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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 17:50:11 GMT
There's a world of difference between League One and the Championship. Wilson is the superior player, which is why he's got a £25m price tag on his head and Jonny hasn't. Thank God someone else sees it I thought I was going out of my mind. Indeed. The love-in for him appears to be almost cult-like. He was a player who had bags of potential but has had a ton of setbacks due to injury and spent the closing moments of this season on the bench for a League One side. I would love for him to get his fitness back and for him to get back to that player who could hold his own at the top level, but I don't really get why some are weighing in on the odd poor performance from players at a higher level in an attempt to justify his inclusion.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 17:51:44 GMT
Thank God someone else sees it I thought I was going out of my mind. Indeed. The love-in for him appears to be almost cult-like. He was a player who had bags of potential but has had a ton of setbacks due to injury and spent the closing moments of this season on the bench for a League One side. I would love for him to get his fitness back and for him to get back to that player who could hold his own at the top level, but I don't really get why some are weighing in on the odd poor performance from players at a higher level in an attempt to justify his inclusion. Talking like his careers over and he's 25
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 17:56:07 GMT
There's a world of difference between League One and the Championship. Wilson is the superior player, which is why he's got a £25m price tag on his head and Jonny hasn't. Not sure about a world of difference but yes theres a gap between the top end of championship. Top end of league 1 isnt far off most champ teams. Remember Joniesta has been there and done it, he played most of the games when Palace got promoted to premier league. Can't argue with the goals! Wilson is stronger in that aspect! I disagree with your first point, teams who get promoted from League One tend to struggle in the Championship more often than not. All 3 teams who got promoted last season finished 15th or lower, with one team getting relegated. On the flip side, 1 relegated team went up automatically from League One and another reached the play off final. There is the odd exception, but from what I can gather the rule of thumb is teams who are promoted tend to struggle without significant investment. As for you 2nd point, indeed, Jonny was a very good player. I'm just yet to see evidence that he's anywhere near the level he was previously. To use past glories as an excuse to promote him to the senior squad is barmy.
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 17:59:28 GMT
Indeed. The love-in for him appears to be almost cult-like. He was a player who had bags of potential but has had a ton of setbacks due to injury and spent the closing moments of this season on the bench for a League One side. I would love for him to get his fitness back and for him to get back to that player who could hold his own at the top level, but I don't really get why some are weighing in on the odd poor performance from players at a higher level in an attempt to justify his inclusion. Talking like his careers over and he's 25 Can you name me a player who's had this many setbacks and turned it round at his age? You'll still be calling for him to be called up when he's 40 and co-presenting on Sky Sports because he's looking well for his age.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 18:26:28 GMT
Not sure about a world of difference but yes theres a gap between the top end of championship. Top end of league 1 isnt far off most champ teams. Remember Joniesta has been there and done it, he played most of the games when Palace got promoted to premier league. Can't argue with the goals! Wilson is stronger in that aspect! I disagree with your first point, teams who get promoted from League One tend to struggle in the Championship more often than not. All 3 teams who got promoted last season finished 15th or lower, with one team getting relegated. On the flip side, 1 relegated team went up automatically from League One and another reached the play off final. There is the odd exception, but from what I can gather the rule of thumb is teams who are promoted tend to struggle without significant investment. As for you 2nd point, indeed, Jonny was a very good player. I'm just yet to see evidence that he's anywhere near the level he was previously. To use past glories as an excuse to promote him to the senior squad is barmy. Yep, very good points and difficult to argue with that, I stand corrected. He's been playing well for Charlton and only featured on the bench towards the end cause he had a knock and was out for a couple weeks. I might be wrong but in my opinion he would be a really valuable addition to the squad for the upcoming games.
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Post by cadno on May 27, 2019 18:35:47 GMT
Talking like his careers over and he's 25 Can you name me a player who's had this many setbacks and turned it round at his age? You'll still be calling for him to be called up when he's 40 and co-presenting on Sky Sports because he's looking well for his age. Jamie vardy different reasons, aaron ramsey... I think at 25 he's still got plenty to offer, hmm probably not till he's 40 respect your opinion though
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 27, 2019 18:56:45 GMT
Can you name me a player who's had this many setbacks and turned it round at his age? You'll still be calling for him to be called up when he's 40 and co-presenting on Sky Sports because he's looking well for his age. Jamie vardy different reasons, aaron ramsey... I think at 25 he's still got plenty to offer, hmm probably not till he's 40 respect your opinion though Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong!
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Post by alarch on May 27, 2019 19:21:34 GMT
Have a look at the highlights of the League One play-off final yesterday: www.questod.co.uk/show/efl-on-quest/video/league-1-playoff-final-86459/EHD_266447CIn particular look from 16:20 onwards - where Joniesta takes the ball on his chest, instantly kills the ball whilst turning away from his opponent, before accelerating from two Sunderland defenders, despite being in close attendance on the touchline. The only thing that prevented him from getting clear into the penalty area was a crude yellow-card-earning hack. Vintage Joniesta - nothing there to suggest he's washed up or League One standard. The Charlton fans were raving about his performance. Does he merit a starting berth right now? Clearly not. Does he merit a place ahead of the likes of Hedges or Woodburn - most definitely. He needs to prove his fitness more to get in ahead of Vaulks at the moment, but there's no question he has far more ability than Vaulks and is far better suited to our style of play. The only thing preventing Joniesta's return to the Welsh fold is fitness - nothing else.
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Post by CrackityJones on May 27, 2019 20:17:06 GMT
Have you heard the rumours linking him with a move to Swansea?
Deep breath Alarch, deeeeeep breath.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 21:14:12 GMT
We've been linked to him every summer for 5 years or so.
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Post by welshiron on May 28, 2019 7:09:28 GMT
Has played around 60 games since 2015
Scored 1 goal
Played 16 times in league one with no goals or assists this season.
None of his loan clubs have signed him permanently.
Personally I think he is a decent player and if fit would merit a place in our squad. I also think he is better suited to international football.
However, there are people on here who hype him up and then criticise the English media when they do the same.
Think his best chance would be to get a move to Holland or Somewhere else in Europe.
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Post by alarch on May 28, 2019 9:01:40 GMT
There are areas of his game that he needs to improve on for sure, especially his finishing, but quoting a couple of stats in isolation is misleading. Jonny Williams has game-changing ability, we've seen that at international level when he made his competitive debut at Hampden Park, and in the last 16 Euros game against Northern Ireland. Charlton fans said the same of his impact off the bench in the second play-off semi-final and in the final itself. He has a similar effect to Dan James, although what James does mainly through raw pace, Williams manages through dribbling ability. The ability to energise a team late in a game is invaluable, and why, if he's fully match fit, he merits a place on the bench.
Of course I'd love to see him at Swansea, but I agree it may be in his best interests to move to a country where the game is more technical and less physical.
One thing I'm confident about - if Joniesta can manage a period of sustained fitness (a big if for sure) then he'll be back in a Wales shirt.
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Post by welwyn on May 28, 2019 15:34:05 GMT
Don't think uprooting his life over to South Wales will do him much good. We all saw how much he struggled with living in Sunderland. Another move to a London(ish) based club would be good. Either at Brentford, Charlton or us.
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Post by sleepy on May 28, 2019 16:13:19 GMT
There are areas of his game that he needs to improve on for sure, especially his finishing, but quoting a couple of stats in isolation is misleading. Jonny Williams has game-changing ability, we've seen that at international level when he made his competitive debut at Hampden Park, and in the last 16 Euros game against Northern Ireland. Charlton fans said the same of his impact off the bench in the second play-off semi-final and in the final itself. He has a similar effect to Dan James, although what James does mainly through raw pace, Williams manages through dribbling ability. The ability to energise a team late in a game is invaluable, and why, if he's fully match fit, he merits a place on the bench. Of course I'd love to see him at Swansea, but I agree it may be in his best interests to move to a country where the game is more technical and less physical. One thing I'm confident about - if Joniesta can manage a period of sustained fitness (a big if for sure) then he'll be back in a Wales shirt. I had a bet with myself that either you or cadno would mention Hampden and it took longer than expected but it just paid out.
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Post by cadno on May 28, 2019 16:47:10 GMT
Bloody hell, you'd think we have a bigger pool of players than Germany or France the way our fans go on about it being time to move on from most of the squad that got us qualification for the first time in 58 years ( : we're too good for them now I see!
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Post by holmesdaleultra on May 28, 2019 21:22:14 GMT
Certainly needs a bit of luck with his career.
He should stay at Charlton if possible and get some stability and games.
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Post by 1gwaunview on May 29, 2019 9:54:32 GMT
Good to see him back in the squad.
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Post by dai on May 30, 2019 9:53:11 GMT
Well well, the little bugger's made it back - didn't think I'd see him in another Welsh squad ever again. But I guess with our injury record there will always be chances.
Great news.
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Post by alarch on May 30, 2019 10:12:50 GMT
Well well, the little bugger's made it back - didn't think I'd see him in another Welsh squad ever again. But I guess with our injury record there will always be chances. Great news. Ye of little faith...
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Post by welshiron on May 30, 2019 11:15:36 GMT
It's very worrying that we could be relying on Vaulks or Williams for these games.
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Post by manulike on May 30, 2019 23:14:05 GMT
It's very worrying that we could be relying on Vaulks or Williams for these games. How dare thee be thus blasphemous - Master Vaulks is a legend, I have you know! If we had him in the side back in Lyon we would have already had a trophy in the bag.
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Post by iantov on May 31, 2019 10:03:06 GMT
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Post by Albert on Jun 3, 2019 20:13:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 20:40:19 GMT
Bizarre if true. Already overstocked in his position.
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Post by rushlegend on Jun 3, 2019 21:38:10 GMT
Bizarre if true. Already overstocked in his position.
But an experienced present international player must be good news for Swans?
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Post by cadno on Jun 3, 2019 21:43:40 GMT
Good news, gwion edwards next
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Post by welshiron on Jun 4, 2019 9:14:51 GMT
Bizarre if true. Already overstocked in his position. Best to make signings now so they can get rid of the high earners
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Post by iot on Jun 4, 2019 10:43:20 GMT
Bizarre if true. Already overstocked in his position. Not that bizarre - he fits the 'Swansea way' down to a tee and he's available on a free. He probably can't demand a high salary given his injury record, so he might end up replacing a higher earner in the same position e.g. routledge. They may look to shift on the likes of asoro too, not to mention the fact dan james is almost certain to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 15:12:00 GMT
Bizarre if true. Already overstocked in his position. Best to make signings now so they can get rid of the high earners But we signed two players in his position last summer. Another was an u23 who signed a new contract then as well. I doubt Williams will be any cheaper than them. Williams wouldn't replace any high earners, or cover any areas where we're short (or will be short when DJ's deal finally goes through). We don't even have a manager, who Trevor Birch has said would have final say over any transfers.
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Post by alarch on Jun 4, 2019 15:30:55 GMT
Narsingh has left, with James as good as gone. Asoro may leave on loan - but at 19 is seen as a long-term prospect. It also wouldn't surprise me if Dyer left. He's got a lucrative year left on this contract, but if another club come in and offer him a longer term deal he may leave sooner rather than later. Swansea would probably be happy for him to leave on a free.
In any event Joniesta's versatility is a big factor in his favour. If he stays fit he will be a tremendous asset for whoever he signs for - hopefully Swansea.
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