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Post by iot on Jun 8, 2022 21:55:22 GMT
Just back from the game. First half went mostly as expected with the Dutch dominating the ball, but us looking threatening on the counter. It was pretty even in terms of the chances created. We were much poorer in the second half, I don't think we created anything apart from the goal.
In terms of the players, Levitt obviously had a shocker, but let's not forget that his last 3 or 4 appearances for us have been very good, so it would be stupid to go back to writing him off again as a couple have done. It's the best caliber of opposition he's faced in his entire career by a mile, so it will have been a very good learning curve for him.
I thought Rodon was poor too. He likes to get very tight and dive in, which is great when he's dominant, but the better sides just play it around him and he ends up in no-man's land. He did it several times in the first half and on Sunday. He's also very poor on the ball, Mepham's much better on that front. I thought Mepham played alright. Wilson was bright too, and RND was great.
The thing that disappointed me at the end was how the players, and Bale in particular, got caught up in the emotion. The fans naively but understandably encouraged the team to push up after we scored to press for the winner. Bale reacted by encouraging a high press, to which De Jong just played through it and ran into acres of space, leading to the winner. We should have been far more composed after getting that equalizer - particularly Bale as the captain.
Glad to see the comment on how Ben Davies led the press shortly before our equalizer. He was doing it and we almost had them pinned in, but Matondo was just not on the same wavelength and allowed them to play out. Matondo, Johnson, and Bale are really poor at the high press, whereas Dan James is brilliant at it. That's why James is such a crucial player. For me, tonight just cemented why it's right that James is above Johnson at the moment. Johnson really needs to improve his all-round game if he wants to step up.
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Post by dai on Jun 8, 2022 21:55:52 GMT
What the hell.......injuries to both 1 + 2 keepers? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 8, 2022 21:57:21 GMT
We were poor tonight, but understandable after Sunday in many ways. Let's be honest though it was a 50-50 game - the Dutch weren't great either, they just played to kill the game. The real disappointment is no-one taking out De Jong for a yellow - that clinches us a draw which would have been a great result. A good learning experience though
Any talk that we'll never beat them is absolute nonsense though. Eventually we'll beat everyone, nothing is permanent in football and we're a country very much on the up!
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 8, 2022 21:58:21 GMT
I don't think Davies is up for it in goal. Their first goal came through some bodies but was a clean strike he could have read. Maybe a goalkeeper can correct me if wrong but I'd imagine if it's a deflection it's in anyway so you'd try to follow the strike. Nearly got lobbed too, did well to grasp it away but I don't think he should be getting caught under crosses. |
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Post by cynonvalley on Jun 8, 2022 22:00:11 GMT
Why didn't Wilson/Colwill take out de Jong??
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Post by CymruFach on Jun 8, 2022 22:03:10 GMT
Sadly when we equalised, we lost our heads and shape a bit and were looking to win it, rather than making sure we didn't lose it.
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Post by welrus on Jun 8, 2022 22:07:49 GMT
I think we got to be more clever. Last minute attack that lad needed to be bought down on the half way line. Take his legs, hands up, take the yellow and we see out a draw. No team would think twice doing it to us. Morrell was class fair play to him. Not sure he's in line for a start but he's definitely Joe Allen's understudy. Big chance for Johnson to move above James but was outshone by him, James stays ahead of him for the moment. Levitt wasn't the best but did OK against Poland. Far away from a proper match for us though. Good to see RND off the mark. Couldn’t agree more. Absolutely crying out to be brought down. We are a bit naive today in that respect. Noticeable how Netherlands broke up our play with niggly fouls first half when we were having good spells. |
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Post by insertname on Jun 8, 2022 22:09:01 GMT
I was only listening on the radio but they said that’s what Wilson was looking to do but he just wasn’t quick enough off the mark. I guess they called it wrong He took a few nibbles but if that was Wales on the ball they'd have wiped him out. It was a decent performance, the game was a bit flat which suited us better. Just a bit annoying that we've fielded 2 weakened teams and got 2 hard luck stories out of it. Ah I see, sounds like a lack of commitment then. I was going to watch the highlights online after the equaliser but a late defeat has made me think there might be better things to do with my time! At the end of the day though better than the classic Wales hard luck story of winning the two games of lesser importance and losing the play off final! Belgium coming back to win means it’s still in our hands if we beat Poland at home, provided everyone else does us a solid and beats Poland. Have to play a first XI against Belgium- could be a vital point waiting in that game |
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Post by insertname on Jun 8, 2022 22:13:25 GMT
What the hell.......injuries to both 1 + 2 keepers? Ward starting to look like he’s made of glass too- except I don’t know what his excuse is because he hardly bloody plays! I really hope Dan Barden can step up quickly, get some first team football and start to offer some stern competition. |
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 8, 2022 22:16:27 GMT
He took a few nibbles but if that was Wales on the ball they'd have wiped him out. It was a decent performance, the game was a bit flat which suited us better. Just a bit annoying that we've fielded 2 weakened teams and got 2 hard luck stories out of it. Ah I see, sounds like a lack of commitment then. I was going to watch the highlights online after the equaliser but a late defeat has made me think there might be better things to do with my time! At the end of the day though better than the classic Wales hard luck story of winning the two games of lesser importance and losing the play off final! Belgium coming back to win means it’s still in our hands if we beat Poland at home, provided everyone else does us a solid and beats Poland. Have to play a first XI against Belgium- could be a vital point waiting in that game I'd still watch it mate. On the whole it wasn't too bad, crying out for a bit of class from both teams but no one could really provide it. Being honest I wouldn't have been bothered if we got smashed 3-0. The playoff was the mission accomplished, at 1-0 I was happy, 2-1 its just a bit deflating as we had the point there to be taken. |
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Post by pendragon on Jun 8, 2022 22:18:03 GMT
Just back from the game. First half went mostly as expected with the Dutch dominating the ball, but us looking threatening on the counter. It was pretty even in terms of the chances created. We were much poorer in the second half, I don't think we created anything apart from the goal. In terms of the players, Levitt obviously had a shocker, but let's not forget that his last 3 or 4 appearances for us have been very good, so it would be stupid to go back to writing him off again as a couple have done. It's the best caliber of opposition he's faced in his entire career by a mile, so it will have been a very good learning curve for him. I thought Rodon was poor too. He likes to get very tight and dive in, which is great when he's dominant, but the better sides just play it around him and he ends up in no-man's land. He did it several times in the first half and on Sunday. He's also very poor on the ball, Mepham's much better on that front. I thought Mepham played alright. Wilson was bright too, and RND was great. The thing that disappointed me at the end was how the players, and Bale in particular, got caught up in the emotion. The fans naively but understandably encouraged the team to push up after we scored to press for the winner. Bale reacted by encouraging a high press, to which De Jong just played through it and ran into acres of space, leading to the winner. We should have been far more composed after getting that equalizer - particularly Bale as the captain. Glad to see the comment on how Ben Davies led the press shortly before our equalizer. He was doing it and we almost had them pinned in, but Matondo was just not on the same wavelength and allowed them to play out. Matondo, Johnson, and Bale are really poor at the high press, whereas Dan James is brilliant at it. That's why James is such a crucial player. For me, tonight just cemented why it's right that James is above Johnson at the moment. Johnson really needs to improve his all-round game if he wants to step up. The way I see it is, we were ok during the first half. We had a couple of relatively good chances and were putting them under pressure here and there. They upped their tempo early on in the second half and we gifted them a lot of possession. We didn't really respond and just went with the flow. Could see that first goal coming from a mile away. Then, we responded after their first goal. It was dicey until that equaliser, then we made another catastrophic blunder. It was as though we weren't expecting them to score again or something. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 8, 2022 22:20:42 GMT
He took a few nibbles but if that was Wales on the ball they'd have wiped him out. It was a decent performance, the game was a bit flat which suited us better. Just a bit annoying that we've fielded 2 weakened teams and got 2 hard luck stories out of it. Ah I see, sounds like a lack of commitment then. I was going to watch the highlights online after the equaliser but a late defeat has made me think there might be better things to do with my time! At the end of the day though better than the classic Wales hard luck story of winning the two games of lesser importance and losing the play off final! Belgium coming back to win means it’s still in our hands if we beat Poland at home, provided everyone else does us a solid and beats Poland. Have to play a first XI against Belgium- could be a vital point waiting in that game Worth catching RND's first goal - I, like many others in the stadium, thought he'd just nabbed us a point from nothing and that was a great moment. Just a shame it was totally deflated by a bit of naiveity. However, we need to learn against top opposition and tonight was a good lesson for the younger players. One lapse and top team punish you |
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 8, 2022 22:21:26 GMT
I think we got to be more clever. Last minute attack that lad needed to be bought down on the half way line. Take his legs, hands up, take the yellow and we see out a draw. No team would think twice doing it to us. Morrell was class fair play to him. Not sure he's in line for a start but he's definitely Joe Allen's understudy. Big chance for Johnson to move above James but was outshone by him, James stays ahead of him for the moment. Levitt wasn't the best but did OK against Poland. Far away from a proper match for us though. Good to see RND off the mark. Couldn’t agree more. Absolutely crying out to be brought down. We are a bit naive today in that respect. Noticeable how Netherlands broke up our play with niggly fouls first half when we were having good spells. I don't know why we don't do it more. Admittedly I was saying it a lot in the Ukraine match before we won the ball back fairly so I just look an idiot shouting it out loud, but that was clearly crying out for a tactical foul. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 8, 2022 22:22:59 GMT
Just back from the game. First half went mostly as expected with the Dutch dominating the ball, but us looking threatening on the counter. It was pretty even in terms of the chances created. We were much poorer in the second half, I don't think we created anything apart from the goal. In terms of the players, Levitt obviously had a shocker, but let's not forget that his last 3 or 4 appearances for us have been very good, so it would be stupid to go back to writing him off again as a couple have done. It's the best caliber of opposition he's faced in his entire career by a mile, so it will have been a very good learning curve for him. I thought Rodon was poor too. He likes to get very tight and dive in, which is great when he's dominant, but the better sides just play it around him and he ends up in no-man's land. He did it several times in the first half and on Sunday. He's also very poor on the ball, Mepham's much better on that front. I thought Mepham played alright. Wilson was bright too, and RND was great. The thing that disappointed me at the end was how the players, and Bale in particular, got caught up in the emotion. The fans naively but understandably encouraged the team to push up after we scored to press for the winner. Bale reacted by encouraging a high press, to which De Jong just played through it and ran into acres of space, leading to the winner. We should have been far more composed after getting that equalizer - particularly Bale as the captain. Glad to see the comment on how Ben Davies led the press shortly before our equalizer. He was doing it and we almost had them pinned in, but Matondo was just not on the same wavelength and allowed them to play out. Matondo, Johnson, and Bale are really poor at the high press, whereas Dan James is brilliant at it. That's why James is such a crucial player. For me, tonight just cemented why it's right that James is above Johnson at the moment. Johnson really needs to improve his all-round game if he wants to step up. The way I see it is, we were ok during the first half. We had a couple of relatively good chances and were putting them under pressure here and there. Thought we were going toe to toe with them on the whole. They upped their tempo early on in the second half and we gifted them a lot of possession. We didn't really respond and just went with the flow. Could see that first goal coming from a mile away. Then, we responded. It was dicey until that equaliser, then we made another catastrophic blunder. It was as if we weren't expecting them to score again at all. Before the Dutch scored I had literally just said to my friend "we're dropping way deeper this half & it's going to be dangerous to keep doing that". First half they were keeping the ball, but the ba was always in front of us & we were making them work to get near our box. Start of the 2nd we just dropped far too deep and let them knock it around on the edge of the box and we were punished for it |
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Post by jimexotic on Jun 8, 2022 22:42:19 GMT
The good thing is that we can learn and grow from this and I'd rather we do our learning in these kind of games than the hard way in qualifiers and tournaments. I'm still immensely proud of how far we've come, we gave a decent Netherlands side a good game tonight despite most of our players being hungover yesterday.
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Post by pendragon on Jun 8, 2022 22:43:52 GMT
Ah I see, sounds like a lack of commitment then. I was going to watch the highlights online after the equaliser but a late defeat has made me think there might be better things to do with my time! At the end of the day though better than the classic Wales hard luck story of winning the two games of lesser importance and losing the play off final! Belgium coming back to win means it’s still in our hands if we beat Poland at home, provided everyone else does us a solid and beats Poland. Have to play a first XI against Belgium- could be a vital point waiting in that game One lapse and top team punish you It was exactly what I meant when I mentioned on another thread that I was worried with Ukraine's pressing the other night, and what a more tactically gifted team could do to us. We are still quite tactically naive and the better teams know how to capitalise on that. |
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 8, 2022 23:25:02 GMT
Did anyone see that Dutch fan walk across to the 4 young Welsh fans and slap him? The victim of this assault looked about 15. She walked a long way over then walked off. His friend was yelling then security confronted the boys and did nothing to the fan despite the fact she came back over to shake hands and admitted what she’s done . Other way around they’d be in jail it disgusted me.
Saying that though when they got the winner there was lots of handshake offers and hugging from the Dutch fans and they were great fans I must say
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Post by twofootedtackle on Jun 8, 2022 23:36:00 GMT
Two very well organised sides, quickly getting men behind the ball. There was no space for either side to counter. Ultimately their superior quality showed, the two CBs surely have to be the best in the business.
We need to work out ways to break down teams who sit in a low block, particularly when we don’t have an out and out striker
Players
Rodon (many mistakes), Levitt (struggled in advanced role with no space ) Conor (shattered) and Matondo were poor. Him and DJ just don’t have end product, it’s DOF frustrating. Looking forward to Brooks returning.
RND and Mepham were impressive.
We’re crying out for an out and out number 8 and another option for Keiffer
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 9, 2022 0:02:40 GMT
Chuffed for RND anyway. In the future I could possibly see Neco moving into a more advanced role with RND taking up the role at left wing back. Literally went on one for ten minutes with my mates saying the same things. I’d like to see it v Belgium |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 9, 2022 0:16:49 GMT
The Netherlands are like a bear that gets angry when he’s prodded. In the late 90s we went 1-0 up against them & second half they just murdered us, likewise in that friendly a few years ago when we pegged them back twice, but they just went up the other end & scored again. Same tonight. I’ve seen us qualify for a major tournament for the first time & then I’ve seen us follow it up. Then last Sunday I saw us get to a World Cup. I honestly don’t think I’ll ever see us beat the Dutch. Yes we're now Played 9 Lost 9 against the Dutch. Pretty extraordinary stat. Surely the worst record we have against any national side. But no point fixating on that. The 90's game you reference was the Gould era, light years from where we're at now. Should we get through the groups stages at the WC there's every chance we face them again in the first knockout round. Completely different game with both of us at full strength. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 9, 2022 0:31:16 GMT
I don't think Davies is up for it in goal. Their first goal came through some bodies but was a clean strike he could have read. Maybe a goalkeeper can correct me if wrong but I'd imagine if it's a deflection it's in anyway so you'd try to follow the strike. Nearly got lobbed too, did well to grasp it away but I don't think he should be getting caught under crosses. Also didn't like how casual he was with that free kick the Dutch had just outside the box in the first half that went narrowly wide. Top class goalie doesn't take chances like that. |
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Post by welshfootball on Jun 9, 2022 0:49:46 GMT
RND was standout from the start and deserved his goal from the one good cross. If Dan James will risk a silly yellow card for back talk in the opening minutes of the playoff final then someone can risk it in added time to break up an attack. I would have liked to see Jonny Williams on for Levitt. At the very least I’d count on Jonny to press which would free up Ben Davies. Yes, he doesn’t need to do it but from what we saw against Ukraine if something needs done Ben is your man. I don’t mean to be overly harsh on them. It’s just frustrating to go from one point to zero in the blink of an eye but lesson learned.
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Post by njdragon on Jun 9, 2022 5:18:38 GMT
Anyone going to mention how totally ineffective Johnson was?
Was he playing out of position as he hardly challenged the ball? Matondo for me did more in that role when he came on but still no decent forward without Moore.
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Post by bringbackelmo on Jun 9, 2022 7:38:06 GMT
These last two games should definitely put to bed any James v Johnson debate. Johnson has a lot of promise but is a million miles off bringing what James does.
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Post by welshrover on Jun 9, 2022 7:39:27 GMT
Anyone going to mention how totally ineffective Johnson was? Was he playing out of position as he hardly challenged the ball? Matondo for me did more in that role when he came on but still no decent forward without Moore. I did in a previous post |
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rhod
steve evans
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Post by rhod on Jun 9, 2022 7:57:59 GMT
The last 5 minutes reminded me of the best and worst of the Coleman era.
The best, not being afraid to go for it against a superior technical team, pushing players forward and getting that vital goal.
The worst, getting caught up in the moment and not being street wise enough, which results in naively giving away a cheap goal.
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Post by njdragon on Jun 9, 2022 7:58:46 GMT
Anyone going to mention how totally ineffective Johnson was? Was he playing out of position as he hardly challenged the ball? Matondo for me did more in that role when he came on but still no decent forward without Moore. I did in a previous post Stand corrected I did re back after that!! |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 9, 2022 8:01:14 GMT
These last two games should definitely put to bed any James v Johnson debate. Johnson has a lot of promise but is a million miles off bringing what James does. True, people were talking about him playing instead of bale against Austria. I hope he comes on but has to Prove himself in a welsh shirt for me. James is well above him. Surprised when they brought bale and matondo on they didn’t move him out wide though. Maybe we would have see more but from Last night I thought he was the worst on the pitch. |
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Post by iot on Jun 9, 2022 8:10:50 GMT
Anyone going to mention how totally ineffective Johnson was? Was he playing out of position as he hardly challenged the ball? Matondo for me did more in that role when he came on but still no decent forward without Moore. He showed a lot of good touches and clever first time passes. He clearly has a lot of quality, but his work rate and energy is very poor. No he wasn't playing out of position, that's where he's played for Forest since Cooper's come in. He's had plenty of those types of performances for Forest too, but he's the type of player who only needs one chance and he'll put it away, or one opening to put in a deadly ball and he'll execute it perfectly. It's just that playing for Wales against the top sides, we often don't get those opportunities and so he offers very little. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 9, 2022 8:16:37 GMT
Anyone going to mention how totally ineffective Johnson was? Was he playing out of position as he hardly challenged the ball? Matondo for me did more in that role when he came on but still no decent forward without Moore. He showed a lot of good touches and clever first time passes. He clearly has a lot of quality, but his work rate and energy is very poor. No he wasn't playing out of position, that's where he's played for Forest since Cooper's come in. He's had plenty of those types of performances for Forest too, but he's the type of player who only needs one chance and he'll put it away, or one opening to put in a deadly ball and he'll execute it perfectly. It's just that playing for Wales against the top sides, we often don't get those opportunities and so he offers very little. couple of nice flicks you're right i thought he was more of a winger. Honestly last night i think roberts upfront would have offered more. Disappointed he never seemed to challenge the defenders. Thought he would be chomping at the bit considering only a few games to make a good impression for the world cup. To be fair he looked good sunday when came on |
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