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Post by insertname on Apr 8, 2022 13:18:51 GMT
If it affects the fans it affects the team by proxy. Look at how disadvantaged we were by Covid in the Euros, Netherlands not letting away fans in. We’ll be playing away games again at the WC if we qualify because the majority of the tickets will have been bought and accommodation sold. Most significantly for the England and Iran game which will be like a home game for both of them. I don’t think we would be taking big numbers for obvious reasons but these delays will result in a pocket of Wales fans being a handful of Wales fans in actuality. Also, it is in no way fair that one side qualifies long after all the others have, less than 2 months before the start of the tournament, just because. The only reason (as I understand it) that there are still other play offs in June is because of Covid. Also imagine telling Southgate and the English FA that they only have 2 months to sort out logistics. Southgate suggested that their logistical planning was significant and was based around the group draw. We might be doing similar but what a waste of money for grass roots football if we don’t qualify and we’ve spent time and money planning for an event in an alien culture that we didn’t even qualify for. It’s pretty poor treatment really but it doesn’t matter because we could be having our houses blown up so it’s okay really I'm not sure about that. It's a right pain in the arse I agree, but still not sure it will actually impact our players that much. It didn't do Denmark any harm in 1992, I know the tournament was next door in Sweden. Exactly there is a clear geographical difference there in that respect. Also Denmark were not qualifying on their own merit, they got a free pass because of conflict in Yugoslavia (iirc). Completely different propositions. I daresay if the tournament was in England we wouldn’t be too disadvantaged. But it’s not. It’s in a country that is fairly alien culture wise and where our fans can’t just nip a few hundred miles over to Malmö and buy tickets off a tout. Our fans will be both priced out and locked out and imo we’ve seen how that can go against you in the Euros when no away fans are present. We’re going to be left in the same situation for not one but two of our potential three games. In terms of war it’s small fry to complain about but in terms of sporting integrity it would be very poor for all 32 teams not to have qualified by end of June |
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Post by llan123 on Apr 8, 2022 14:01:43 GMT
But it’s ok for our Sep NL games to be rescheduled? Which impacts the integrity of the group. Key with 4 teams. September isn’t happening. Can I ask how or who you are expecting to give Ukraine the ultimatum that they must agree to plat the game by date x, or else they are kicked out? I just can't see how this conversation goes and who will handle the PR nightmare that this could turn into. UEFA/FIFA. As a governing body they make difficult decisions every day, they have to make difficult decisions such as this otherwise we are in a state of paralysis. Someone is going to need to make a tough decision here, be it Ukraine or FIFA. It's not a PR nightmare, they were given until June to fulfil the fixtures required back in March. There's been little to no improvement in the war situation since then and I can't see it improving before September to any meaningful degree. It's not fair on us as fans for this to rumble on. I think this will be delayed until September now personally, the Ukrainians will propose a fixed date and they will then arrange friendlies with their squad through the summer to get into match practice given most of them are playing for Ukrainian clubs playing outside the international window is not a problem. Totally unfair on us but that's what will happen now. Also, I see have seen comments on here suggesting FIFA wouldn't be doing this to an England or Italy etc, I agree, because their FAs would be demanding this is resolved ASAP. The FAW need to be doing the same, I don't care how it looks. |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 8, 2022 14:17:16 GMT
If it affects the fans it affects the team by proxy. Look at how disadvantaged we were by Covid in the Euros, Netherlands not letting away fans in. We’ll be playing away games again at the WC if we qualify because the majority of the tickets will have been bought and accommodation sold. Most significantly for the England and Iran game which will be like a home game for both of them. I don’t think we would be taking big numbers for obvious reasons but these delays will result in a pocket of Wales fans being a handful of Wales fans in actuality. Also, it is in no way fair that one side qualifies long after all the others have, less than 2 months before the start of the tournament, just because. The only reason (as I understand it) that there are still other play offs in June is because of Covid. Also imagine telling Southgate and the English FA that they only have 2 months to sort out logistics. Southgate suggested that their logistical planning was significant and was based around the group draw. We might be doing similar but what a waste of money for grass roots football if we don’t qualify and we’ve spent time and money planning for an event in an alien culture that we didn’t even qualify for. It’s pretty poor treatment really but it doesn’t matter because we could be having our houses blown up so it’s okay really I'm not sure about that. It's a right pain in the arse I agree, but still not sure it will actually impact our players that much. It didn't do Denmark any harm in 1992, I know the tournament was next door in Sweden. It was an 8 team tournament. It was also 30 years ago. Things have moved on somewhat |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 8, 2022 14:23:48 GMT
But it’s ok for our Sep NL games to be rescheduled? Which impacts the integrity of the group. Key with 4 teams. September isn’t happening. Can I ask how or who you are expecting to give Ukraine the ultimatum that they must agree to plat the game by date x, or else they are kicked out? I just can't see how this conversation goes and who will handle the PR nightmare that this could turn into. well it seems if they dont play the NL in June, then they will be kicked out. Kicking them out of the WC at that point would be much more palatable as a process and be understood. The war will have been going on for 3 months in June. If they cant play in June, the chances of September are zero Id suggest. What would change? A lot of their former domestic player are now playing elsewhere having been granted transfers. This is very different to March when the war was new, could be settled, and the players werent playing. They will be booted out of NL anyway, so I cant see any PR nightmare of making them play WC in June or they're out, as they will have been booted from NL anyway. If they play NL in June but want the WC play offs in Sep, thats taking the piss by them |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 8, 2022 14:26:55 GMT
Can I ask how or who you are expecting to give Ukraine the ultimatum that they must agree to plat the game by date x, or else they are kicked out? I just can't see how this conversation goes and who will handle the PR nightmare that this could turn into. UEFA/FIFA. As a governing body they make difficult decisions every day, they have to make difficult decisions such as this otherwise we are in a state of paralysis. Someone is going to need to make a tough decision here, be it Ukraine or FIFA. It's not a PR nightmare, they were given until June to fulfil the fixtures required back in March. There's been little to no improvement in the war situation since then and I can't see it improving before September to any meaningful degree. It's not fair on us as fans for this to rumble on. I think this will be delayed until September now personally, the Ukrainians will propose a fixed date and they will then arrange friendlies with their squad through the summer to get into match practice given most of them are playing for Ukrainian clubs playing outside the international window is not a problem. Totally unfair on us but that's what will happen now. Also, I see have seen comments on here suggesting FIFA wouldn't be doing this to an England or Italy etc, I agree, because their FAs would be demanding this is resolved ASAP. The FAW need to be doing the same, I don't care how it looks. I suspect the talk of the final definitely being in June by the FAW was the FAW talking tough. Just because they're not making stuff public, doesnt mean to say they're not talking tough behind the scenes. And of Course, Armenia, Ireland, Poland, Netherlands & Belgium would have a view as well. The latter two will be kicking off big time about ticket sales being held up. |
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Post by idj68 on Apr 8, 2022 15:19:17 GMT
UEFA/FIFA. As a governing body they make difficult decisions every day, they have to make difficult decisions such as this otherwise we are in a state of paralysis. Someone is going to need to make a tough decision here, be it Ukraine or FIFA. It's not a PR nightmare, they were given until June to fulfil the fixtures required back in March. There's been little to no improvement in the war situation since then and I can't see it improving before September to any meaningful degree. It's not fair on us as fans for this to rumble on. I think this will be delayed until September now personally, the Ukrainians will propose a fixed date and they will then arrange friendlies with their squad through the summer to get into match practice given most of them are playing for Ukrainian clubs playing outside the international window is not a problem. Totally unfair on us but that's what will happen now. Also, I see have seen comments on here suggesting FIFA wouldn't be doing this to an England or Italy etc, I agree, because their FAs would be demanding this is resolved ASAP. The FAW need to be doing the same, I don't care how it looks. I suspect the talk of the final definitely being in June by the FAW was the FAW talking tough. Just because they're not making stuff public, doesnt mean to say they're not talking tough behind the scenes. And of Course, Armenia, Ireland, Poland, Netherlands & Belgium would have a view as well. The latter two will be kicking off big time about ticket sales being held up. Can’t see it being September! Teams want to sort out their facilities, their hotel and plan in general … not being able to sort any of that until 6 months after the actual draw isn’t a level playing field against any teams group opponents…so the FAW will definitely be pushing really hard for June ! |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 8, 2022 17:32:11 GMT
I suspect the talk of the final definitely being in June by the FAW was the FAW talking tough. Just because they're not making stuff public, doesnt mean to say they're not talking tough behind the scenes. And of Course, Armenia, Ireland, Poland, Netherlands & Belgium would have a view as well. The latter two will be kicking off big time about ticket sales being held up. Can’t see it being September! Teams want to sort out their facilities, their hotel and plan in general … not being able to sort any of that until 6 months after the actual draw isn’t a level playing field against any teams group opponents…so the FAW will definitely be pushing really hard for June ! It's not going to be September. If you read what the Ukrainian captain says it was 5 days ago, and reported widely then. So this isnt new. He also suggests that they could play in June, but wont be match fit. Well, no, but that isnt the same as not being able to play. No way is it being played in September. I suspect they'd need clubs permission to play an extra game then anyway. Which they wont get. It'll be June. Unless something really odd happens with the Nations League. Like we dont take part and the June games are friendlies, and we are exempt from relegation. Last week Id have not entertained this as a possibility but, clearly UEFA have a big problem here. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 8, 2022 17:41:45 GMT
Can’t see it being September! Teams want to sort out their facilities, their hotel and plan in general … not being able to sort any of that until 6 months after the actual draw isn’t a level playing field against any teams group opponents…so the FAW will definitely be pushing really hard for June ! It's not going to be September. If you read what the Ukrainian captain says it was 5 days ago, and reported widely then. So this isnt new. He also suggests that they could play in June, but wont be match fit. Well, no, but that isnt the same as not being able to play. No way is it being played in September. I suspect they'd need clubs permission to play an extra game then anyway. Which they wont get. It'll be June. Unless something really odd happens with the Nations League. Like we dont take part and the June games are friendlies, and we are exempt from relegation. Last week Id have not entertained this as a possibility but, clearly UEFA have a big problem here. Uefa have a problem either way, the issue for them is what is the bigger issue. Not many bigger issues than war…. |
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Post by manulike on Apr 8, 2022 18:37:08 GMT
Quite frankly, this is getting beyond tedious. Ukraine is not a special case. Of the other countries already in the actual World Cup: Saudi Arabia is at war in Yemen, with circa 31,000 casualties annually. Iran and Qatar are both heavily involved in sponsoring the war in Lebanon, Syria and Israel.
Cameroon major war v Boko Haram as well as a civil war with the English-speaking population.
Mexico is the 2nd largest country in the world in terms of casualties from their Drug Wars - circa 34.000 annually.
Other war zones that are still able to qualify are: China, Iraq and Lebanon
Where was the FAW's stance last year when playing two of our Euro matches in a country that just one year earlier have massacred 8000 Armenians and displaced over 100.000 others?
The United Kingdom and the United States have been shamelessly peddling weaponry and creating artificial conflict since the Elizabethan times... The first one!
Either we keep Sport and Politics apart - or we don't?
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Post by quetzal on Apr 8, 2022 18:55:02 GMT
Lets be patient and wait. We hold all the cards.
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Post by pclaude on Apr 9, 2022 10:31:24 GMT
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Post by eppingblue1 on Apr 9, 2022 11:32:43 GMT
If they go with that is there a chance they put the final at the end of the nations league games and leave those go through in their current schedule. That would be a real setback for us. A Final after 4 very difficult nations league fixtures. The other way round would be much better. |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 9, 2022 12:09:56 GMT
If they go with that is there a chance they put the final at the end of the nations league games and leave those go through in their current schedule. That would be a real setback for us. A Final after 4 very difficult nations league fixtures. The other way round would be much better. Possible, but I think that the Dutch not putting up tickets for sale for 6 June gives us a clue. I agree it would be horrendous. I think they’d like to play the final 3 or 4 June before the NL. It’d be somewhat amusing if the hold up was FAW and Cardiff City negotiating a fuck off payment to a circus. |
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Post by quetzal on Apr 9, 2022 13:04:02 GMT
Please tell me this circus 🎪 booking at Cardiff City
Stadium doesn’t mean that we’ll be playing the play off final at Millennium Stadium
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Post by manulike on Apr 9, 2022 14:16:12 GMT
If they go with that is there a chance they put the final at the end of the nations league games and leave those go through in their current schedule. That would be a real setback for us. A Final after 4 very difficult nations league fixtures. The other way round would be much better. Its not only our Rotterdam visit. Its also Scotland v Armenia that is due to take place on 4 June |
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Post by cymru58 on Apr 9, 2022 15:18:27 GMT
For what it is worth I have read the Tartan Army are thinking the June Scottish fixtures might be
Wed 1st June Ukraine (H) – WC playoff SF and NL group stage
Sat 4th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage
Tue 7th June Possible Wales (A) – WC Playoff final
Sat 11th June Ireland (A) - NL group stage
Tue 14th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage
With Wales v Netherlands on 31st May meaning no games moved to September or November
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Post by insertname on Apr 9, 2022 16:31:23 GMT
Quite frankly, this is getting beyond tedious. Ukraine is not a special case. Of the other countries already in the actual World Cup: Saudi Arabia is at war in Yemen, with circa 31,000 casualties annually. Iran and Qatar are both heavily involved in sponsoring the war in Lebanon, Syria and Israel.
Cameroon major war v Boko Haram as well as a civil war with the English-speaking population.
Mexico is the 2nd largest country in the world in terms of casualties from their Drug Wars - circa 34.000 annually.
Other war zones that are still able to qualify are: China, Iraq and Lebanon
Where was the FAW's stance last year when playing two of our Euro matches in a country that just one year earlier have massacred 8000 Armenians and displaced over 100.000 others?
The United Kingdom and the United States have been shamelessly peddling weaponry and creating artificial conflict since the Elizabethan times... The first one!
Either we keep Sport and Politics apart - or we don't?
The special military operation that the U.K. and US are helping Saudi Arabia to take part in in Yemen is completely different from the war taking place in Ukraine. It’s the difference between brown people and nice white women dying so the difference in moral outrage should be immediately obvious……… ……🤔😒 |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 9, 2022 18:54:53 GMT
For what it is worth I have read the Tartan Army are thinking the June Scottish fixtures might be Wed 1st June Ukraine (H) – WC playoff SF and NL group stage Sat 4th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage Tue 7th June Possible Wales (A) – WC Playoff final Sat 11th June Ireland (A) - NL group stage Tue 14th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage With Wales v Netherlands on 31st May meaning no games moved to September or November We’ve no ground on 31 May for definite. Neither stadium available. Also no way we are agreeing to play a game with possibly 7 or 8 players still playing on the 29 and 30th |
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Post by jbt95 on Apr 9, 2022 20:00:41 GMT
For what it is worth I have read the Tartan Army are thinking the June Scottish fixtures might be Wed 1st June Ukraine (H) – WC playoff SF and NL group stage Sat 4th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage Tue 7th June Possible Wales (A) – WC Playoff final Sat 11th June Ireland (A) - NL group stage Tue 14th June Armenia (A) - NL group stage With Wales v Netherlands on 31st May meaning no games moved to September or November We’ve no ground on 31 May for definite. Neither stadium available. Also no way we are agreeing to play a game with possibly 7 or 8 players still playing on the 29 and 30th I guess we could play the Dutch in Swansea if UEFA pushed the 31st May date on us and the CCS circus cannot be moved etc (ridiculous they have something there at that time anyway in my opinion), UEFA aren't going to care where it's played as long as its at an approved stadium. I still think it's unlikely we will play 2 games before the final. |
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Post by pclaude on Apr 9, 2022 21:03:43 GMT
We’ve no ground on 31 May for definite. Neither stadium available. Also no way we are agreeing to play a game with possibly 7 or 8 players still playing on the 29 and 30th I guess we could play the Dutch in Swansea if UEFA pushed the 31st May date on us and the CCS circus cannot be moved etc (ridiculous they have something there at that time anyway in my opinion), UEFA aren't going to care where it's played as long as its at an approved stadium. I still think it's unlikely we will play 2 games before the final. That suggestion anyway from the Scottish forum was pure speculation anyway |
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Post by cynonvalley on Apr 9, 2022 22:09:41 GMT
The international window starts on 2 June.
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Post by marsvolta on Apr 10, 2022 3:47:44 GMT
I guess we could play the Dutch in Swansea if UEFA pushed the 31st May date on us and the CCS circus cannot be moved etc (ridiculous they have something there at that time anyway in my opinion), UEFA aren't going to care where it's played as long as its at an approved stadium. I still think it's unlikely we will play 2 games before the final. That suggestion anyway from the Scottish forum was pure speculation anyway We’ve had at least 6 different dates for the final from Scottish supporters on forums and Twitter, they don’t know any more than us. Though one of them will turn out to be right and will claim that they were in the know. |
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Post by jbt95 on Apr 10, 2022 9:09:28 GMT
The international window starts on 2 June. Yet Italy v Argentina is on 1st June. |
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Post by marsvolta on Apr 11, 2022 10:30:18 GMT
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Post by superunknown on Apr 11, 2022 10:47:47 GMT
Wrexham better do the impossible and overhaul Stockport's 8 point gap then! |
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Post by bringbackelmo on Apr 11, 2022 11:54:21 GMT
Quite frankly, this is getting beyond tedious. Ukraine is not a special case. Of the other countries already in the actual World Cup: Saudi Arabia is at war in Yemen, with circa 31,000 casualties annually. Iran and Qatar are both heavily involved in sponsoring the war in Lebanon, Syria and Israel.
Cameroon major war v Boko Haram as well as a civil war with the English-speaking population.
Mexico is the 2nd largest country in the world in terms of casualties from their Drug Wars - circa 34.000 annually.
Other war zones that are still able to qualify are: China, Iraq and Lebanon
Where was the FAW's stance last year when playing two of our Euro matches in a country that just one year earlier have massacred 8000 Armenians and displaced over 100.000 others?
The United Kingdom and the United States have been shamelessly peddling weaponry and creating artificial conflict since the Elizabethan times... The first one!
Either we keep Sport and Politics apart - or we don't?
Come on man, this is obviously crap (apart from your point on the US and UK). None of those countries are facing an existential threat to their existence. Ironically, the one other comparable place would be Palestine which you haven't mentioned, curiously. |
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Post by welshrover on Apr 11, 2022 12:14:37 GMT
Quite frankly, this is getting beyond tedious. Ukraine is not a special case. Of the other countries already in the actual World Cup: Saudi Arabia is at war in Yemen, with circa 31,000 casualties annually. Iran and Qatar are both heavily involved in sponsoring the war in Lebanon, Syria and Israel.
Cameroon major war v Boko Haram as well as a civil war with the English-speaking population.
Mexico is the 2nd largest country in the world in terms of casualties from their Drug Wars - circa 34.000 annually.
Other war zones that are still able to qualify are: China, Iraq and Lebanon
Where was the FAW's stance last year when playing two of our Euro matches in a country that just one year earlier have massacred 8000 Armenians and displaced over 100.000 others?
The United Kingdom and the United States have been shamelessly peddling weaponry and creating artificial conflict since the Elizabethan times... The first one!
Either we keep Sport and Politics apart - or we don't?
Come on man, this is obviously crap (apart from your point on the US and UK). None of those countries are facing an existential threat to their existence. Ironically, the one other comparable place would be Palestine which you haven't mentioned, curiously. I'm still waiting for reparation from England for their invasion / colonisation / destruction of culture of Wales! |
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Post by aberbeeg on Apr 11, 2022 14:51:39 GMT
So if the Scottish media are right and the final is June 5th. What would that mean for our NL away game in Poland?
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Post by superunknown on Apr 11, 2022 14:54:34 GMT
So if the Scottish media are right and the final is June 5th. What would that mean for our NL away game in Poland? Most likely brought forward a couple of days to 1st June I think |
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Post by CrackityJones on Apr 11, 2022 14:57:32 GMT
It would also mean having to move the Netherlands home game on the 6th so makes little sense.
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