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Post by highbury06 on Jul 1, 2023 5:43:14 GMT
Nonsense, he wasn’t fit and hadn’t played at all leading up to the World Cup. He’s still better than pretty much all our other midfielders and would walk into the starting 11. Unfair on Ramsey too, I’ve seen him play well for Nice at the tail end of last season, usually when they had a back 5 and 3 in midfield. It doesn’t help when Page plays him deep or with Ampadu the only holding. Allen Ramsey Morrell/Amps would be a decent mid 3. I agree that we need to look at other players though, the wolves kid is suppose to be decent, Pompey fans think a lot of Lowery, Josh Sheehan is very good and it’s worth giving him an opportunity. If the WC was held in June Joe would have started all the 3 matches. So unlucky that he could only play like 1/3 game time of the 3 matches in total after trying 10+ years to go to the WC.
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 21, 2023 8:56:00 GMT
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 21, 2023 11:38:17 GMT
His body can't take it any more and he's not the player he was, in fact he was off it for some time before his retirement imo
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Post by iot on Sept 21, 2023 12:13:47 GMT
His body can't take it any more and he's not the player he was, in fact he was off it for some time before his retirement imo Not that clear cut imo. He had some fantastic performances in a Welsh and Swansea shirt over the last year or two. He was the best player on the pitch by a country mile in his last game for Swansea last season. There were several other performances like that. He's probably become less reliable and consistently influential, but I wouldn't say he's not up to it anymore. On his day, he's still the best holding midfielder eligible for us.
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Joe Allen
Sept 21, 2023 15:03:56 GMT
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 21, 2023 15:03:56 GMT
I love Joe Allen and what he's done in a Wales shirt but I don't think he can do the things that Ethan Ampadu can and is doing now. He was top drawer for a long time but injuries and father time have really caught up with him.
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Post by melynwy on Sept 21, 2023 20:45:57 GMT
Has that monumental cock-up in dealing with his pre World Cup injury perhaps wrecked the end of his career? At still only 33, it can't just be an age thing.
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Joe Allen
Sept 21, 2023 21:40:57 GMT
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 21, 2023 21:40:57 GMT
Fair play to Joe, he knew his body couldn’t take club and international football so he did the decent thing and retired.
Some questioned his integrity at the time (despite not having any reason to but that’s not unusual on here/social media) but it turned out that he was being genuine.
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Joe Allen
Sept 21, 2023 21:41:58 GMT
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Post by jbt95 on Sept 21, 2023 21:41:58 GMT
Has that monumental cock-up in dealing with his pre World Cup injury perhaps wrecked the end of his career? At still only 33, it can't just be an age thing. I wonder if it’s more his injury from March 2020?
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Joe Allen
Sept 23, 2023 19:28:26 GMT
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Post by iot on Sept 23, 2023 19:28:26 GMT
I love Joe Allen and what he's done in a Wales shirt but I don't think he can do the things that Ethan Ampadu can and is doing now. He was top drawer for a long time but injuries and father time have really caught up with him. I think Ampadu's been very good as a disruptive midfielder recently. Leeds fans absolutely love him. But there's always this nagging doubt in myn mind - every time I see those player stats posts on Twitter, he comes out with around 5-10 tackles / interceptions (which is great), but the number of touches and passes is always low for a midfielder - like 60 touches, 45 passes. Allen used to double those type of numbers (as would most effective distributors). I think that's why we struggle to dominate and control games, even against the likes of Latvia, and that's why I think Morrell still may have an important role to play for us.
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Joe Allen
Sept 24, 2023 15:45:49 GMT
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iot likes this
Post by zserty on Sept 24, 2023 15:45:49 GMT
I love Joe Allen and what he's done in a Wales shirt but I don't think he can do the things that Ethan Ampadu can and is doing now. He was top drawer for a long time but injuries and father time have really caught up with him. I think Ampadu's been very good as a disruptive midfielder recently. Leeds fans absolutely love him. But there's always this nagging doubt in myn mind - every time I see those player stats posts on Twitter, he comes out with around 5-10 tackles / interceptions (which is great), but the number of touches and passes is always low for a midfielder - like 60 touches, 45 passes. Allen used to double those type of numbers (as would most effective distributors). I think that's why we struggle to dominate and control games, even against the likes of Latvia, and that's why I think Morrell still may have an important role to play for us. Nothing wrong with those stats as long as he is paired with a midfielder who can carry the ball progression burden.
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Joe Allen
Sept 24, 2023 22:07:15 GMT
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 24, 2023 22:07:15 GMT
I think Ampadu's been very good as a disruptive midfielder recently. Leeds fans absolutely love him. But there's always this nagging doubt in myn mind - every time I see those player stats posts on Twitter, he comes out with around 5-10 tackles / interceptions (which is great), but the number of touches and passes is always low for a midfielder - like 60 touches, 45 passes. Allen used to double those type of numbers (as would most effective distributors). I think that's why we struggle to dominate and control games, even against the likes of Latvia, and that's why I think Morrell still may have an important role to play for us. Nothing wrong with those stats as long as he is paired with a midfielder who can carry the ball progression burden. Let's see if James' passing progresses. Let's not forget that Allen's best games were alongside cloggers like Ledley and Edwards (no disrespect to either, they did their jobs well).
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 25, 2023 18:24:13 GMT
Nothing wrong with those stats as long as he is paired with a midfielder who can carry the ball progression burden. Let's see if James' passing progresses. Let's not forget that Allen's best games were alongside cloggers like Ledley and Edwards (no disrespect to either, they did their jobs well). Neither of those players were cloggers. In fact it was Ledley's line splitting pass that set Ramsey away for the winner against Slovakia
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Post by dai on Sept 25, 2023 18:36:16 GMT
Nothing wrong with those stats as long as he is paired with a midfielder who can carry the ball progression burden. Let's see if James' passing progresses. L et's not forget that Allen's best games were alongside cloggers like Ledley and Edwards (no disrespect to either, they did their jobs well). Cloggers like Ledley and Edwards? Strange take. Both different types of players, but both of them played in PL at some stage. I always thought Ledley and Edwards were VERY good midfielders, better than most of our options bar Allen and Ampadu over the last 5 years. In fact I would even put them both in the same bracket as Ampadu.
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 25, 2023 20:37:54 GMT
Ledley was great in his prime, he was a massive part of the way Allen could play for us
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Joe Allen
Sept 25, 2023 21:34:50 GMT
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 25, 2023 21:34:50 GMT
Let's see if James' passing progresses. L et's not forget that Allen's best games were alongside cloggers like Ledley and Edwards (no disrespect to either, they did their jobs well). Cloggers like Ledley and Edwards? Strange take. Both different types of players, but both of them played in PL at some stage. I always thought Ledley and Edwards were VERY good midfielders, better than most of our options bar Allen and Ampadu over the last 5 years. In fact I would even put them both in the same bracket as Ampadu. Exactly. You need a passer alongside Ampadu. Ledley and Edwards were workmanlike midfielders, no frills, and none the worse for that.
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Joe Allen
Feb 24, 2024 20:01:55 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 24, 2024 20:01:55 GMT
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 11:40:47 GMT
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Post by jbt95 on Feb 25, 2024 11:40:47 GMT
As much as I love Joe, he has only just returned from a long injury spell out and has made his decision to retire from international football. I’m sure he has (hospitality) tickets already sorted anyway!
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Post by fiveattheback on Feb 25, 2024 12:41:06 GMT
Allen made his decision, if he wants to play again then it's up to him to indicate that and I very much doubt he does
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 13:27:26 GMT
Assuming he continues to start for Swansea between now and the playoffs, and plays at the level he showed yesterday, would you not want him in the squad, especially with Morrell absent? Personally, I want the strongest squad we can possibly have for these playoffs, because I want to maximise our chances of qualifying. If asked, chances are he would agree, if not, nothing is lost. I would hate to think that pride would get in the way of us having the strongest squad available. I would hold Page in higher esteem were he to do the best thing for Cymru.
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Post by quetzal on Feb 25, 2024 14:29:46 GMT
Kevin Ratcliffe came out of international retirement for a game against Belgium in 92/93 World Cup qualifiers for USA 94. He played a blinder!!! Wales 2 Giggs, Rush Belgium 0
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Post by jimexotic on Feb 25, 2024 15:09:33 GMT
I'd pick Sheehan over Allen at this stage.
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 15:17:14 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 15:17:14 GMT
That's a moot point. Though I think highly of Sheehan, he has very little international experience whereas Allen would fit seamlessly into midfield. In any event we need Sheehan plus another option on the bench for the double header.
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 15:23:05 GMT
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Post by CrackityJones on Feb 25, 2024 15:23:05 GMT
Allen retired, it was his choice not Page’s
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 15:48:43 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 15:48:43 GMT
Allen retired, it was his choice not Page’s So what. Why is that a reason not to ask him to come out of retirement for the playoffs at least? The only reason is a false pride. I want what's best for our chances of making the finals, that should be the only consideration.
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Post by jimexotic on Feb 25, 2024 15:51:46 GMT
Do you reckon it might just be that Joe Allen has realised that his body can't do it anymore and he's told Page that? I'm sure if Allen wanted to and felt up to it he could contact Page and make himself available for selection, not everything that doesn't or does happen within the Welsh set up is something that Page has done wrong.
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 16:19:45 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 16:19:45 GMT
Allen has missed a lot of the past two seasons to injury so his decision to retire from international football has, sadly, been vindicated. However, he's started the last two games, and had half an hour off the bench in several previous games. Should those starts continue, given his experience and paucity of alternative options, on merit he should be in the squad. This isn't about Joe Allen this is about Cymru, and making optimal decisions with regard to us making the Euros. Egos shouldn't get in the way of making the best decisions. Allen might choose not to accept an offer (although I suspect he would accept given that the two games are at home and he would probably only play a bit part). If so, nothing is lost.
If not Allen, then who should be selected alongside James, Ampadu and Sheehan?
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Post by jimexotic on Feb 25, 2024 16:30:06 GMT
Do you think egos are coming into play here or do you think that Joe Allen has just said he's retired from international football and Page has got on with his job like anyone else in the World would?
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 16:39:40 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 16:39:40 GMT
It's interesting that you're not saying what you think should happen. If not Joe, then who? Why wouldn't Page ask Joe to come out of retirement for a couple of games if he's the best option, other than ego being the reason?
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Post by jimexotic on Feb 25, 2024 18:19:25 GMT
I think Robbie Savage and Joe Ledley should do three park runs, best of three, winner gets a place in the squad, that's what I think should happen.
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Joe Allen
Feb 25, 2024 19:41:23 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on Feb 25, 2024 19:41:23 GMT
Ah, so you can't answer the question. I thought you might struggle...
As far as I'm aware the best alternative to Allen would be Matt Smith, but as well as he might be doing in the SPL he's not remotely at Allen's level.
Let's say we're 1 nil down to Poland with half an hour to go. It would make sense at that point to go to 4 at the back and bring on another attacker, say Dan James. To facilitate that I would drop Ampadu back into the back 4 alongside Rodon, take Mepham and either Davies or Roberts off, and bring on Allen to play alongside Jordan James. Sheehan would be far too big a risk at such a pivotal moment. These are the sort of permutations you are ruling out if you say Page shouldn't make the phone call to Allen.
Allen might be reluctant to make himself available as it might seem an egotistical thing to do at this late juncture. Page, acting without ego, could make that call. It's a simple choice, and the decision should be based on what's in the best national interest, not what some people think about the decision.
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