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Post by iot on Nov 18, 2018 23:16:00 GMT
The criticism is unwarranted. Firstly, he didn't play half as badly as people are making out. Secondly, he was being played in a position everyone apart from Giggs knows he's not comfortable with. Allen would struggle if he were asked to play as a 10 or on the wing, brooks would struggle if he played as a deep-lying midfielder. Ramsey's instincts are all attacking, it's Giggs that got this one wrong, not Ramsey Ramsey (if you believe everything you read on this forum) is supposedly one of the best midfielders of this generation. With that apostle fact in mind, he should have played much better and should be more versatile when he finds himself played out of his regular position, because we now have several young players who are pushing for regular spots and showing much more enthusiasm. That's absolute bullshit - football ability and versatility are not the same thing. You have extremely versatile but average footballers e.g. John O'Shea who played across the defence and midfield for Man U, and some of the best players aren't particularly versatile e.g. Ronaldo only really plays in one position. If you'd ask Eriksen to play in a deep position and give him significant defensive responsibilities I'm sure he would have been exposed. The fact that you're making such a poor point makes me think you know that you're wrong but aren't prepared to admit it.
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Post by iot on Nov 18, 2018 23:16:46 GMT
Ramsey (if you believe everything you read on this forum) is supposedly one of the best midfielders of this generation. With that apostle fact in mind, he should have played much better and should be more versatile when he finds himself played out of his regular position, because we now have several young players who are pushing for regular spots and showing much more enthusiasm. Well said bro. Ramsey needs to be dropped for that display he put in against Denmark he is so inconsistent.
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Post by CrackityJones on Nov 18, 2018 23:20:51 GMT
Ramsey (if you believe everything you read on this forum) is supposedly one of the best midfielders of this generation. With that apostle fact in mind, he should have played much better and should be more versatile when he finds himself played out of his regular position, because we now have several young players who are pushing for regular spots and showing much more enthusiasm. Well said bro. Ramsey needs to be dropped for that display he put in against Denmark he is so inconsistent. Wow. Did you actually watch the game?
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 18, 2018 23:23:07 GMT
Ramsey (if you believe everything you read on this forum) is supposedly one of the best midfielders of this generation. With that apostle fact in mind, he should have played much better and should be more versatile when he finds himself played out of his regular position, because we now have several young players who are pushing for regular spots and showing much more enthusiasm. That's absolute bullshit - football ability and versatility are not the same thing. You have extremely versatile but average footballers e.g. John O'Shea who played across the defence and midfield for Man U, and some of the best players aren't particularly versatile e.g. Ronaldo only really plays in one position. If you'd ask Eriksen to play in a deep position and give him significant defensive responsibilities I'm sure he would have been exposed. The fact that you're making such a poor point makes me think you know that you're wrong but aren't prepared to admit it. If Ramsey is as good as you believe, then surely it's not beyond his ability to make the best of the situation? We'd kill for a John O'Shea, every team needs a player like that and calling him average puts you in the same box as people who write off Allen. Ronaldo plays wherever he pleases and does well. Eriksen is a class midfielder, I wouldn't put it beyond him to make the most of wherever he's played, obviously, you won't get the best out of him but he'd try at least. Stop making excuses for the fact Ramsey is incredibly limited and put in a half-arsed performance.
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Post by iot on Nov 18, 2018 23:34:38 GMT
That's absolute bullshit - football ability and versatility are not the same thing. You have extremely versatile but average footballers e.g. John O'Shea who played across the defence and midfield for Man U, and some of the best players aren't particularly versatile e.g. Ronaldo only really plays in one position. If you'd ask Eriksen to play in a deep position and give him significant defensive responsibilities I'm sure he would have been exposed. The fact that you're making such a poor point makes me think you know that you're wrong but aren't prepared to admit it. If Ramsey is as good as you believe, then surely it's not beyond his ability to make the best of the situation? We'd kill for a John O'Shea, every team needs a player like that and calling him average puts you in the same box as people who write off Allen. Ronaldo plays wherever he pleases and does well. Eriksen is a class midfielder, I wouldn't put it beyond him to make the most of wherever he's played, obviously, you won't get the best out of him but he'd try at least. Stop making excuses for the fact Ramsey is incredibly limited and put in a half-arsed performance. Ok, O'shea is not average, he's world class and Ronaldo definitely doesn't play in one position - he plays where he wants as you say, I frequently see him pulling off world class saves in goal for Juve. Everything you've just said is absolutely right and it's all Ramsey's fault for playing poorly when out of position. We're all guilty here for overhyping him, and the managers of Bayern, Juventus and Arsenal are all just as deluded. He should definitely be dropped for one of those Derby County guys.
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Post by CrackityJones on Nov 18, 2018 23:35:28 GMT
That's absolute bullshit - football ability and versatility are not the same thing. You have extremely versatile but average footballers e.g. John O'Shea who played across the defence and midfield for Man U, and some of the best players aren't particularly versatile e.g. Ronaldo only really plays in one position. If you'd ask Eriksen to play in a deep position and give him significant defensive responsibilities I'm sure he would have been exposed. The fact that you're making such a poor point makes me think you know that you're wrong but aren't prepared to admit it. If Ramsey is as good as you believe, then surely it's not beyond his ability to make the best of the situation? We'd kill for a John O'Shea, every team needs a player like that and calling him average puts you in the same box as people who write off Allen. Ronaldo plays wherever he pleases and does well. Eriksen is a class midfielder, I wouldn't put it beyond him to make the most of wherever he's played, obviously, you won't get the best out of him but he'd try at least. Stop making excuses for the fact Ramsey is incredibly limited and put in a half-arsed performance. You’d rather have John O’Shea than Aaron Ramsey? Bloody hell.
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Nov 18, 2018 23:40:10 GMT
Well said bro. Ramsey needs to be dropped for that display he put in against Denmark he is so inconsistent. Wow. Did you actually watch the game? Of course I did. Nobody should take the place in the side for granted. Drop them if they are under performing it might motivate them a bit more.
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 18, 2018 23:52:24 GMT
If Ramsey is as good as you believe, then surely it's not beyond his ability to make the best of the situation? We'd kill for a John O'Shea, every team needs a player like that and calling him average puts you in the same box as people who write off Allen. Ronaldo plays wherever he pleases and does well. Eriksen is a class midfielder, I wouldn't put it beyond him to make the most of wherever he's played, obviously, you won't get the best out of him but he'd try at least. Stop making excuses for the fact Ramsey is incredibly limited and put in a half-arsed performance. Ok, O'shea is not average, he's world class and Ronaldo definitely doesn't play in one position - he plays where he wants as you say, I frequently see him pulling off world class saves in goal for Juve. Everything you've just said is absolutely right and it's all Ramsey's fault for playing poorly when out of position. We're all guilty here for overhyping him, and the managers of Bayern, Juventus and Arsenal are all just as deluded. He should definitely be dropped for one of those Derby County guys. Less of that you drip. 'Average' players wouldn't earn 250+ appearances for Fergie's United team, or have a 20-year career in the PL for that matter, and Ronaldo excels on the left, right or central forward positions. Back to our Aaron - He's incredibly inconsistent, and the fact he'll be going on a free means he's going to spend most of his time on a bench if he doesn't clean his act up. I wouldn't go as far as dropping him, as the Palace lad has suggested, but someone needs to have a word with him. If Ramsey is as good as you believe, then surely it's not beyond his ability to make the best of the situation? We'd kill for a John O'Shea, every team needs a player like that and calling him average puts you in the same box as people who write off Allen. Ronaldo plays wherever he pleases and does well. Eriksen is a class midfielder, I wouldn't put it beyond him to make the most of wherever he's played, obviously, you won't get the best out of him but he'd try at least. Stop making excuses for the fact Ramsey is incredibly limited and put in a half-arsed performance. You’d rather have John O’Shea than Aaron Ramsey? Bloody hell. I'm struggling to see where in the quoted text I said I'd have O'Shea over Ramsey? Could point out how you came to that conclusion? A player that versatile would be a fantastic option for us to have though, and would certainly outperform Rambo in that position on the basis of last night's shower, but that's beside the point.
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Post by alarch on Nov 19, 2018 15:12:53 GMT
I remember reading this article all those years ago when Aaron was still at Cardiff, and Steve Claridge's observations are as relevant today as they were then: www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/06/cardiffcity.championshipAs well as extolling the virtues of Ramsey's range of passing he also notes that "He isn't blindingly quick". This is Ramsey's biggest limitation - despite his terrific engine (regularly clocking big distances in matches) he doesn't really have a fifth gear, with that loping stride of his. This is one reason why he's not great at the defensive side of things - without the accusation of him being lazy being fair either. He does a lot of the mundane but valuable work in closing down passing angles, but a Joe Allen he ain't. In attack Ramsey makes up for his lack of pace with the timing and intelligence of his runs - with so many of his goals coming from well-timed runs into the box. If there is one valid criticism of him it's that he's not as switched on defensively as he is offensively, so he struggles to compensate for his lack of pace working back. This was evident in the opening goals in both games against Denmark, where on both occasions he lost the forward run from Delaney, who then sprayed the ball right. Given that Claridge's report is over 10 years old there isn't any fresh insight in the above - so you have to wonder why Giggs ignored these shortcomings by expecting him to take on a role that plays to his weaknesses not his strengths. As Claridge noted all those years ago Ramsey's range of passing is up there with the very best - and even in the game against Denmark it was evident at times (e.g. it was Ramsey's pass that released Wilson for his run that led to Bale's free-kick attempt). Ramsey is absolutely a number 10, and he's not the only number 10 that is far less effective played elsewhere - usually for similar reasons of limited pace off the mark. For instance, Sigurdsson was wasted at Spurs and at Everton, until this season, when he was played out wide - whereas he was immense for Swansea at 10. Hopefully the penny will have finally dropped for Giggs regarding Ramsey - but I have to say it's worrying that he clearly hasn't understood what Ramsey's all about already.
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Post by manulike on Nov 19, 2018 15:57:03 GMT
I remember reading this article all those years ago when Aaron was still at Cardiff, and Steve Claridge's observations are as relevant today as they were then: www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/06/cardiffcity.championshipAs well as extolling the virtues of Ramsey's range of passing he also notes that "He isn't blindingly quick". This is Ramsey's biggest limitation - despite his terrific engine (regularly clocking big distances in matches) he doesn't really have a fifth gear, with that loping stride of his. This is one reason why he's not great at the defensive side of things - without the accusation of him being lazy being fair either. He does a lot of the mundane but valuable work in closing down passing angles, but a Joe Allen he ain't. In attack Ramsey makes up for his lack of pace with the timing and intelligence of his runs - with so many of his goals coming from well-timed runs into the box. If there is one valid criticism of him it's that he's not as switched on defensively as he is offensively, so he struggles to compensate for his lack of pace working back. This was evident in the opening goals in both games against Denmark, where on both occasions he lost the forward run from Delaney, who then sprayed the ball right. Given that Claridge's report is over 10 years old there isn't any fresh insight in the above - so you have to wonder why Giggs ignored these shortcomings by expecting him to take on a role that plays to his weaknesses not his strengths. As Claridge noted all those years ago Ramsey's range of passing is up there with the very best - and even in the game against Denmark it was evident at times (e.g. it was Ramsey's pass that released Wilson for his run that led to Bale's free-kick attempt). Ramsey is absolutely a number 10, and he's not the only number 10 that is far less effective played elsewhere - usually for similar reasons of limited pace off the mark. For instance, Sigurdsson was wasted at Spurs and at Everton, until this season, when he was played out wide - whereas he was immense for Swansea at 10. Hopefully the penny will have finally dropped for Giggs regarding Ramsey - but I have to say it's worrying that he clearly hasn't understood what Ramsey's all about already. Love that article. Can someone please tweet it to Emery :+)
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Post by iot on Nov 19, 2018 19:03:37 GMT
I remember reading this article all those years ago when Aaron was still at Cardiff, and Steve Claridge's observations are as relevant today as they were then: www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/06/cardiffcity.championshipAs well as extolling the virtues of Ramsey's range of passing he also notes that "He isn't blindingly quick". This is Ramsey's biggest limitation - despite his terrific engine (regularly clocking big distances in matches) he doesn't really have a fifth gear, with that loping stride of his. This is one reason why he's not great at the defensive side of things - without the accusation of him being lazy being fair either. He does a lot of the mundane but valuable work in closing down passing angles, but a Joe Allen he ain't. In attack Ramsey makes up for his lack of pace with the timing and intelligence of his runs - with so many of his goals coming from well-timed runs into the box. If there is one valid criticism of him it's that he's not as switched on defensively as he is offensively, so he struggles to compensate for his lack of pace working back. This was evident in the opening goals in both games against Denmark, where on both occasions he lost the forward run from Delaney, who then sprayed the ball right. Given that Claridge's report is over 10 years old there isn't any fresh insight in the above - so you have to wonder why Giggs ignored these shortcomings by expecting him to take on a role that plays to his weaknesses not his strengths. As Claridge noted all those years ago Ramsey's range of passing is up there with the very best - and even in the game against Denmark it was evident at times (e.g. it was Ramsey's pass that released Wilson for his run that led to Bale's free-kick attempt). Ramsey is absolutely a number 10, and he's not the only number 10 that is far less effective played elsewhere - usually for similar reasons of limited pace off the mark. For instance, Sigurdsson was wasted at Spurs and at Everton, until this season, when he was played out wide - whereas he was immense for Swansea at 10. Hopefully the penny will have finally dropped for Giggs regarding Ramsey - but I have to say it's worrying that he clearly hasn't understood what Ramsey's all about already. I agree with much of this, apart from the bit where you say he's an out and out 10. The best form he's ever had actually came when he was playing next to Arteta with Arsenal where he pulled off world class performances week-in, week-out. He was genuinely the best midfielder in the premier league for that half a season, up until he was injured. However, the key difference was that he wasn't asked to do as much in defence as he was against Denmark. I think his best position is in a three man midfield, but he can also be brilliant as a 10.
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Post by iot on Nov 26, 2018 23:39:41 GMT
Disagree on Ramsey Alarch. People always forget that the best form he's ever shown was as part of the double-pivot in arsenal's midfield next to arteta. He was simply sensational for that half a season period up til his injury, both defensively and offensively. For whatever reason, be it by instruction or his own choice, he seems to have neglected that defensive discipline. That's why I think we'd get the best out of him in a midfield 3 in a 433/4231 formation.
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Post by alarch on Nov 27, 2018 9:33:50 GMT
Disagree on Ramsey Alarch. People always forget that the best form he's ever shown was as part of the double-pivot in arsenal's midfield next to arteta. He was simply sensational for that half a season period up til his injury, both defensively and offensively. For whatever reason, be it by instruction or his own choice, he seems to have neglected that defensive discipline. That's why I think we'd get the best out of him in a midfield 3 in a 433/4231 formation. That's too long ago for me to remember iot! So, I'll take your word for it regarding his partnership with Arteta. As I've said, it's not that Ramsey's lazy, which is what a number of his critics have stated or implied, because he covers a lot of ground in games. It's more that his instincts are more offensive than defensive. There was an incident in the recent Denmark game which perfectly illustrated this. A high ball came through to Allen in a deep-lying position, leftish-side position, with Ramsey 10 yards directly ahead. As Allen is about to head the ball Ramsey is on the turn - further to the left and towars the Danish half, peeling away from the closest Danish player. Had Allen's clearing header been more accurate it may have put us on the front foot. As it was the ball went direct to a Danish player in a central position. With Ramsey out of the picture and Allen off centre the Danes were able to easily advance on goal, creating a goalscoring opportunity, which ultimately came to nothing. If Ramsey had been the number 10 in a 4-2-3-1 his move may have made sense. Also if he was one of a trio in a midfield trio in a 4-3-3 then it may have been fine, assuming the other two were more defensively inclined. But as one of a defensive two it was, on balance, a poor decision, even though in other matches, with a better clearing header his move away from the central area may have been profitable. The problem with Ramsey is that his reactions to danger are slow and non-instinctive, and he can't compensate for his slow response because of his lack of pace. Have a close look at both opening goals against Denmark, and you'll see how he let Delaney get away from him on both occasions. Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying I agree with your last statement iot, although I'm not entirely sure how a 4-3-3 would work - presumably with Ramsey alongside (in between?) Allen and Ampadu.
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Post by iot on Nov 27, 2018 20:25:37 GMT
Disagree on Ramsey Alarch. People always forget that the best form he's ever shown was as part of the double-pivot in arsenal's midfield next to arteta. He was simply sensational for that half a season period up til his injury, both defensively and offensively. For whatever reason, be it by instruction or his own choice, he seems to have neglected that defensive discipline. That's why I think we'd get the best out of him in a midfield 3 in a 433/4231 formation. That's too long ago for me to remember iot! So, I'll take your word for it regarding his partnership with Arteta. As I've said, it's not that Ramsey's lazy, which is what a number of his critics have stated or implied, because he covers a lot of ground in games. It's more that his instincts are more offensive than defensive. There was an incident in the recent Denmark game which perfectly illustrated this. A high ball came through to Allen in a deep-lying position, leftish-side position, with Ramsey 10 yards directly ahead. As Allen is about to head the ball Ramsey is on the turn - further to the left and towars the Danish half, peeling away from the closest Danish player. Had Allen's clearing header been more accurate it may have put us on the front foot. As it was the ball went direct to a Danish player in a central position. With Ramsey out of the picture and Allen off centre the Danes were able to easily advance on goal, creating a goalscoring opportunity, which ultimately came to nothing. If Ramsey had been the number 10 in a 4-2-3-1 his move may have made sense. Also if he was one of a trio in a midfield trio in a 4-3-3 then it may have been fine, assuming the other two were more defensively inclined. But as one of a defensive two it was, on balance, a poor decision, even though in other matches, with a better clearing header his move away from the central area may have been profitable. The problem with Ramsey is that his reactions to danger are slow and non-instinctive, and he can't compensate for his slow response because of his lack of pace. Have a close look at both opening goals against Denmark, and you'll see how he let Delaney get away from him on both occasions. Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying I agree with your last statement iot, although I'm not entirely sure how a 4-3-3 would work - presumably with Ramsey alongside (in between?) Allen and Ampadu. Ramsey and Allen side by side and Ampadu sweeping behind
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Post by alarch on Nov 27, 2018 23:02:44 GMT
Ramsey and Allen side by side and Ampadu sweeping behind I can see how that might work, but I'd prefer to see it tested out against pot 4,5 or 6 teams before trying out against pot 1 or 3 teams.
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Post by manulike on Nov 29, 2018 16:53:29 GMT
The best player in Europe, now reduced to a Europa league dead rubber tonight at 6pm.
Well, at least that means there will be nothing to disturb my travel planning on Sunday afternoon - good luck to the Spuds, I say ;-)
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Post by welshiron on Nov 29, 2018 17:17:52 GMT
Not sure how he will stick it out until the summer.
Sorry forgot a massive signing on fee and contract
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Post by manulike on Nov 29, 2018 17:51:39 GMT
Not sure how he will stick it out until the summer. Sorry forgot a massive signing on fee and contract As well as being a dad to three, love him ;-)
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Post by CrackityJones on Nov 29, 2018 18:37:41 GMT
Scores from the spot.
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Post by manulike on Nov 29, 2018 18:48:37 GMT
Well earned and well executed
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Post by zenith on Nov 30, 2018 11:14:14 GMT
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Post by manulike on Nov 30, 2018 11:22:07 GMT
Fascinating red. Thanks. To think that I was in #TeamTony last Christmas ;-(
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Post by ontheroadagain on Nov 30, 2018 12:41:21 GMT
Fascinating red. Thanks. To think that I was in #TeamTony last Christmas ;-(
You cannot be right all the time.
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 2, 2018 15:11:49 GMT
Rambo on for Arsenal
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 2, 2018 15:22:38 GMT
An assist for Aaron
Arsenal have looked far better this half, its almost like they've replaced Iwobi with an actual player
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 2, 2018 15:40:23 GMT
A second assist for Aaron, won the ball back and played in Lacazette
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Post by manulike on Dec 2, 2018 15:46:05 GMT
Am busy looking at flight connections Looking forward to seeing the 45 minute RAMBO SHOW ;-)
PS Just seen the main bits of the second half. Rambo seems to have picked up the Ampadu hand waving technique ;-)
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 2, 2018 17:46:52 GMT
Dier had a go at Ramsey in the first half, telling him to sit back down on the bench
Rambo comes on and promptly ran rings around him. Dier may honestly be one of the most over rated players in the Premier League
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Post by pendragon on Dec 2, 2018 18:21:47 GMT
Well, I'm sure Dier was as enamoured as Manulike and I was with the final scoreline! 🖒😀😆
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 2, 2018 18:48:46 GMT
How many times has Ramsey come on and scored or assisted a goal for Arsenal since it's been decided this is his last year as a Gooner? Crazy.
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