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Post by georgetm1 on Aug 8, 2016 10:23:31 GMT
It's just totally puerile by some of the Cardiff fans. I totally forgot it was even still a thing until yesterday. It's shit like this that causes unnecessary problems at our international games. What does this Ayatollah thing stem from anyway?
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 10:30:07 GMT
After the camerarderie in France , very dissapointed to read of Jazz being booed. Also on Saturday night's Rob Phillips phone in on Radio Wales, the first caller, a Cardiff 'fan' said he wanted all teams in Wales to do well 'except for that lot down the M4. I thought we might have moved on. But particularly after the comeraderie in France he was welcomed with open arms.. He chose ( what was certainly interpreted as) to disrespect the club's fans who asked him to do the ayatollah on seven occasions but refused.. Peltier and another player pointed it out to him on the field and he refused... If he doesn't respect the club, indeed , if he has a chip on his shoulder about the club, as he appears to do, then he shouldn't have signed for Cardiff city. Hopefully he shows a bit more respect at the next game and this will blow over with decent performances on the pitch. Years ago he would have had it all to prove from the beginning, given his Swansea background, just ask andy legg, Jason Bowen, Alan Curtis etc... But he was welcomed, on the strength of #togetherstronger..
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Post by richierich333 on Aug 8, 2016 11:04:23 GMT
Embarrassing and childish behaviour by some Cardiff City fans, they really need to grow up. He's done himself no favours by refusing to accept an invitation by his new club's fans to show he's one of them. Bottom line here is that he has made it common knowledge in Swansea that he will never do the gesture if asked to do so by the Cardiff fans. If he feels that strongly in a negative way about Cardiff City he shouldn't have signed for them. I agree. He could have just done it really quickly and all of this nonsense would not have been blown out of all proportion. An act of defiance for his new club and if he feels that strongly against it being from Swansea, then I agree maybe he should have gone elsewhere.
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Post by richierich333 on Aug 8, 2016 11:07:40 GMT
But he's is not one of you is he? He is not a born and bred Bluebird. He is a player that is born in another City, that just happens to play for Cardiff City. He won't be the first person that isn't totally in love with a club and has gone there for personal reasons.
What is it with Cardiff fans and the Ayatollah - even at Wales games? I can remember Cardiff fans signing 'do the Ayatollah' to Jermaine Easter at a friendly in Belfast and at Danny Gabbidon when he was warming up at half-time for the Andorra away game.
What has this got to do with the divisions that USED to exist at Wales games?? As for not being 'one of us', when he puts on the club jersey he IS one of us! He represents the club that the fans love. He should be respectful to that club and any traditions it may have... He doesn't have to love it, just show respect. This is not a new phenomenon, this expectation exists at every football club in the world Why on earth would you go to a new club and deliberately go out of your way to annoy the fans in the first league game? Would it have killed him to just do the ayatollah? Nope and the fans would have taken to him regardless of the Swansea thing. Now he has to win them over.
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 11:39:31 GMT
What has this got to do with the divisions that USED to exist at Wales games?? As for not being 'one of us', when he puts on the club jersey he IS one of us! He represents the club that the fans love. He should be respectful to that club and any traditions it may have... He doesn't have to love it, just show respect. This is not a new phenomenon, this expectation exists at every football club in the world Why on earth would you go to a new club and deliberately go out of your way to annoy the fans in the first league game? Would it have killed him to just do the ayatollah? Nope and the fans would have taken to him regardless of the Swansea thing. Now he has to win them over. Exactly, it's not as if he has some deep seated cultural and religious belief that prohibits him from doing the ayatollah Ffs, it's an anti-Cardiff bias that has prevented him from doing it! Cardiff fans have done nothing wrong here! The onus is on him to be accepted at his new club, the onus most certainly does not lay with the fans to overlook an anti-Cardiff sentiment!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 12:01:19 GMT
Perhaps he just thinks walking round patting yourself on the head is not a very cool look!
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Post by gwernybwch on Aug 8, 2016 12:32:03 GMT
But he's is not one of you is he? He is not a born and bred Bluebird. He is a player that is born in another City, that just happens to play for Cardiff City. He won't be the first person that isn't totally in love with a club and has gone there for personal reasons.
What is it with Cardiff fans and the Ayatollah - even at Wales games? I can remember Cardiff fans signing 'do the Ayatollah' to Jermaine Easter at a friendly in Belfast and at Danny Gabbidon when he was warming up at half-time for the Andorra away game.
What has this got to do with the divisions that USED to exist at Wales games?? As for not being 'one of us', when he puts on the club jersey he IS one of us! He represents the club that the fans love. He should be respectful to that club and any traditions it may have... He doesn't have to love it, just show respect. This is not a new phenomenon, this expectation exists at every football club in the world
But the ayatollah isn't just related to representing Cardiff City at the time when that player is playing for them. It seems that some Cardiff fans see it as much more than that - some kind of South-East Wales thing. Why else would they chant to Jermaine Easter - who has never played for Cardiff City or Aaron Ramsey whilst playing for Arsenal or the West Ham player, Danny Gabbidon?
If I was Swansea born and bred, I'd think about doing a motion which celebrated South-East Wales. Then if I was called a 'Jack B*stard' (which he was), I'd think twice, or at least do a half-hearted one (which he did).
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Post by cacenwy on Aug 8, 2016 12:43:41 GMT
It's just totally puerile by some of the Cardiff fans. I totally forgot it was even still a thing until yesterday. It's shit like this that causes unnecessary problems at our international games. What does this Ayatollah thing stem from anyway? Someone's been tweeting about this on the Barry Horns Twitter account.
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 12:52:47 GMT
Perhaps he just thinks walking round patting yourself on the head is not a very cool look! Perhaps he hates Cardiff..... who gives a fuck whether it's slapping your head, going 'boing boing' in WBA, or blowing bubbles in WHU , shouldn't have signed then should he
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 12:58:09 GMT
What has this got to do with the divisions that USED to exist at Wales games?? As for not being 'one of us', when he puts on the club jersey he IS one of us! He represents the club that the fans love. He should be respectful to that club and any traditions it may have... He doesn't have to love it, just show respect. This is not a new phenomenon, this expectation exists at every football club in the world
But the ayatollah isn't just related to representing Cardiff City at the time when that player is playing for them. It seems that some Cardiff fans see it as much more than that - some kind of South-East Wales thing. Why else would they chant to Jermaine Easter - who has never played for Cardiff City or Aaron Ramsey whilst playing for Arsenal or the West Ham player, Danny Gabbidon?
If I was Swansea born and bred, I'd think about doing a motion which celebrated South-East Wales. Then if I was called a 'Jack B*stard' (which he was), I'd think twice, or at least do a half-hearted one (which he did).
Thought this thread was about jazz Richards not about former players/players from Cardiff ? So back to the point in question , if he's Swansea born and bred and hates Cardiff, wtf is he signing for Cardiff for? And, given that he has signed, why is he showing disrespect for the club/fans?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 13:36:33 GMT
Perhaps he just thinks walking round patting yourself on the head is not a very cool look! Perhaps he hates Cardiff..... who gives a fuck whether it's slapping your head, going 'boing boing' in WBA, or blowing bubbles in WHU , shouldn't have signed then should he Think perhaps you are taking this a bit too seriously
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 13:40:28 GMT
It's just totally puerile by some of the Cardiff fans. I totally forgot it was even still a thing until yesterday. It's shit like this that causes unnecessary problems at our international games. What does this Ayatollah thing stem from anyway? Georgetm, if you read a book called Come on Cymru (can't remember the author) there is a chapter all about when and where it started, from memory a group of Cardiff fans were watching a band perform on an away trip and this band started doing this and the Cardiff fans copied it, so it isn't even a Cardiff thing, so can't see the degree of upset really.
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Post by gwernybwch on Aug 8, 2016 13:46:55 GMT
But the ayatollah isn't just related to representing Cardiff City at the time when that player is playing for them. It seems that some Cardiff fans see it as much more than that - some kind of South-East Wales thing. Why else would they chant to Jermaine Easter - who has never played for Cardiff City or Aaron Ramsey whilst playing for Arsenal or the West Ham player, Danny Gabbidon?
If I was Swansea born and bred, I'd think about doing a motion which celebrated South-East Wales. Then if I was called a 'Jack B*stard' (which he was), I'd think twice, or at least do a half-hearted one (which he did).
Thought this thread was about jazz Richards not about former players/players from Cardiff ? So back to the point in question , if he's Swansea born and bred and hates Cardiff, wtf is he signing for Cardiff for? And, given that he has signed, why is he showing disrespect for the club/fans?
Because maybe that was his motive for only doing a half-hearted ayatollah. You said that he choose to disrespect the CLUB that he is representing when he is playing for but - from the examples I've given - some Cardiff supporters don't see the ayatollah as showing respect to the CLUB when they are playing. They see if as something much wider than that, something as celebrating South-East Wales. Therefore why should he do something which celebrates an area which he isn't from?
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Post by alarch on Aug 8, 2016 14:00:57 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue, Richards has little choice but to go along with these expectations if he wants an easy ride from the Cardiff fans (and it may be too late already). However, I doubt very much that his failure to do the Ayatollah is a sign of hatred of Cardiff City (now that is a paranoid belief) - but given his roots in Swansea, he may be reluctant to perform a ritual that his mates may deem a sign of betrayal. Not a clever set of priorities on Richards' part but understandable.
Is there any other club that has this sort of public ritual for demonstrating your loyalty? I can't think of one. By demanding this sort of needless show of allegiance it could well backfire on Cardiff long-term. It's not exactly making it easy for ex-Jacks to make the switch is it? In fact, if this continues to play out badly, Richards might find himself having to find a new club sooner rather than later. Which wouldn't be a great outcome for anyone really.
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 14:25:45 GMT
Thought this thread was about jazz Richards not about former players/players from Cardiff ? So back to the point in question , if he's Swansea born and bred and hates Cardiff, wtf is he signing for Cardiff for? And, given that he has signed, why is he showing disrespect for the club/fans?
Because maybe that was his motive for only doing a half-hearted ayatollah. You said that he choose to disrespect the CLUB that he is representing when he is playing for but - from the examples I've given - some Cardiff supporters don't see the ayatollah as showing respect to the CLUB when they are playing. They see if as something much wider than that, something as celebrating South-East Wales. Therefore why should he do something which celebrates an area which he isn't from?
It doesn't celebrate an area.... Where do you get that from? It's clearly a Cardiff city thing, may be a bit outdated now mind, only started as a bit of a laugh in 1989/90... Anyway, just trying to put over why most Cardiff fans ( not some) were a bit pissed off with what happened in Birmingham Saturday ..
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Post by bracklablue72 on Aug 8, 2016 14:29:48 GMT
It's just totally puerile by some of the Cardiff fans. I totally forgot it was even still a thing until yesterday. It's shit like this that causes unnecessary problems at our international games. What does this Ayatollah thing stem from anyway? Georgetm, if you read a book called Come on Cymru (can't remember the author) there is a chapter all about when and where it started, from memory a group of Cardiff fans were watching a band perform on an away trip and this band started doing this and the Cardiff fans copied it, so it isn't even a Cardiff thing, so can't see the degree of upset really. Think the band was U Thant (may be wrong mind), was a mimic of the grieving of ayatollah Khomeini who had died.. Whichever band it was , they are Cardiff fans, hence the connection to the club. As I said, started off as a bit of a laugh , nothing more
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Post by llan123 on Aug 8, 2016 14:32:33 GMT
For those calling Cardiff fans puerile and pathetic lets not forget Swansea fans have given Jazz a lot of abuse for joining Cardiff in the first place. Also, if he had done the ayatollah you can bet Swans fans would have been outraged. I think he should throw himself into playing for Cardiff and do what the fans want, he's happy enough to take the coin.
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Post by matty on Aug 8, 2016 15:00:29 GMT
It may be a silly action to those who don't support Cardiff, but its now part of the club. We even had a cup final song which had the lyrics - our name is Cardiff City and we do the ayatollah. To a lot of supporters this is what we do, and have always done as its 20 years plus now. There have been new players unaware of it on their debuts in the past and its been quite comical with other players trying to explain to them mid match what is required! I hope it was a misunderstanding and that he does it next week - as a Cardiff player (and a former Cardiff youth player as well) I don't see any reason to not do it?
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Post by gwernybwch on Aug 8, 2016 15:05:09 GMT
Because maybe that was his motive for only doing a half-hearted ayatollah. You said that he choose to disrespect the CLUB that he is representing when he is playing for but - from the examples I've given - some Cardiff supporters don't see the ayatollah as showing respect to the CLUB when they are playing. They see if as something much wider than that, something as celebrating South-East Wales. Therefore why should he do something which celebrates an area which he isn't from?
It doesn't celebrate an area.... Where do you get that from? It's clearly a Cardiff city thing, may be a bit outdated now mind, only started as a bit of a laugh in 1989/90... Anyway, just trying to put over why most Cardiff fans ( not some) were a bit pissed off with what happened in Birmingham Saturday .. Because Cardiff fans choose to sing it (at Wales Away games) to players who aren't playing for Cardiff at that time - i.e. Ramsey (when playing for Arsenal) Gababbion (when a West Ham player) at Andorra and Easter at Belfast (even though he has never played for Cardiff City). I can surmise from that it isn't just sung to Cardiff players when they are playing for Cardiff, but - in some peoples minds (including myself) - has wider connotations.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 15:15:52 GMT
its all a bit silly really.
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Post by matty on Aug 8, 2016 15:36:40 GMT
It should never get chanted at Wales games. It starts and ends at cardiff.
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Aug 8, 2016 16:10:10 GMT
Anyone know what primary school this fans representative Carl Curtis goes to? He's no fans representative. He represents himself and his mate Annis Abraham. Yes bro I have heard of him, the wanna be so called Hardman with a mind of a child, he runs away at the first sign of trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 19:15:10 GMT
This is a non story. He did the ayatollah twice. He was not booed. WoL and the pricks on annisabraham.bile making stuff up as usual.
Jazz had a good game. Looks at home in Cardiff's new system. Deccan John was MOM.
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Post by manulike on Aug 8, 2016 20:30:06 GMT
The words sh*t and stir associated with the WoL - shock horror! What is the world coming to?
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Post by squatter1 on Aug 8, 2016 20:48:33 GMT
Out of interest, how did the Ayatollah come about - what was it influenced by and what did it symbolise?
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Post by derynglas on Aug 8, 2016 21:51:58 GMT
I know this.Was indeed started at a gig by U Thant,a Cardiff band that sang in Welsh and lasted from about 1986-1993.All Cardiff fans,but massive Wales fans as well,some of them have hardly missed a game,home or away,since the early 90s.Bass player went on to fame and fortune with the Super Furry Animals.Im not a Cardiff fan BTW.I learnt this while following Wales.
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Post by manulike on Aug 8, 2016 22:14:38 GMT
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Post by georgeberrysheadband on Aug 9, 2016 6:01:47 GMT
Surely Cardiff fans can appreciate this might cause Jazz some issues in his personal life amongst family and friends. Is it really that big a deal that 1 player doesn't do the Ayatollah ? Just move on and hopefully you can enjoy watching some great performances from a settled player. You just won't be able to sing 'He's one of our own...' I'm North Walian so have no allegiance to either side but am just bemused by the whole thing and just hope it blows over and for the sake of Wales, Jazz starts putting in some quality performances for the Bluebirds
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Post by biwmares on Aug 9, 2016 6:35:05 GMT
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Post by richierich333 on Aug 9, 2016 7:56:58 GMT
Thought this thread was about jazz Richards not about former players/players from Cardiff ? So back to the point in question , if he's Swansea born and bred and hates Cardiff, wtf is he signing for Cardiff for? And, given that he has signed, why is he showing disrespect for the club/fans?
Because maybe that was his motive for only doing a half-hearted ayatollah. You said that he choose to disrespect the CLUB that he is representing when he is playing for but - from the examples I've given - some Cardiff supporters don't see the ayatollah as showing respect to the CLUB when they are playing. They see if as something much wider than that, something as celebrating South-East Wales. Therefore why should he do something which celebrates an area which he isn't from?
I do not understand your point here at all. How is it related to SE Wales? It is a Cardiff City ritual which does not in and of itself represent hatred towards anyone else. Leggy used to do it all the time and Jason Bowen. Surely it would have been important to get off to a good start in terms of a rapport with the fans for everyone's benefit including his own.
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