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Tom King
Sept 17, 2019 8:07:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by cadno on Sept 17, 2019 8:07:40 GMT
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Post by iot on Sept 17, 2019 9:46:52 GMT
A bit of a kick in the teeth for Owain Fon Williams, who's playing at a higher level and has shown fantastic commitment in the past? I'm sure I read that King is 24, so unlikely to even make championship standard if he's still playing in L2.
This epitomises the Giggs approach I suppose which is polar opposite to Coleman. Coleman annoyed fans because of his loyalty to players who had shown commitment and had blended with the squad creating a club-like atmosphere and ensuring players looked forward to meeting up. Giggs has a completely different strategy, which is to broaden the player base as much as possible. That's fair enough in itself, but the downside is you degrade that club-like feeling and the squad becomes far less settled. People joke about Coleman only selecting OFW for his guitar playing and Church because he's one of the boys, but is it really worth constantly drafting in mid-20s anglos who play at a fairly mediocre level instead of these guys when it might be unsettling the wider squad? At the worst, this might be contributing (even if just in the slightest) to the recent disjointed performances. Surely a better balance needs to be struck here?
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Post by georgetm1 on Sept 17, 2019 9:56:27 GMT
It seems to me that Giggs' plan for call ups is to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. As a result, he must be pissing off a lot of players, but then again is it any surprise off such a selfish person who lacks empathy?
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Post by cadno on Sept 17, 2019 10:02:17 GMT
Haha I didn't expect this to turn into an anti Giggs thread.
24 is still really young, especially for a goalkeeper. They can play into their late 30s!
Sometimes it pays off to take a step back in order to develop and move forward.
I have nothing against OFW, he's a good keeper, but I'm not sure if the SPL is that much higher than L2 standard.
I partly agree with your 2nd point regarding a 'club feel'. We haven't got a club atmosphere as much anymore, but in all fairness I think it has been neccessary to shake things up a little bit.
Any County fans able to let us know what they think about Tom King?
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Tom King
Sept 17, 2019 11:43:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by welshiron on Sept 17, 2019 11:43:20 GMT
No thank you.
I agree with Iot on this one
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Post by alarch on Sept 17, 2019 20:06:35 GMT
A league two player shouldn't be remotely near the squad. Even in our darkest days we've rarely stooped to that level.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Sept 18, 2019 10:04:53 GMT
A league two player shouldn't be remotely near the squad. Even in our darkest days we've rarely stooped to that level. Certainly not with the current squad of players we have at our disposal (goalkeepers accepted, as there's a bench warming problem atm, but League 2?). If Giggs can't get this lot playing then we've no hope with him in charge. |
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Post by dai on Sept 18, 2019 10:53:10 GMT
A league two player shouldn't be remotely near the squad. Even in our darkest days we've rarely stooped to that level. Wasn't Steve Evans playing in the LOW when called up by Toshack? And Craig Morgan at the same time, wasn't he playing fairly low down? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 18, 2019 11:21:45 GMT
I don't think we can afford to be too snobby about a 24 year old keeper who is playing regularly in the football league. What if he goes up a couple of levels over the next few years? He would certainly be in contention for a squad place.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Sept 18, 2019 11:33:16 GMT
A league two player shouldn't be remotely near the squad. Even in our darkest days we've rarely stooped to that level. Wasn't Steve Evans playing in the LOW when called up by Toshack? And Craig Morgan at the same time, wasn't he playing fairly low down? True, but old Tosh didn't have the playing resources we have now. There's also Gary Lloyd (Barry Tn) called up when that managerial genius Bobby Gould was in charge. You can go back through the years, Tony Millington et al.. playing for Wales when at lower division clubs. Some played very well e.g. Arfon Griffiths, from the old third division.
We've more choices currently attached to higher level clubs, and it's their own form/manager's preference if they get selected for them or not.
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Post by derynglas on Sept 18, 2019 12:19:34 GMT
To be fair the article only says that he's been watched,not that he's near the squad.
Where's the harm in that?
It is a problem position with our top 2 not playing regularly so it's worth keeping tabs on
qualified keepers and young players in league 1 and 2 and even Wpl level.
Giggs has been criticised for not seeing enough games,now criticised for having players watched!
In fact though Steve Evans wasn't called up till he joined Wrexham in league 2,Gary Lloyd
remains the only LOW/Wpl player called into a senior squad.
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Post by gimli on Sept 18, 2019 12:40:38 GMT
If we're desperate enough to call up a League 2 goalkeeper, surely it should be Owen Evans (playing regularly at Macclesfield on loan from Wigan) that gets called up ahead of this guy? He's two years younger, he's played for us at U19 and U21 level, and he's actually Welsh.
I'm not one to have a go at the 'Anglos', but Giggs is going a bit overboard with all these call-ups of random lower league English-born players. Especially when they're taking the place of committed Welsh-born players who are playing better (i.e. the Lee Evans/Will Vaulks situation, and until this recent double-header, Rodon/Lawrence). In fact, have any of the new call-ups under Giggs been Welsh born (except for Rodon, whom Giggs ignored for a long time but couldn't get away with doing any longer)? Add in the fact that he's unceremoniously kicked a number of our previous regulars to the curb and it's as if Giggs is deliberately trying to destroy all the team spirit and genuine national pride that was in the squad.
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Post by johnoster on Sept 18, 2019 13:15:05 GMT
Are you bothered about where Ampadu, Brooks, James, Woodburn, and Smith were born?
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Post by gimli on Sept 18, 2019 14:06:51 GMT
Are you bothered about where Ampadu, Brooks, James, Woodburn, and Smith were born? I don't want to completely derail the thread, so maybe this wasn't the best place to voice my concern. I'll try to be brief. And as I said above, I generally don't have a problem with 'Anglos' in the team. The lot you mentioned all came through the youth system and buy into the Welsh identity. And I don't mind one or two others coming in later in their careers (such as Chester or Ash) as long as they fully commit and genuinely add something to the squad and improve us. But I find the sheer number of average or below-average English-born players in their mid to late 20s that Giggs has added recently quite alarming. Especially since he's overlooking committed Welsh players who are performing equally or better. In the context of this thread, surely you agree that if one of the two eligible League 2 goalkeepers had to be called up, the younger, Welsh player that has represented us at youth level deserves it more than the older, journeyman from Plymouth who's likely just jumping on the bandwagon? |
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Post by texan on Sept 18, 2019 14:10:00 GMT
Are you bothered about where Ampadu, Brooks, James, Woodburn, and Smith were born? Their place of birth should certainly be irrelevant, but rather for me their provenance is what's important. Anglo players like Ampadu, James, Woodburn, Smith etc (Brooks I accept...not so much!) have all come through the Welsh dev system, they've known for years how we play, what's expected of them and the nature/feel of the Welsh setup. Its already familiar to them when they make that step up and, vitally, their styles are also already familiar to the established seniors. 90% of Giggs' Anglo call-ups however have never set foot in any Welsh camp anywhere along the pathway prior to their senior call-up. There's also an argument that they're not of the same quality as the kids we have coming through. Even with the familial feel of the senior setup in recent years, its perfectly feasible that the influx of so many 'outside' players (and ones of only average to good quality at that) could technically have a destabilising effect on squad harmony. |
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Post by johnoster on Sept 18, 2019 14:26:51 GMT
Are you bothered about where Ampadu, Brooks, James, Woodburn, and Smith were born? I don't want to completely derail the thread, so maybe this wasn't the best place to voice my concern. I'll try to be brief. And as I said above, I generally don't have a problem with 'Anglos' in the team. The lot you mentioned all came through the youth system and buy into the Welsh identity. And I don't mind one or two others coming in later in their careers (such as Chester or Ash) as long as they fully commit and genuinely add something to the squad and improve us. But I find the sheer number of average or below-average English-born players in their mid to late 20s that Giggs has added recently quite alarming. Especially since he's overlooking committed Welsh players who are performing equally or better. In the context of this thread, surely you agree that if one of the two eligible League 2 goalkeepers had to be called up, the younger, Welsh player that has represented us at youth level deserves it more than the older, journeyman from Plymouth who's likely just jumping on the bandwagon?
I'm only playing devils advocate tbf for the sake of debate.
But how do you know which player is more committed?
Tom King is hardly a journeyman at 24, and you have no proof that he's actually just jumping on a bandwagon.
I would pick Evans over King at the moment, but if Newport were promoted and Evans stayed at League Two level - it would be King.
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Post by alarch on Sept 18, 2019 16:10:58 GMT
If you had to choose a League Two goalkeeper then David Cornell of Northampton (28 years old) would also come into the reckoning. Tracking the progress all Welsh qualified players is a good thing, calling them up to the squad is an entirely different matter. I would love to think that we've got an extensive dossier on each and every Welsh player at every level of the professional game. But seeing that Giggs wasn't even aware that Rodon and Mepham had played together at U23 level on numerous occasions I suspect any such research would go to waste.
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Post by insertname on Sept 18, 2019 16:24:32 GMT
A bit of a kick in the teeth for Owain Fon Williams, who's playing at a higher level and has shown fantastic commitment in the past? I'm sure I read that King is 24, so unlikely to even make championship standard if he's still playing in L2. This epitomises the Giggs approach I suppose which is polar opposite to Coleman. Coleman annoyed fans because of his loyalty to players who had shown commitment and had blended with the squad creating a club-like atmosphere and ensuring players looked forward to meeting up. Giggs has a completely different strategy, which is to broaden the player base as much as possible. That's fair enough in itself, but the downside is you degrade that club-like feeling and the squad becomes far less settled. People joke about Coleman only selecting OFW for his guitar playing and Church because he's one of the boys, but is it really worth constantly drafting in mid-20s anglos who play at a fairly mediocre level instead of these guys when it might be unsettling the wider squad? At the worst, this might be contributing (even if just in the slightest) to the recent disjointed performances. Surely a better balance needs to be struck here? That sounds a bit all or nothing though when it should be more of a surgical approach. Would anyone deny that at that time it made sense to see how a league one player who was scoring regularly would do in a Wales shirt where his competition had struggled to score in the league above and become somewhat of a journey man? This is quite a different scenario. We have 2 prem quality keepers, albeit both not playing and we are thinking of calling up a player 3 tiers below because he *is* playing purely to be 3rd choice? (Even Giggs can't be mad enough to think of throwing him in the first team). It seems a waste of time to be looking at 3rd keeper options, basically. |
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Post by gimli on Sept 18, 2019 16:27:50 GMT
I don't want to completely derail the thread, so maybe this wasn't the best place to voice my concern. I'll try to be brief. And as I said above, I generally don't have a problem with 'Anglos' in the team. The lot you mentioned all came through the youth system and buy into the Welsh identity. And I don't mind one or two others coming in later in their careers (such as Chester or Ash) as long as they fully commit and genuinely add something to the squad and improve us. But I find the sheer number of average or below-average English-born players in their mid to late 20s that Giggs has added recently quite alarming. Especially since he's overlooking committed Welsh players who are performing equally or better. In the context of this thread, surely you agree that if one of the two eligible League 2 goalkeepers had to be called up, the younger, Welsh player that has represented us at youth level deserves it more than the older, journeyman from Plymouth who's likely just jumping on the bandwagon?
I'm only playing devils advocate tbf for the sake of debate.
But how do you know which player is more committed?
Tom King is hardly a journeyman at 24, and you have no proof that he's actually just jumping on a bandwagon.
I would pick Evans over King at the moment, but if Newport were promoted and Evans stayed at League Two level - it would be King.
Fair enough. I'd probably be more lenient if he was calling up quality players to be fair, but it just seems unnecessary to be calling up older players from lower down the leagues who haven't really shown any sort of affinity to Wales before. I don't think they improve on the players we already have available. I get what Giggs is doing, and I'm not against the idea of broadening the pool of players available, I'm just against replacing our established players or the younger players who have shown commitment in the past with random below average players that have come from nowhere. It just seems like Giggs is calling up players for the sake of it at the moment. |
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Tom King
Sept 18, 2019 16:47:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 18, 2019 16:47:43 GMT
I'm only playing devils advocate tbf for the sake of debate.
But how do you know which player is more committed?
Tom King is hardly a journeyman at 24, and you have no proof that he's actually just jumping on a bandwagon.
I would pick Evans over King at the moment, but if Newport were promoted and Evans stayed at League Two level - it would be King.
Fair enough. I'd probably be more lenient if he was calling up quality players to be fair, but it just seems unnecessary to be calling up older players from lower down the leagues who haven't really shown any sort of affinity to Wales before. I don't think they improve on the players we already have available. I get what Giggs is doing, and I'm not against the idea of broadening the pool of players available, I'm just against replacing our established players or the younger players who have shown commitment in the past with random below average players that have come from nowhere. It just seems like Giggs is calling up players for the sake of it at the moment. Who has been called up for the sake of it? |
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Post by gimli on Sept 18, 2019 21:38:24 GMT
Fair enough. I'd probably be more lenient if he was calling up quality players to be fair, but it just seems unnecessary to be calling up older players from lower down the leagues who haven't really shown any sort of affinity to Wales before. I don't think they improve on the players we already have available. I get what Giggs is doing, and I'm not against the idea of broadening the pool of players available, I'm just against replacing our established players or the younger players who have shown commitment in the past with random below average players that have come from nowhere. It just seems like Giggs is calling up players for the sake of it at the moment. Who has been called up for the sake of it? Vaulks, Moore, that random left back from Barnsley, etc. |
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Tom King
Sept 19, 2019 18:53:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by cadno on Sept 19, 2019 18:53:50 GMT
I don't think we can afford to be too snobby about a 24 year old keeper who is playing regularly in the football league. What if he goes up a couple of levels over the next few years? He would certainly be in contention for a squad place. agree. |
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Post by richierich333 on Sept 20, 2019 7:01:23 GMT
Who has been called up for the sake of it? Vaulks, Moore, that random left back from Barnsley, etc. Vaulks was at least worth a look in a friendly.
Moore was called up because we 100% need a 9 to hold up the ball in the opposition half.
Ben Williams is still young. Hardly an 'older' lower league player.
I think you're being a bit harsh particularly on young Ben.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 7, 2019 20:17:49 GMT
Been added to the squad
Guessing one of Davies, Ward and Hennessey have a knock?
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Tom King
Nov 7, 2019 23:11:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 7, 2019 23:11:55 GMT
Guess you have zero chance of making the squad if you play in Scotland then.
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Tom King
Nov 8, 2019 8:01:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by CrackityJones on Nov 8, 2019 8:01:02 GMT
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Post by insertname on Nov 8, 2019 8:10:24 GMT
That sounds like a piss take. If he genuinely thinks being 5-0 up against Panama means England will win the world cup I'm not so bothered about the England sentiments and more concerned for his general sanity. |
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Tom King
Nov 8, 2019 8:11:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by sleepy on Nov 8, 2019 8:11:32 GMT
Well he is English. And anyway, I think he's deleted that tweet now.
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Tom King
Nov 8, 2019 8:15:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2019 8:15:45 GMT
Good luck to him, any County fans on here able to give us a bit of insight?
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Post by mx47 on Nov 8, 2019 8:57:20 GMT
Good luck to him, any County fans on here able to give us a bit of insight? When we lost Day to Cardiff I think many thought we would find it difficult to replace him. Tom has come in and not really put a foot wrong...commanding, good shot stopper and distributes the ball reasonably well too!! Big step up to international football of course...but a great experience for him to be in the squad!!! |
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