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Post by jimexotic on Sept 23, 2022 11:37:49 GMT
Some may say it's the most important area of the pitch, get your central midfield right and everything else has a lot more of a chance of working. With this is in mind it's quite something that we've done as well as we have despite the consistency of this position being all over the place with injuries in recent years. Allen and Ramsey are injury prone and coming to the end, Wilson is currently injured and Ampadu is now almost certainly a defender. This leaves the likes of Morrell, Smith, Levitt and Johnny Williams as options, with Jordan James hopefully fast emerging as the player to take over in the middle of the park although it's very early days yet.
I'm quite concerned because deep down I don't think Morrell, Smith and Levitt are ever going to be good enough to be regulars for us if we're to maintain and improve on where we are now. Williams is a good bench option but at 28 years old he's in the fourth tier of English football for a reason. Are Wilson and James going to become the new two we turn to or two of three depending on how we play? Charlie Savage is, of course, one of the kids we are all pinning some hope on, I just worry that this position could see us unravel to a degree in the future if we're not careful. What are others thoughts on this?
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Post by dai on Sept 23, 2022 11:45:27 GMT
Morrell is the best of the bunch by a long shot. I disagree that Ampadu is certainly a defender, he can play in DM/CM wekk and he may become a permanent option there as we have a few defenders now.
Smith just hasn't kicked on like I thought he would, and Levitt, well I think I've made my opinion clear about him. Neither of those are long term options imo.
We have Ollie Cooper, Jordan James etc.
Where does Luke Harris play?
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 23, 2022 11:49:09 GMT
Morrell is the best of the bunch by a long shot. I disagree that Ampadu is certainly a defender, he can play in DM/CM wekk and he may become a permanent option there as we have a few defenders now. Smith just hasn't kicked on like I thought he would, and Levitt, well I think I've made my opinion clear about him. Neither of those are long term options imo. We have Ollie Cooper, Jordan James etc. Where does Luke Harris play? Yeah Ampadu can play there and has looked decent at times but I see him long term as a defender given where he plays most of the time now. I think Harris is an attacking midfielder but I could be wrong. It's just having someone solid in the middle of the park, we're really going to need that. |
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Post by rangers15 on Sept 23, 2022 12:04:43 GMT
its probably Morrell and Wilson for a few years after Allen calls it a day... with Ampadu fitting in there depending on opposition.
Hopefully one of Levitt/Smith can kick on and really challenge for a spot (I don't have a lot of confidence in either i'm sad to say). otherwise it's hoping Savage and James can develop into decent players.
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Post by talyfan on Sept 23, 2022 12:36:36 GMT
I think Morrell is fine could there be better options? Most definitely but for now he's cemented for me until otherwise.
I'd say after the world cup I would genuinely cast our net far and wide for central midfield players. The difference between the likes of Levitt and Smith compared to someone like Terry Taylor and MJ Williams isn't a difference in ability but opportunity.
They're all playing at a similar standard week in week out but the latter never given a chance. When really other than Smith and Levitt's reputation of playing for high profile academies when they were younger there isn't any reason to suggest why they are better?
No harm in my eyes calling up other options. It's a win win, if these players kick on take the opportunity great and we've got more depth. If they don't we know they're not ready but gives regular players a kick up the arse to know there place isn't secure.
Still wouldn't rule out older players like Lee Evans, Sheehan and Andy King they can still be useful for us. But can appreciate eye on the future etc.
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Post by cadno on Sept 23, 2022 13:52:55 GMT
I liked the look of Josh Sheehan, but he had a nasty injury not long ago- anyone know how he's doing now?
I can see Neco Williams doing a job there.
Lee Evans has apparently been playing well, worth giving him a run of games to see if he can adapt to intl football?
Shame Emyr Huws is so injury prone.
Andy King is 33, high fitness levels, part of a championship squad, prem and intl experiencr. I would trust him as a squad player for us to come on for 10/15 minutes and see a game out, just play alongside Allen, keep a solid shape, keep it simple etc.
I'd trust him ahead of Smith, Levitt, James right now for the WC at least, but accept it ain't happening.
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Post by iot on Sept 23, 2022 14:00:54 GMT
Agree that casting the net wider post World Cup is probably needed. With Ipswich and Portsmouth tied at the top of League 1, there's a very good chance that some, if not all, of Lee Evans, Tom Lowery, and Joe Morrell will be playing Championship football next season. Man U were said to have blocked Championship / League 1 approaches for a Charlie Savage loan this season, but I would expect that sort of move next season so he may come into play (depending on how well he does). Luke Harris has the most potential from the lot, performing the Aaron Ramsey role.
Disagree with some of the comments on Levitt. There's a difference between talent and putting in consistently good performances. Levitt has shown he has far more talent than the likes of Smith and Morrell. His range of passing and ability to play through the lines is far superior. He just hasn't been able to translate that into consistently effective performances. But if he does, he could be a really important first team player for us.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 23, 2022 14:12:45 GMT
Tom Lowery is someone I'm big on. Should definitely be looked at post-WC as a 6. I really like Morrell and I'm happy with him & Ampadu as options
But perhaps the answer lies in the structure. We have played with two 6s a lot of the time, but for me our best performances have been with one 6 and two 8s. Wilson has proven himself a very competent 8. Perhaps our hope should be using others such as Brooks/Woodburn in the 8 role, rather than shoe-horning in below par 6s alongside Morrell or Ampadu. I'm imagining something like this once the old guard move on...
Ward
Connor-Mepham-Rodon-Davies-Neco
Ampadu
Wilson-Brooks
Brennan-DJ
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Post by morg on Sept 23, 2022 14:56:49 GMT
Think Tyler Roberts has come up as a possible 8 in the past too. Always strikes me as very good technically. He's not a striker!
Bit of an issue that there aren't really any friendlies any more so at some point the likes of James, Savage and Harris need to be tried. Maybe as a three for the U21s would be a start!
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 23, 2022 15:03:56 GMT
I think Morrell is fine could there be better options? Most definitely but for now he's cemented for me until otherwise. I'd say after the world cup I would genuinely cast our net far and wide for central midfield players. The difference between the likes of Levitt and Smith compared to someone like Terry Taylor and MJ Williams isn't a difference in ability but opportunity. They're all playing at a similar standard week in week out but the latter never given a chance. When really other than Smith and Levitt's reputation of playing for high profile academies when they were younger there isn't any reason to suggest why they are better? No harm in my eyes calling up other options. It's a win win, if these players kick on take the opportunity great and we've got more depth. If they don't we know they're not ready but gives regular players a kick up the arse to know there place isn't secure. Still wouldn't rule out older players like Lee Evans, Sheehan and Andy King they can still be useful for us. But can appreciate eye on the future etc. Agree with most of this but donβt forget that Taylor and Williams were in Premiership academies when they were younger as well as Levitt and Smith. Taylor with Wolves and Williams with Liverpool |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 23, 2022 15:27:05 GMT
Colwill another potential contender for the role, particularly if he learns to use his size
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 23, 2022 17:22:43 GMT
Reading through these comments just reaffirms my feelings about this situation, two or three need to push on within the next year. Don't get me wrong, I like Morrell and I think he gives his all, he was brilliant in the qualifier at home Belgium, I just don't think he's ever going to get better than where he is now but I'd love him to prove me wrong. I say all this, Savage will probably emerge as a World beater and Wilson will become the player we always hoped he'd be.
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Post by welshwhite on Sept 23, 2022 18:12:36 GMT
I liked the look of Josh Sheehan, but he had a nasty injury not long ago- anyone know how he's doing now? Josh is coming back from his nasty ACL injury, played in the last 2 EFL trophy games, haven't seen him play but reports are that he's played well, but clearly not up to the level of fitness he was at before his injury. I think that will be his level this season, some cup games and substitute appearances. Not a bad thing, Evatt really rates him which is why he won't rush him back this season. The Bolton midfield is pretty strong atm, but I think he will be an integral part next season if he can get up to speed, Kieran Lee is 34 now and currently in that No. 8 role, so there's a place up for grabs. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 23, 2022 18:34:32 GMT
I liked the look of Josh Sheehan, but he had a nasty injury not long ago- anyone know how he's doing now? Josh is coming back from his nasty ACL injury, played in the last 2 EFL trophy games, haven't seen him play but reports are that he's played well, but clearly not up to the level of fitness he was at before his injury. I think that will be his level this season, some cup games and substitute appearances. Not a bad thing, Evatt really rates him which is why he won't rush him back this season. The Bolton midfield is pretty strong atm, but I think he will be an integral part next season if he can get up to speed, Kieran Lee is 34 now and currently in that No. 8 role, so there's a place up for grabs. Thanks, sounds promising. Hopefully he can come back strong and put some good performances together - maybe play a part in our Euro 2024 campaign. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 23, 2022 18:36:09 GMT
Tom Lowery is someone I'm big on. Should definitely be looked at post-WC as a 6. I really like Morrell and I'm happy with him & Ampadu as options But perhaps the answer lies in the structure. We have played with two 6s a lot of the time, but for me our best performances have been with one 6 and two 8s. Wilson has proven himself a very competent 8. Perhaps our hope should be using others such as Brooks/Woodburn in the 8 role, rather than shoe-horning in below par 6s alongside Morrell or Ampadu. I'm imagining something like this once the old guard move on... Ward Connor-Mepham-Rodon-Davies-Neco Ampadu Wilson-Brooks Brennan-DJ Yes great shout, forgot how good Wilson can be as a CM. If he keeps progressing I think he could be a special player in there. I suppose it's depth we're after, so hopefully over the next few years, the likes of Levitt, James, Savage etc develop into good pros. |
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 25, 2022 21:45:25 GMT
I think tonight was a cause for concern regarding this thread.
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Post by iot on Sept 25, 2022 21:58:40 GMT
I think tonight was a cause for concern regarding this thread. Disagree, we only had two in the middle again so the battle for possession was always going to be difficult. But I thought the two acquitted themselves very well |
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 25, 2022 22:01:27 GMT
I think they were tidy enough but we're going to need a little bit extra from central midfielders pretty soon, two just doing the basics well enough probably isn't going to cut it. It's fine if you have a prime Bale on the pitch but we don't quite have that anymore.
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Post by cadno on Sept 25, 2022 22:19:09 GMT
I was happy with the midfield 2, thought they did well. I would've kept Levitt on personally & brought Bale off for Joniesta or Colwill to come on as a number 10.
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 26, 2022 6:36:04 GMT
I think they were tidy enough but we're going to need a little bit extra from central midfielders pretty soon, two just doing the basics well enough probably isn't going to cut it. It's fine if you have a prime Bale on the pitch but we don't quite have that anymore. I don't know, they put a hell of a shift in. They're in there as a platform for us to build off and recycle the ball to the attackers. With Roberts, Johnson, Bale, James and Neco on the pitch we have enough there to cause problems. The problems more lie with no end product from James, Neco can lose composure and be slightly wild with his passing, Roberts struggling to beat his man. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 26, 2022 12:24:26 GMT
I think they were tidy enough but we're going to need a little bit extra from central midfielders pretty soon, two just doing the basics well enough probably isn't going to cut it. It's fine if you have a prime Bale on the pitch but we don't quite have that anymore. I don't know, they put a hell of a shift in. They're in there as a platform for us to build off and recycle the ball to the attackers. With Roberts, Johnson, Bale, James and Neco on the pitch we have enough there to cause problems. The problems more lie with no end product from James, Neco can lose composure and be slightly wild with his passing, Roberts struggling to beat his man. Agree with this. I do wonder whether teams have done their homework on Neco. They used to rush in on him and Neco would spin them and create from there. Last few games it feels like teams stand off him more and I think neco needs to adjust and take more people on pro-actively |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 11:51:32 GMT
I don't know, they put a hell of a shift in. They're in there as a platform for us to build off and recycle the ball to the attackers. With Roberts, Johnson, Bale, James and Neco on the pitch we have enough there to cause problems. The problems more lie with no end product from James, Neco can lose composure and be slightly wild with his passing, Roberts struggling to beat his man. Agree with this. I do wonder whether teams have done their homework on Neco. They used to rush in on him and Neco would spin them and create from there. Last few games it feels like teams stand off him more and I think neco needs to adjust and take more people on pro-actively Trouble is, he doesn't really have the pace to do that which is why I imagine he transitioned from a winger to a full back in his youth. Just shows why he wouldn't really work further upfield, despite some of the calls to do on here. He's a very skilful wing back, not a winger and very likely has no future in midfield either |
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 29, 2022 14:58:58 GMT
If we improve our passing and movement we can work around Roberts sometimes/often struggling to beat his man, there are ways around this and whoever is in the centre of the park is crucial. I really hope we have enough to get through Qatar and then a couple of kids step up. I've probably been a bit hasty with this thread but it's been a concern for me for a while because we can't afford to lose the momentum we've got.
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Post by rangers15 on Sept 30, 2022 8:16:20 GMT
I was speaking to a Burnley fan the other day - and he said that rather than running up and down the right all day, Roberts does a lot of filling in in midfield (inverted fullback maybe the term?).
Probably doesn't suit the system we play perhaps... but good to here he is adapting his game.
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Post by iot on Sept 30, 2022 9:56:53 GMT
I was speaking to a Burnley fan the other day - and he said that rather than running up and down the right all day, Roberts does a lot of filling in in midfield (inverted fullback maybe the term?). Probably doesn't suit the system we play perhaps... but good to here he is adapting his game. Yeah, I think it's something Pep mostly brought in. Started at Bayern with moving the likes of Lahm and Kimmich into the midfield. People thought he was playing them as midfielders, but they were more full backs coming into midfield when on the ball to dominate that area. He's still doing it now with Cancelo coming in a lot. Ukraine are great at doing it too when Zinchenko plays, as are Austria with Alaba. That's sort of what we did with Neco against France - not sure it was playing him as an out and out midfielder, think it was more as a full back drifting into midfield when on the ball. It worked brilliantly, and he fits the bill for that sort of role, so with Roberts also doing it at club level, i have no idea why we haven't been trying it more. Particularly if we go 523, pulling those two in could make up for the lack of numbers in the middle. We probably do need them to stay wide in the 532 though. |
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Post by rangers15 on Sept 30, 2022 11:50:58 GMT
yeah - it seems a lot of our chances come through the width of our wing backs. so playing them more inverted might not suit our system. but it is food for thought esp when we have overrun in the middle in a few games of late.
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 23, 2022 23:21:06 GMT
So I think it's a given now that Ampadu is going to be in midfield for us so it's just a case of who will be with him. Assuming we mainly play with three we'll no doubt have one more attacking player and disciplined one to join him. For me it's almost the end for Ramsey and Allen as starters.
Harry Wilson - Decent on the ball, creative and can make things happen, lacking in positional discipline
Joe Morrell - He's not bad to come on and keep things ticking over and play against Estonia types in qualifiers/NL
Matt Smith - Similar to Morrell in terms of usefulness, I'd prefer Morrell
Jonny Williams - Attacking midfielder, 28, fourth tier of English football but very handy for matches against lesser nations
Dylan Levitt - I hope he proves me wrong but I really don't know right now
Jordan James - At this point we have no idea
Rubin Colwill - Can he play in central midfield? Maybe further up, he looks handy, hopefully he'll push on
Oli Cooper - Another that will play further up but he's looking very good for Swansea
Eli King - Heard he's doing well for Crewe, time will tell if he can step up
Luke Harris - Again, at this point we have no idea other than he's been tipped for a bright future
Charlie Savage - Same as Harris although he looked handy pre-season for Man Utd
We need a young Welsh midfielder emerging every other year really, just for competition and to build for the future.
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Post by rushy on Nov 24, 2022 9:34:48 GMT
It's a key area for us and I think Ampadu is better suited to playing as a CM , he has the physical side and his workrate is excellent, if we can put someone more creative alongside him that would be the future, not sure who that is currently as they are just potential or average players.
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Post by talyfan on Nov 24, 2022 10:06:03 GMT
It's a key area for us and I think Ampadu is better suited to playing as a CM , he has the physical side and his workrate is excellent, if we can put someone more creative alongside him that would be the future, not sure who that is currently as they are just potential or average players. As I mentioned in another thread we ideally need another Joe Allen. Someone able to cover a lot of ground, positionally disciplined and can progress the ball from deep. Shouldn't be too difficult! |
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Post by morg on Nov 24, 2022 10:12:02 GMT
It's a key area for us and I think Ampadu is better suited to playing as a CM , he has the physical side and his workrate is excellent, if we can put someone more creative alongside him that would be the future, not sure who that is currently as they are just potential or average players. As I mentioned in another thread we ideally need another Joe Allen. Someone able to cover a lot of ground, positionally disciplined and can progress the ball from deep. Shouldn't be too difficult! As others have said, think Neco has the skillset for that potentially. Given how much forward talent we have, think the future could be a back 4 with more defensive minded full backs. Neco would be wasted in that role. Talking of spreading net wide how's Jordan Davies doing? Maybe.... Ward;Roberts,Mepham,Rodon,Davies; Ampadu, N Williams;Johnson,Brooks,James;Moore |
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