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Post by raptor on Sept 29, 2010 23:55:11 GMT
I'd be more inclined to ask the 'retired ' players to return after the 2nd England game rather then now.
Do these players want to play for Wales or do they want to play against England?
More to the point, do they want to play at all?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 0:38:41 GMT
More to the point, do they want to play at all? Thats the $64,000 dollar question. And I bet you would be surprised by the answer You all think like supporters and proud Welshmen who would die for the shirt. I try to distance myself from my own opinions and put myself in the position of these moneybags footballers and try to imagine what it means to represent Wales. How do we know the likes of Bale would be watching Wales play football if they werent actually footballers? Are they like us? Would they be posting on message boards? Or just turning up for the Italy game and then just sticking to the egg chasing when we become crap. These days, in all honesty, money is king. And you get the money by playing premiership football. So imagine as a premiership footballer you get called up for wales to play in some qualifer in some country you have never heard of when we are as good as out anyway. You dont like the manager much, you have got a family you want to be with and you dont want to get injured and lose the place you have just cemented in your club side. Is it really top of your list of priorities to go and play for your country and give it 100% the same as you would for your club? Its an even more desperate situation when you are someone like Church, when you didnt even know you qualified for that country until the guy running the under 21 setup told you. How much allegiance do those players with tenuous links feel? I really have my doubts over how much our players want to play for us. They are footballers, not supporters and imo there is a huge difference between the two. |
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 30, 2010 10:05:54 GMT
Well RD, you've gone over the whole negative side to international football for our players there. You've summed it all up pretty well, and its all stuff that I have thought about. However, there is a flip side:
- We haven't qualified for so long, that when we do those players will become LEGENDS in Wales. A bit like the ROI players from 88 and 90. I think they realise this, and quite fancy never having to buy a pint in Wales again post retirement! This is especially true in this day and age with all the hype around football and major tournaments particularly.
- Playing well for Wales can help get you back in your club side...or even get you some game time when you are not playing! eg- Gareth Bale
- Playing well for Wales (especially against good opposition like Germany) can get you a move to a bigger club - eg Gunter
- A lot of these lads are good mates- especially the younger ones- there seems to be a real bond between the likes of Ramsey, Gunter, Ledley, Bale etc. I'm sure Ledley is looking forward to catching up with his old mates like Ginge, Gabbs and Earnie next week too.
- Lots of family and mates at games- especially at home- A chance to show them what you can.
I must add, I think its a bit unfair to have a go at an Anglo like Church - have you not seen the way he's celebrated his goals for the U21s?! (and I think Vokes was the player who wasn't so aware of his Welsh heritage- and did you see the way he celebrated his goal against Azerbaijan?! ) These lads look like they love playing for Wales to me.
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Post by bellamyforever on Sept 30, 2010 12:09:58 GMT
Storm, thats the most negative thing i have ever heard, and your in the crowd for the cardiff game? shit. look out.
Gareth bale loves playing for wales. You can just tell.
I love earnshaws passion for wales, even though he was born in zambia or whatever, hes always in the squads, and is mostly a bench player now, but still turns up. I got a lot of time for him... maybe, just maybe... we could let him rip against bulgaria. who knows
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 12:13:33 GMT
Well RD, you've gone over the whole negative side to international football for our players there. You've summed it all up pretty well, and its all stuff that I have thought about. However, there is a flip side: - We haven't qualified for so long, that when we do those players will become LEGENDS in Wales. A bit like the ROI players from 88 and 90. I think they realise this, and quite fancy never having to buy a pint in Wales again post retirement! This is especially true in this day and age with all the hype around football and major tournaments particularly. - Playing well for Wales can help get you back in your club side...or even get you some game time when you are not playing! eg- Gareth Bale - Playing well for Wales (especially against good opposition like Germany) can get you a move to a bigger club - eg Gunter - A lot of these lads are good mates- especially the younger ones- there seems to be a real bond between the likes of Ramsey, Gunter, Ledley, Bale etc. I'm sure Ledley is looking forward to catching up with his old mates like Ginge, Gabbs and Earnie next week too. - Lots of family and mates at games- especially at home- A chance to show them what you can. I must add, I think its a bit unfair to have a go at an Anglo like Church - have you not seen the way he's celebrated his goals for the U21s?! (and I think Vokes was the player who wasn't so aware of his Welsh heritage- and did you see the way he celebrated his goal against Azerbaijan?! ) These lads look like they love playing for Wales to me. Thats the thing FF- I always err on the side of the negative with Wales as usually cynicism tends to be the best way of correctly predicting the future of welsh football!! ;D I think you raise some good positives I had not considered such as bonds with team mates, for lower league players there is the shop window incentive (I dont think that applies to prem players though). I would take issue with the positive about getting Wales to qualify. That would be my greatest motivation, I would love to score the winning goal that got us to a finals as its a dream of mine to see us play at one. But for the players they cannot do it on their own and so if you know that your team mates are of limited ability it may not instil you with the belief that you can ultimately buck the trend and qualify. Football is a team sport and so one individuals talent can be lessened by 5 average individuals. We can have all the ramsey wonder goals we like, but when the likes of Collins switches off and lets our opponents score sloppy goals then we will always struggle. I was just using Church as thats the most extreme example. Ive no doubt hes committed as he turns up a lot, but if you dont know your own ancestry how much can it really mean to you to play for your own country? International football is not how it used to be. I think the money that is in the modern era has made players lazy and made them prioritise their loyalty. Did players used to retire from internationals to prolong their club career in the days before the prem? |
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Post by saints19 on Sept 30, 2010 13:48:13 GMT
I don't think players are necessarily retiring from internationals early on their own account. I'd put that down to pressure from club managers, who in turn are under pressure from the media and their chairmen in the current climate of sacking managers, and the ridiculously congested fixture lists (especially for clubs in the Champions' League).
There's no reason why the high salaries today would of themselves make players any more likely to not turn up for their country. If anything, it should mean that money is no issue for them, thus making thm more likely to turn up for their countries.
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