Central Midfield - The Future

[fiveattheback]

Feb 20, 2023 19:32:16 GMT cadno said:

I’m not sure, Owain Tudur Jones is a close mate of his, on his podcast he was saying Allen’s got plenty left in the tank and he believes he’s still got plenty to give wales with nobody of JA’s quality able to step in atm. Russel Martin said he can still play another 100 games for the Swans. I guess Joe Allen knows his body better than anyone and he needs the rest, and maybe he’s planning on retiring completely soon, so fair enough in a way and we have to respect that. But was it Joe Ledley that said he would never retire from intl duty and always make himself available if there was an injury crisis? I feel like it’s been a rash decision by Allen, it took Page by surprise, but there we go

I'd be surprised if he signs another contract at Swansea, I'm not sure if he has 100 Championship games in him

Ledley is who sprang to mind and I don't think the likes of Vokes etc ever retired from internationals did they?

[cadno]

I’m not sure either, but they were Russel martin’s words!

My guess is he’s tired of football and winding down slowly before fully retiring, maybe this summer 🤷‍♂️

True, I don’t recall Vokes, Chester, Taylor etc officially retiring from intl football. Joe is the only one in recent years I believe

[fiveattheback]

I think Chester may have or there was certainly something about limiting his games

[marsvolta]

Yeah, Chester did say something about managing his games but didn’t retire.

Maybe he said that he could play some games and Giggs decided that he couldn’t really select him on that basis. Maybe they agreed that he could come back in an injury crisis or something

[allezlesrouges]

Feb 20, 2023 19:21:32 GMT fiveattheback said:

You reckon he's got another 2 or 3 years left in him?  I saw on Twitter that his contract's up next summer, I can't see him going on past then

It is a little puzzling that he's retired from Wales completely though, especially with the potential for a major tournament in 18 months, I don't think many of the Euro 16 lot officially retired, just drifted out of the picture

A commitment to continuing with Wales is possibly a commitment until the end of the season in 2024, by which time Allen would be 34. After the injuries he's had recently I'll be surprised if he makes it beyond this season tbh, and if he does, he wouldn't be able to handle the demand of club matches & intl football

[cadno]

Hopefully he’s told Page if we have a few injuries he will still help out.

A mid 3 of Ramsey Ampadu Morrell is a good one, but beyond that were scraping the barrel a little bit.

[smudger1]

The midfield will be between Ramsey, Wilson, Morrell, Amps and

Certainly Cooper and Harris will get caps soon.

Joniesta good to have off the bench for the last 15 mins

Colwill is gong backwards at City and will be sold end of season

James and Savage need to play games and gain experience.

Levitt, Smith and King are useless

[cadno]

Watched the swans last night, Allen had a couple of good moments but overall like most of the side he had a poor game I thought … stoke were tactically superior on the night.

[talyfan]

Some young lads playing regularly so far this season at centre mid who might be out of people's radars

Scott Smith - Wigan Athletic

Oli Hammond - Cheltenham on loan from Nottingham Forest

[welshwhite]

Never heard of Scott Smith, but fair dos, seems to have come from nowhere.

Will have a good look Saturday, see what his game is about.

[talyfan]

Aug 15, 2023 23:28:40 GMT welshwhite said:

Never heard of Scott Smith, but fair dos, seems to have come from nowhere.

Will have a good look Saturday, see what his game is about.

He has a little bit to be honest with you. Support Wigan and going into the season very apprehensive that it would be a slog but Maloney has backed young lads from the academy and there's a lot of promise.

Don't think he'll ever anywhere near the Welsh set up given some options but you never know.

[surge]

As an outside bet, George Thomas (Coventry to Leicester to QPR and now Cambridge in League 1) has re-positioned himself as a CM this year.

He is 26 going on 27 mind and in a team where avoiding relegation fears of last year would be a success.

[jimexotic]

Aug 17, 2023 8:40:32 GMT surge said:

As an outside bet, George Thomas (Coventry to Leicester to QPR and now Cambridge in League 1) has re-positioned himself as a CM this year.

He is 26 going on 27 mind and in a team where avoiding relegation fears of last year would be a success.

Thinking about this as an option is pretty depressing.


We need a tight and organised unit now for everything to work with what we currently have. We haven't got any real match winning star quality to help us around having to start League One level players, central midfield has been worryingly over run for various reasons for a year or so now, it has to stop.

[fiveattheback]

I think Thomas' time has been and gone

[talyfan]

Vaulks and Morrell as a stop gap for now along with Ampadu as the mainstay. Two younger lads into the squad for September wouldn't be the worse thing in the world like Savage and Oli Hammond

[iot]

There's not much we can do at the moment. It's a big plus for us that Ampadu is playing week in week out as Leeds' main man in midfield. I think Morrell is the stop gap, so we just need to go with that partnership until one of the youngsters kick on.

[iot]

The main prospects to replace Morrell are:

- Charlie Savage, good to see him set for first team football but disappointing that he could do no better than L1. Hasn't played enough senior minutes yet to understand his level, but at 20 he has plenty of time to develop

- Jordan James, 50 plus league appearances now and had a good preseason by all accounts, but disappointingly continued with the cameo role in their first two league games. Also seems to have been pushed up field, as some type of inverted wide forward. I think he's more box to box than a holding mid, so probably won't be a direct replacement

- Terry Taylor, slightly older but at least showed a good spell in L1 last season so potentially could push to Championship level. Disappointing move to Charlton though and it hasn't started well - I think I read he's picked up another injury having only just recovered

- Eli King, like the look of him but disappointed to see his loan spell in L2 last season wasn't successful. Has another chance in the same league now to impress, but he seems to be a fair bit off the standard needed

- Japan Raymond, very well thought of at Palace but no senior football as of yet, so plenty to prove

- Charlie Crew, very good prospect but nothing more than that atm with no senior football behind him

Other notable midfielders are: Luke Harris (didn't list him as he's more attack minded, where we're doing OK), Lee Evans and Will Vaulks (back in the Championship but would be no more than alternative stop gaps and I don't they're the right profile - they certainly won't help to gain parity in midfield), and Tom Lowery, who doesn't seem to be kicking on at Portsmouth so unlikely to be an improvement.

We only need one or two of those players to go up a couple of gears for things to look OK again, but I can't see that happening this season.

[dai]

I would also add Ryan Howley from Coventry to that list. He played a few games last season but is now captain of Coventrys u21s. Think he’s played as DM but also as a right sided CB

[jimexotic]

I've given up on Lowery, never going to happen with him. I'm really concerned that midfield is going to become a problem position for the next 5 years and completely derail us, Ampadu can't do it all and as much as I love him he's not the type of player that can bring an average player up a few levels, nor should he have to be.

[dai]

Aug 18, 2023 13:08:03 GMT iot said:

The main prospects to replace Morrell are:

- Charlie Savage, good to see him set for first team football but disappointing that he could do no better than L1. Hasn't played enough senior minutes yet to understand his level, but at 20 he has plenty of time to develop

- Jordan James, 50 plus league appearances now and had a good preseason by all accounts, but disappointingly continued with the cameo role in their first two league games. Also seems to have been pushed up field, as some type of inverted wide forward. I think he's more box to box than a holding mid, so probably won't be a direct replacement

- Terry Taylor, slightly older but at least showed a good spell in L1 last season so potentially could push to Championship level. Disappointing move to Charlton though and it hasn't started well - I think I read he's picked up another injury having only just recovered

- Eli King, like the look of him but disappointed to see his loan spell in L2 last season wasn't successful. Has another chance in the same league now to impress, but he seems to be a fair bit off the standard needed

- Japan Raymond, very well thought of at Palace but no senior football as of yet, so plenty to prove

- Charlie Crew, very good prospect but nothing more than that atm with no senior football behind him

Other notable midfielders are: Luke Harris (didn't list him as he's more attack minded, where we're doing OK), Lee Evans and Will Vaulks (back in the Championship but would be no more than alternative stop gaps and I don't they're the right profile - they certainly won't help to gain parity in midfield), and Tom Lowery, who doesn't seem to be kicking on at Portsmouth so unlikely to be an improvement.

We only need one or two of those players to go up a couple of gears for things to look OK again, but I can't see that happening this season.

What about Levitt? Not on the windup, just interested as you didn't mention him?

[welshwhite]

Sheehan is class, with his injuries hopefully behind him, and with a manger now who believes in him to run the show, he just needs a good season and a promotion to the Championship. He's playing the CDM position vacated by MJ and maybe, who knows. 

[allezlesrouges]

Aug 18, 2023 19:59:08 GMT jimexotic said:

I've given up on Lowery, never going to happen with him. I'm really concerned that midfield is going to become a problem position for the next 5 years and completely derail us, Ampadu can't do it all and as much as I love him he's not the type of player that can bring an average player up a few levels, nor should he have to be.

Seems to have turned into one of these injury prone players despite having lots of games under his belt early in his career. Disappointing as I believe he could have been a decent stop gap in midfield for us if he was regular at Pompey but just can't seem to get a run of games under his belt

[allezlesrouges]

Disappointing to hear about Taylor's injury, I still think he will come good long term tho. Unfortunately we need players for the here and now, so based on the start of this season that's Savage and Sheehan. If both keep playing regularly in L1 then that really means they are candidates to start the next game imo

Morrell red card has opened up a spot alongside Ampadu that needs to be filled. Can't be Ramsey. Page needs to be brave and throw someone in there who is a regular starter at club level

[njdragon]

Aug 21, 2023 10:31:00 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Disappointing to hear about Taylor's injury, I still think he will come good long term tho. Unfortunately we need players for the here and now, so based on the start of this season that's Savage and Sheehan. If both keep playing regularly in L1 then that really means they are candidates to start the next game imo

Morrell red card has opened up a spot alongside Ampadu that needs to be filled. Can't be Ramsey. Page needs to be brave and throw someone in there who is a regular starter at club level

this is a massive problem for us right now we have a huge hole where allen left and we have no one who can do his job. Its so apparent when we play right now the midfield is over run. Ultimately we need a top end championship player or someone with real quality coming through? Oli Cooper maybe? Ive not seen him play but he's central midfield is he too attacking?

[iot]

Aug 18, 2023 20:04:52 GMT dai said:

Aug 18, 2023 13:08:03 GMT iot said:

The main prospects to replace Morrell are:

- Charlie Savage, good to see him set for first team football but disappointing that he could do no better than L1. Hasn't played enough senior minutes yet to understand his level, but at 20 he has plenty of time to develop

- Jordan James, 50 plus league appearances now and had a good preseason by all accounts, but disappointingly continued with the cameo role in their first two league games. Also seems to have been pushed up field, as some type of inverted wide forward. I think he's more box to box than a holding mid, so probably won't be a direct replacement

- Terry Taylor, slightly older but at least showed a good spell in L1 last season so potentially could push to Championship level. Disappointing move to Charlton though and it hasn't started well - I think I read he's picked up another injury having only just recovered

- Eli King, like the look of him but disappointed to see his loan spell in L2 last season wasn't successful. Has another chance in the same league now to impress, but he seems to be a fair bit off the standard needed

- Japan Raymond, very well thought of at Palace but no senior football as of yet, so plenty to prove

- Charlie Crew, very good prospect but nothing more than that atm with no senior football behind him

Other notable midfielders are: Luke Harris (didn't list him as he's more attack minded, where we're doing OK), Lee Evans and Will Vaulks (back in the Championship but would be no more than alternative stop gaps and I don't they're the right profile - they certainly won't help to gain parity in midfield), and Tom Lowery, who doesn't seem to be kicking on at Portsmouth so unlikely to be an improvement.

We only need one or two of those players to go up a couple of gears for things to look OK again, but I can't see that happening this season.

What about Levitt? Not on the windup, just interested as you didn't mention him?

I must admit I forgot about him. I think he's a highly talented player (I know you see it differently), but there's always the risk that he becomes one of those players that can't for whatever reason turn talent into effective, consistent performances. He had a disappointing season last year and hasn't started well at Hibs. I think he's also just picked up a nasty injury. I certainly haven't given up on him, but I'm definitely far less confident now that he'll be part of the answer going forward

[iot]

Aug 21, 2023 10:51:53 GMT njdragon said:

Aug 21, 2023 10:31:00 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Disappointing to hear about Taylor's injury, I still think he will come good long term tho. Unfortunately we need players for the here and now, so based on the start of this season that's Savage and Sheehan. If both keep playing regularly in L1 then that really means they are candidates to start the next game imo

Morrell red card has opened up a spot alongside Ampadu that needs to be filled. Can't be Ramsey. Page needs to be brave and throw someone in there who is a regular starter at club level

this is a massive problem for us right now we have a huge hole where allen left and we have no one who can do his job. Its so apparent when we play right now the midfield is over run. Ultimately we need a top end championship player or someone with real quality coming through? Oli Cooper maybe? Ive not seen him play but he's central midfield is he too attacking?

Cooper's a 10 / wide forward. I'm almost certain he's never played as a holding mid before, or even an '8'. He also hasn't been as good since that decent run of form at the midway point last season. The hype around him at that time was way overblown

[njdragon]

Aug 21, 2023 11:11:05 GMT iot said:

Aug 21, 2023 10:51:53 GMT njdragon said:

this is a massive problem for us right now we have a huge hole where allen left and we have no one who can do his job. Its so apparent when we play right now the midfield is over run. Ultimately we need a top end championship player or someone with real quality coming through? Oli Cooper maybe? Ive not seen him play but he's central midfield is he too attacking?

Cooper's a 10 / wide forward. I'm almost certain he's never played as a holding mid before, or even an '8'. He also hasn't been as good since that decent run of form at the midway point last season. The hype around him at that time was way overblown

ahh fair enough was just a quick google from me - this is a big problem for us right now.

I find it hard to imagine we have no one better than morrell right now but that seems to be the case.

[iot]

Aug 21, 2023 11:31:44 GMT njdragon said:

Aug 21, 2023 11:11:05 GMT iot said:

Cooper's a 10 / wide forward. I'm almost certain he's never played as a holding mid before, or even an '8'. He also hasn't been as good since that decent run of form at the midway point last season. The hype around him at that time was way overblown

ahh fair enough was just a quick google from me - this is a big problem for us right now.

I find it hard to imagine we have no one better than morrell right now but that seems to be the case.

Well, Morrell will be suspended for the next two games so a good opportunity to test that theory!

[vvm]

Whatever happened to Matt Smith, is he out of the picture now?

[njdragon]

Surely charlie savage? matt smith, levitt had their chance. give savage a go!