|
Post by iot on Nov 8, 2018 13:33:06 GMT
No chance but as he gets older I can see him dropping deeper and dictating the play a la Pirlo. Who would miss out though ?, and would that change our system ?. I just think Allen is possibly best we have in his position and Ampadu imo is going to be world class and not droppable in next year or so (assuming his trajectory stays the same). Cant see Bale being dropped, I think Brooks is killing it now, never mind a years time when I think there a very good chance he going to be snapped up by top 6 club. I can see Wilson being in Liverpool 1st team squad next season. The youngsters proved in Ireland that they are there or there abouts ready to cope without certain players in squad. Whatever happens, its a good headache to have, I am a big fan of Rambo before anyone asks and I love seeing him in team when at his best. But, I felt last campaign he certainly wasn't at his best and certainly needs to sort out future asap, doesn't help that he getting stick off certain sections of Arsenal fans a lot Sorry, but I think you're going way overboard. Lawrence is 24 so only 3 years younger than Ramsey. He probably will never be better than a top championship / low prem type player so I can't see him every being in front of Ramsey in the pecking order. Harry Wilson is having a decent season in the championship but not pulling up any trees. To say that he will be in Liverpool's first team next season is pure fantasy. He still has a lot to do to show that he's good enough for the prem, let alone a title-challenging, massive team like Liverpool. David Brooks has had a great start, but again let's not go overboard. He's played 10 games where he's had a handful of very good performances, but it's still too early to talk up a possible transfer to one of the leading clubs. Arron Ramsey has played 235 games in the prem with 80 goals/assists. He's only 27 and although not playing well at the moment, is capable of being one of the top midfielders in the premier league. He's simply in a different ballpark to our other attacking midfielders. Brooks could reach those levels if he continues his current trajectory (but 10 games is far from enough to know for sure), but I would be extremely surprised if Wilson and particularly Lawrence get anywhere near those levels.
|
|
|
Post by joseywales37 on Nov 8, 2018 14:47:43 GMT
Who would miss out though ?, and would that change our system ?. I just think Allen is possibly best we have in his position and Ampadu imo is going to be world class and not droppable in next year or so (assuming his trajectory stays the same). Cant see Bale being dropped, I think Brooks is killing it now, never mind a years time when I think there a very good chance he going to be snapped up by top 6 club. I can see Wilson being in Liverpool 1st team squad next season. The youngsters proved in Ireland that they are there or there abouts ready to cope without certain players in squad. Whatever happens, its a good headache to have, I am a big fan of Rambo before anyone asks and I love seeing him in team when at his best. But, I felt last campaign he certainly wasn't at his best and certainly needs to sort out future asap, doesn't help that he getting stick off certain sections of Arsenal fans a lot Sorry, but I think you're going way overboard. Lawrence is 24 so only 3 years younger than Ramsey. He probably will never be better than a top championship / low prem type player so I can't see him every being in front of Ramsey in the pecking order. Harry Wilson is having a decent season in the championship but not pulling up any trees. To say that he will be in Liverpool's first team next season is pure fantasy. He still has a lot to do to show that he's good enough for the prem, let alone a title-challenging, massive team like Liverpool. David Brooks has had a great start, but again let's not go overboard. He's played 10 games where he's had a handful of very good performances, but it's still too early to talk up a possible transfer to one of the leading clubs. Arron Ramsey has played 235 games in the prem with 80 goals/assists. He's only 27 and although not playing well at the moment, is capable of being one of the top midfielders in the premier league. He's simply in a different ballpark to our other attacking midfielders. Brooks could reach those levels if he continues his current trajectory (but 10 games is far from enough to know for sure), but I would be extremely surprised if Wilson and particularly Lawrence get anywhere near those levels. The reason I am asking this question is based on the fact that MoTd pundits were talking of Brooks possibly being top 6 team material on their programme on Saturday and had a section dedicated to his performance against United and how he has been doing this regular in what seems to be a similar role to Ramsey. I meant Wilson imo will be in Liverpool squad (not necessarily starting), might just have 1 more loan, but I am convinced he will make it at Liverpool soon. Might not be pulling up trees every time at moment, but I think he is doing very good though in comparison to other loanees of his age. And lets not forget that there a very good chance Derby getting to be Prem team next season, which will obvs mean Lawrence being Prem player again, who knows. I just see it that Brooks especially if he keeps up this standard and indeed gets better, will be hard to leave out, Bale wont be left out if fit or Allen imo and Ampadu is getting in team even when not having first team football at club and he is vying for that spot with Smith at the moment, both of whom have not just potential, but massive potential. Everyone needs to bear in mind I am asking this hypothetically at moment. And Im not saying about out of squad, im talking starting line up.
|
|
|
Post by joseywales37 on Nov 8, 2018 14:50:24 GMT
Who would you drop first out of Bale or Ramsey ? Bale because he's Madrid's worst player. Aye I know lol
|
|
|
Post by joseywales37 on Nov 8, 2018 14:52:45 GMT
Who would you drop first out of Bale or Ramsey ? Why are you thinking of dropping either? I believe both will be involved whilst fit and available When they retire their time will be over, not before that Im not thinking of dropping either lol. My original question was hypothetical
|
|
|
Post by phillywelsh83 on Nov 8, 2018 15:08:24 GMT
No
|
|
|
Post by iot on Nov 8, 2018 15:33:01 GMT
Sorry, but I think you're going way overboard. Lawrence is 24 so only 3 years younger than Ramsey. He probably will never be better than a top championship / low prem type player so I can't see him every being in front of Ramsey in the pecking order. Harry Wilson is having a decent season in the championship but not pulling up any trees. To say that he will be in Liverpool's first team next season is pure fantasy. He still has a lot to do to show that he's good enough for the prem, let alone a title-challenging, massive team like Liverpool. David Brooks has had a great start, but again let's not go overboard. He's played 10 games where he's had a handful of very good performances, but it's still too early to talk up a possible transfer to one of the leading clubs. Arron Ramsey has played 235 games in the prem with 80 goals/assists. He's only 27 and although not playing well at the moment, is capable of being one of the top midfielders in the premier league. He's simply in a different ballpark to our other attacking midfielders. Brooks could reach those levels if he continues his current trajectory (but 10 games is far from enough to know for sure), but I would be extremely surprised if Wilson and particularly Lawrence get anywhere near those levels. The reason I am asking this question is based on the fact that MoTd pundits were talking of Brooks possibly being top 6 team material on their programme on Saturday and had a section dedicated to his performance against United and how he has been doing this regular in what seems to be a similar role to Ramsey. I meant Wilson imo will be in Liverpool squad (not necessarily starting), might just have 1 more loan, but I am convinced he will make it at Liverpool soon. Might not be pulling up trees every time at moment, but I think he is doing very good though in comparison to other loanees of his age. And lets not forget that there a very good chance Derby getting to be Prem team next season, which will obvs mean Lawrence being Prem player again, who knows. I just see it that Brooks especially if he keeps up this standard and indeed gets better, will be hard to leave out, Bale wont be left out if fit or Allen imo and Ampadu is getting in team even when not having first team football at club and he is vying for that spot with Smith at the moment, both of whom have not just potential, but massive potential. Everyone needs to bear in mind I am asking this hypothetically at moment. And Im not saying about out of squad, im talking starting line up. My dream lineup in a couple of years, if Tyler Roberts becomes the CF we need and the other youngsters continue on current trajectory: Hennessey Roberts Mepham Rodon Davies Ampadu Ramsey Allen Brooks Roberts Bale
|
|
|
Post by bleddccfc on Nov 8, 2018 15:43:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 8, 2018 22:26:06 GMT
No. He's our second best player, who is he dropped for? Lawrence isn't half the player Ramsey is, Wilson is doing alright in the Championship but not well enough to displace Ramsey and you can still fit in Brooks whilst keeping Ramsey
|
|
|
Post by jonathandearth on Nov 9, 2018 10:30:32 GMT
Nothing is impossible - but highly unlikely.
After Bale and Ben Davies - he's 3rd on the list for me.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 9, 2018 10:56:33 GMT
Easily second on the list, we have cover for Ben.
|
|
|
Post by ger93 on Nov 9, 2018 10:59:59 GMT
Easily second on the list, we have cover for Ben. I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of Joe Allen on the national team. Without him, we have no-one to control the midfield. Joey is #2 on the list for me - maybe even #1 due to the lack of cover.
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 10, 2018 1:12:10 GMT
Who merged this? Wanted to convince a mate tonight that this thread existed, cost me a fiver!
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Nov 11, 2018 18:22:30 GMT
To the rescue with another assist. Only on the field for ten minutes...
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 12, 2018 7:09:21 GMT
Easily second on the list, we have cover for Ben. I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of Joe Allen on the national team. Without him, we have no-one to control the midfield. Joey is #2 on the list for me - maybe even #1 due to the lack of cover. I think a lot of people over estimate his importance. I think he only started half the euro 16 qualifiers. If that had happened to Bale we wouldn't have qualified, just like the last world cup. Probably 3rd on the list for me
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 12, 2018 7:10:40 GMT
I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of Joe Allen on the national team. Without him, we have no-one to control the midfield. Joey is #2 on the list for me - maybe even #1 due to the lack of cover. I think a lot of people over estimate his importance. I think he only started half the euro 16 qualifiers. If that had happened to Bale we wouldn't have qualified, just like the last world cup. Probably 3rd on the list for me as he is a very good player for us. Not in Bsle or Ramseys league for me. (Literally he isnt)
|
|
|
Post by ger93 on Nov 12, 2018 11:30:17 GMT
I think a lot of people over estimate his importance. I think he only started half the euro 16 qualifiers. If that had happened to Bale we wouldn't have qualified, just like the last world cup. Probably 3rd on the list for me as he is a very good player for us. Not in Bsle or Ramseys league for me. (Literally he isnt) What i'm getting at is that we have zero cover in the central midfield area. When Allen has been missing or gone off (Ireland at home last year for example), we literally have no control in the game. Ampadu is probably next best to fill his void. Otherwise, it's probably Andy King which is scary
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Nov 12, 2018 17:17:20 GMT
Welshiron's obsession with Welsh player's club status strikes again!
For me Joe Allen has become the most influential player in the Welsh team. Not the most talented, but the most player whose absence is felt most keenly. Our record in the World Cup qualifiers demonstrates that. Along with Ramsey, Allen was absent from the key loss of two points at home to Georgia. But apart from that he was present for our best performance away in the draw away to Serbia - when Bale was absent. He was also absent from the somewhat fortuitous victory at home to Austria, where Bale and Ramsey played 90 minutes but we were very lucky to not go behind first half, before being rescued by Woodburn late on. Bale was also absent in the key victory over Georgia away, and then finally, we saw the impact of Allen being targeted (no coincidence) by the Irish in the decisive match against ROI.
With the emergence of Ampadu and Smith hopefully Allen's absence won't be felt so keenly in future games, but for me, as things stand Allen's absence from the team sheet is the one that affect the balance and composure of the team the most.
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 12, 2018 17:26:36 GMT
Who would miss out though ?, and would that change our system ?. I just think Allen is possibly best we have in his position and Ampadu imo is going to be world class and not droppable in next year or so (assuming his trajectory stays the same). Cant see Bale being dropped, I think Brooks is killing it now, never mind a years time when I think there a very good chance he going to be snapped up by top 6 club. I can see Wilson being in Liverpool 1st team squad next season. The youngsters proved in Ireland that they are there or there abouts ready to cope without certain players in squad. Whatever happens, its a good headache to have, I am a big fan of Rambo before anyone asks and I love seeing him in team when at his best. But, I felt last campaign he certainly wasn't at his best and certainly needs to sort out future asap, doesn't help that he getting stick off certain sections of Arsenal fans a lot Harry Wilson is having a decent season in the championship but not pulling up any trees. To say that he will be in Liverpool's first team next season is pure fantasy. He still has a lot to do to show that he's good enough for the prem, let alone a title-challenging, massive team like Liverpool. A bit of an aside, but let's get it straight, Liverpool won't be a title challenging side until that Klopp is gone, he's a fraud! I asked Sky Bet if I could put a bet on him leaving before LFC next win a trophy and they wouldn't offer me odds.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 18:38:29 GMT
Ramsey still our best and most influential midfielder- just a shame he’s forgotten that is his best position and the one in which he made his name.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 12, 2018 20:44:42 GMT
Welshiron's obsession with Welsh player's club status strikes again! For me Joe Allen has become the most influential player in the Welsh team. Not the most talented, but the most player whose absence is felt most keenly. Our record in the World Cup qualifiers demonstrates that. Along with Ramsey, Allen was absent from the key loss of two points at home to Georgia. But apart from that he was present for our best performance away in the draw away to Serbia - when Bale was absent. He was also absent from the somewhat fortuitous victory at home to Austria, where Bale and Ramsey played 90 minutes but we were very lucky to not go behind first half, before being rescued by Woodburn late on. Bale was also absent in the key victory over Georgia away, and then finally, we saw the impact of Allen being targeted (no coincidence) by the Irish in the decisive match against ROI. With the emergence of Ampadu and Smith hopefully Allen's absence won't be felt so keenly in future games, but for me, as things stand Allen's absence from the team sheet is the one that affect the balance and composure of the team the most. Yet you fail to mention he missed half the games when we qualified He is an important player but nowhere near Bale and Ramsey. Alarch also fails to realise cream rises to the top and the best players usually play for the top clubs BAle is at Real Madrid Allen is at Stoke What do you think is the reason for This?
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 12, 2018 21:03:32 GMT
Harry Wilson is having a decent season in the championship but not pulling up any trees. To say that he will be in Liverpool's first team next season is pure fantasy. He still has a lot to do to show that he's good enough for the prem, let alone a title-challenging, massive team like Liverpool. A bit of an aside, but let's get it straight, Liverpool won't be a title challenging side until that Klopp is gone, he's a fraud! I asked Sky Bet if I could put a bet on him leaving before LFC next win a trophy and they wouldn't offer me odds. They're second in the league and reached the Champions League final last season...
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 12, 2018 21:06:49 GMT
A bit of an aside, but let's get it straight, Liverpool won't be a title challenging side until that Klopp is gone, he's a fraud! I asked Sky Bet if I could put a bet on him leaving before LFC next win a trophy and they wouldn't offer me odds. They're second in the league and reached the Champions League final last season... And why did they lose the UCL final? Cause they didn't address the GK issue all season along.... Klopp didn't give Ward a go, or get Mignolet back in the side. He should've brought Kairus off if he was concussed. Yes they are second, but Man City are flying, and Liverpool have done nothing against the other top 6 sides. Liverpool lost to Red Star, Man U won in Turin!
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 12, 2018 21:12:53 GMT
Welshiron's obsession with Welsh player's club status strikes again! For me Joe Allen has become the most influential player in the Welsh team. Not the most talented, but the most player whose absence is felt most keenly. Our record in the World Cup qualifiers demonstrates that. Along with Ramsey, Allen was absent from the key loss of two points at home to Georgia. But apart from that he was present for our best performance away in the draw away to Serbia - when Bale was absent. He was also absent from the somewhat fortuitous victory at home to Austria, where Bale and Ramsey played 90 minutes but we were very lucky to not go behind first half, before being rescued by Woodburn late on. Bale was also absent in the key victory over Georgia away, and then finally, we saw the impact of Allen being targeted (no coincidence) by the Irish in the decisive match against ROI. With the emergence of Ampadu and Smith hopefully Allen's absence won't be felt so keenly in future games, but for me, as things stand Allen's absence from the team sheet is the one that affect the balance and composure of the team the most. Allen missed 4 games in the Euro qualifiers and we picked up 8 of 12 available points, which refutes the claim he is our most important player Its obvious that Bale is our most important player, he's a world class talent. Is Allen good? Yes. Is he important? Yes, but to say he's the most important player in a side which contains Wales' top goalscorer who's won 4 Champions League titles is ridiculous Welshiron is right, there's a reason one is at Stoke and the other is at Real Madrid
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Nov 12, 2018 23:47:01 GMT
Welshiron's obsession with Welsh player's club status strikes again! For me Joe Allen has become the most influential player in the Welsh team. Not the most talented, but the most player whose absence is felt most keenly. Our record in the World Cup qualifiers demonstrates that. Along with Ramsey, Allen was absent from the key loss of two points at home to Georgia. But apart from that he was present for our best performance away in the draw away to Serbia - when Bale was absent. He was also absent from the somewhat fortuitous victory at home to Austria, where Bale and Ramsey played 90 minutes but we were very lucky to not go behind first half, before being rescued by Woodburn late on. Bale was also absent in the key victory over Georgia away, and then finally, we saw the impact of Allen being targeted (no coincidence) by the Irish in the decisive match against ROI. With the emergence of Ampadu and Smith hopefully Allen's absence won't be felt so keenly in future games, but for me, as things stand Allen's absence from the team sheet is the one that affect the balance and composure of the team the most. Allen missed 4 games in the Euro qualifiers and we picked up 8 of 12 available points, which refutes the claim he is our most important player Its obvious that Bale is our most important player, he's a world class talent. Is Allen good? Yes. Is he important? Yes, but to say he's the most important player in a side which contains Wales' top goalscorer who's won 4 Champions League titles is ridiculous Welshiron is right, there's a reason one is at Stoke and the other is at Real Madrid What another starstruck Welsh fan who can't trust the judgement of their own eyes? In several of the games in the Euro qualifiers when we played without Allen we scraped results, and missed his presence in the middle of the park - especially against Bosnia at home, and against Cyprus away. The reason Allen is so important (do I really need to point this out?) is because he dictates the centre of the park and sets the tempo and control of the game. Too often without him we are rudderless, as when ROI removed him from the crucial qualifier. Of course, Bale has the capability to single-handedly bale us out with a moment of quality - the perfect example being the header out in Cyprus - when, by his own admission - he'd had a poor game. But in the World Cup qualifiers how many times did Bale turn on the magic? To have a good chance of succeeding we of course need Allen for his generalship, Ramsey for his creativity and Bale for his game-winning capability. Each make an important contribution, but of all three, Allen was the most consistent and influential in the last campaign. It's great to think that when we assess who has been our most influential player in the forthcoming campaign that it's by no means certain that it will be one of the aforementioned trio.
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Nov 13, 2018 1:56:07 GMT
Allen is our very own Luka Modric!
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 13, 2018 21:50:28 GMT
Allen missed 4 games in the Euro qualifiers and we picked up 8 of 12 available points, which refutes the claim he is our most important player Its obvious that Bale is our most important player, he's a world class talent. Is Allen good? Yes. Is he important? Yes, but to say he's the most important player in a side which contains Wales' top goalscorer who's won 4 Champions League titles is ridiculous Welshiron is right, there's a reason one is at Stoke and the other is at Real Madrid What another starstruck Welsh fan who can't trust the judgement of their own eyes? In several of the games in the Euro qualifiers when we played without Allen we scraped results, and missed his presence in the middle of the park - especially against Bosnia at home, and against Cyprus away. The reason Allen is so important (do I really need to point this out?) is because he dictates the centre of the park and sets the tempo and control of the game. Too often without him we are rudderless, as when ROI removed him from the crucial qualifier. Of course, Bale has the capability to single-handedly bale us out with a moment of quality - the perfect example being the header out in Cyprus - when, by his own admission - he'd had a poor game. But in the World Cup qualifiers how many times did Bale turn on the magic? To have a good chance of succeeding we of course need Allen for his generalship, Ramsey for his creativity and Bale for his game-winning capability. Each make an important contribution, but of all three, Allen was the most consistent and influential in the last campaign. It's great to think that when we assess who has been our most influential player in the forthcoming campaign that it's by no means certain that it will be one of the aforementioned trio. I judge by what I see myself, just because I see things differently to you doesn't mean I am wrong. You are starting to come across as patronising. My view appears to be shared by football manager's across Europe all of whom can't see the qualities you see or at least dont think they are as important as what a Bale or Ramsey offers.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 13, 2018 21:55:45 GMT
Anyway let's hope Ramsey, Bale and Allen are all fit. We are a match for most teams with all 3.
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Nov 13, 2018 22:10:43 GMT
You're spot on there Welshiron - I am being patronising. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to respond as I see fit. I find the way you put some players on a pedestal and compare others adversely to them irritating. Why not just celebrate the talent we have, rather than creating these pointless hierarchies?
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Nov 15, 2018 11:30:25 GMT
Pleeeeeeeeeeease let this happen:
|
|
|
Post by superunknown on Nov 15, 2018 11:36:16 GMT
Think it's happening, great move for him imo. No reason why he couldn't be a starter in that side.
|
|