Wrexham

[welshrover]

Aug 10, 2024 18:30:53 GMT manulike said:

Aug 10, 2024 18:02:04 GMT kracken88 said:

I see Wrexham are 2-1 at at home to Wycombe after seventy minutes,tough start to league one as well, Wycombe will be up there I'd imagine

Ended 3-2 ;-)

I see our Samuel Vokes still know show to knock them in.

A quite incredible fact, Sam Vokes has the same amount of caps, 64, as Ryan Giggs!

For the life of me I just can't remember that many games with Vokes in the team.

[robwrecsam]

Aug 10, 2024 21:35:22 GMT dai said:

Disappointed to see that Jordan Davies has gone on loan back to league 2, I thought he was the hot home grown prospect?

Apart from Mullin, there isn't a single Welsh player in their matchday squads now.

I find that quite strange, especially when Reynolds and McElhenney have been quite passionate about the language and Welsh identity of the club. I thought there'd be a bit more interest in getting Welsh players in the squad.

He had a bad run of injuries and personal issues the past 2 seasons which resulted in only bit part role. Shame to say but we have better in his role now.
Would be great to have more welsh players in the squad (currently only a few) but owners don’t have input on signings, probably for the best. I imagine they are focusing on youth players for the academy now we have been approved the appropriate licensing. Fingers crossed we’ll see some coming through the system

[marsvolta]

Aug 10, 2024 22:38:26 GMT welshrover said:

Aug 10, 2024 18:30:53 GMT manulike said:

Ended 3-2 ;-)

I see our Samuel Vokes still know show to knock them in.

A quite incredible fact, Sam Vokes has the same amount of caps, 64, as Ryan Giggs!

For the life of me I just can't remember that many games with Vokes in the team.

Yeah, I think the same when I see players like Simon Church and Andy King have about 50 caps. I presume the figures would look a lot different if we were looking at starts.

[garynysmon]

Aug 10, 2024 21:35:22 GMT dai said:

Apart from Mullin, there isn't a single Welsh player in their matchday squads now.

I find that quite strange, especially when Reynolds and McElhenney have been quite passionate about the language and Welsh identity of the club. I though there'd be a bit more interest in getting Welsh players in the squad.

Its funny isn't it? Some League of Wales clubs along the north Wales coast used to get pelters for being packed full of Scousers in days gone by, but in the pro-game fans don't seem to care where the players are from as long as they're doing well.

[kracken88]

I would imagine it takes years for young people to come through and acedemy so hopefully it will improve,I'm just presuming there is some type of youth system in place, maybe there isn't,and that would be a worry

[jimexotic]

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

[erasedcitizen]

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

Does come across rather bitter.

We aren't going to sign token Welsh players. They have to improve us.

Barely anyone calling for us to sign more Welsh players is mentioning names.

[jimexotic]

If you run a football club you get the best players you can within your budget, regardless of what nationality they are. I'm sure in time Wrexham will try and produce more talented youngsters and hopefully they'll be Welsh but you can't speed up time, the Americans have been here for nearly four years now, it takes time to lay the foundations for youth development and reap the rewards.

[morg]

To be honest, I'm more surprised that they haven't brought in an American as yet. Would be a good fit for the brand etc.

[superunknown]

Aug 11, 2024 16:28:36 GMT morg said:

To be honest, I'm more surprised that they haven't brought in an American as yet. Would be a good fit for the brand etc.

Brought in a Canadian Charlie Trafford a couple of years ago. Infamously never got a game though

[iot]

Aug 11, 2024 15:02:36 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

Does come across rather bitter.

We aren't going to sign token Welsh players. They have to improve us.

Barely anyone calling for us to sign more Welsh players is mentioning names.

Wasn’t going to comment further, but the accusation of bitterness is way off. I follow Wrexham closely like I do all the Welsh sides, and probably only watched Cardiff and Leeds more often last season. But it’s a real shame to see they don’t have any Welsh representation. No one’s saying they should get some token Welshmen or recruit on the basis of nationality only - they’re just unhelpful strawmen you’ve constructed. But most of our talent in Wales is Championship / higher league 1, so aren’t out of reach for Wrexham. You mentioned the lack of names - there was a whole thread on that a few weeks ago where I suggested six or seven including the likes of Jo Low, Ward, Beck, Savage, Koumas and several others.

[iot]

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

Most English clubs have mostly English representation. There’s very poor logic to your argument because although their pool is a dozens’ times bigger, the amount of clubs they have is also dozens of times more. We should expect better from our Welsh clubs than having next to no Welsh representation, it’s always a shame to see Welsh fans excusing that

[erasedcitizen]

Aug 11, 2024 20:16:11 GMT iot said:

Aug 11, 2024 15:02:36 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Does come across rather bitter.

We aren't going to sign token Welsh players. They have to improve us.

Barely anyone calling for us to sign more Welsh players is mentioning names.

Wasn’t going to comment further, but the accusation of bitterness is way off. I follow Wrexham closely like I do all the Welsh sides, and probably only watched Cardiff and Leeds more often last season. But it’s a real shame to see they don’t have any Welsh representation. No one’s saying they should get some token Welshmen or recruit on the basis of nationality only - they’re just unhelpful strawmen you’ve constructed. But most of our talent in Wales is Championship / higher league 1, so aren’t out of reach for Wrexham. You mentioned the lack of names - there was a whole thread on that a few weeks ago where I suggested six or seven including the likes of Jo Low, Ward, Beck, Savage, Koumas and several others.

Low is probably the only player we've named there I could see us realistically going for. Koumas is out of reach and has gone to Stoke, Ward would be too expensive and the others are players who I'm not convinced are of the standard required at the moment.

So, with that logic, that's one player we could realistically go for named so far which highlights how small the pool is.

By some accounts we've gone for some Welsh talent too, the signings just haven't materialised. I.E. Bradshaw & Morrell.

[jimexotic]

Aug 11, 2024 20:21:21 GMT iot said:

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

Most English clubs have mostly English representation. There’s very poor logic to your argument because although their pool is a dozens’ times bigger, the amount of clubs they have is also dozens of times more. We should expect better from our Welsh clubs than having next to no Welsh representation, it’s always a shame to see Welsh fans excusing that

Let's boil it down, who are these Welsh players that Wrexham should be signing?

[dai]

Aug 11, 2024 15:02:36 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

Does come across rather bitter.

We aren't going to sign token Welsh players. They have to improve us.

Barely anyone calling for us to sign more Welsh players is mentioning names.

No-ones bitter here. I'm a Welsh football fan in general, and I want all the Welsh clubs to do well. I don't even support a specific club anymore.

I just find it disappointing when Welsh clubs have almost zero Welsh representation. I would say that about Swansea and Cardiff too if I was concerned. 

There's been a decent amount of Welsh players available, and going for loans at League 1 level. It's just been frustrating when you look at the Irish representation in the squad - I mean, what's that about?

[iot]

Aug 11, 2024 20:36:47 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Aug 11, 2024 20:16:11 GMT iot said:

Wasn’t going to comment further, but the accusation of bitterness is way off. I follow Wrexham closely like I do all the Welsh sides, and probably only watched Cardiff and Leeds more often last season. But it’s a real shame to see they don’t have any Welsh representation. No one’s saying they should get some token Welshmen or recruit on the basis of nationality only - they’re just unhelpful strawmen you’ve constructed. But most of our talent in Wales is Championship / higher league 1, so aren’t out of reach for Wrexham. You mentioned the lack of names - there was a whole thread on that a few weeks ago where I suggested six or seven including the likes of Jo Low, Ward, Beck, Savage, Koumas and several others.

Low is probably the only player we've named there I could see us realistically going for. Koumas is out of reach and has gone to Stoke, Ward would be too expensive and the others are players who I'm not convinced are of the standard required at the moment.

So, with that logic, that's one player we could realistically go for named so far which highlights how small the pool is.

By some accounts we've gone for some Welsh talent too, the signings just haven't materialised. I.E. Bradshaw & Morrell.

Ward might have been too expensive, although there's a good chance Leicester would have been open to paying 80% of his wages given he's unlikely to play at all. But after signing Arthur, that was no longer needed. Low would be a great fit, but you've gone for that much older English guy now as well as a couple of younger English guys, so you've filled up all of those spots. 

I would question your knowledge of Welsh football if you're suggesting that Beck, named in the SPL team of the year and had Celtic and Rangers going in for him for £2m+, isn't of the 'standard required'. Local boy too. Savage is also a very good prospect at that level and already good enough to be playing games at that level. They're just the first few players I've thought of, but we have loads around the level that Wrexham are shopping in - Joe Taylor, Jack Vale are young forwards, Luke Harris went to Birmingham - again, these are just names that I'm thinking about on the spot. To suggest there aren't any good Welsh players at the higher League 1 / lower Championship level is clearly nonsense. 

[jimexotic]

There's FFP to think about, I don't think Wrexham are quite ready to go splashing 2m+ on a left back from Liverpool who has attracted interest from clubs that play in Europe. Even the likes of Charlie Savage and Jack Vale aren't going to come cheap at this point in time and Vale represents a bit of a gamble, you can't just sign players because they're Welsh, that's what I do on computer games but in real life it's a tad different.

[iot]

Aug 11, 2024 22:13:22 GMT jimexotic said:

There's FFP to think about, I don't think Wrexham are quite ready to go splashing 2m+ on a left back from Liverpool who has attracted interest from clubs that play in Europe. Even the likes of Charlie Savage and Jack Vale aren't going to come cheap at this point in time and Vale represents a bit of a gamble, you can't just sign players because they're Welsh, that's what I do on computer games but in real life it's a tad different.

Wrexham are well within FFP, but Beck would be a loan, Savage and Vale might be available for half a mil (both their clubs are in deep financial trouble) - Wrexham just spent spent something similar on the 27yo English midfielder Ollie Rathbone.

'you can't just sign players because they're Welsh' - bloody hell, who's suggested that? No one's suggested you sign players just because they're Welsh! They obviously need to be the right quality and profile. But it's not that simple is it. Every club will have numerous considerations before any transfer. All some are saying is that it's disappointing to see that a Welsh club appears to have no interest in signing Welsh players and having Welsh representation in the team. 

Craig Bellamy mentioned he'd been meeting up with all the Welsh clubs over the last couple of weeks, but seems like wasted effort with Wrexham at the moment. Anyone who looks at this forum closely will know that many of us call out Swansea and Cardiff regularly for exactly the same reasons. 

[erasedcitizen]

Aug 11, 2024 21:59:39 GMT iot said:

Aug 11, 2024 20:36:47 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Low is probably the only player we've named there I could see us realistically going for. Koumas is out of reach and has gone to Stoke, Ward would be too expensive and the others are players who I'm not convinced are of the standard required at the moment.

So, with that logic, that's one player we could realistically go for named so far which highlights how small the pool is.

By some accounts we've gone for some Welsh talent too, the signings just haven't materialised. I.E. Bradshaw & Morrell.

Ward might have been too expensive, although there's a good chance Leicester would have been open to paying 80% of his wages given he's unlikely to play at all. But after signing Arthur, that was no longer needed. Low would be a great fit, but you've gone for that much older English guy now as well as a couple of younger English guys, so you've filled up all of those spots. 

I would question your knowledge of Welsh football if you're suggesting that Beck, named in the SPL team of the year and had Celtic and Rangers going in for him for £2m+, isn't of the 'standard required'. Local boy too. Savage is also a very good prospect at that level and already good enough to be playing games at that level. They're just the first few players I've thought of, but we have loads around the level that Wrexham are shopping in - Joe Taylor, Jack Vale are young forwards, Luke Harris went to Birmingham - again, these are just names that I'm thinking about on the spot. To suggest there aren't any good Welsh players at the higher League 1 / lower Championship level is clearly nonsense. 

You're just naming unrealistic targets. Kindly get your head out of your arse and understand we aren't purposely dodging Welsh players. You seem to be ignoring every sensible argument as to why we aren't signing Welsh players at the moment making this conversation very difficult. Like arguing with a 5 year old who has their fingers in their ears, shouting.

[erasedcitizen]

To be clear, I'll concede on Beck as I hadn't realised he'd pushed on quite so much. Still, I assumed you were suggesting a loan deal rather than a permanent transfer as the latter was always pie in the sky.

[jimexotic]

Aug 11, 2024 23:23:22 GMT iot said:

Aug 11, 2024 22:13:22 GMT jimexotic said:

There's FFP to think about, I don't think Wrexham are quite ready to go splashing 2m+ on a left back from Liverpool who has attracted interest from clubs that play in Europe. Even the likes of Charlie Savage and Jack Vale aren't going to come cheap at this point in time and Vale represents a bit of a gamble, you can't just sign players because they're Welsh, that's what I do on computer games but in real life it's a tad different.

Wrexham are well within FFP, but Beck would be a loan, Savage and Vale might be available for half a mil (both their clubs are in deep financial trouble) - Wrexham just spent spent something similar on the 27yo English midfielder Ollie Rathbone.

'you can't just sign players because they're Welsh' - bloody hell, who's suggested that? No one's suggested you sign players just because they're Welsh! They obviously need to be the right quality and profile. But it's not that simple is it. Every club will have numerous considerations before any transfer. All some are saying is that it's disappointing to see that a Welsh club appears to have no interest in signing Welsh players and having Welsh representation in the team. 

Craig Bellamy mentioned he'd been meeting up with all the Welsh clubs over the last couple of weeks, but seems like wasted effort with Wrexham at the moment. Anyone who looks at this forum closely will know that many of us call out Swansea and Cardiff regularly for exactly the same reasons. 

I honestly don't know where to start and finish with you on this, I don't think I have the time, I'll respectfully disagree with you.

[kracken88]

Instead of asking if savage and vale are two expensive for Wrexham you should ask are they even good enough,vale seems to have been around for ages now and what has he actually done? Not alot,I hope he is saving his money and learning a trade, savage who knows.

[rushy]

If there is a lack of Welsh boys coming through the system and going on to become quality professionals then look no further than the FAW.

[garynysmon]

Aug 11, 2024 14:05:54 GMT jimexotic said:

Name an English side full of English players? 100 times a bigger pool to choose from too. Chill out, Wrexham are doing more for football in Wales now than they ever have.

See, this is the point I struggle with.

Now firstly, its totally a debatable point if Wrexham should even care what goes on beyond their bottom line and success on the field.

But I remember 2-3 years ago Wrexham receiving high praise for their travelling numbers. But it was other non-league English rather than Welsh clubs that benefitted from that wasn't it?

Ryan/Rob have have done fantastically well in raising the profile of Wrexham Football Club and Wrexham as a city. but I really struggle to see how it goes beyond that.

I've already mentioned not participating in the Welsh league cup and playing English non-league in friendlies, which would have benefitted other clubs.

Now, in 10 years time it may be a different story if a well resourced Wrexham youth academy is producing a string of national team prospects and a dozens of other young Welsh players for the Cymru Premier if they fall short of the first team.

But as things stand, despite a very good PR machine and a receptive media, I'm seeing very little benefit beyond Wrexham football club at the moment.

Again, its up for debate if you think a successful English football league club based in Wales, but consisting of mainly English/Irish players, counts as being beneficial to Welsh football or not.

[gimli]

The obvious Welsh transfer target is Joe Taylor who is available for loan, but Wrexham don't seem to have any interest in him and were instead all in on John McAtee from the same parent club before he moved elsewhere (despite Taylor having a much better scoring rate). Can't wrap my head around that one.

The Wrexham fans here seem to be taking this very personally but the same criticisms are regularly (and rightly) thrown at Swansea and especially Cardiff. People were probably more lenient towards Wrexham in the past when they were in the Conference and League Two, but now they're in League One they'll be treated like one of the big boys. They're now in a position to directly support the national team but it seems they have very little interest in doing so unfortunately.

[erasedcitizen]

Aug 12, 2024 8:33:50 GMT gimli said:

The obvious Welsh transfer target is Joe Taylor who is available for loan, but Wrexham don't seem to have any interest in him and were instead all in on John McAtee from the same parent club before he moved elsewhere (despite Taylor having a much better scoring rate). Can't wrap my head around that one.

I've explained this one in here in a previous post. Luton want Taylor to start when he goes out on loan and we can't promise that once Mullin comes back, and they aren't interested in selling him. McAtee was available for sale.

[iot]

Aug 12, 2024 6:48:35 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Aug 11, 2024 21:59:39 GMT iot said:

Ward might have been too expensive, although there's a good chance Leicester would have been open to paying 80% of his wages given he's unlikely to play at all. But after signing Arthur, that was no longer needed. Low would be a great fit, but you've gone for that much older English guy now as well as a couple of younger English guys, so you've filled up all of those spots. 

I would question your knowledge of Welsh football if you're suggesting that Beck, named in the SPL team of the year and had Celtic and Rangers going in for him for £2m+, isn't of the 'standard required'. Local boy too. Savage is also a very good prospect at that level and already good enough to be playing games at that level. They're just the first few players I've thought of, but we have loads around the level that Wrexham are shopping in - Joe Taylor, Jack Vale are young forwards, Luke Harris went to Birmingham - again, these are just names that I'm thinking about on the spot. To suggest there aren't any good Welsh players at the higher League 1 / lower Championship level is clearly nonsense. 

You're just naming unrealistic targets. Kindly get your head out of your arse and understand we aren't purposely dodging Welsh players. You seem to be ignoring every sensible argument as to why we aren't signing Welsh players at the moment making this conversation very difficult. Like arguing with a 5 year old who has their fingers in their ears, shouting.

I disagree that any of the names suggested are unrealistic (which is polar opposite to the first argument you made btw which was that they weren't good enough).

Who's said that you're 'purposely dodging Welsh players' - another strawman. Of course you're not, but you're also not actively trying to get some Welsh players in the team - it doesn't seem to be on your radar, which is a shame. 

'You seem to be ignoring every sensible argument as to why we aren't signing Welsh players at the moment making this conversation very difficult. Like arguing with a 5 year old who has their fingers in their ears, shouting.'

Nah - people expressed disappointment with a Welsh club having 0 Welsh representation - wasn't done in a confrontational way at all, just an expression of disappointment. Then you respond by saying it 'strikes of bitterness' which doesn't make any sense.

I get that it's great being a Wrexham fan at the moment, it's great to see the owners so invested and the brilliant things they've done for the town beyond football - I'm genuinely really excited by it all. But that shouldn't shield the club from any criticism - I'm criticizing them in exactly the same way I have done for other Welsh clubs in the past.

You come across as being overly defensive and, because there's so much positive aspects in general with what's going on at the club, you don't seem capable of acknowledging how shit it is for a Welsh club to have no Welsh players. This is a forum focused on the national team after all, so you shouldn't be surprised to see discussions about our clubs coming from the perspective of what's good for Welsh football.

[iot]

Aug 12, 2024 7:36:33 GMT kracken88 said:

Instead of asking if savage and vale are two expensive for Wrexham you should ask are they even good enough,vale seems to have been around for ages now and what has he actually done? Not alot,I hope he is saving his money and learning a trade, savage who knows.

They're young prospects who have showed some real quality for good clubs at a good level. They're the profile of player that could do well at League 1 in the short term and grow with Wrexham when they climb a little further and become good Championship players in the medium term, maybe even the Prem longer term. 

[kracken88]

Isn't jack vale a striker? What's he scored a handful of goals in five years? I mean come on there's hoping someone will come good and there's just being blind,but hey who knows,but we all know he'll end up league one at best like 90 % of the names on this forum,.half of you think just blindly cheerleadering average players is a badge of honour of something,they are not five fucking years old,maybe a bit of truth might be what these underachievers need

[neverever]

Sure Cardiff or Swansea have some talented Welsh youngsters on the books ( or the talented Iwan Morgan from Brentford) who are Welsh who Wrexham could get on-loan.

It did Joe Allen no harm to his career coming to Wrexham on loan