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Post by fiveattheback on May 1, 2024 11:55:47 GMT
Dunno how sincere they're being here. Surely they're not going to increase to a 45-thousand seater when that surpasses the local population? Would be cool to see, but probably not very sustainable! I'm assuming they're just using they're media-savviness to make some headlines in the buildup to the new documentary While the town (or city I suppose I should say now) might technically only have a population of 45k, the county borough is about three times that, and their catchment area also extends to Flintshire and Denbighshire (and northern Powys, though that doesn't contribute much population-wise). They probably fancy their chances of drawing support from all over the north and becoming the EFL club for all of north Wales, in which case they'd have a catchment area of over half a million. And then you can also factor in the foreign fans and daytrippers. It's not that absurd to think they could fill a 45k seater, though I think they'd need continued success to build up a sustainable fanbase big enough to fill it consistently. I think a 30k seater would be a decent compromise long term. 45k is 6,000 more than Leeds get, it would put them 8th in the current Premier League ahead of the likes of Villa, Chelsea, Everton and Wolves. They (and any club really) would need to be a European regular before thinking about that amount and that would be quite some achievement
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 13:42:10 GMT
McIlhenny did say that the long term ambition would be achieved stand by stand. That sounds like a sensible suck it and see approach. It's good to see some ambition associated with a Welsh venture even if the impetus is coming from the outside.
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Wrexham
May 1, 2024 20:48:59 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 1, 2024 20:48:59 GMT
Yeah great to see ambition, they're clearly viewing it as sky is the limit but one step at a time
I think a couple of seasons in League One will be needed before challenging for promotion, although you never know I guess. Would be interesting to see if the media impetus sticks after a few mid-table finishes in League One - I think they can make it work for the record
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 20:52:07 GMT
I think they have a good chance of going straight up.
Lee Evans being released by Portsmouth. Has no fewer than 4 promotions from League One. Has to be worth considering.
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Wrexham
May 1, 2024 20:55:33 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 20:55:33 GMT
Portsmouth haven't taken up an option on Joe Morrell, although discussions are on-going. Could be an option for Swansea or Wrexham.
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Wrexham
May 1, 2024 21:22:13 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 1, 2024 21:22:13 GMT
Portsmouth haven't taken up an option on Joe Morrell, although discussions are on-going. Could be an option for Swansea or Wrexham. We'll be in the market for a player like him as we're very likely releasing Luke Young. Pompey fans have linked him with us but might just be an educated guess from someone over there. I don't see us signing Evans, we'll want Championship level players and Evans isn't that anymore. Morrell very well could be.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 1, 2024 22:01:07 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club.
The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc.
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon
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Wrexham
May 1, 2024 22:03:24 GMT
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Post by welshrover on May 1, 2024 22:03:24 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon Levelling up fund?
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Wrexham
May 1, 2024 22:09:39 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 1, 2024 22:09:39 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon To be fair they're talking about a stand by stand development. So the chances are they won't get near the maximum capacity. But nothing wrong with a bit of ambition.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 1, 2024 22:10:52 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon To be fair they're talking about a stand by stand development. So the chances are they won't get near the maximum capacity. But nothing wrong with a bit of ambition. Absolutely yes. Aim for the stars and all that
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Post by welwyn on May 2, 2024 8:42:49 GMT
I think, on the field, Wrexham really need to be looking at reducing the average age of the squad. Think Stockport have a better chance of going straight through than Wrexham right now.
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Post by daearegwr on May 2, 2024 17:49:02 GMT
I think, on the field, Wrexham really need to be looking at reducing the average age of the squad. Think Stockport have a better chance of going straight through than Wrexham right now. I'd hope they're already planning this. I was chatting to some mates before the Stockport game and we discussed how the strategy of bringing in older players from higher levels (Steve Fletcher, James McClean, Ben Foster etc) worked for getting up to League one, but isn't sustainable longer term as the quality of those higher leagues improves. Max Cleworth has been class this season and only 21. I've still got hopes for Okonkwo to stay (22) as I think he'll continue to improve and have fewer errors in his game.
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Wrexham
May 2, 2024 18:33:05 GMT
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Post by surge on May 2, 2024 18:33:05 GMT
I've only glimpsed from afar but 37 year old Steven Fletcher (10 starts, 33 games and 8 goals) is the definition of an old player but has contributed whereas 29 going on 30 year old Jack Marriott (3 starts, 17 games, 1 goal) is, by football standards, an older player who appears not to have contributed much this season.
I wouldn't say bringing in old players is wrong in itself, but if they have a group of old players on top of a bulk of players either in or coming out of their peak (come contributing some less so) on top of a handful of players yet to hit their peak, it probably isn't sustainable and needs addressing. But from a distance I am not sure how much that is in fact the case - seems like most of their players over 30 (aside from well known names) weren't frequently played this season and several have their contracts up over this summer.
I think it's mainly their forward line which is looking old in the tooth. Young Bickerstaff looked very exciting very early on this season but went out to Accrington Stanley on loan and didn't pull up any trees.
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Post by gwernybwch on May 2, 2024 20:28:33 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT l et’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. R&R are lending the money to Wrexham FC and then charging interest on the money that they lend the club. They don't need unlimited funds, they just need to find someone else that is willing to lend Wrexham FC 3.5% above base rate.
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Wrexham
May 2, 2024 20:46:28 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 2, 2024 20:46:28 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon What fair play rules? We had the largest ifollow streamcount in the EFL and sold 50k shirts last year. Fair play is nowhere near 'catching up' with us.
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Wrexham
May 2, 2024 20:56:53 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 2, 2024 20:56:53 GMT
Wrexham's income was almost as big as Swansea's 2022/23 income. Wrexham won't need to worry about profitability and sustainability regulations when they get to the Championship. The rules in Leagues one and two are different, but with their income they're not going to have problems.
I expect Wrexham to get promoted again next season. The only thing that might hold them back is their limited brand of football. Having said that direct football didn't prevent Wycombe and Rotherham from getting promoted.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 3, 2024 6:01:38 GMT
Wrexham's income was almost as big as Swansea's 2022/23 income. Wrexham won't need to worry about profitability and sustainability regulations when they get to the Championship. The rules in Leagues one and two are different, but with their income they're not going to have problems. I expect Wrexham to get promoted again next season. The only thing that might hold them back is their limited brand of football. Having said that direct football didn't prevent Wycombe and Rotherham from getting promoted. Currently Wrexham turnover is half of Swansea. Roughly £10 million compared to £21 million so no where near each other at present. Swansea are on the brink of FFP and are needing to shed around 10 players in the close season. As a club Wrexham have “ lost” £16 million in past 2 seasons ( £5 million last season and £9 million this season) It doesn’t matter how big your turnover is,if your not making a profit eventually it will catch up with you at some point. For now enjoy the ride and see where it goes. Be great to have 3 teams playing in Championship.
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Post by fiveattheback on May 3, 2024 9:31:45 GMT
Wrexham's income was almost as big as Swansea's 2022/23 income. Wrexham won't need to worry about profitability and sustainability regulations when they get to the Championship. The rules in Leagues one and two are different, but with their income they're not going to have problems. I expect Wrexham to get promoted again next season. The only thing that might hold them back is their limited brand of football. Having said that direct football didn't prevent Wycombe and Rotherham from getting promoted. Championship's a whole different ball game financially though. If they get there I think they'll be in for a shock, just look at the size of some of those clubs even at the lower end of the league. If they manage to stabilise into a Championship club, or even a Rotherham/Peterborough style yo yo club that would be an unbelieveable success League 1 will be a different proposition too, its a step up in terms of the clubs and general level.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 3, 2024 10:12:27 GMT
I think it would be a great achievement to become a stable Championship club. It’s an absolute brutal league with some huge clubs.
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Post by aberbeeg on May 3, 2024 10:26:13 GMT
Bloody hell steady on drive…. 45k? 60k? 65K? Wrexham haven’t had an average attendance over 15k. I love the enthusiasm that the RR juggernaut has brought BUT let’s not forget he doesn’t have unlimited billions and even if he did then the fair play rules would soon catch up with the club. The higher the club go the more wages are needed plus bigger transfer fees/ agent fees etc. money will be needed for huge stadium improvements and infrastructure etc. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. So far so good but slowly slowly catch the monkey I reckon What fair play rules? We had the largest ifollow streamcount in the EFL and sold 50k shirts last year. Fair play is nowhere near 'catching up' with us. Every club has to adhere to the FFP obviously. Not sure what the figure is for lower league sides. naturally the figures will be lower than Championship sides but for example Championship sides are only allowed to lose £39 million over 3 seasons. Currently Wrexham show £16 million losses for 2 seasons. So the streaming and the shirt sales would have helped keep those losses down BUT as a club Wrexham are naturally losing money.
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Post by daearegwr on May 3, 2024 10:49:50 GMT
What fair play rules? We had the largest ifollow streamcount in the EFL and sold 50k shirts last year. Fair play is nowhere near 'catching up' with us. Every club has to adhere to the FFP obviously. Not sure what the figure is for lower league sides. naturally the figures will be lower than Championship sides but for example Championship sides are only allowed to lose £39 million over 3 seasons. Currently Wrexham show £16 million losses for 2 seasons. So the streaming and the shirt sales would have helped keep those losses down BUT as a club Wrexham are naturally losing money. It's different in League One and Two and isn't linked to losses like it is in Premier League and Championship - summary here: www.efl.com/governance/financial-regulation/For League One "The SCMP requirement is whereby a Club’s Player-Related Expenditure shall not exceed the sum of 60% of the Club’s Relevant Turnover" So Wrexham can spend up to 60% of their turnover Turnover to June 2023 was circa £10.5million, but expect that will have increased again this season.
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Post by iot on May 3, 2024 10:53:00 GMT
Wrexham's income was almost as big as Swansea's 2022/23 income. Wrexham won't need to worry about profitability and sustainability regulations when they get to the Championship. The rules in Leagues one and two are different, but with their income they're not going to have problems. I expect Wrexham to get promoted again next season. The only thing that might hold them back is their limited brand of football. Having said that direct football didn't prevent Wycombe and Rotherham from getting promoted. Currently Wrexham turnover is half of Swansea. Roughly £10 million compared to £21 million so no where near each other at present. Swansea are on the brink of FFP and are needing to shed around 10 players in the close season. As a club Wrexham have “ lost” £16 million in past 2 seasons ( £5 million last season and £9 million this season) It doesn’t matter how big your turnover is,if your not making a profit eventually it will catch up with you at some point. For now enjoy the ride and see where it goes. Be great to have 3 teams playing in Championship. The £10 million you quote for Wrexham presumably is from the latest financial account, which actually relates back to their National League winning season - these things are always a year out. I understand their turnover has increased significantly this year, perhaps even doubled, which would take them close to Swansea's turnover in the 2022-23 season. That will also increase as they move up the leagues, so they're on course to surpass Swansea's turnover imo. I listened to a football finance expert talking on a Wrexham podcast, and he was saying they weren't remotely close to breaching the FFP rules. Think the losses were expected given the initial investment to take them out of non league and there will probably be further losses this year (although perhaps narrowing). But yeah, part of me does question the financial viability of some of the lofty ambitions when you think of the loss they made last year even with all of the attention on the club - that will grow and increase income further, but the costs will probably increase quicker. Also find it slightly questionable that the owners have placed the level of interest they have on their loan into the club - whilst it's not particularly high, other football owners have done it in different ways to avoid adding to their clubs' debts
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Post by garynysmon on May 3, 2024 12:57:51 GMT
I like that people are linking released Welsh players with Wrexham but until the club/Phil Parkinson shows some actual intent then its all theoretical isn't it?
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 3, 2024 13:07:53 GMT
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Wrexham
May 3, 2024 13:14:20 GMT
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Post by winsumluzsum on May 3, 2024 13:14:20 GMT
Swansea are not close to the Profitability and Sustainability limits of £39 million losses in 3 years. That's because of allowable deductions for the academy, women's team and infrastructure depreciation. For Swansea That's about £4 to £5 million that can be deducted annually, leaving plenty of headroom. Keiran Maguire, the academic expert on football, reckons that Swansea's situation is OK, even boring.
To compete in the Championship owners need to inject at least £10 million a year, usually more. Are Ryan and Rob ready for that? They certainly can't expect to make a profit in the Championship.
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Post by daearegwr on May 3, 2024 16:52:24 GMT
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Wrexham
May 3, 2024 20:57:41 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 3, 2024 20:57:41 GMT
Her Dad is supposedly retiring from Burton, so I'd say it's likely she's taking the reigns there. She hasn't really helped herself by hiding away so much. We're a very public job and CEO is a job where being in the spotlight is fairly common.
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