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Post by marsvolta on Feb 18, 2019 7:13:48 GMT
A lot has beeen made of the fact that Declan Rice has switched allegiance to England despite making three senior friendly appearances for Ireland.
This has resulted in several comments on here that the same could happen to us, Matondo and James being the obvious current examples.
As far as I’m aware, there is a home nations agreement in place that prevents any of the home nations selecting a player who has made a senior appearance for one of the other home nations.
The Declan Rice case has let to some believing that this rule no longer applies but obviously the Republic of Ireland are not a ‘home nation’.
Unless I’ve missed something and this rule has been removed without any major reporting of it, we cannot lose Matondo or James to England as they made their senior debuts against Albania.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 18, 2019 9:31:06 GMT
A lot has beeen made of the fact that Declan Rice has switched allegiance to England despite making three senior friendly appearances for Ireland. This has resulted in several comments on here that the same could happen to us, Matondo and James being the obvious current examples. As far as I’m aware, there is a home nations agreement in place that prevents any of the home nations selecting a player who has made a senior appearance for one of the other home nations. The Declan Rice case has let to some believing that this rule no longer applies but obviously the Republic of Ireland are not a ‘home nation’. Unless I’ve missed something and this rule has been removed without any major reporting of it, we cannot lose Matondo or James to England as they made their senior debuts against Albania. I also don't think either player wants to play for England. This whole mentality of "we have to tie them down as soon as possible" is not the attitude the FA takes on this subject. The player's choice is free, and I think the fact that we don't pressurise players, and we don't cap people for the sake of it is why so many of our young players are loyal to us. |
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Post by texan on Feb 18, 2019 10:26:00 GMT
A lot has beeen made of the fact that Declan Rice has switched allegiance to England despite making three senior friendly appearances for Ireland. This has resulted in several comments on here that the same could happen to us, Matondo and James being the obvious current examples. As far as I’m aware, there is a home nations agreement in place that prevents any of the home nations selecting a player who has made a senior appearance for one of the other home nations. The Declan Rice case has let to some believing that this rule no longer applies but obviously the Republic of Ireland are not a ‘home nation’. Unless I’ve missed something and this rule has been removed without any major reporting of it, we cannot lose Matondo or James to England as they made their senior debuts against Albania. This is the Home Nations agreement, a player can play for any of the home nations if: a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association c) One of his biological grandparents was born on the territory of the relevant Association d) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association He will be locked to that nation once he appears in a competitive full international match. As England's leagues sucks players in from all corners of the UK from a young age, under FIFA rules they could all decide to switch to England after 5 years of residency (used to be only 2 years!). Basically every single Welsh player past & present would be eligible for them, so all four home nations agreed to add the above conditions to the eligibility rules and asked FIFA to ratify them at their request, so it's pretty much set in stone(ish)! The ' not poaching another HN player if he's already turned out for them in a friendly' is very much an unwritten gentleman's agreement however (i.e. not worth the paper it isn't written on!) if indeed an agreement exists at all. Nothing's stopping anyone from breaking it at any time if they so wished, its simply that no home nation has so far crossed that line. Any senior players that have switched have seemingly done so off their own backs up to now as opposed to being approached by another FA (at least...not that we publicly know of!). The question is this...do we trust the English FA to do the honourable thing and not approach any of our dual qualified players if they took a fancy to them? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 18, 2019 12:02:29 GMT
A lot has beeen made of the fact that Declan Rice has switched allegiance to England despite making three senior friendly appearances for Ireland. This has resulted in several comments on here that the same could happen to us, Matondo and James being the obvious current examples. As far as I’m aware, there is a home nations agreement in place that prevents any of the home nations selecting a player who has made a senior appearance for one of the other home nations. The Declan Rice case has let to some believing that this rule no longer applies but obviously the Republic of Ireland are not a ‘home nation’. Unless I’ve missed something and this rule has been removed without any major reporting of it, we cannot lose Matondo or James to England as they made their senior debuts against Albania. This is the Home Nations agreement, a player can play for any of the home nations if: a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association c) One of his biological grandparents was born on the territory of the relevant Association d) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association He will be locked to that nation once he appears in a competitive full international match. As England's leagues sucks players in from all corners of the UK from a young age, under FIFA rules they could all decide to switch to England after 5 years of residency (used to be only 2 years!). Basically every single Welsh player past & present would be eligible for them, so all four home nations agreed to add the above conditions to the eligibility rules and asked FIFA to ratify them at their request, so it's pretty much set in stone(ish)! The ' not poaching another HN player if he's already turned out for them in a friendly' is very much an unwritten gentleman's agreement however (i.e. not worth the paper it isn't written on!) if indeed an agreement exists at all. Nothing's stopping anyone from breaking it at any time if they so wished, its simply that no home nation has so far crossed that line. Any senior players that have switched have seemingly done so off their own backs up to now as opposed to being approached by another FA (at least...not that we publicly know of!). The question is this...do we trust the English FA to do the honourable thing and not approach any of our dual qualified players if they took a fancy to them? This is slightly incorrect. The education rule is that they have to have had 5 years compulsory education. So you couldn't just move to England and live there for 5 years enrolled in a course and qualify that way, therefore you cannot qualify through residency easily. |
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Post by texan on Feb 18, 2019 12:40:30 GMT
This is slightly incorrect. The education rule is that they have to have had 5 years compulsory education. So you couldn't just move to England and live there for 5 years enrolled in a course and qualify that way, therefore you cannot qualify through residency easily. Correct, hence the bit in section 'd' that says 'under the age of 18'.  |
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Post by marsvolta on Feb 18, 2019 13:35:19 GMT
A lot has beeen made of the fact that Declan Rice has switched allegiance to England despite making three senior friendly appearances for Ireland. This has resulted in several comments on here that the same could happen to us, Matondo and James being the obvious current examples. As far as I’m aware, there is a home nations agreement in place that prevents any of the home nations selecting a player who has made a senior appearance for one of the other home nations. The Declan Rice case has let to some believing that this rule no longer applies but obviously the Republic of Ireland are not a ‘home nation’. Unless I’ve missed something and this rule has been removed without any major reporting of it, we cannot lose Matondo or James to England as they made their senior debuts against Albania. I also don't think either player wants to play for England. This whole mentality of "we have to tie them down as soon as possible" is not the attitude the FA takes on this subject. The player's choice is free, and I think the fact that we don't pressurise players, and we don't cap people for the sake of it is why so many of our young players are loyal to us. I realise that Matondo and James don’t want to play for England (though Declan Rice said something similar a few months ago) and I wasn’t suggesting ‘tying them down’ It was more me wondering if they are able to switch if they wanted to, Meaning that any reporting of them switching is a non-story as they wouldn’t be able to. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 18, 2019 13:55:27 GMT
I also don't think either player wants to play for England. This whole mentality of "we have to tie them down as soon as possible" is not the attitude the FA takes on this subject. The player's choice is free, and I think the fact that we don't pressurise players, and we don't cap people for the sake of it is why so many of our young players are loyal to us. I realise that Matondo and James don’t want to play for England (though Declan Rice said something similar a few months ago) and I wasn’t suggesting ‘tying them down’ It was more me wondering if they are able to switch if they wanted to, Meaning that any reporting of them switching is a non-story as they wouldn’t be able to. Yeah I understand your point. Matondo could switch if he wanted to, not sure about James though. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Feb 18, 2019 18:12:25 GMT
I realise that Matondo and James don’t want to play for England (though Declan Rice said something similar a few months ago) and I wasn’t suggesting ‘tying them down’ It was more me wondering if they are able to switch if they wanted to, Meaning that any reporting of them switching is a non-story as they wouldn’t be able to. Yeah I understand your point. Matondo could switch if he wanted to, not sure about James though. They both could, Matondo was born in Liverpool and James was born in Yorkshire |
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Post by conwy10 on Feb 18, 2019 19:43:27 GMT
Also worth remembering that the gentleman’s agreement with be valid until it hinders England’s best interests. Remember when they tried getting Manuel Almunia to play for England...
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Post by marsvolta on Feb 18, 2019 20:40:47 GMT
Also worth remembering that the gentleman’s agreement with be valid until it hinders England’s best interests. Remember when they tried getting Manuel Almunia to play for England... The gentleman’s agreement didn’t apply in the case as Almunia hadn’t been capped in a friendly by one of the other home nations. Almunia and Januazj (or however it’s spelt) were never really eligible for England, it was a story that the papers ran every now and again for some reason but they were never eligible |
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Post by oscardelta on Feb 25, 2019 20:36:10 GMT
Also worth remembering that the gentleman’s agreement with be valid until it hinders England’s best interests. Remember when they tried getting Manuel Almunia to play for England... Ultimately when it benefits England it will be broken. |
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Post by pendragon on Mar 2, 2019 17:42:02 GMT
I think we can no longer rely on the Home Nations Gentleman's Agreement to be honest. I am not sure if the Agreement applies to the youth set-ups. Probably not, as both England and Wales have violated it if that's the case.
I think there was a time when the English FA took a relaxed view of this approach and were very much of the view that, if a player is good enough, then HE needs to wait on the England call-up, because they had huge numbers waiting for that senior call-up in their youth set-ups. They still do, but I don't think they are as relaxed about it as they once were.
They've seen how we operate, and more importantly, how our youth set-ups operate (not that I am complaining). They've been slow to seize the likes of Brooks. They've failed to snare Bale and Wilson, and they passed up on Ampadu because he had too many or too few touches.
I think they're starting to wise up to this now, as we have seen with their pursuit of Rice.
Although I don't necessarily agree with tying a player down for the sake of tying him down, there's nothing wrong with awarding James or Matondo a senior international debut against Slovakia or Hungary should the opportunity present itself. If anything, it might also be an indicator of how they perfprm in such an environment and how they respond to pressure on an international level. If that also ties them to us and they're in full agreement with this, then so be it.
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