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Post by iot on May 17, 2019 11:31:54 GMT
How many senior games have the likes of Ampadu, Smith and Wilson had? And at what level? If games played is an important criterion then Jonny Williams is well ahead of half the Welsh squad. Your point about goals scored is legitimate - but only a fraction of the story. Some players contribute far more than their raw stats suggest This is because stats don't measure everything that's important. For instance. if a player delivers a delicious slide-rule pass that opens up the defence for a winger to cross into the middle of the box and a striker has a simple tap in - the striker gets most of the kudos, the winger gets the assist, but the player who made the key pass has nothing to show statistically for his efforts. Williams has that hard to quantify quality of time on the ball, that comes from excellent technique, balance and speed off the mark. These are great qualities to have in the attacking and middle thirds - and is essential if you want to build a style of team play where the total is greater than the sum of the parts. If you have some players who can play bright one-touch football and others who can't then it's hard to play a possession game. Leon Britton was absolutely essential to the way Swansea played, because of his ability to dictate proceedings - and yet had no assists nor goals in seven seasons in the Premier League. If Williams builds some sustained fitness and game-time I think his best role for Wales would be out wide in a central three. Because of the emergence of the talent we have I wouldn't expect him to be an automatic starter, but a valuable squad player at least. As far as the more advanced positions are concerned then out wide he's going to find it harder to challenge for a place, given the outstanding quality of Brooks and our pacy options in Lawrence, Wilson, James and Matondo, but he could still be useful as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1 - although Ramsey and Brooks are the strongest two candidates in those positions, and Woodburn will probably push his case down the line as well. It's great to have these options. Who knows how things will pan out for Jonny Williams - but the be all and end all is not his ability, but his fitness. As far as I'm aware he's fully recovered from some serious long-term injuries, with regards to his leg break on Wales U21 duty and the more recent bad shoulder injury - with evidence of the surgery clear on the Netflix Sunderland documentary. The injuries he's been having of late are more the short-term niggling muscle injuries that have plagued Ramsey and Bale. They're not the sort of injuries that are normally career-ending, so there's reason to be hopeful. But until he gains sustained fitness any discussions about what he has to offer club and country are academic. Welshiron, I'm glad you had the graciousness to finish your post with "Really hope his body gives him a chance and prove people like Alarch right and we see him in the premiership and major tournaments with us." Whatever our opinions about the abilities and limitations of the players at our disposal we can all agree that we need as big a pool of options as possible to maximize our chances. đź‘Źđź‘Ź. Deserving a call up imo . I'm a massive fan of his, or rather the player he was (it remains to be seen whether he's as good as before his injury problems), but he definitely doesn't deserve a call up. He got a 6 month contract with Charlton and the reviews on him are mixed, with fans seemingly equally split between those who don't think he's done enough to be offered a new contract to those who think, whilst not pulling up any trees, he's shown enough promise. With that in mind, along with the strength of our current squad, it would be silly for him to get a callup. He needs to prove his worth first.
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Post by cadno on May 17, 2019 12:14:46 GMT
👏👏. Deserving a call up imo . I'm a massive fan of his, or rather the player he was (it remains to be seen whether he's as good as before his injury problems), but he definitely doesn't deserve a call up. He got a 6 month contract with Charlton and the reviews on him are mixed, with fans seemingly equally split between those who don't think he's done enough to be offered a new contract to those who think, whilst not pulling up any trees, he's shown enough promise. With that in mind, along with the strength of our current squad, it would be silly for him to get a callup. He needs to prove his worth first. He has proved his worth already. Williams is a much better footballer than Vaulks for example. Deserves a call up especially if Ramsey / Brooks are out too.
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Post by sleepy on May 17, 2019 16:06:37 GMT
Unused sub in playoff first leg. Let's see if he features tonight.
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Post by fiveattheback on May 17, 2019 16:12:02 GMT
I'm a massive fan of his, or rather the player he was (it remains to be seen whether he's as good as before his injury problems), but he definitely doesn't deserve a call up. He got a 6 month contract with Charlton and the reviews on him are mixed, with fans seemingly equally split between those who don't think he's done enough to be offered a new contract to those who think, whilst not pulling up any trees, he's shown enough promise. With that in mind, along with the strength of our current squad, it would be silly for him to get a callup. He needs to prove his worth first. He has proved his worth already. Williams is a much better footballer than Vaulks for example. Deserves a call up especially if Ramsey / Brooks are out too. Vaulks can actually finish the 90
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Post by quetzal on May 17, 2019 17:46:08 GMT
I still think Coleman bottled it by playing King instead of Jonny Williams in the SF of Euros
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Post by manulike on May 17, 2019 20:05:57 GMT
He has proved his worth already. Williams is a much better footballer than Vaulks for example. Deserves a call up especially if Ramsey / Brooks are out too. Vaulks can actually finish the 90With all the love and admiration for Jonny, I am with you on this. William has played 41 games and for a deep laying mid-fielder is actually a decent goal threat with 7 goals and 7 assists. Not to mention his fantastic throw
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Post by manulike on May 17, 2019 20:48:52 GMT
Jonny to make me eat my words ;-) On in extra time to the rescue...
EDIT By the skin of their teeth ... Charlton get their day at Wembley. Jonny did a lot of running and had a lot of the ball, but didn't do much with it ;-(
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Post by manulike on May 26, 2019 15:32:25 GMT
Jonieste in on 70' and almost instantly crosses for a potential winner ;-)
EDIT
Congratulations, Jonathan - our latest Championship player. Was magical throughout the 24' he played. What an impact player!
Nailed on for the extended 30 squad and surely a shoe-in for the 23 ;-)
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Post by iot on May 26, 2019 18:12:35 GMT
It'll be interesting to see whether he gets another contract. Looks like he's kept himself fit far more often than you'd expect, but must not have played that well otherwise he wouldn't be on the bench.
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Post by alarch on May 26, 2019 19:01:19 GMT
I think it may be a little bit more complex than that. From what I've seen his fitness has been marginal throughout, which has impacted on his game time. It's encouraging that he hasn't had any major injuries since joining Charlton, but he's still got some way to go to prove he can sustain full match fitness for a number of games at a time. At least I would have thought he would have a good chance of getting a contract at Championship level with Charlton - so could yet feature for us in the current campaign. We could certainly do with his qualities, off the bench at least.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 5:02:29 GMT
Underrated
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Post by welshiron on May 27, 2019 7:25:45 GMT
Great 20 mins but the reaction has been way over the top. If you just read what Welsh fans are saying you would of thought he scored a hat trick at least.
Hopefully can have a season in the championship and play 30+ games as if that's the case he will play a role for us as he does have great quality.
As for June not sure whether I would have him in my 23 after a good 20 mins when both sides were knackered.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 7:57:34 GMT
Deffo should be in 23, done more than Woodburn this season for example, and his quality is obvious to see
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Post by alarch on May 27, 2019 9:06:51 GMT
In the 20 minutes he was on he got two Sunderland players booked, one with a fantastic bit of control, beating two players on the touchline before being hacked down when free to race into the box. A perfect illustration of Joniesta's technique. It won't be easy for him to get into the squad, but I'd have him for his experience, and precisely because he would be a great option off the bench against tired opposition. I can just imagine Lovren wiping him out with a last-ditch lunge.
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 27, 2019 11:01:32 GMT
It's just great to see Jonny getting consistent minutes. There's no need to rush him into the present squad as we currently have good depth, but if he continues to get minutes in the Championship with Charlton he'll definitely be included in the future, and will certainly have a role to play within the squad. In our Euro 2016 campaign he put in some fantastic performances, and as long as he is fit and available there is no reason that he can't have the same impact over the coming months.
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 11:42:19 GMT
Deffo should be in 23, done more than Woodburn this season for example, and his quality is obvious to see He may have done more than Woodburn, but has he done more to justify his place than Wilson, Lawrence, Matondo, James, Moore, Bale, Brooks and Vokes? I don't think either get into the final 23 for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 11:48:11 GMT
More than Matondo probably, yeah.
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 12:40:36 GMT
More than Matondo probably, yeah. A player regularly featuring in a Bundesliga squad? Nah.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 12:49:10 GMT
Deffo should be in 23, done more than Woodburn this season for example, and his quality is obvious to see He may have done more than Woodburn, but has he done more to justify his place than Wilson, Lawrence, Matondo, James, Moore, Bale, Brooks and Vokes? I don't think either get into the final 23 for me. With Ramsey probs out i think there's a place for him in the squad. Joe Allen is our only experienced cm really, I'm not doubting Smith and Vaulks' qualities but it would be nice to bring some experience in there, be handy to bring on in these games.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 12:49:47 GMT
Linked with a handful of clubs including the Swans!
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 13:08:34 GMT
He may have done more than Woodburn, but has he done more to justify his place than Wilson, Lawrence, Matondo, James, Moore, Bale, Brooks and Vokes? I don't think either get into the final 23 for me. With Ramsey probs out i think there's a place for him in the squad. Joe Allen is our only experienced cm really, I'm not doubting Smith and Vaulks' qualities but it would be nice to bring some experience in there, be handy to bring on in these games. It's tricky as that Ramsey role can be filled by Brooks or Wilson (or Roberts when fit). I think Johnny's fighting with the forward thinking players more for his space than the likes of Smith and Vaulks. It's just unfortunate for him that we have so much talent in these advanced positions which is keeping him out of the squad for now but hopefully he can find his form again in the Championship and earn his place again as I have some terrific memories of Joniesta in a Welsh shirt.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 13:32:06 GMT
With Ramsey probs out i think there's a place for him in the squad. Joe Allen is our only experienced cm really, I'm not doubting Smith and Vaulks' qualities but it would be nice to bring some experience in there, be handy to bring on in these games. It's tricky as that Ramsey role can be filled by Brooks or Wilson (or Roberts when fit). I think Johnny's fighting with the forward thinking players more for his space than the likes of Smith and Vaulks. It's just unfortunate for him that we have so much talent in these advanced positions which is keeping him out of the squad for now but hopefully he can find his form again in the Championship and earn his place again as I have some terrific memories of Joniesta in a Welsh shirt. Fair points and I see what you mean. He certainly is more attack minded... forgot Roberts was injured, another gap Joniesta can fill!
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Post by manulike on May 27, 2019 13:49:04 GMT
Deffo should be in 23, done more than Woodburn this season for example, and his quality is obvious to see As much as I love Woody, I do agree on that one. Also ahead of Hedges (and that hurts even more to say). Nowhere close to taking Vaulks' spot for me, though.
There could be an interesting development here ...
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Post by BA Baracus on May 27, 2019 15:23:42 GMT
Deffo should be in 23, done more than Woodburn this season for example, and his quality is obvious to see As much as I love Woody, I do agree on that one. Also ahead of Hedges (and that hurts even more to say). Nowhere close to taking Vaulks' spot for me, though.
There could be an interesting development here ...
Can't help thinking the last thing Jonny needs is yet another move.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 15:28:57 GMT
Did more in 20 minutes than harry wilson has in 70 today, wilson can pop up with moments of magic in a second tho
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Post by welshiron on May 27, 2019 16:15:18 GMT
Wilson is playing at a much higher level.
William's had 20 mins to run at tired defenders and whilst he did very well he only played 20 mins.
Look at the goals scored and created by each this season.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 16:55:22 GMT
Wilson is playing at a much higher level. William's had 20 mins to run at tired defenders and whilst he did very well he only played 20 mins. Look at the goals scored and created by each this season. One division isn't really much higher! You're right Wilson has scored a lot of goals, think Williams is better taking players on tbh, both are good players, not complaining
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 17:35:06 GMT
Wilson is playing at a much higher level. William's had 20 mins to run at tired defenders and whilst he did very well he only played 20 mins. Look at the goals scored and created by each this season. One division isn't really much higher! You're right Wilson has scored a lot of goals, think Williams is better taking players on tbh, both are good players, not complaining There's a world of difference between League One and the Championship. Wilson is the superior player, which is why he's got a ÂŁ25m price tag on his head and Jonny hasn't.
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Post by welshiron on May 27, 2019 17:41:56 GMT
One division isn't really much higher! You're right Wilson has scored a lot of goals, think Williams is better taking players on tbh, both are good players, not complaining There's a world of difference between League One and the Championship. Wilson is the superior player, which is why he's got a ÂŁ25m price tag on his head and Jonny hasn't. Thank God someone else sees it I thought I was going out of my mind.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 17:49:18 GMT
One division isn't really much higher! You're right Wilson has scored a lot of goals, think Williams is better taking players on tbh, both are good players, not complaining There's a world of difference between League One and the Championship. Wilson is the superior player, which is why he's got a ÂŁ25m price tag on his head and Jonny hasn't. Not sure about a world of difference but yes theres a gap between the top end of championship. Top end of league 1 isnt far off most champ teams. Remember Joniesta has been there and done it, he played most of the games when Palace got promoted to premier league. Can't argue with the goals! Wilson is stronger in that aspect!
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