal Palace Division Three (South) Champions Full Members' Cup Winner League Division 1 Champions League Division Two Champions Just an observation, not a criticism. I genuinely hope that Newport and all other Welsh clubs can one day, be playing derbies in the Premiership. |
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Post by jimbo82 on Oct 2, 2023 9:09:22 GMT
Cardiff City Division Three (South) Champions FA Charity Shield Winner FA Cup Winner Championship winner League Division 3 Champions Welsh Cup Winner Don't forget the FAW Premier Cup Also FA Cup and League Cup finalists in the 21st century, as we're talking about "achievements" rather than wins. Good points made though that all 3 clubs have won a number of trophies each, especially Forest. I guess the op was suggesting that in their current form these clubs might not win anything for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 2, 2023 12:41:17 GMT
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Post by manulike on Jan 28, 2024 15:57:01 GMT
Good luck!
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Only local leagues there.
